Research in ENT

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chuck84

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MD/PhD student here in my PhD years and I'm really starting to like ENT. I'm wondering if you guys are familiar with docs in this field that get some form of protected time for research (1-2 days a week) and are still successfully fulfilling al their clinical duties, while not turning into a crappy surgeon. Just trying to get an idea about how this field supports either clinical or basic science research.

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I was just talking to some ENT's about this, and out of the surgical specialities this is one of the better fits for having a decent amount of protected research time. Some ENT faculty I've met seem to have one clinic afternoon and one OR day and concentrate on a few procedures, but they have to be bringing in grant money. For example, to be eligible to apply to a K award, you need to have 75% protected research time. So that likely means the institution is only going to give you a relatively tiny guaranteed salary, because you are likely not producing many RVUs.

I wouldn't think about it necessarily as how much the field supports research, as all medical fields support research to some extent. It's about what you want to do. It's all about money.

It mainly comes down to what sort of contract you negotiate with your institution. If you are willing to put your salary at risk and rely on grants, then that's up to you. However, it's often more about individuals who get through residency and fellowship and have kids and a mortgage and don't want to make their family's livelihood dependent on the whims of an NIH study section, and you'll be competing against people with just PhD's who at the same age point have had an additional ~10 years of full time research/publication on you. There is also a huge peer effect. Once you go through all the training and see people making big $ in clinical practice, there is a huge psychological aspect to renting a small apartment next to the big medical center in the expensive city while you are trying to establish your lab, while your colleagues are buying mini-mansions and posting Facebook pictures of their vacations to tropical islands.

That being said, ENT is nice because you come at it from many angles and lots of PhD research experiences are relevant. For example, lot of otology is core neuroscience. Rhinology has a lot of immunology/allergy stuff going on. Head and neck is all about cancer biology, mol bio, genomics, etc. Pediatric ENT has a lot of congenital stuff, so genetics and dev bio is relevant. There is a lot of physics in phonation. Etc. So anyway, you can take a lot of different PhD experiences into ENT and make them relevant. Because people in academia often end up focussing on very specific clinical practice, if their research overlaps, it often makes them very prestigious in that particular area. For example, if you become a big research expert on the vestibular system, you can have your clinical practice all about it as well and people will refer all their dizzy patients to you. In that way, ENT can be a good fit.
 
Sorry to hijack the thread, but what chances does someone have to matching ENT with limited research experience? Would a year off between third and fourth year of medicine make a great difference in matching outcomes? I understand the importance of research in the academic world, but what if you just want to work in the private world?
 
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Sorry to hijack the thread, but what chances does someone have to matching ENT with limited research experience? Would a year off between third and fourth year of medicine make a great difference in matching outcomes? I understand the importance of research in the academic world, but what if you just want to work in the private world?

Gotta go through the academic world (residency) to get to the private world.

I think if you have great grades and board scores and letters, but are lacking research, then taking time to have a PRODUCTIVE year of research would help you. If you have a lot of gaping holes in your application aside from research, a research year isn't going to have the same positive impact.
 
MD/PhD student here in my PhD years and I'm really starting to like ENT. I'm wondering if you guys are familiar with docs in this field that get some form of protected time for research (1-2 days a week) and are still successfully fulfilling al their clinical duties, while not turning into a crappy surgeon. Just trying to get an idea about how this field supports either clinical or basic science research.

The tough part is that there really are not too many role models for what you are describing. I am sure they do exist, but not at every ENT program. On the interview trail (7 years ago) Iowa had someone that did basic science research and clinic, and most of the residents were pretty impressed by how that faculty member was able to balance research and clinical duties.
 
I know an ENT who used to work at my home institution and was a fantastic research mentor to students and residents alike. He is MD/PhD trained and does a lot of work in cancer immunology He split his time between clinical duties and running a basic science lab - and was remarkably effective at both. Unfortunately he left us to co-direct the H&N program at Baylor.

https://www.bcm.edu/people/view/5e1ed214-ecf2-11e3-a42d-005056b104be

He is a VERY nice guy and always happy to help/give advice - wouldn't hurt to shoot him an email. PM me if you would like more info, I worked in his lab and wouldn't mind if you let him know that I referred you.
 
I know an ENT who used to work at my home institution and was a fantastic research mentor to students and residents alike. He is MD/PhD trained and does a lot of work in cancer immunology He split his time between clinical duties and running a basic science lab - and was remarkably effective at both. Unfortunately he left us to co-direct the H&N program at Baylor.

https://www.bcm.edu/people/view/5e1ed214-ecf2-11e3-a42d-005056b104be

He is a VERY nice guy and always happy to help/give advice - wouldn't hurt to shoot him an email. PM me if you would like more info, I worked in his lab and wouldn't mind if you let him know that I referred you.


Thanks, I'll email him
 
Hi,

Just to chime in, I'm a MD/PhD and in an ENT residency, finishing year 4/6. Our program includes at least 1 year of protected research time. I think about 1/3 of our residents have PhD's.

As I approach the next decision point I've been asking these questions again. Let me say that at my residency, we are able to get a real project done because we have at least 16 months (12 as a T32 year and then 4 more as a R3) of completely protected research time (some residents do 2 years of protected time, but most MD/PhDs opt to not do that path). I did a basic science project and will get a 1st author publication in a non-OTO journal. That's not to say you can't do that in a standard 5 yr residency, but it will depend on how much research time you get and how protected it is.

I'm planning on an academic fellowship and then career. I figure if I get frustrated with academics I can always change into PP, but it's hard to go the other way around. And I don't know about this "renting a small apartment" while my friends live in mansions...while there is some monetary disparity, it's not awful. One of our fellows was offered $300+ to start in an academic first year job with 3 years of salary until he gets his lab running, and that's at a good location. But the bottom line is that for me, doing the same thing every day in PP and sending the challenging cases to the local university (or never seeing them), and never doing any research and just collecting $ is boring to me. I seriously considered a facial plastics fellowship but am not doing it because of that reason (and some others).

To answer you a little more specifically, you can build your CV during an ENT residency, but it depends on 1. how hard you are willing to work, and 2. how supportive the residency is. For me, #2 was as good as possible. #1...eh, residency can be draining. Nevertheless, I was able to publish a few book chapters and got 3 grants awarded (one from industry, one from our own Children's Hospital, and one from the CORE). I'm submitting my basic science manuscript now, and even if it doesn't go to the first journal we send it to, it will go somewhere. Having shown "fundability," I think I'm in a good spot to write a K award when the time comes.

About the "crappy surgeon" thing, I will say that during the first two months back from the lab I felt rusty, both technically and clinically. But that doesn't last.

I guess to sum up, if you are seriously considering a career in academics that actually does real research, AND you want to be a surgeon, ENT is an excellent field. It's one of the main reasons I chose it in medical school. And I have not been disappointed in what can be accomplished vis a vis research/grants/papers during the training. How much can be done after residency and what that will look like regarding time/money, I don't know yet.
 
Most of the posts in this thread seem geared towards basic science research, and I was wondering if you all can comment on clinical research in ENT?
 
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