Retail after Residency

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pharmdarling

pharmdarling

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There has been a fair amount of discussion in the past regarding pharmacists applying for residencies after working in retail. I’m curious as to whether anybody here has any experience completing a residency and then transitioning to a retail career.

A little background: I graduated from pharmacy school in 2013. I worked as a tech in a chain and as an intern in a grocery store pharmacy during school. I just completed a PGY-1 residency at a mid-sized community hospital affiliated with both medical and pharmacy schools. My residency was completely inpatient-focused; my hospital does not have pharmacist involvement in many ambulatory care services.

Like many new pharmacy school or residency graduates, I have not found a permanent position. Like many others, I am also somewhat geographically restricted.

I have been searching for and applying to jobs since late January. I originally applied to only hospital jobs. I had several that called, but it didn’t end up working out because they needed to hire someone then, not 6 months from then. I have since interviewed for three hospital positions with zero offers (typically due to them hiring their own residents, which is completely understandable).

At this point, there are not any hospital positions available in my area of interest. I will be staying on at my current hospital (full-time per diem) for the next ~8 weeks, so I am hoping that as we start to get past the “it’s July and every pharmacy school graduate and residency grad is looking for a job!!!” period, something might open up. However, I’m starting to consider that it might be time to start seriously applying to retail jobs, as my biggest concern is finishing out my time here, being out of a job, and being unable to make my hefty loan payments. While I obviously prefer working in a hospital, my work is not my entire life, and I am fine doing something less than ideal if it means that I am working.

So, these are my questions: Has anybody taken this route? If so, how was the transition? Is there anything that I can do to make retail pharmacies take my application seriously? (For example, I can see them discounting a residency grad because “they only have hospital experience as a pharmacist” or “they will leave as soon as they get a hospital job”).
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I have worked hospital basically since graduation. I, like you, am geographically restricted and have to drive just over an hour each way for work at the hospital I am at currently. While I would prefer to stay in my clinical role, the pay has been less than ideal and the stress very high with working so far away from where I live. My wife and I eventually decided we needed our lives back and that I needed to find something closer (she too has a hour and a half drive to work!). So, I started applying to retail chains (I do have retail experience) and have not had one look...not even an interview. It's getting to the point now where we are considering moving, which really isn't ideal for us. I'd also love to hear comments on this subject.
 
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I'm really sorry to hear about your situation - it must be incredibly frustrating. Programs have a vested interest in making sure their residents get jobs which reflect the skills they acquired during training and you can bet no inpatient residency would want to tell prospective candidates their last resident took a job in retail. Also, if they are keeping you on per diem it likely means they consider you "hireable" (sounds bad but I have seen residents who were difficult to work with get passed over for multiple internal positions).

Unless retail is the route you are hoping to go, I would try and stick it out at the hospital as long as possible. Positions pop up all the time and as an internal candidate you would be one of the first to hear about them. Also it will keep you in close contact with your program director/coordinator who may hear about opportunities at neighboring institutions. You have a position until at least July - I don't know about your hospital but here people are taking vacations well through September - they may be able to continue to keep you on per diem, even if it's just part time.

I would keep actively pursuing anything that interests you but don't necessarily jump straight to retail (unless again, it is a direction you see yourself going). I would agree with your thought that a chain may look at your CV and think "they are going to leave as soon as a hospital position opens up" (and one eventually will). With the increasing number of unemployed pharmacists (both new grads and experienced) chains can now be choosey about who they consider a good investment in terms of training and longevity.

Try not to be discouraged. Something will pop up.
 
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What area is this?

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LovenoxAQ said:
Programs have a vested interest in making sure their residents get jobs which reflect the skills they acquired during training and you can bet no inpatient residency would want to tell prospective candidates their last resident took a job in retail.
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Interestingly enough, I asked the question "Where have your residency graduates gone after they completed your program?" at all of my interviews, and I was told that one person did go into retail at the site that I am at now. However, this was back 10-15 years ago when jobs were widely available, and this individual simply decided that hospital was not for him. I can't disrespect that because I think a large part of a residency program is deciding what you want in a career, and there is no shame in deciding that you'd prefer to do something else. Of course, there's a big difference between going into retail because it's what you really want and because it's your only option!

LovenoxAQ said:
Also, if they are keeping you on per diem it likely means they consider you "hireable" (sounds bad but I have seen residents who were difficult to work with get passed over for multiple internal positions).

Unless retail is the route you are hoping to go, I would try and stick it out at the hospital as long as possible. Positions pop up all the time and as an internal candidate you would be one of the first to hear about them. Also it will keep you in close contact with your program director/coordinator who may hear about opportunities at neighboring institutions. You have a position until at least July - I don't know about your hospital but here people are taking vacations well through September - they may be able to continue to keep you on per diem, even if it's just part time.
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Also, I did forget to mention that I moved away for residency, as I thought it would be more beneficial to my career/open up more doors in the long run. My current hospital is not located where I would like to be, but I am more than happy to stay here as I look for options closer to home. I'm still unsure about if I really want to do retail - I think there are some retail positions that I would enjoy (independent/grocery store), but obviously at this time of year, the only place that is hiring where I am looking is CVS.

Fushi.tarazu said:
What area is this?
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Midwest.

If anybody has any tips on getting interviews in retail after coming out of hospital/residency, please share! In my experience, most of the people who have done this have only done it as a per diem or part-time side job, and they got it because their parent/relative/neighbor/etc happened to be the manager at the retail place.
 
Update: Applied for Walmart and received a rejection email within 12 hours, stating that I should look for positions that "align with my unique qualifications."

When transitioning from one setting to another, is it better to leave off information from your resume/CV? For example, a co-worker told me that his wife (not a pharmacist) kept getting rejections because all of her experience was in one area, but as soon as she took that information off her resume, she got many more interviews. I'm not sure if this is an approach I should try or even how to do so, as it would probably look worse if it appeared that I hadn't been working at all versus working in a hospital only.
 
Well, since we have had these rural hospital threads lately…what about applying to one of those? Especially since you said you are in the midwest. We had a residency trained pharmacist apply for a position and would have loved to have had her as a hire. Though at the time I was thinking there was no way we were going to get a residency trained pharmacist at our little hospital.

But since you're having trouble finding a job anyway, is it something you have considered? It sounds like you are applying to larger hospitals only (since you said they are hiring their own residents).
 
pharmdarling said:
Update: Applied for Walmart and received a rejection email within 12 hours, stating that I should look for positions that "align with my unique qualifications."
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Wow, they didn't mince words, did they?

When transitioning from one setting to another, is it better to leave off information from your resume/CV? For example, a co-worker told me that his wife (not a pharmacist) kept getting rejections because all of her experience was in one area, but as soon as she took that information off her resume, she got many more interviews. I'm not sure if this is an approach I should try or even how to do so, as it would probably look worse if it appeared that I hadn't been working at all versus working in a hospital only.
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Maybe, but not if its going to leave large working gaps which can't be explained (which as a new grad, it probably wouldn't.) For instance, when I've applied for hospital jobs, I left off my experience working as retail technician and my minimal PRN retail pharmacist experience, as it was a small part of my resume & inapplicable. When I applied for a retail job after several years of not working retail, I added in and highlighted my retail technician experience and PRN pharmacist stuff, and cut out some of the detail of duties from my hospital experience. In other words, a resume should always be edited for the particular job you are applying for, to showcase your experience/knowledge in that area. So, if you have any experience in retail (maybe during your rotations?) you really want to highlight this. If there is anything you did during your residency that would be helpful in retail, be sure to highlight this (like did you do any kind of medication teaching classes or discharge counseling? Outpatient clinics?) If you are CPR or APHA vaccination certified, be sure to highlight this, as this would be helpful in retail. No matter how minor the experience, highlight it.

As for handling questions if you get an interview, such as why do you want to go into retail. Find a positive in any pharmacy experience you've had that would be helpful in retail and talk about why you've enjoyed that. Like if you've done a teaching class (it wouldn't even have to be to patients, it could be a teaching class you did for nurses or students), then highlight how you really enjoy teaching people things, and that you would like to be able to teach patients things one-on-one in retail.
 
I know, right? Based on how quick the response came, I thought perhaps it was a position that they already had a candidate for. I have a fair amount of recent retail experience (although only as tech and intern and not as pharmacist), so I thought I at least had a chance of being considered for an interview, but I guess not. Thanks so much for the input! I will definitely take those points into consideration when applying for future jobs.
 
Someone with a PGY-1 residency applying for a retail job is as big of a red flag as it gets. No one is going to hire you unless you sweet talk them during an interview if you're lucky to get one. Why would a retail chain hire someone who is just going to leave in 6 months?
 
It's not even July yet...most PGY-1's are going to be per-diem kings and queens for the next few months. Welcome to the new normal.

Try and find another per-diem hospital job, stitch them together, and enjoy the per-diem differential.

Don't bother with retail, it's obvious they're an employer of last resort.
 
pharmdarling said:
Interestingly enough, I asked the question "Where have your residency graduates gone after they completed your program?" at all of my interviews, and I was told that one person did go into retail at the site that I am at now. However, this was back 10-15 years ago when jobs were widely available, and this individual simply decided that hospital was not for him. I can't disrespect that because I think a large part of a residency program is deciding what you want in a career, and there is no shame in deciding that you'd prefer to do something else. Of course, there's a big difference between going into retail because it's what you really want and because it's your only option!



Also, I did forget to mention that I moved away for residency, as I thought it would be more beneficial to my career/open up more doors in the long run. My current hospital is not located where I would like to be, but I am more than happy to stay here as I look for options closer to home. I'm still unsure about if I really want to do retail - I think there are some retail positions that I would enjoy (independent/grocery store), but obviously at this time of year, the only place that is hiring where I am looking is CVS.

Midwest.

If anybody has any tips on getting interviews in retail after coming out of hospital/residency, please share! In my experience, most of the people who have done this have only done it as a per diem or part-time side job, and they got it because their parent/relative/neighbor/etc happened to be the manager at the retail place.
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Not sure where in the Midwest you are, but have you tried Kansas City, MO? I believe there is a hospital there that was hiring a pretty large handful of pharmacists. Not sure if they still are, but worth a try. Sorry I don't have more information. This info was coming from a person that was moving there after completing a PGY-2, but I didn't ask for details at the time.
 
Tink14 said:
Not sure where in the Midwest you are, but have you tried Kansas City, MO? I believe there is a hospital there that was hiring a pretty large handful of pharmacists. Not sure if they still are, but worth a try. Sorry I don't have more information. This info was coming from a person that was moving there after completing a PGY-2, but I didn't ask for details at the time.
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Kansas City has three pharmacy schools in the region (University of MO at KC, University of MO at Columbia, University of KS) plus all the overflow from St. Louis and multiple hospitals with residency programs. That market is as bad as it gets for new pharmacy school/residency grads.

Take mustang sally's advice and go for a rural area. And don't waste your time with retail - I know from personal experience that having done a residency will get your resume sent straight to the DM's trash can.
 
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Dalteparin said:
Kansas City has three pharmacy schools in the region (University of MO at KC, University of MO at Columbia, University of KS) plus all the overflow from St. Louis and multiple hospitals with residency programs. That market is as bad as it gets for new pharmacy school/residency grads.

Take mustang sally's advice and go for a rural area. And don't waste your time with retail - I know from personal experience that having done a residency will get your resume sent straight to the DM's trash can.
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If they've done a residency they wouldn't be competing with new grads though. I'm sure that the market is going to be rough in any metro area, but it's worth a try if a health system is expanding a ton and ALL they want is 10-15 residency trained pharmacists. Of course there is probably at least that many residents who just "graduated" their respective programs in the city or nearby, but some of them may be staying on with their current hospital OR leaving the city to go back where they came from (hometown, different state, spouse got a job elsewhere, etc).

I know the chances are better with rural places, but I'm a firm believer if you want to stay in a big city you should at least try a few options first. For all I know maybe they had no luck with some of these places, but I figured I'd pass on what I heard. It is just hearsay after all. Of course you don't want to wait until you're in a bad situation to start looking at rural areas, but I do think persistence has the chance to pay off if that's what you really want.
 
Tink14 said:
If they've done a residency they wouldn't be competing with new grads though. I'm sure that the market is going to be rough in any metro area, but it's worth a try if a health system is expanding a ton and ALL they want is 10-15 residency trained pharmacists. Of course there is probably at least that many residents who just "graduated" their respective programs in the city or nearby, but some of them may be staying on with their current hospital OR leaving the city to go back where they came from (hometown, different state, spouse got a job elsewhere, etc).
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Where are you getting the idea that any hospital has the ability to hire 10-15 residency trained pharmacists in this market? Maybe they have openings for one or two, but those are automatically snapped up by their graduating residents. Trust me, I've been looking for jobs lately; no hospital is hiring that many pharmacists! If a hospital has more than two or three openings, that's a lot. (I am employed, just looking to relocate.)

We'd all like to think that residents won't be competing with new grads, but the reality is that if you only have a PGY-1, you may find yourself competing with a new grad who the DOP knows, and since he's a new grad, they can get away with paying him a lower salary than they would pay you. Guess who's going to get the job? (Spoiler alert: It's not you.)

tl;dr: If you're looking for a job, go where the openings are, and I am sorry to say that they are not in big cities.
 
UCSF is hiring 10-15 pediatrics trained pharmacists at the moment. PGY-2 preferred, PGY-1 acceptable.
 
confettiflyer said:
UCSF is hiring 10-15 pediatrics trained pharmacists at the moment. PGY-2 preferred, PGY-1 acceptable.
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Do you work at UCSF? I am going to probably be volunteering there soon. Wondering if they have staff pharmacist positions without a PGY1 requirements
 
confettiflyer said:
You're missing out!

Except for, you know, the ridonkulous cost of housing.
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..and state income tax. o_O:eek:

State%20income%20tax%20rates_2.png
 
confettiflyer said:
Worth every penny, I assure you.

Aka because...you don't have to pay the neighborhood teenager money to shovel sunshine off your driveway!
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Want to buy some more sun shine from us? We'll sell it cheap! Heck, take some for free, please.
 
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Damn, Lebron James state income tax just went up by 5.392%
 
I thought I would post an update in the event that someone finds themself in a similar situation and stumbles across this thread.

I stayed at the hospital for ~12 weeks following the completion of my residency. I was offered a permanent position, but I decided that I would rather be closer to home (due to personal/family circumstances) and take a less than ideal job than have a better job but be farther away. I took a job in retail in a rural area. Not exactly where I wanted to be, but it was a lot closer.

I worked at the retail store for between 3-4 months, and was offered a hospital position - in my preferred clinical specialty, in the major metropolitan area of my choice.

If another residency grad ends up in a similar situation, here's my two cents:
1) It was difficult to get an interview in retail and present myself as being a good candidate for the position for the reasons outlined in earlier posts. In my interviews, I tried to demonstrate that while I enjoyed hospital, I missed the patient interactions and relationships that are built through community practice (even it if wasn't necessarily 100% true).
2) In hospital interviews while I was working retail, the interviewers gave feedback that leaving hospital for a brief time to be closer to family while looking for a better job wasn't necessarily a bad thing. It's better to work retail while looking for the job you really want than say, spending that time making frappucinos at Starbucks.
3) My retail position was as pharmacy manager, so I was able to discuss many of the management experiences I had during interviews. Again, I received feedback that this helped make me a better candidate, even if the experience was in a different setting.

Hopefully this is helpful for someone in the future.
 
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God bless not having an income tax. More money in my pocket to invest.
 
i think its sad that its so difficult to move from retail to hospital and vice versa. one of the best pharmacists we have at my hospital worked in retail for many years, he is so great because he's always in the nursing units interacting with the nurses, answering their questions, etc....hes really popular. the other pharmacists hide in the satellite and watch youtube all day. once in a while when they are required to do warfarin discharge counseling, they are really awkward.....
 
pharmdarling said:
I thought I would post an update in the event that someone finds themself in a similar situation and stumbles across this thread.

I stayed at the hospital for ~12 weeks following the completion of my residency. I was offered a permanent position, but I decided that I would rather be closer to home (due to personal/family circumstances) and take a less than ideal job than have a better job but be farther away. I took a job in retail in a rural area. Not exactly where I wanted to be, but it was a lot closer.

I worked at the retail store for between 3-4 months, and was offered a hospital position - in my preferred clinical specialty, in the major metropolitan area of my choice.

If another residency grad ends up in a similar situation, here's my two cents:
1) It was difficult to get an interview in retail and present myself as being a good candidate for the position for the reasons outlined in earlier posts. In my interviews, I tried to demonstrate that while I enjoyed hospital, I missed the patient interactions and relationships that are built through community practice (even it if wasn't necessarily 100% true).
2) In hospital interviews while I was working retail, the interviewers gave feedback that leaving hospital for a brief time to be closer to family while looking for a better job wasn't necessarily a bad thing. It's better to work retail while looking for the job you really want than say, spending that time making frappucinos at Starbucks.
3) My retail position was as pharmacy manager, so I was able to discuss many of the management experiences I had during interviews. Again, I received feedback that this helped make me a better candidate, even if the experience was in a different setting.

Hopefully this is helpful for someone in the future.
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This is why in the future retail chains won't hire residency trained RPhs. Because of what you did. And I personally don't blame you, you owed them nothing but the time you exchanged your labor for money, but now they have to re-hire, train, etc.

No residency trained RPh ever wants to work retail.
 
awval999 said:
This is why in the future retail chains won't hire residency trained RPhs. Because of what you did. And I personally don't blame you, you owed them nothing but the time you exchanged your labor for money, but now they have to re-hire, train, etc.

No residency trained RPh ever wants to work retail.
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I was about to say the same thing, this situation just reinforces the hunch/suspicion that retail managers will have when evaluating an inpatient/residency trained pharmacist.

Oh well, good on ya for ending up in a good situation!
 
pharmasaur said:
i think its sad that its so difficult to move from retail to hospital and vice versa. one of the best pharmacists we have at my hospital worked in retail for many years, he is so great because he's always in the nursing units interacting with the nurses, answering their questions, etc....hes really popular. the other pharmacists hide in the satellite and watch youtube all day. once in a while when they are required to do warfarin discharge counseling, they are really awkward.....
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Hospital doesn't block YouTube? So glad I don't work with any of those pharmacists, would drive me bat **** crazy.
 
retail is not the end, n CVS is your stepping stone. step on it! step all over it! i know 2 pharmacist manager at CVS that went on to working for FDA. n a few other staffs went on to Kaiser. so don't think its the end of the road, but merely a beginning. get a job in retail, get experience, and move on. CVS doesn't want you to stay. customers don't like u either. so step on it!
 
confettiflyer said:
Ours doesn't either but every now and then IT has to remote access the machine to do something.

I just use my phone anyway, haha.
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Lol, that's why I just forward my company phone to my personal phone. I work hard, but better safe than sorry. Also saves me the trouble of carrying 2 phones like some nerd.

PS, on my life as an LTAC DOP, hospital care is substandard, but damn the money is good... I would have to give up $10-20k/yr if I went back to a community hospital DOP... golden handcuffs.
 
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