Research importance for EM residency

[avgn]

Incoming MS1 here, apologize for being noob in advance. I'm really interested in EM based on my limited knowledge/exposure but it's something to start. My school requires research so I'm starting to look at possibilities. From previous threads that are kinda old it seems research isn't necessary at all for EM programs. I don't know what I want yet (academic/county/community), but what effect will EM related vs. non-EM related research have? Specifically I'm thinking of doing health services research regardless of field – utilization, cost, quality, disparities. EM-specific would concern RSARs, readmissions, cross-sectional regional differences analyses, maybe insurance coverage trends and standalone ED characteristics.

TL;DR: Do EM PDs/attendings give a **** (either positive or negative) if my research is EM related or not?

And yes, I know the best residency is In-N-Out so I should probably do fries research where possible but my institution doesn't offer any (those damn elitists)...hopefully I'll still have the privilege to meet PD McFattypants one day tho

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Angry Birds]

EM is not yet a specialty where significant research is expected. However, research will always make you a stronger candidate, all other things being the same. Research within EM is usually better, but any research at all will benefit you...

 

[Cinematographer]

The more competitive academic programs probably prefer applicants who have some research background. I interviewed at two places that were big on academic EM, and at least one interviewer at each of those places had questions about my research experience. You likely get bonus points if the research is EM-related. EM Research > Any Research >>> No Research.

My sincere condolences on your school's anti In-N-Out stance.

 

[Moose A Moose]

EM is not yet a specialty where significant research is expected. However, research will always make you a stronger candidate, all other things being the same. Research within EM is usually better, but any research at all will benefit you...

I second this.

 

[avgn]

The more competitive academic programs probably prefer applicants who have some research background. I interviewed at two places that were big on academic EM, and at least one interviewer at each of those places had questions about my research experience. You likely get bonus points if the research is EM-related. EM Research > Any Research >>> No Research.

My sincere condolences on your school's anti In-N-Out stance.

What's the standard for "some research" here? Like article pubs? Doubt I'll care for more academics during training but curious how involved it's worth to get before it impacts my grades..

 

[Cinematographer]

What's the standard for "some research" here? Like article pubs? Doubt I'll care for more academics during training but curious how involved it's worth to get before it impacts my grades..

A couple journal publications, and abstract/poster presentations at some regional and national med student conferences.

Btw, the ERAS user manual instructs you list any of the following activities under the Publications/Research section:

So there is flexibility as to what is considered research on your application file.

 

[Rekt]

A couple journal publications, and abstract/poster presentations at some regional and national med student conferences.

Btw, the ERAS user manual instructs you list any of the following activities under the Publications/Research section:

View attachment 202902

So there is flexibility as to what is considered research on your application file.

What do you think about "undergrad" (non-affiliated) research, two pending pubs, EM related?

 

[Angry Birds]

What do you think about "undergrad" (non-affiliated) research, two pending pubs, EM related?

Anything is better than nothing.

 

[Cinematographer]

What do you think about "undergrad" (non-affiliated) research, two pending pubs, EM related?

If I recall correctly, you can list research done prior to med school if (a) it led to publications,* (b) it overlapped with your attendance to med school, and/or (c) it's applicable to the medical field.

* And by publications I mean the definition cited in my previous post.

Edit: Pretty much what @Angry Birds has said; I just happen to post everything a minute after him. #ImTooSlow.

 

[Angry Birds]

Edit: Pretty much what @Angry Birds has said; I just happen to post everything a minute after him. #ImTooSlow.

No, it's the fact that I've become way too addicted to this forum in recent months.

 

[avgn]

Got it, sounds simple enough, thanks! Research is good but don't obsess about it like IM folks do. I think I'll stick to EM topics where possible because the questions are inherently more interesting to me and seem under researched

 

[wonderbread12]

Incoming MS1 here, apologize for being noob in advance. I'm really interested in EM based on my limited knowledge/exposure but it's something to start. My school requires research so I'm starting to look at possibilities. From previous threads that are kinda old it seems research isn't necessary at all for EM programs. I don't know what I want yet (academic/county/community), but what effect will EM related vs. non-EM related research have? Specifically I'm thinking of doing health services research regardless of field – utilization, cost, quality, disparities. EM-specific would concern RSARs, readmissions, cross-sectional regional differences analyses, maybe insurance coverage trends and standalone ED characteristics.

TL;DR: Do EM PDs/attendings give a **** (either positive or negative) if my research is EM related or not?

And yes, I know the best residency is In-N-Out so I should probably do fries research where possible but my institution doesn't offer any (those damn elitists)...hopefully I'll still have the privilege to meet PD McFattypants one day tho

I got asked about my research experience on practically every interview. Most programs have a research requirement as part of the residency though they may not advertise it. I would say to try to have 1-2 projects with 1-2 posters. Nothing needs to be published or whatever but if you can manage that (usually between M1-M2 summer) you will be more than set with your "research" experience.

Looking back, I now think the most important section is that small inconspicuous hobbies section. That's what will get conversations going so use that to show some personality but don't be too weird.

 

[medicsb]

Most EM programs seem to put little emphasis on research as a pre-req. Though I'm sure some programs for whatever reason want to see that you've done research. It won't hurt and could help you, but it depends on what you did. Anyhow, I got into med school and residency (my 1st choice, too) without ever having done research. So, doing nothing is certainly an option.

 

[Cinematographer]

Decided to get some objective info on this topic based on the NRMP Charting Outcomes file from 2014:

Chart EM-5: Of U.S. Senior medical students who matched into EM in 2014 (n=1,313), 87.7% listed at least one research project on their ERAS application. Mode= 2.​

Chart EM-6: Of U.S. Senior medical students who matched into EM in 2014, 69.6% listed at least one abstract, presentation, and/or publication. However, the mode in this case is zero, with 399 matched applicants having no abstract/publication/presentation on their ERAS application.​

Lastly, in the NRMP Program Director Survey of 2014, 43% of EM program directors (that responded to the survey) indicated that they consider research experience in selecting applicants to interview. Research experience was given an average rating of 3.1 in importance (on a 1-5 point scale, with 5 being "very important").

Keep in mind that this data is at least 2 years old, and feel like EM has gotten more competitive since then.

 

[gman33]

It won't hurt, but most places won't care

 

[avgn]

I got asked about my research experience on practically every interview. Most programs have a research requirement as part of the residency though they may not advertise it. I would say to try to have 1-2 projects with 1-2 posters. Nothing needs to be published or whatever but if you can manage that (usually between M1-M2 summer) you will be more than set with your "research" experience.

Looking back, I now think the most important section is that small inconspicuous hobbies section. That's what will get conversations going so use that to show some personality but don't be too weird.

Hm ok I play an uncommon sport competitively and will continue doing so in school so hopefully it's good lol

 

[avgn]

Decided to get some objective info on this topic based on the NRMP Charting Outcomes file from 2014:

Chart EM-5: Of U.S. Senior medical students who matched into EM in 2014 (n=1,313), 87.7% listed at least one research project on their ERAS application. Mode= 2.​

Chart EM-6: Of U.S. Senior medical students who matched into EM in 2014, 69.6% listed at least one abstract, presentation, and/or publication. However, the mode in this case is zero, with 399 matched applicants having no abstract/publication/presentation on their ERAS application.​

Lastly, in the NRMP Program Director Survey of 2014, 43% of EM program directors (that responded to the survey) indicated that they consider research experience in selecting applicants to interview. Research experience was given an average rating of 3.1 in importance (on a 1-5 point scale, with 5 being "very important").

Keep in mind that this data is at least 2 years old, and feel like EM has gotten more competitive since then.

Yeah I've seen that doc, thanks for the reminder. Some of the stats regarding certain specialties is quite discouraging lol.........

 

[gutonc]

Hm ok I play an uncommon sport competitively and will continue doing so in school so hopefully it's good lol

D&D is not considered a sport. Even by EM docs.

 

[avgn]

D&D is not considered a sport. Even by EM docs.

 

[doggydog]

D&D is not considered a sport. Even by EM docs.

What about Catan?

 

[gutonc]

What about Catan?

Only if you're also on the varsity CAH team.

 

[discongruent]

And here we bear witness to a specialty in ascent to becoming competitive.

It goes more/less like this:

sdn forums attendings->"my specialty makes 350K+/year" +"my residency is 3 years"+"lifestylte" -> med students scouring SDN-> I found my life's purpose!-> Threads titled "how competitive is XYZ?"-> 4000k views in one week-> no open residency spots x3 years in a row-> current thread " do I need research to get into?" -> radiology/pathology job market

No wonder EM was more competitive than anesthesia this year, and on par than most rads programs.

But let's keep a low profile; let them think sitting in a cave reading shadows or pushing propofol is a better way of living and they will for sure burn out, get fat, bald and divorced from EM shift work. Where is birdstrike?

 

[Cinematographer]

No wonder EM was more competitive than anesthesia this year, and on par than most rads programs.

On par with Radiology? I think EM has been more competitive than Radiology for a while. Hell, I don't even think of Radiology as a competitive specialty anymore.

 

[avgn]

@Birdstrike How do you feel about being bat-signalled

 

[DrYoda]

On par with Radiology? I think EM has been more competitive than Radiology for a while. Hell, I don't even think of Radiology as a competitive specialty anymore.

+1. talk to a radiologist there specialty's desirability has plummeted over the past 5 years or so.

 

[Tenk]

Unless you're doing research on something like a new pathology stain for oncology slides, pretty much any research is applicable to the ED.

Neonatal? Pediatric? IM? OB? Geriatric? We see it all! Find something YOU are interested in and you'll have no problem spinning it towards the ED.

There's nothing worse than doing research you don't care about because 1) it sucks and 2) when you talk about it your heart won't be there and it's very easy to see that. Good luck!

 

[EMNation]

Yes for Academic powerhouses (UCs/Ivy Leagues), no for typical county/community as a general rule of thumb (multiple exceptions exist).

 

[Cinematographer]

Unless you're doing research on something like a new pathology stain for oncology slides, pretty much any research is applicable to the ED.

Holy ****. That was quite literally one of my earlier research projects in med school. This is hilarious.

 

[Birdstrike]

@Birdstrike How do you feel about being bat-signalled

Uhh....I was? I dunno. Haven't been on here in forever. Fill me in.

 

[Birdstrike]

And here we bear witness to a specialty in ascent to becoming competitive.

It goes more/less like this:

sdn forums attendings->"my specialty makes 350K+/year" +"my residency is 3 years"+"lifestylte" -> med students scouring SDN-> I found my life's purpose!-> Threads titled "how competitive is XYZ?"-> 4000k views in one week-> no open residency spots x3 years in a row-> current thread " do I need research to get into?" -> radiology/pathology job market

No wonder EM was more competitive than anesthesia this year, and on par than most rads programs.

But let's keep a low profile; let them think sitting in a cave reading shadows or pushing propofol is a better way of living and they will for sure burn out, get fat, bald and divorced from EM shift work. Where is birdstrike?

Been busy post burnout, getting ripped, averting divorce & shaving the head so the baldness looks planned. Haven't been on here forever, lately. Am I famous on here, still?

 

[avgn]

Uhh....I was? I dunno. Haven't been on here in forever. Fill me in.

See post #22, two above the one you quoted. Someone signed up for a new account to post a comment and asked about you at the end (which makes me think it was a second account otherwise no way a new member would know you by name)

 

[Tenk]

Holy ****. That was quite literally one of my earlier research projects in med school. This is hilarious.

Nice! I worked in a path lab prior to med school so all those stains forever hold a special place in my heart.

 

[Birdstrike]

See post #22, two above the one you quoted. Someone signed up for a new account to post a comment and asked about you at the end (which makes me think it was a second account otherwise no way a new member would know you by name)

They didn't tag me so I didn't see it. But to answer the thread. Research is not that important for EM residency unless you want to become a researcher. And...EM will always be popular...


cuz it's sexy.