Residency in California

[UCI]

Hi,

I'd like to hear thoughts on the following questions.
What program do you think provides the best training opportunities?
What program is most marketable for jobs (particularly in Southern California, but also nationally)?
What program has the best job-site lifestyle (working atmosphere, hours, treatment)?

Thanks!

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[Psai]

Ask your pd homeboy

 

[whiplashWhoMD]

One of these threads again?

 

[old_boy]

The sarcastic comments are a result of this being addressed in the past. Please use the search function.

But the record shows you are a multi-year member and likely at the stage where you'll be applying soon, so I'll be helpful. BUT. Please use the search function too and don't abuse this forum.

Source: Attending now in CA, but I trained in a CA program and interviewed at most of the CA programs when I was at your stage in The Game, young grasshopper

Hi,
What program do you think provides the best training opportunities?

ALL of the CA training programs are good (I'm not familiar with the new Kaiser San Diego program, but hear good things if you're interested in community EM)
Best programs in CA by reputation are (apologies to those not included, since... again... ALL are good in CA): Harbor, USC, Highland. Honorable mention to UCFresno, UCDavis.

What program is most marketable for jobs (particularly in Southern California, but also nationally)?

ALL are good regionally/locally. Stanford, Loma Linda, Irvine, and Kaiser SD not as well known nationally but I'm sure you still get great training at these sites. For southern CA specifically, Harbor and USC are generally recognized as best regarded, but UCLA and San Diego are also excellent. I have no doubt that graduates from Loma Linda and Irvine also have a good shot at So.Cal. jobs.

What program has the best job-site lifestyle (working atmosphere, hours, treatment)?

Good = UC San Diego, UCLA, Kaiser SD, Highland, Fresno
Bad hours = USC (although as mentioned above, Kick-Ass training, one of the best training sites if not THE best training site by reputation in the country)
OK = Davis, UCSF, Stanford
Unknown by me: Loma Linda, Irvine, Fresno

Thanks!

You are welcome.

 

[RPedigo]

Hi,

I'd like to hear thoughts on the following questions.
What program do you think provides the best training opportunities?
What program is most marketable for jobs (particularly in Southern California, but also nationally)?
What program has the best job-site lifestyle (working atmosphere, hours, treatment)?

Thanks!

I will echo the sentiment of old_boy and say that all the California programs are excellent. I would have been happy to train at any of them, but ended up choosing (and luckily also being chosen by) Harbor because it was the best personal fit for me. Great people, outstanding training environment, work hard but not to the point of feeling overwhelmed, and (for what it's worth) my entire residency class got their first choice in jobs. Harbor for me was a phenomenal experience -- enough so that I am still there now! It is most important to train at some place you will feel happy to train at, fit in with the culture and people, and is in a location that you want to live in for 3-4 years. There's no "US News" rankings of residency programs for a reason -- too subjective and there's a reason why everyone's rank list looks different! Good luck on your application this year and hope you find a place that is a great fit for you!

 

[Psai]

The sarcastic comments are a result of this being addressed in the past. Please use the search function.

But the record shows you are a multi-year member and likely at the stage where you'll be applying soon, so I'll be helpful. BUT. Please use the search function too and don't abuse this forum.

Source: Attending now in CA, but I trained in a CA program and interviewed at most of the CA programs when I was at your stage in The Game, young grasshopper


ALL of the CA training programs are good (I'm not familiar with the new Kaiser San Diego program, but hear good things if you're interested in community EM)
Best programs in CA by reputation are (apologies to those not included, since... again... ALL are good in CA): Harbor, USC, Highland. Honorable mention to UCFresno, UCDavis.


ALL are good regionally/locally. Stanford, Loma Linda, Irvine, and Kaiser SD not as well known nationally but I'm sure you still get great training at these sites. For southern CA specifically, Harbor and USC are generally recognized as best regarded, but UCLA and San Diego are also excellent. I have no doubt that graduates from Loma Linda and Irvine also have a good shot at So.Cal. jobs.


Good = UC San Diego, UCLA, Kaiser SD, Highland, Fresno
Bad hours = USC (although as mentioned above, Kick-Ass training, one of the best training sites if not THE best training site by reputation in the country)
OK = Davis, UCSF, Stanford
Unknown by me: Loma Linda, Irvine, Fresno


You are welcome.

So is fresno good or no

 

[TheComebacKid]

I interviewed at the several of the California programs.

LAC+USC, Harbor, and Highland are the big three (all county programs) that are VERY highly regarded nationally. They were all great programs when I interviewed there.

My personal favorite program, and would have ranked first if I didn't have other obligations, was UCSF Fresno. I just felt like I fit well with the program, the residents, and I loved Fresno (although the central valley is by and large disliked by most, I have a unique affection for it). They have extremely high acuity, and EM residents have a tremendous amount of autonomy. The faculty I met, the PD, etc. were all outstanding. The facilities were great, and I really felt like the ED residents there ran the show.

Fresno is also literally the only major one level one trauma center from LA to SF. They have a huge catchment area, lots of sick patients, lots of crazy pathology. Overall it's a great program and I have nothing but love for that program. Be sure to check them out if you can.

 

[Cinematographer]

Fresno was the most legit CA program I interviewed at. If it were at a more hispter-friendly location, had 3x the cost of living and horrendous traffic, then people would rank it as highly as LA County and Highland.

 

[exsanguination]

So is fresno good or no

If UCSF/Fresno wasn't actually located in Fresno, but in a desirable city, I have a feeling it would be one of the most popular programs in the country. The training there is outstanding and rivals any "big name" program.

 

[medappadvantage]

.

 

[EKGdoc]

Which is why location/geography is such an important part of program "ratings". There are many great programs out there- if you took them out of the cornfields and put them next to the beach or mountains they'd be even "greater". Finding a program that fits u is one of the most important "ratings".

 

[Psai]

If UCSF/Fresno wasn't actually located in Fresno, but in a desirable city, I have a feeling it would be one of the most popular programs in the country. The training there is outstanding and rivals any "big name" program.

I was just joking because he put it under good and unknown

I think very highly of fresno, one of the top students in my class ranked it #1

 

[Brahnold Bloodaxe]

How is Stanford? Do they have any connections that help docs get involved with startups or venture capital?

 

[old_boy]

If it were at a more hispter-friendly location, had 3x the cost of living and horrendous traffic, then people would rank it as highly as LA County and Highland.

True

Excellent program without a doubt. But let's be honest, the city of Fresno kind of sucks.

 

[old_boy]

How is Stanford? Do they have any connections that help docs get involved with startups or venture capital?

Stanford/Kaiser (actually a joint program) is good. Getting better, with full department status and moving to a 4 year format. My friends there tell me working in the main Stanford ED can be frustrating at times, but Kaiser and particularly Santa Clara Valley are regarded as good places to train. No particular VC/Startup hookup that I'm aware of.

 

[exsanguination]

Anybody know a thing or two about Kaweah Delta in the central valley? I remember they were a new program when I was applying and accordingly stayed away. It's also in a town I've never heard of and I'm from California

 

[TheComebacKid]

Which is why location/geography is such an important part of program "ratings". There are many great programs out there- if you took them out of the cornfields and put them next to the beach or mountains they'd be even "greater". Finding a program that fits u is one of the most important "ratings".

I really understand the importance of location. Honestly, I do. Residency can be a taxing time, and being in a location you love, close to family, friends, your favorite eateries etc. is important.

But on the flip side of the coin, training at a program like Fresno which for all practical purposes is "the middle of nowhere" really, really, really has it's advantages. You get to live in the great state of California, yet have a significantly lower cost of living with much less traffic than LA or SF as stated by Cinematographer. In addition, Yosemite, Sequoia and Kings Canyon National Parks are a day trip away. You can still make it down to the beach to get your surf on if you want to.

And the real advantage comes in your training. Training at a place like Fresno, you are literally the only center for hundreds of miles. You get a significant knife and gun club, bad MVA's for people driving in their Ferrari's from LA to SF, the organophosphate poisoning and bad farming accidents, in addition to all your bread and butter EM given a huge underserved patient population. Your scope of clinical exposure is unreal. So maybe the Fresno ramen pales in comparison to LA, but I think it's a really small price to pay.

I definitely have a huge crush on Fresno. But there were so many other great programs in the country that weren't in huge metropolitan areas that had TONS to offer. These programs were never mentioned on the highly subjective "Top 10 lists", probably because most people don't put themselves through the trouble of checking them out. I know it's not always reasonable from the standpoint of family, kids schools etc, but if you have the opportunity, I highly recommend you check out these places just to get a feel for what's out there. The only reason I went on my Fresno interview initially was that it was my second interview invite and the date fit well with my schedule, and it ended up being one of my favorite programs on the trail.

 

[TheComebacKid]

Anybody know a thing or two about Kaweah Delta in the central valley? I remember they were a new program when I was applying and accordingly stayed away. It's also in a town I've never heard of and I'm from California

I didn't interview there for the same reason as you, just seemed like a brand new shop that probably need some time to work all the kinks out. Also wasn't interested in going to a community program, not that there's anything wrong with a place like that, just wasn't for my professional interests.

It's in Visalia, which I have been to many times. If you think Fresno is in the middle of nowhere, Visalia is literally on a whole other level of isolation. That being said, Visalia is the gateway to Sequoia National Park and the outdoor activities with the Sierra's in your backyard are pretty much unparalleled. I can't comment really on the quality of training since I never interviewed there. But it really is beautiful in that part of the state.

 

[NoTownPreMed]

I definitely agree with the comments about UCSF-Fresno. I've worked with residents there, and they're given a great amount of autonomy. As stated above, only level 1 trauma center between LA and SF. Quite a few residents/past residents have come from the central valley. The program in Visalia is still fairly new and it's a level 3 trauma center, very DO friendly as you can see on their website, that's as far as I know. Being from here, I completely understand the term "completely in the middle of nowhere" lol. It does have it's advantages though, if you plan on driving to NorCal or SoCal, it isn't that far of a drive.

 

[jr doctor in sd]

The only programs I have heard as elite in Cali are LA County, UC Irvine, UC San Diego and UCSF Fresno. I have personally heard horrible things about kaweah delta, loma linda, and kaiser SD (though its location is obviously amazing). Can't speak on northern california as it's too cold/gloomy for me to venture that far north.

 

[Pons Asinorum]

The only programs I have heard as elite in Cali are LA County, UC Irvine, UC San Diego and UCSF Fresno. I have personally heard horrible things about kaweah delta, loma linda, and kaiser SD (though its location is obviously amazing). Can't speak on northern california as it's too cold/gloomy for me to venture that far north.

I giggled a bit about UCI being an elite CA program. Not trying to offend, honestly, but UCI is not mentioned in the same breath as the big county programs. Great place. But for people who like to keep score on such things, that program (and UCSD as well) is not "elite." You mentioned that you can't speak of Nor Cal programs, but did mention Fresno as elite. The best program in CA is the one at which you match, because the odds are stacked against you from the get go.

 

[TheComebacKid]

I really liked Loma Linda a lot when I interviewed there. There was really nothing "horrible" about it in the least bit. It's a 3 year program which is a good gig for someone looking to stay in California and go to a 3 year program (most are 4). Cheaper cost of living than LA. The city of San Bernardino and San Bernardino county is one of the highest crime cities and counties in the state. They have a huge catchment area, are literally the only level 1 between LA and Vegas. They see some crazy pathology. The acuity seemed really good IMO and they have arguably one of the top peds EM experiences in the country.

UCI was great too. Their ultrasound training for the most part is probably better than anywhere in the country. Again, 3 year program, may not be for everyone. Not a sexy knife and gun club like LAC+USC, but still a great program depending on your interests.