Navy Resignation

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j4pac

Prior Flight Surgeon PM&R attending guy
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I would love to get your feedback on this topic. I am currently applying to civilian PM&R advanced programs. My commitment is up in the summer of 2016. I am hopeful that I match this year and this is a bridge that I do not have to cross...but I am going to ask the question anyway because there is very little information out there on the topic and if it doesn't help me, maybe it helps someone in the future.

If my commitment is up in the summer of 2016, I understand that you have to submit resignation paperwork about a year in advance. The problem is that if I don't match this year, I would be filing for resignation this summer before having a civilian resident secured next March. A bit risky.

My question is if there is a way to pull back resignation paperwork and extend? And does anyone have any idea how to do so and the process involved?

Also, doesn't anyone know if you are eligible for inter-branch transferring for residency after your commitment is up? PM&R is not a need for Navy but I believe that I would be competitive for an Army spot at Walter Reed. If my commitment is up with the Navy...would the Army be willing to take me? Have you heard such transfers of service?

Thanks.

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I've seen resignations pulled back, but only before they left the CO's desk. Might be too late if it gets sent to PERS or wherever the magic happens. How would you know about a residency spot in the fall? If so, 8-9 months is enough time to get a separation approved (mine took about 6-7 months from start to finish). But if you won't know about a match until March, it will most definitely be too late to either put in a last-minute resignation request or pull it back.

I have heard of transfers from one service to another, but it is very difficult and time consuming - about 18 months in the two cases I am aware of (and neither physicians).
 
I've seen people resign in 3 months. Not saying that it's common or easy, just that I've seen it done. It probably helped that the people 1) had some rank to throw around, 2) didn't have a hard deadline (like you would for a residency), and 3) had a bunch of leave to use in order to walk paperwork through as needed. If you're (understandably) not willing to risk not having a job of some sort on 1 July 2016, then getting out in 3+ months is probably the safer play than trying to get separation orders rescinded. You could probably even start the process several weeks before the match to hedge your bets. If the Navy's process is anything like the Army's, then there will be a number of steps you'll have to take at the local level before an RFO gets generated and you're pot committed. That way, if the match goes poorly for you, then it'll be easy to hit the brakes.
 
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They will know (901) 874-2095.
 
I would love to get your feedback on this topic. I am currently applying to civilian PM&R advanced programs. My commitment is up in the summer of 2016. I am hopeful that I match this year and this is a bridge that I do not have to cross...but I am going to ask the question anyway because there is very little information out there on the topic and if it doesn't help me, maybe it helps someone in the future.

If my commitment is up in the summer of 2016, I understand that you have to submit resignation paperwork about a year in advance. The problem is that if I don't match this year, I would be filing for resignation this summer before having a civilian resident secured next fall. A bit risky.

My question is if there is a way to pull back resignation paperwork and extend? And does anyone have any idea how to do so and the process involved?

Also, doesn't anyone know if you are eligible for inter-branch transferring for residency after your commitment is up? PM&R is not a need for Navy but I believe that I would be competitive for an Army spot at Walter Reed. If my commitment is up with the Navy...would the Army be willing to take me? Have you heard such transfers of service?

Thanks.

Once your ADSO is up you transferring service is not that much of a pain in the derriere. You can talk to you human resource command.
 
I've seen resignations pulled back, but only before they left the CO's desk. Might be too late if it gets sent to PERS or wherever the magic happens. How would you know about a residency spot in the fall? If so, 8-9 months is enough time to get a separation approved (mine took about 6-7 months from start to finish). But if you won't know about a match until March, it will most definitely be too late to either put in a last-minute resignation request or pull it back.

I have heard of transfers from one service to another, but it is very difficult and time consuming - about 18 months in the two cases I am aware of (and neither physicians).

My apologies for the typo. I wouldn't find out in the Fall...I meant the Spring (NRMP match).
 
Thank you for all of the help. If I don't match, I will:

1) Call (901) 874-2095
2) Talk to my human resource counselor
3) Talk to the Navy PM&R specialty leader...as he would also know the Army PM&R specialty leader
4) Plan to apply to Walter Reed PM&R (Army vs Navy)
5) Plan on applying civilian for 2016

I would rather go unemployed with the opportunity to go to residency than be employed without the opportunity to go to residency. So with that reasoning, I would prefer resigning early with the potential to pull back the resignation. My wife will soon be an attending, which gives me a little bit more flexibility in regards to NEEDING to work.

I guess that I really need to see which process is more likely to occur on a time crunch: a pulled back resignation vs expedited resignation. Either way I am sure that it will have to be a very organized effort with all moving parts notified about the issue before hand.
 
Thanks for posing the question. I'll likely be facing this situation next year.

Good luck, hopefully March 20th is a fantastic day.
 
I am currently navigating this process myself and will be getting out this year. I am an osteopathic residency candidate, went through the normal match for general surgery and was accepted in February. I did my first year at Portsmouth in general surgery and all of the interns my year had to go operational. I have been a flight surgeon for the last 4 years. I was confident in being selected based on the number of interviews I received and my overall reception during the interviews. I started my paperwork in December 2014 had it sent to PERS-8 (which is where our letters go) at the beginning of January 2015 and should have it in hand by this month. The GMO tour to civilian residency is really common and usually pretty standard practice. PERS sees it every year, it's nothing new. Just make sure your command routes it to the right hands. The biggest delay is if they email it to the wrong person and you don't follow up and ensure it was received. Let me know if you have specific questions about this I can give you my number.
 
Fortunately, I matched to residency. I now have a new set of questions in regards to planning my resignation.

I start residency on July 1, 2016 and assume that I will probably have an orientation for a few weeks (let's say starting mid-June) before hand.

My military commitment ends on July 1, 2016...and it will have to in order for me to collect next years Additional Special Pay (ASP) of $15,000.

I am going to have between 60-80 days of leave saved.

Here are my question:
-Will I be able to perform check out in early June 2016...or does it have to be within a certain time of my July 1 resignation?
-I hope to take a month of terminal leave and buy back the rest of my leave...what is the limitation on days I can buy back?
-Do I have to be resignated (after July 1, 2016) before the movers will come and move my stuff to my residency location?

I would greatly appreciate a game plan...Thanks!
 
1) Nope. It's all about how much terminal leave your command will permit. Taking a month (30-31 days) is completely reasonable and within accepted standards, but it will obviously vary.

2) You can sell back up to 60 days for the entirety of your military career. You'll have a maximum of 60 days on 1 October 2015 and you'll accrue another 22.5 between then and 30 June 2016, for a total of 82.5. Subtract your proposed terminal leave and you should be fine, provided that you haven't sold leave back in the past.

3) All you need to set up household good transport is your orders. Your date of resignation or final out don't really have any bearing here provided that you've got your orders. Although if you were to do it too early, then you'd bump into limits on government storage.
 
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If I remember correctly, any leave over 60 days requires O-6 or higher approval. In my last unit, the S1 and BC basically said there was no chance of them even submitting leave packets for over 60 days for that reason. There's no limit to how much leave you can sell back, but the ROI isn't great. Movers will come whenever you schedule them for through JPPSO, but you need to be outprocessing to schedule a meeting with JPPSO, and have your ETS orders in hand, which will only happen 30ish days prior to when you tell your post S1 you expect to begin terminal leave.

Of course I will also caveat all of this by saying this was just the case at JBLM in 2012. Some of these things may vary based on commands, from unit level all the way up to post/division/corps. Your best bet is to look up post regulations, which probably have more accurate answers.
 
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There's definitely a 60 day cap on selling leave. From AR 600-8-10: "There is a 60-day maximum entitlement for payment of unused leave during a military career, except as authorized by Section 501, Title 37 U.S.C., as implemented by the DODFMR."

The timing of your orders will definitely vary, depending on when you start the process and how motivated your HRC/personnel office is. I had my orders in hand 7.5 months before my separation date, and I scheduled my move about two months after that (which was about 4 months before actual pick-up date).
 
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First of all, congratulations (!!), both on matching, and also having a ton of time to get all your admin squared away well ahead of time.

I'll add my two cents to the good tips already posted above.

- You will effectively check out the day your terminal/separation leave begins.

- You will hopefully receive orders sometime in late January / early Feb of next year (I submitted my resignation on 01 July last year,
and I didn't see hard copy orders until that time. (BUPERS is REALLY slow, but we all know that) As soon as you
have your orders, you can go onto move.mil, put in your housing application, and then schedule your visit with the local PPO office. I
would make sure now that your OMPF reflects the correct home of record or location from which you were ordered to active duty,
because that will be where you HHG are authorized to go, lest you pay the difference if you decide to send your stuff elsewhere.

- Thus, your move can take place any time the household goods office can get in contact with a TSP and pack your stuff, and not require
you to be off of active duty.

- Your separation leave will be command-dependent, but 30 days shouldn't be a problem. Once you have orders, you need to find your
command's PS's to calculate the leave you will earn up until your separation date, and talk about selling back leave as well.

- It is notable that MILPERSMAN specifically does not authorize 'house/job hunting' TAD for voluntarily separating officers, but if your
CO is supportive, it may still be possible to get a general no-cost TAD approved. If so, you may be able to get another 7-10 days added
to the leave days you plan on taking. It's worth asking.

- Once you are one year out, start asking what your local requirements will be re: Transition GPS/TAP class, etc. It's nice to get those
out of the way early. Paperwork verifying completion was one of the required items for my PSD to start working on my DD214.

- Start thinking about which G.I. Bill you plan on using (if any), and look into whether your program is on the approved list yet or not.
You won't be able to apply without your DD214, which will probably be sometime in the spring once your separation fitrep is signed
and you have knocked out all the other wickets (separation physical, etc) your PSD will ask for. If your program is not yet approved,
you will have to contact that state's Approving Agency and have your program contact them on arranging a visit from the VA and
start the approval process, which takes several months.

- Submit your resignation on 01 July and be prepared to wait a long time. I went through all of this last year and if you PM me, I can
send you a copy of my resignation paperwork so your admin department doesn't kick it back citing formatting errors or other issues
that will delay PERS in getting it. If your CO is willing, he/she could even sign it ahead of time, then you can submit the package exactly
on 01 July with all formatting complete and accurate.

- Once you submit your resignation, confirm receipt with PERS and your detailer, then hit them up sometime in November-ish to check
on its status.

- Best of luck and congratulations! Enjoy your last year and the money you will make :)

Fortunately, I matched to residency. I now have a new set of questions in regards to planning my resignation.

I start residency on July 1, 2016 and assume that I will probably have an orientation for a few weeks (let's say starting mid-June) before hand.

My military commitment ends on July 1, 2016...and it will have to in order for me to collect next years Additional Special Pay (ASP) of $15,000.

I am going to have between 60-80 days of leave saved.

Here are my question:
-Will I be able to perform check out in early June 2016...or does it have to be within a certain time of my July 1 resignation?
-I hope to take a month of terminal leave and buy back the rest of my leave...what is the limitation on days I can buy back?
-Do I have to be resignated (after July 1, 2016) before the movers will come and move my stuff to my residency location?

I would greatly appreciate a game plan...Thanks!
 
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You can also just do personal procurred move and not deal with scheduling movers via JPPSO process. Ask for advances when going through travel process and then all you'll need to do is email the stuff back to finance with your weight tickets (empty and full weights).

Question- The dates of importance in determining your date of separation are- initial entry on to active duty, the day you sign one of those contracts for special pay, and the date you arrive to your unit. How do those dates effect your resignation/separation date?

Typically it seems that the date you arrive to your unit will be the last date compared to the others. Conus PCS moves incure a 1 year ADSO that would be serve concurrently with your other ADSOs. So does that typically mean that if I PCS to my final duty station in say end of August am I sort of screwed in that using 60 days of terminal leave means I will likely be able to escape from comittment near the end of June just before civillian residency begins?
 
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Typically it seems that the date you arrive to your unit will be the last date compared to the others. Conus PCS moves incure a 1 year ADSO that would be serve concurrently with your other ADSOs. So does that typically mean that if I PCS to my final duty station in say end of August am I sort of screwed in that using 60 days of terminal leave means I will likely be able to escape from comittment near the end of June just before civillian residency begins?

What were the circumstances underwhich you PCS'd <1 year from other contracts expiring? Was this voluntary? Is it something you're contemplating? I have known HRC to "strike deals" with people to get them to undesirable locations and in doing so waive the PCS ADSO.

Otherwise, yes, you'd be relying on the kindheartedness of your local command to grant enough separation leave to get you to residency on time. Unless your residency is okay with you showing up a few weeks late, then I would avoid this situation if at all possible.
 
I haven't PCS'd but will likely need to during my final year of ADSO since I will have been at my current station for 3 years and very unlikely to be granted an extension. I don't think I would be told to PCS in August during my final year of ADSO but figured to ask about the "worst case." I think I would be able to PCS in June or July but am not sure, just trying to assess my options and there consequences.

Is there a way to move the date on your special pay contract-the $15,000 one? Is it that specific day or does it default to beginning/end of the month for saying that it ended? My most recent one was signed in mid July.
 
Are you Army?

Read AR 600-8-24

Your best friend for both routes, getting out in accordance to your ADSO or in case you need to leave early or in worst case recall your separation packet. Good Luck!
 
I haven't PCS'd but will likely need to during my final year of ADSO since I will have been at my current station for 3 years and very unlikely to be granted an extension. I don't think I would be told to PCS in August during my final year of ADSO but figured to ask about the "worst case." I think I would be able to PCS in June or July but am not sure, just trying to assess my options and there consequences.

I would start looking into refusing the orders. My understanding is that you can do this basically one time if it will add time to your ADSO. Ultimately, they can still make you PCS, but I think that enough people will have to start answering enough questions to higher-ups that their lives will get quite uncomfortable. It might be enough to get you an extension. An important thing to remember is that you should not wait until you physically receive orders, because at that point there are legal implications if you don't obey, even if there are sidebar administrative actions that may ultimately lead to those orders being rescinded.

Is there a way to move the date on your special pay contract-the $15,000 one? Is it that specific day or does it default to beginning/end of the month for saying that it ended? My most recent one was signed in mid July.

One July is typically the no-earlier-than date, and it's definitely the no-earlier-than date if you finished your residency/internship on 30 June. Usually, there is a window for you to sign the contract, which includes 30 days after the execution date. So, if you signed mid-July, then the contract dates are probably still 1 July through 30 June. Because you can't be under two MASP contracts simultaneously, then the one you sign this summer will almost certainly carry you through 30 June 2016.
 
I'm now about a month away from getting my resignation process initiated. I'm a little bit antsy about the process. I would greatly appreciate it if anyone who has been through the process can help.

I understand that I am going to have to forward a few letters to SECNAV. The three documents include:
-Unqualified resignation from active duty
-First endorsement for unqualified resignation from active duty
-Reason for submission of request

Does that look right? Have any of you had difficulty getting the Navy to place you on Individual Ready Review, and have you or someone you known been recalled onto active duty while on individual ready reserve? Obviously...that would be disaster with a civilian residency program locked up.
 
I am Navy and just resigned. I go on terminal leave on the 29th to start my general surgery residency.

Talk to your detailer. They will have all the documents you need to submit that request as well as templates to make it easier on you. They will also have a point of contact for you to submit those documents to PERs. Your command will review your request and then your admin department will route it. YOU MUST FOLLOW UP. My admin department is solid, but they messed this up, it went to the wrong inbox somewhere and disappeared. Luckily I was following up daily to make sure this didn't happen and was able to navigate it into the right hands. You also need to write a brief reason why you are getting out as you mentioned above.

Your request will go through the "chop chain". Which is basically all the different departments at PERS to make sure your eligible to leave, you have no unpaid debt to the Navy financially, etc. You will get no correspondance from PERS. Usually you have a YN1 that will be your go to person for updates who can see in the system and how it is being routed.

I submitted mine in December and received it in March. My buddy did his in Jan and has yet to receive it. Earlier is better, follow up.

IRR is standard and you will be assigned a reserve liason once your request is submitted. He will help you fill out all the necessary paper work. The likelihood of you getting called out of IRR is low. There hasn't been a case of the IRR for medical corps Navy in the past 30 years from my understanding. I would not sweat this.

If you would like to know about TMS/Stipend/LRP which are programs you can get into as a reservist specifically designed for civilian residency bound physicians I am happy to share that with you. It is a good amount of money and if you want to keep your feet in the military waters, not a bad way to go.

That should answer your questions. Good luck.
 
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PM'd you, but the three documents are correct, as is all the information in the post above mine.

I submitted mine last July and didn't get my orders until late January, so it'll take a while. As stated above, your detailer can give you the updated point of contact for the individual at PERS who will know the status of your resignation request, since your detailer won't really have his/her hand in the pot with the exception of arranging for your backfill. This should be the same individual that you can send an encrypted email to with all your documents signed and ready. They didn't asked my admin for a paper copy, and allowed me to send it myself via NMCI.
 
Great information. Thanks a ton. I was curious about the GI Bill. I am heading to Rochester, MN...where the BAH is low, so doing the math...the MGIB gives a significantly better pay out.

I was wondering if any of you have heard about the Voc Rehab for residency. I have a decent chance of qualifying for at least 10% disability and am very interested in all of my options.
 
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