Required reading is big Robbins....Anyway around/anyway to supplement?

[apr27]

So, we have this course where our reading assignments are in Robbins. Normally, I'm not big on reading, but the class (Mechanisms of Disease) seems to demand that we HAVE to read Robbins in order to do well. We literally have days set aside throughout the week where we have to read the indicated reading assignment. For example, we have read chapter 1-3 today.

Has anyone had a course similar to this? If so, how did you approach it? Would supplementing with Goljan, Pathoma, or RR be a good idea? I don't know how those sources are typically used, but perhaps they're worth a look.


Thanks!

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[HotLunch96]

So, we have this course where our reading assignments are in Robbins. Normally, I'm not big on reading, but the class (Mechanisms of Disease) seems to demand that we HAVE to read Robbins in order to do well. We literally have days set aside throughout the week where we have to read the indicated reading assignment. For example, we have read chapter 1-3 today.

Has anyone had a course similar to this? If so, how did you approach it? Would supplementing with Goljan, Pathoma, or RR be a good idea? I don't know how those sources are typically used, but perhaps they're worth a look.


Thanks!

I can't believe they're making us do this.. I have literally never had to read full chapters of any textbook through undergrad and medical school until now and honestly don't think I can learn that way. Just because the course director had to learn about specific brain tumors by reading a textbook front to back in residency doesn't translate to a way we should be learning in the information age. The fallacy of appealing to tradition is strong with this one.

 

[abolt18]

It was 'required' for us at one point. Pathoma or Goljan have always been enough for me alongside firecracker. Good luck with your insane reading.

 

[DrEnderW]

Is the "assigned" reading also supplemented with class lectures/videos? If yes, I'd skip Robbins, and watch pathoma and then read Goljan RR once your somewhat familiar with the material if you want a text source.

 

[NurWollen]

So, we have this course where our reading assignments are in Robbins. Normally, I'm not big on reading, but the class (Mechanisms of Disease) seems to demand that we HAVE to read Robbins in order to do well. We literally have days set aside throughout the week where we have to read the indicated reading assignment. For example, we have read chapter 1-3 today.

Has anyone had a course similar to this? If so, how did you approach it? Would supplementing with Goljan, Pathoma, or RR be a good idea? I don't know how those sources are typically used, but perhaps they're worth a look.


Thanks!

That sounds like just about the worst way to learn pathology. Are they just blowing smoke or are they serious? Are they going to grade you on weather you read it or not? Are the test questions going to go after minutiae specifically mentioned only in Robbins?

Some faculty like to blow smoke... for some reason they like to go on and on and about how things like class attendence and textbook reading are the best and only way to learn, etc. Almost uniformly, reading the professors slides/lecture notes and using material like BRS and Pathoma are sufficient for the class and more effective for general knowledge that will help you do well on boards. I really hope for you sake your Path professors don't go out of the way to make that not the case.

 

[Wolverines83]

Baby Robbins.

 

[apr27]

I can't believe they're making us do this.. I have literally never had to read full chapters of any textbook through undergrad and medical school until now and honestly don't think I can learn that way. Just because the course director had to learn about specific brain tumors by reading a textbook front to back in residency doesn't translate to a way we should be learning in the information age. The fallacy of appealing to tradition is strong with this one.

I'm right there with you. Hitting those slides over and over again has been my bread and butter. I can't necessarily do that with this...Maybe it's wishful thinking, but there has to be away around this. I'll skim Robbins, but I refuse to spend

Baby Robbins.

Do you mind specifying what baby robbins is? There's like an intermediate robbins or something too. This is all brand new to me, but thank you so much for your input.

 

[HotLunch96]

I'm currently downloading Goljan RR... and already have access to Pathoma. Hopefully I can return this Robbins textbook.

 

[UTsksk]

Baby Robbins.

Great source, but not always enough info when the prof is asking in depth questions

 

[Wolverines83]

You're right, it doesn't have everything but I think its the most efficient resource. Gives you most of the info in a fraction of the time. Big Robbins obviously has it all but its just too thick. In the end it's a trade off...depth vs brevity. A good supplement is the Robbins question book... The red one. Those two combined worked great for me.

I was tested 100% directly from big robbins. Used only baby Robbins and and question book and did just fine.

 

[Wolverines83]

Just wanted to add.... I've heard great things about pathoma though I never used it. Plenty of my classmates did very well with it.

 

[Wolverines83]

I'm right there with you. Hitting those slides over and over again has been my bread and butter. I can't necessarily do that with this...Maybe it's wishful thinking, but there has to be away around this. I'll skim Robbins, but I refuse to spend

Do you mind specifying what baby robbins is? There's like an intermediate robbins or something too. This is all brand new to me, but thank you so much for your input.

It's the pocket companion to Robbins. Its a small softcover book.

 

[kenjixshadow]

I was wonder why everyone is making a fist over a textbook, so I went ahead to look at Big Robbin. HOLY S*** THIS IS THE MOST CONVOLUTED AND AND HUGE A** TEXTBOOK. WHO THE HELL READ THIS THING!

@DoctorofDelight I checked upon this, apparently there is a little update. Plus you should check out the erratas on the 2011 version.

 

[kenjixshadow]

What kind of update? And are there a lot of errors on the 2011 version?

According to reddit, he updated the erratas in 2011 (you can find this online) and he updated chapter 2.4 on Autoimmune diseases and the bajingo chapter was updated last year. That's all I know. Nothing major.

 

[AlteredScale]

@Awesome Sauceome , @SynapticDoctah , @mamit1001 - get excited! We get to read a reference text at the end of 1st year! yay!!!!

 

[hallowmann]

This thread is hilarious to me. We read Big Robbins practically twice in this last year.

I'd get the book, because it's nice to have, but if you can geta digital copy, that's better. If you really want to avoid using it, I'd read the Robbins pocket book, then skim through the real thing looking at pictures. Almost everything is in the pocket book, just heavily condensed.

Pathoma is a perfectly good resource as well. If you want to do some reading, you could always use the Basic Pathology book by the same people. It's essentially a slightly simplified and shortened version of the full book.

According to reddit, he updated the erratas in 2011 (you can find this online) and he updated chapter 2.4 on Autoimmune diseases and the bajingo chapter was updated last year. That's all I know. Nothing major.

The autoimmune update is substantial. There are 2 or 3 other small updates (there's literally a place where he says something is the exact opposite in the older version, but it's a minor thing).

Honestly, it's worth it to just buy the subscription. It's like $100, you get the book, etc. It's an invaluable resource in board prep (plus it's more legal).

EDIT: $100 for 1 year and $120 for 1.75 yrs. I got it in Feb last year and it'll be good until well after I need it.

 

[Eremba]

I got Robbins basic pathology...and the question book.
I do have BRS and was thinking about getting RR.
I, too, cannot find any logic to this "teaching."

 

[dozitgetchahi]

Keep in mind that Goljan RR is largely a section-by-section summary of Robbins with extra boards-relevant material thrown in. It was very useful when it came to studying for path class tests.

 

[Mad Jack]

We were supposed to read Robbins. I own a copy and I've touched it maybe 3 times. It's a great reference resource, but you're far better using other resources like Pathoma etc if you can figure out what the weekly objectives of the course are.

 

[midweststudent1]

How helpful is little robbins?

 

[ortnakas]

This thread is hilarious to me.

Me too!

How helpful is little robbins?

As a first-year in PBL, the Robbins path mini-book is maybe my second favorite thing, my first favorite thing being my cappuccino maker. In a close third place is the Guyton & Hall physio mini book.

@hallowmann: would you recommend the simplified path book, or whatever it's called? I have the mini book, the big book, and access to the question book already. That trio's gotten me through first year so far, but I don't know if I'll need something more/different for next year. I know my question's kind of specific to our school so feel free to PM me.

 

[hallowmann]

Me too!



As a first-year in PBL, the Robbins path mini-book is maybe my second favorite thing, my first favorite thing being my cappuccino maker. In a close third place is the Guyton & Hall physio mini book.

@hallowmann: would you recommend the simplified path book, or whatever it's called? I have the mini book, the big book, and access to the question book already. That trio's gotten me through first year so far, but I don't know if I'll need something more/different for next year. I know my question's kind of specific to our school so feel free to PM me.

People seem to vary on what they recommend. Some people suggest reading big Robbins through the fall, then switch to just the pocketbook and Pathoma in the spring, others just start using Pathoma from the fall. Others only read the Basic book. I tried all of them and saw no real grade change. Doing the pocketbook and Pathoma took significantly less time though, especially when you get used to doing Pathoma at double speed.

Honestly, it's really up to you. If you can live with the pocketbook & pathoma, you'll be fine. The basic book chapters are like 2/3 the length of the big book chapters, so it's not important right now, but when you have 400 pages of Robbins (plus 300 pages of other books) to read in <1 month, it makes a difference. The library has the basic book, so you could try it for one read and see how it feels.

 

[Decremaster]

puthoff? If so I can give some tips...

 

[HotLunch96]

puthoff? If so I can give some tips...

Yes. Please.

 

[Decremaster]

Yes. Please.

Ok so for Puthoff resources like Pathoma are NOT enough. I still would watch Pathoma through 2 times per course to familiarize myself with it and learn some of the concepts but it is not the key to success in his course. Quite frankly to do well you need to use Robbins - not baby Robbins. The nice thing is the reading assignment is usually under 100 pages for a couple weeks of class. Don't get behind! It's very tempting. Pay special attention to all of the references he makes to Robbins in his slides. If he references a table or figure in the text then KNOW IT. I would also re-watch his lectures so that I watched it 2 times total. It is helpful to watch Pathoma first because jumping right into Robbins can be daunting and not very efficient. After you have been introduced to the concepts from pathoma and/or lecture then it is a good time to go to Robbins. He doesn't do the work for you and it can be frustrating at times but I honestly learned a lot from him because he expects a lot from you and teaches you to be an independent learner which is what you will have to be after your first 2 years of med school. Looking at the big picture can help with the frustration. So to summarize. Pathoma twice. Watch lecture twice and make special note of things he explains verbally. Read Robbins once all the way through while highlighting and taking notes and then review those highlights and notes before the test. If you do this you will be successful. If you need Robbins 9e pm me. Good luck!

 

[Decremaster]

The reading assignment we have (chapters 1-5) is almost 200 pages...

And how exactly does he expect us to know every detail in Robbins?

Yeah I forgot the reading is heavier during the first PBD course because (at least for us) there were no other classes or labs. Reading for second year classes is usually a lot less pages. You don't need to know every detail. Focus especially on the figures/tables/pictures that he references in his powerpoint. You can read those sections he lectures on and add additional details to what he teaches. You could definitely get by only focusing on what he talks about or references specifically in his powerpoints. He will still pull some other details out of the text for the exam but it is usually only a few questions. It helps create more grade separation (stupid I know). Reading the text just enriches the material and makes the concepts even easier. If you can't read the text then at least look at all of the figures he references in the text. Ignoring the text altogether would be doing yourself a disservice.

 

[Eremba]

Are we getting lectures from him this year!? I thought it was just CIS sessions (are these his "lectures"?) and the reading assignments... If we are getting slides that makes me feel a bit better.

 

[HotLunch96]

Are we getting lectures from him this year!? I thought it was just CIS sessions (are these his "lectures"?) and the reading assignments... If we are getting slides that makes me feel a bit better.

Not until after the midterm. (Which we have 264 pages of reading for BTW)

 

[RoyalMule]

.

 

[SurgeDO]

i would buy robbins, and i would read it. i would reference it frequently when you get into systems. it is the gold standard, and it provides excellent explanations.

pathoma/goljan alone will not provide the foundation you need for understanding pathology. these are board review sources and class supplementation services. robbins will give you the solid foundation you need in your medical education. you will be happy that you involved it in your studies come board prep time.

 

[TopTomato]

This thread is hilarious to me. We read Big Robbins practically twice in this last year.

I'd get the book, because it's nice to have, but if you can geta digital copy, that's better. If you really want to avoid using it, I'd read the Robbins pocket book, then skim through the real thing looking at pictures. Almost everything is in the pocket book, just heavily condensed.

Pathoma is a perfectly good resource as well. If you want to do some reading, you could always use the Basic Pathology book by the same people. It's essentially a slightly simplified and shortened version of the full book.



The autoimmune update is substantial. There are 2 or 3 other small updates (there's literally a place where he says something is the exact opposite in the older version, but it's a minor thing).

Honestly, it's worth it to just buy the subscription. It's like $100, you get the book, etc. It's an invaluable resource in board prep (plus it's more legal).

EDIT: $100 for 1 year and $120 for 1.75 yrs. I got it in Feb last year and it'll be good until well after I need it.

Seriously, I bought big robbins and absolutely love it. I read big robbins, and supplement with pathoma and i'm solid.

 

[acapnial]

puthoff? If so I can give some tips...

Decremaster has motivated me to be helpful so I'll add to the PSA about putthoff.

-Everything in Robbins is fair game on his tests. If you catch yourself thinking 'He wouldn't ask about that...' you're probably making a mistake.

-Outside of forensic pathology, every answer will be in robbins somewhere in the assigned reading.

-Decremaster's strategy is very solid, but if you hate watching videos, I can offer an alternative. I watched the relevant pathoma once before each section and saw most of putthoff's lectures. I don't think I got to all of them (putthoff lectures) for either PBD class. I put the bulk of my focus on robbins. Decremaster's strategy is probably safer because then you'll get what he emphasizes, but he does ask stuff from robbins that will seem very out of the blue.

-Do not skip tables and do not skip the text that describes images.

-Actually, I just pulled out robbins and went to a random page and read "Pulmonary embolism has an incidence of 20-25 per 100,000 hospitalized patients". That sort of thing is one of the few things he actually won't ask. You need to know if diseases affect age groups, ethnicities, or geographic regions disproportionately but otherwise you can move right past epidemiology without consequence. If he googles his name, reads this, and puts an epidemiology question on the test just to prove me wrong then I'm sorry.

 

[HH Holmes]

What is everyone's feeling of Big Robbins vs. Medium Robbins (Basic)? Is Medium the better to read and save Big Robbins for reference as a PDF?

 

[FistLength]

I love reading robbins, and I personally wish schools relied more on text books. It tells a story that I understand compared to bullet point synopses on a disease process from a lecture.

Medium Robbins is what I read, but I don't know how to compare to Big Robbins other than its about 600 pages shorter.

 

[Pisiform]

Do the pocket book

 

[DocWinter]

Pathoma is great but is NOT enough. Very high yield, not enough info tho.

Do you not get ppt slides? I copy down those slides and watch pathoma, only using robbins I'd necessary. Everything you truly need should come from the professors slides, and pathoma should cement the big picture and high yield

 

[kderekb]

Just read the book and stop complaining.

 

[sunealoneal]

Man I love Big Robbins. Seriously a surprisingly readable text. I read it whenever I can. The important part about Robbins is to pick out what the professor is pulling from there and what you can get away with skimming. If a table or concept is mentioned, read everything about those and know them cold. Figure out what kind of material the professor likes. After a couple exams and after reading the book enough, you get a sort of feel of the kind of information you need to learn from the book.

What's going on in lecture? PowerPoints? Do you have access to video recordings?

I start with Pathoma to get the broad strokes and then I focus on lecture. Pathoma won't ever be enough for class. Rapid Review Pathology is a great class resource as well, but I usually don't get around to using it. If you drive a lot get your hands on Goljan's recordings.

 

[Awesome Sauceome]

So this thread brings up an important question that I have been meaning to ask. How in the world is one supposed to figure out which resources to use? Is there a general list that someone has like organized for various systems/topics?

Like I am almost wanting to step away from SDN until school is underway because I am feeling overwhelmed by resources. Everyone is tossing around names: BRS, Goljian, Pathoma, Robbins, First Aid, etc, and all of that is on top of what the school suggests (which I naturally take with a grain of salt haha). How did yall handle it and sift through all of the options?

I say all this just to figure out what the heck I am going to need for school and to manage my money out.

 

[JustPlainBill]

You must be in a class taught by Dr. Putthoff --- how do I know this --- I had him for the same class -- MOD 1 and 2 -- you'll get all kinds of fun stuff -- you can expect to cover Clinic Micro Made Ridiculously Simple in about a week -- key point there --know those freakin' charts at the back of the chapters -- I mean know them in every way including what agar you need to identify them.

So, for Putthoff and Robbins --- given his level of questioning and the fact that he is a past master of making 3rd order questions with 5 totally valid answers of which one is the "best" answer -- I recommend doing what he says to do -- read the chapter like a novel first, use the major headings as a topic outline and take notes of the salient points on your second reading, flesh those out on your third reading, ensure you've captured it all on your fourth reading and then study only from your notes daily until the exam. Pay attention to any figures, tables, charts and the subtending text -- it costs about $500 per figure/table/chart to put it in the text so it contains important information -- and yes, Putthoff will test you over this information.

As he puts it,"Thousands of medical students before you have done this. Being an adult is when you delay personal gratification for long term gain and you recognize that your rights are subservient to your responsibilities" -- or something like that.

Welcome to Hell --

BTW -- If you don't know strep/staph and all of it's flavors during Clinical Micro, Putthoff will own you.

Sorry, I have no further words of wisdom -- but you will know your path when it's done.....

All the workarounds will not be sufficient for his exams, by the way.

 

[JustPlainBill]

That's part of your education as a physician -- you need to learn how to quickly evaluate a resouce and determine which one gives you the information you need in a format you can absorb quickly. Don't listen to what everyone else says is "golden" or you'll get too many resources. Evaluate each one but don't burn valuable study time looking for the "right" resource. there are no shortcuts or magic bullets --

 

[Awesome Sauceome]

That's part of your education as a physician -- you need to learn how to quickly evaluate a resouce and determine which one gives you the information you need in a format you can absorb quickly. Don't listen to what everyone else says is "golden" or you'll get too many resources. Evaluate each one but don't burn valuable study time looking for the "right" resource. there are no shortcuts or magic bullets --

This is sort of where I feel right now. Plenty of great people wanting to help but feeling inundated with resources haha. I will have to read up a little more on what is best before tossing money that way.

 

[HH Holmes]

Watch the series "How to Study for _____ in Medical School" on YouTube. He has a pretty standard system for books, but you will most likely be using your lecture notes. Plus, videos and services like Pathoma, Sketchy, Goljan Audio are all passed around between students I am sure.

 

[ortnakas]

This is sort of where I feel right now. Plenty of great people wanting to help but feeling inundated with resources haha. I will have to read up a little more on what is best before tossing money that way.

SDN is great, but your best resource is probably the second-years at your school. They'll have the most insight as to what actually works with your curriculum. If I were you, I'd wait on buying supplemental books (except the green anatomy review book and the BRS anatomy book) until you get going and have a better idea of what you need.

 

[padfoot777]

to the OP, i would avoid Robbins altogether unless there's something you read in Rapid Review Path or saw in Pathoma that just blows your mind.... I did all the Pathoma videos and took really really detailed notes out of them, flew through the assoc rapid review path chapter, and then I annotated that into FA. I also listened to Dr. Goljian while I was driving throughout the year and I definitely recommend doing that , esp if you enjoy his sense of humor as much as I did

My class also had "required Robbins readings" also and I never had to open the book

 

[sunealoneal]

So this thread brings up an important question that I have been meaning to ask. How in the world is one supposed to figure out which resources to use? Is there a general list that someone has like organized for various systems/topics?

Like I am almost wanting to step away from SDN until school is underway because I am feeling overwhelmed by resources. Everyone is tossing around names: BRS, Goljian, Pathoma, Robbins, First Aid, etc, and all of that is on top of what the school suggests (which I naturally take with a grain of salt haha). How did yall handle it and sift through all of the options?

I say all this just to figure out what the heck I am going to need for school and to manage my money out.

This is sort of where I feel right now. Plenty of great people wanting to help but feeling inundated with resources haha. I will have to read up a little more on what is best before tossing money that way.

Speaking very generally, I tend to see which names pop up a bunch from students above me as well as on SDN. I then get my hands on them and take a look. I guarantee you if you ask around in your class you'll find them all that you can flip through. For Pathoma, I just took the plunge and I never looked back. Seriously without a doubt the BEST supplemental resource for pathology.

Just try a little bit of everything and see what style of learning fits for you. Each resource is different in terms of learning style. Pathoma is one of the few resources that seems universally loved, however. Rapid Review is a big outline like BRS, some people like just having bullets in front of them instead of prose, some don't.

Recognize that board review resources are going to be missing details you'll need to learn for the exam. This is why monitoring the information that your professor requires of you is crucial. Pathoma is great because it's extremely succinct, which is great for time management. Watching that first to get a feel for the material before getting into Big Robbins will make reading 100s of pages much quicker. Since your very specific situation seems to call for Big Robbins, I highly recommend the Pathoma followed by Big Robbins route.

 

[JustPlainBill]

go to your school library and check out the resources -- go study with those resources at hand and see if they are helpful. I personally hated the BRS series but our anatomy professor was from U of M and used the online videos and U of M anatomy dissection stuff (with some of the questions) when testing so that helped. Everyone finds what works for them -- had one colleague who passed everything quite well by reading the Merck Manual and PPTs.

Dr. Putthoff will give you the salient points that he wants you to know -- it'll be on one PPT and he wants that template for every disease -- make sure you know that and you'll pass -- he's really trying to prepare you for your career -- you'll need to assimilate high volumes of information quickly and retain the salient points -- if you're struggling, go talk with him -- he really tries to help students as much as possible.

 

[cabinbuilder]

Go to pathguy.com and download the GRIPE questions.

 

[chizledfrmstone]

Go to pathguy.com and download the GRIPE questions.

Interestingly enough Dr. Friedlander (pathguy.com) is teaching the first 1/2 of MOD.

 

[cabinbuilder]

Interestingly enough Dr. Friedlander (pathguy.com) is teaching the first 1/2 of MOD.

He most likely will give you the GRIPE questions to use. He put his own flavor into them.