Research with no RadOnc department

[MedGOAT]

Hello! I'm a M1 currently attending a medical school that does not have a radiation oncology department. I am very interested in a career as a radiation oncologist. Currently I have been trying to get in contact with radoncs in nearby medical centers who might have clinical research going on but I have had no luck so far. Due to my situation, what are the things I can do to offset lack of radonc research (until fourth year rotations). Thanks!

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[seper]

One obvious one is to do cancer-related project (e.g. chart review or case report) with surgeons or MedOncs.

 

[SJSM001]

One obvious one is to do cancer-related project (e.g. chart review or case report) with surgeons or MedOncs.

Or consider doing a year off or summer research project at another medical school with a residency program.

 

[Neuronix]

what are the things I can do to offset lack of radonc research

Crush step 1 and honor everything.

 

[medgator]

Crush step 1 and honor everything.

Still won't seal the deal IMO. Research and LORs >>>>> other stuff IMO. I'd rather have a a couple of 1st author rad onc pubs/abstracts with a 230 Step I/High Passes vs Honoring everything with a 260 and no research.

Depts want to see that you've taken a keen interest in the field and its advancement. I think rad onc as a whole cares less about grades/scores than something like plastics/derm/ENT/uro.

I think surg/med onc research during the year + a summer research elective in rad onc would be the way to go if the OP can't commit to taking a year off.

 

[Neuronix]

Still won't seal the deal IMO. Research and LORs >>>>> other stuff IMO. I'd rather have a a couple of 1st author rad onc pubs/abstracts with a 230 Step I/High Passes vs Honoring everything with a 260 and no research.

Depts want to see that you've taken a keen interest in the field and its advancement. I think rad onc as a whole cares less about grades/scores than something like plastics/derm/ENT/uro.

I disagree with that based on what I've seen. But that's ok. Clearly both are important. The op asked what they could do until they hit 4th year and started doing research. What they can do is excel in medical school. They can do a month or two of research in fourth year and still probably match just fine.

 

[californiaXRT]

Megdator is right.

Also, Neuronix, Im not sure how recently you applied, but shoehorning a month or two of research in fourth year right before you apply really puts you at the bottom of the heap these days. That's not enough time to even get anything listed out for app purposes in Sept. July is when fourth year starts. That's two months total.

 

[Neuronix]

Megdator is right.

Also, Neuronix, Im not sure how recently you applied, but shoehorning a month or two of research in fourth year right before you apply really puts you at the bottom of the heap these days. That's not enough time to even get anything listed out for app purposes in Sept. July is when fourth year starts. That's two months total.

I stand by what I wrote. I am peripherally involved with residency admissions here, and I see what the medical students here and where I went to med school did. I've seen how many applicants have fared in the match. Clearly this is my own viewpoint, and viewpoints may differ. Getting involved in research early and often is of course important.

However, the truth is that you can garner top-tier interviews and match at big name places with no published research in this field and minimal research experience if your application is strong. I have seen it multiple times. I have seen MD/PhDs with great research records and mediocre medical school applications fail to match. There's a whole spectrum out there, and it's hard to dichotimize into applicant A vs applicant B. But the op asked what is most important for them. And I told them what I told everyone. If you want to match rad onc, kill your step 1 and do well in medical school. I don't care how much research experience you have, if you score 210 on step 1, you're probably going to have to look at another specialty. Clearly there are always going to be exceptions to all of this. But I stand by what I've written because it has been my experience as an MD/PhD with extensive technical experience and cancer research background.

 

[MedGOAT]

I am well aware of hitting 240+ on Step 1 and doing well in school. As for research, I am currently in a lab conducting basic/translational research on solid tumor metastases. I have talked to the PI and we can see (with a lot of hard work of course) 2-5 papers (hopefully a few of those would be first author) in the four years. In addition, I hope to complete some clinical (more heme-onc related) research and case reports during my times in the school during MS3 and 4 years. For my situation, does this sound like a good plan if I apply RadOnc in the future? How much will little or no RadOnc hurt me in this case? Of course, I will try my best to get RadOnc research done during my away rotations and over this summer.

 

[ohioapplicant]

Sounds like you're going to be more than ok on research. don't even worry about it

 

[MedStud!]

I am well aware of hitting 240+ on Step 1 and doing well in school. As for research, I am currently in a lab conducting basic/translational research on solid tumor metastases. I have talked to the PI and we can see (with a lot of hard work of course) 2-5 papers (hopefully a few of those would be first author) in the four years. In addition, I hope to complete some clinical (more heme-onc related) research and case reports during my times in the school during MS3 and 4 years. For my situation, does this sound like a good plan if I apply RadOnc in the future? How much will little or no RadOnc hurt me in this case? Of course, I will try my best to get RadOnc research done during my away rotations and over this summer.

Man... if you get 240+ Step 1, do well in medical school, and crank out 2-5 publications in the basic/translational cancer research sciences (of which a few are first author), and complete some clinical research/case reports... all before you send out your ERAS application during the beginning of your fourth year of medical school without taking any time off in between... then you are a F***ing rockstar!!!

Not to say it is impossible... but as someone who completed a PhD in cancer/radiation related basic science research I know that many of my fellow students will barely be able to complete 2 first author publications in the basic sciences with four full years of dedicated research in the lab in addition to four years of medical school. Again, not to say that you should not go for it or that no one has done it before... just realize it is a lofty goal for the basic sciences (at least from the molecular side of cancer research; I have seen these many pubs in a short period of time from people doing bioinformatics, however).

One thing I could suggest it to submit an abstract to the annual ASTRO meeting by December of your MS3. ASTRO abstracts are published in the Red Journal so while they may not be a manuscript publication they do show up in the publication section of your ERAS app and it will look good as you are already participating in the field's largest meeting. I will admit that ASTRO is not the best meeting overall for a student presenting basic science research, since basic science is not a big highlight of the meeting... but if it is reasonable data for cancer it would be highly likely to be accepted.

Just be sure NOT to hurt your Step 1 score or other performance by taking too much time away from medical school for research! Basic science takes a very focused effort so if you want to accomplish something along the lines you are suggesting you should seriously consider taking a year off for research. The NIH has a pretty well known HHMI research intern year program I know a few students have done. That is the only program off the top of my head but I'm sure there are more out there. I know that the idea of lengthening an already long process is nauseating but it is only one year in the grand scheme of things. Either way... if you intend to have a publication for your ERAS it is ideal to have it submitted in plenty of time for it to undergo the review process, which can take some time. If you submit a publication from research done during an away rotation between MS3-MS4 it is highly unlikely to be "published" in time for your residency application. It will still go on your application under "research experiences" of course... but won't be officially published.

And I would have to agree with Neuronix that having published Rad Onc research isn't "necessary" to match into this field. Some places actually will not offer you an interview if you have a very extensive basic science research background. Some programs are strictly clinical and don't offer much, if any... research opportunity during residency. So if you have a PhD they will often think "hey... this guy/gal wants to do research so lets offer the interview to someone who is a better fit." Its nice to have a research experience or two to show that you are interested in the field but I could actually imagine a scenario where you hurt your chances by doing research; i.e. you take too much time away from school for research... end up hurting your board scores and end up without any publications to show for it either. My own opinion is that an awful board score will hurt you more in getting interviews than not having "Rad Onc specific" research experience. The Oncology research experience you are describing should suffice for meeting the "research check-in-the-box," so to speak.

Of course... the best is to have BOTH and you are doing the right thing by starting early. As long as you have a realistic plan you can pull it off.

 

[Lamount]

I can speak from my personal experience. I came from a medical school without a rad onc residency (small department). I had decided to go into radiation oncology mid way through my third year so I didn't really have much of an opportunity to conduct any new research. I don't have a PhD. I had some second author publications in physics during undergrad and some posters with a random lab during medical school. Despite the fact that I had a high step 1 score and good grades, I entered the application process very insecure about my lack of research. I ended up doing two away electives (no time for research during either) and one rotation at my home department. After reading this forum and seeing how much rad onc research some of the other applicants did, I didn't think that I would get a single interview. I ended up doing a lot better than i thought. I got a lot of lower tier interviews and a few top ten interviews, and ended up at a great program. This is just one story... and I might not have been as lucky if the applicants my year had been different. Try to get some research done, but don't let someone convince you that you don't have a chance if you can't get it done in time.

 

[evilbooyaa]

If you want to match rad onc, kill your step 1 and do well in medical school. I don't care how much research experience you have, if you score 210 on step 1, you're probably going to have to look at another specialty. Clearly there are always going to be exceptions to all of this. But I stand by what I've written because it has been my experience as an MD/PhD with extensive technical experience and cancer research background.

I know it's not the holy grail anymore (being 2-3 years old) but 9 out of 11 applicants with a Step 1 between 200 and 210 matched in Rad Onc according to the 2011 charting the outcomes (Numbered Page 257 or Page 261 in the PDF). Granted, there is obviously a lot of self-selection in people that score below 210 (and if you said < 200 is a near-absolute cut off, I'd agree with you as only 4 out of 12 applicants matched with a < 200 Step 1), but I think research and strong LORs can make up for a < 220 (and definitely < 240) step score. Of course I'm biased as I will be applying with a step 1 score in the 220s, but just my 2 cents.