Residencies - How to get them?

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wheatthinners

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Maintain a high GPA/class rank and do well in clinical rotations (so that you'll have awesome LORs). From what I've been told by current interns/residents/clinicians, research is definitely helpful (especially if you manage to get published!) but it's not a requirement or dealbreaker. For what it's worth, I was asked about my previous research experience in some of my internship interviews. What your referees say about you is probably the most important thing they'll look at in your application though.

I have no idea about prestige of the vet school.

(Disclaimer: I'm a 4th year student applying to SA rotating internships through the match this year with the end goal of pursuing a surgical residency, so I don't speak from experience.)
 
Hey all,

As a vet student, what do you have to do within vet school to improve your chances of getting into a good internship/residency (e.g. opthalmology, surgery)? Do you have to do research and get published during your 4 years of vet school?

Do residencies look at how prestigious your vet school is in determining who to accept? For example, would residencies be less willing to accept a graduate from Western U over someone who graduated from Ohio, Washington, or Tufts?

What are the technical requirements for getting into a match/internship/residency?

Thanks!


Grades, obviously - that's kind of a no-brainer though.

But even more important in many specialties is networking. Who you know, who you have worked with, who writes your letters, who you go visit or do an externship with, etc are all IMMENSELY important. Note: this does not imply prestige. This implies knowing the right people in your field, whichever school they are at.

"Soft skills" such as communications and working well with others are also paramount. No one wants to work with a dingus or someone who can't talk well with patients. In my mind, those are every more important than physical/surgery skills (although you obviously need to be at least somewhat competent in the basics). Almost every vet I have talked to say the biggest deficits in most incoming interns and residents is in client/staff communication, management, and record-keeping.
 
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Definitely agree with WhtsThFrequency, networking is key!

I always felt a little uncomfortable about the idea of "it's who you know", but it's more about who knows you. It's hard for someone to accept a random good-on-paper person, without knowing them. Being able to call someone they trust or a letter from someone with a good track record for placing good interns/residents goes a long way.

As for the publications, I do think they can help you move up to the next round of consideration.

All this is really variable and not only varies between programs, but even people within each program.

(P.S. Sorry about the random posting. Was going to look through the pre-med boards for my brother and couldn't help but swing by the vet forums)
 
Order of importance for each:

To get an internship - 1) GPA/class rank high as possible, 2) good letters of recommendation, 3) have a good reputation on clinics amongst the faculty
To get a residency - 1) GPA/class rank high as possible, 2) good letters of recommendation, 3) have a good reputation on clinics amongst the faculty, 4) publish a paper at some point

I was a mess in vet school and none of these things really were true for me except for #3 each time. I'm doing a neuro residency now, but I had to grind a little extra and get lucky. The easier path is what I laid out.
 
Order of importance for each:

To get an internship - 1) GPA/class rank high as possible, 2) good letters of recommendation, 3) have a good reputation on clinics amongst the faculty
To get a residency - 1) GPA/class rank high as possible, 2) good letters of recommendation, 3) have a good reputation on clinics amongst the faculty, 4) publish a paper at some point

I was a mess in vet school and none of these things really were true for me except for #3 each time. I'm doing a neuro residency now, but I had to grind a little extra and get lucky. The easier path is what I laid out.
Not true based on feedback from current interns, residents, program directors. Good LORs>GPA.
 
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Not true based on feedback from current interns, residents, program directors. Good LORs>GPA.

That is incorrect. You're polling a sample of people who likely all have very good GPA's. In that population GPA doesn't matter relative to other things. But GPA is the gateway to allow the other things to matter. A good solid GPA lets you in a sense "move on" to the next round where your LOR's and reputation can be considered. However, if your GPA sucks, you will be immediately filtered out of consideration for many many good internships and residencies. It absolutely matters.
 
I've been told the same thing as Nstarz, from the same types of people. GPA definitely matters, I'm not saying it doesn't, but I don't think it's the end-all parameter. You have to work harder to overcome the 'bad' GPA and stand out, but it's definitely possible. There are probably places that do just toss applications out based solely on GPA, maybe even a majority or programs, but not every place is like that.

I tried to get a clin path residency straight out of school and was told that my experience and LORs from recognizable names made me very competitive. In the end, I lost out to people who had done internships or practiced already but I got feedback from every program I applied to and no one said that my GPA being 3.2 and being below the 50% mark in class rank had any affect. Actually, when I specifically brought up my GPA on a path externship I was told they didn't really care and my experience was much more important to them. It could be much different in another specialty though, I do acknowledge that.

On the other hand, I also did the match this year for an internship once it was clear I wasn't getting a residency. I do feel that my lower GPA and lower half class rank held me back from matching at certain places, but I expected that. I had nothing to make me stand out for a SA rotating internship because I've been so path focused. I knew I was an average (well, below average is more honest) match applicant and applied broadly as a result. In the end, I matched at a place I visited on an externship. I think spending time there letting them get to know me over a week or two was the reason I matched there and clearly made up for having a 3.2 GPA. Am I at a big time clinic like AMC or Angell or a big teaching hospital? No, but I'm happy with where I ended up.
 
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Good stuff. Glad it worked out for you. In my experience applying for internships, I was screened and filtered out before even getting an interview at many many places I was interested in. They all said the same thing, which was they have so many applicants that they have to use GPA as a way to filter out the applicant pool (my GPA was horrific coming out of school). It sucked but it also lit a fire under my ass and I turned things around (currently a 2nd year neuro resident at a private practice).
 
Good stuff. Glad it worked out for you. In my experience applying for internships, I was screened and filtered out before even getting an interview at many many places I was interested in. They all said the same thing, which was they have so many applicants that they have to use GPA as a way to filter out the applicant pool (my GPA was horrific coming out of school). It sucked but it also lit a fire under my ass and I turned things around (currently a 2nd year neuro resident at a private practice).
I think there's a big difference between a 2.3 and a 3.3 in terms of competitiveness. I don't think a 3.3 will get you screened out of a ton of internships, but a 2.3 sure will. I'm not sure what you mean by "horrific," lol. There's probably a diminishing return on GPA. Anything over 3.5, you're probably fine. I'm sitting at a 3.4 currently and hoping I make the cut. I think you would struggle for sure with <3.0 but I don't think a 3.4 will keep me out of the running by any means (especially at competitive private practice internships).
 
i think a lot of places are actually moving away from looking at GPA and using class rank instead. seemed like all the program directors i spoke to were recognizing that some schools have significant grade inflation, and were more interested in seeing how a student stacked against classmates rather than against others in the pool GPA-wise.

i bet class rank and GPA are used to screen against PP applicants who dont interview or make personal contact at large practices that are receiving a large number of applicants.
 
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I'm considering pursuing an internship and a residency in SA Internal Med (Why? Great question! I can't figure it out either) and it would be nice to have a good idea of what a competitive GPA is. I want to be competitive, but I refuse to kill myself trying to get all A's if I don't need them to get where I want to go in my career.
 
Like people have said, programs are starting to look more at class rank. One clinician told me that the top 10% are highly likely to match, top 25% have a good chance, top 50% have an okay chance, and >50%..well.. good luck.
 
Like people have said, programs are starting to look more at class rank. One clinician told me that the top 10% are highly likely to match, top 25% have a good chance, top 50% have an okay chance, and >50%..well.. good luck.
Just curious...was he/she speaking to private practice as well as academic internships/residencies? Just residencies? Seems like the match rate for internships is ~50% and the match rate for residencies is ~33% (from the data I have). Honestly, I doubt 50% of people matching are in the top 25% of their classes. Lol.
 
Just curious...was he/she speaking to private practice as well as academic internships/residencies? Just residencies? Seems like the match rate for internships is ~50% and the match rate for residencies is ~33% (from the data I have). Honestly, I doubt 50% of people matching are in the top 25% of their classes. Lol.
He wasn't clear. It was an ECCM clinician at MSU who routinely gives a talk about internships/residencies.
 
I hope the numbers aren't that tight, because while I have a good GPA (3.67 currently), I'm not in the top 10 or 25% of my class. My class is oddly academic, to the point that our faculty have pointed it out several times to us.
 
I'm considering pursuing an internship and a residency in SA Internal Med (Why? Great question! I can't figure it out either) and it would be nice to have a good idea of what a competitive GPA is. I want to be competitive, but I refuse to kill myself trying to get all A's if I don't need them to get where I want to go in my career.
first off, you are CRAZY ;) [have you been through an internal med rotation yet? or just the classes? because I love internal medicine in theory, but really despise it in practice, which i find very interesting]

there's probably not a single "competitive" GPA, but it also probably varies between academia and private practice. one thing you have in your favor is that there are a lot more residency spots for SAIM than a lot of the specialties. i also saw multiple listings for unmatched SAIM (and ECC) residencies after match date this year and last year. i have heard that SAIM is quickly becoming an oversaturated field though, so that might be something to consider when you're thinking about the residency route. also, if theres any chance you'd want to go the academia route, you need to be killing yourself for As. you pretty much need to do your residency (and +/-internship) in academia to work in academia nowadays. pay isnt as great and your responsibilities would be very different (teaching/lecturing vet students, research/publication, mentoring residents, usually not seeing cases as primary clinician but rather overseeing the interns and residents through their cases).
 
first off, you are CRAZY ;) [have you been through an internal med rotation yet? or just the classes? because I love internal medicine in theory, but really despise it in practice, which i find very interesting]

there's probably not a single "competitive" GPA, but it also probably varies between academia and private practice. one thing you have in your favor is that there are a lot more residency spots for SAIM than a lot of the specialties. i also saw multiple listings for unmatched SAIM (and ECC) residencies after match date this year and last year. i have heard that SAIM is quickly becoming an oversaturated field though, so that might be something to consider when you're thinking about the residency route. also, if theres any chance you'd want to go the academia route, you need to be killing yourself for As. you pretty much need to do your residency (and +/-internship) in academia to work in academia nowadays. pay isnt as great and your responsibilities would be very different (teaching/lecturing vet students, research/publication, mentoring residents, usually not seeing cases as primary clinician but rather overseeing the interns and residents through their cases).

Well. Some of us like that type of thing. And consider it a betterment to the future generation of vets. I don't know exactly what the OP's intent is here, but the phrasing here seems a bit negative?
 
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first off, you are CRAZY ;) [have you been through an internal med rotation yet? or just the classes? because I love internal medicine in theory, but really despise it in practice, which i find very interesting]

there's probably not a single "competitive" GPA, but it also probably varies between academia and private practice. one thing you have in your favor is that there are a lot more residency spots for SAIM than a lot of the specialties. i also saw multiple listings for unmatched SAIM (and ECC) residencies after match date this year and last year. i have heard that SAIM is quickly becoming an oversaturated field though, so that might be something to consider when you're thinking about the residency route. also, if theres any chance you'd want to go the academia route, you need to be killing yourself for As. you pretty much need to do your residency (and +/-internship) in academia to work in academia nowadays. pay isnt as great and your responsibilities would be very different (teaching/lecturing vet students, research/publication, mentoring residents, usually not seeing cases as primary clinician but rather overseeing the interns and residents through their cases).

At this point I just like it in theory, which is one reason I haven't settled on pursuing it for sure. I'll be doing a week rotation in Internal Med next semester though, so I'm hoping that will help.

I think I would like to go into academia because I would like to teach at some point. I didn't realize that academic residencies were more competitive.
 
At this point I just like it in theory, which is one reason I haven't settled on pursuing it for sure. I'll be doing a week rotation in Internal Med next semester though, so I'm hoping that will help.

I think I would like to go into academia because I would like to teach at some point. I didn't realize that academic residencies were more competitive.

Be prepared for potentially needing an MS or PhD graduate degree on top of DVM + specialty if you want a professorship. It's not essential in all specialties, but it definitely opens up a lot more positions. Of the 13 ACVIM profs we have at my school, 7 of them also have MS degrees and 4 have PhDs.
 
Be prepared for potentially needing an MS or PhD graduate degree on top of DVM + specialty if you want a professorship. It's not essential in all specialties, but it definitely opens up a lot more positions. Of the 13 ACVIM profs we have at my school, 7 of them also have MS degrees and 4 have PhDs.
i feel like most of the academic clinical residency listings i've seen include obtaining a non-thesis based masters. i think this might be a newer thing though. looks like of our boarded ACVIM clinicians, we have 9 total, 4 with PhDs, and 2 with just an MS listed.

DT, in case you're interested in the PhD route, NCSU offers a clinical investigator IM residency each year that combines a PhD with the residency. they do the 3 year med residency while simultaneously working on a PhD project, take boards, and then continue with the PhD program for however long it takes.
 
This is true, most of the MS are non thesis and for most clinical professorships that's ok. I was speaking more to tenure track positions, not sure what level Timo is aiming at. I'm going clinical myself but path is a special beast.
 
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I'm kind of spitballing at this point because I don't feel like I have enough information/experience (going into my 3rd year) to really pick a path and go for it. But ideally I would like to do clinical work most of the time and then teach periodically, which I guess is more of the clinical professorship route...?
 
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Actually semi-leaning away from an ECC residency at this point (not feeling the critical care love so much). More thinking about doing internship + ABVP canine/feline and work in ER receiving. I would like to potentially work in academia at some point, though. Would this kill my chances-do I absolutely need the official ECC residency? Or is an ABVP considered " good enough" for academia? Barring all the above regarding Master's/PhD's.
 
My mentor at UTK is a DABVP in canine and feline practice. I don't think he has any other degrees. He works in our Community Practice service. So I don't think it's a no-no in academia necessarily.
 
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