Retake with New MCAT or become IMG/FMG?

[PositronicBrain]

SDN I am in a pickle.
I'm a few years out of college, with a healthy dose of life, clinical and volunteer experience added onto my person. I took the MCAT in 2013 and got a 29 (VR and BS were good but PS brought me down) I was consistently scoring a few points higher on practice tests, self studied, and did not exhaust all the resources available for test prep.
I applied this year to many MD and DO programs and the Medical School of International Health (MSIH) an IMG program that I am excited about (except for the IMG aspect)
I am still waiting to hear from DOs, but have been accepted to MSIH. Should I accept and become an IMG with a likely chance of matching but with limited options, or should I retake with the new MCAT and apply again? (this is my first time applying and I was foolishly late in the game)

Also worth noting, I am pretty sure I want to go into Primary care, although, I would like to keep my options open if possible.
Also, I have never taken the psych and soc pre reqs for the new MCAT.

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[Law2Doc]

Retake. Odds are never as pretty as an IMG if your goal is to practice here.
But be honest with yourself as to whether this is the only thing you need to fix. Lots of people squeak in with a 29, so I'd worry that wasn't the only anchor holding you up.

 

[NonTrad16]

Were you interviewed at any programs or... A total bust? If you were interviewed at any DO programs, did you follow up? From what I've heard on here, it seems some appreciate those who show continued interest. 29 seems more than adequate for many programs so, and it would save a lot of pain to not have to study for the new test...

No one on here will advocate for the FMG route.

 

[MightBeACylon439]

I would not retake a 29 MCAT. What is your GPA, is it on the lower side? You could take some classes to get the GPA up. How about your shadowing and EC's? You could improve that.

Next year reapply (go heavier w/DO's, you are a shoe-in with the 29 MCAT if you apply early) and have some good examples as to how you improved your application year over year.

 

[Snivellus]

Are you me? I have the same exact dilemma as you. Seriously.

I am probably going to go to MSIH. But, part of me wonders if it'd be better to try and apply again for US med schools. I got the same MCAT as you, and I applied to schools very late in the game. I think I'd have a better chance if I applied early.

Then again, I don't want to go through the hassle of applying again...

 

[Goro]

1000% agree.

Retake. Odds are never as pretty as an IMG if your goal is to practice here.
But be honest with yourself as to whether this is the only thing you need to fix. Lots of people squeak in with a 29, so I'd worry that wasn't the only anchor holding you up.

 

[PositronicBrain]

I definitely am g had a 3.5 GPA 3.4 science GPA. And I think the late applications(for MD and DO), and the fact that my experience as a medical scribe (and the LOR that were written from it) were too late for my MD apps really hurt me. My ECs though are pretty good, volunteer teaching abroad, volunteer EMT, paid CNA, paid EM scribe at present. Worked in several labs in undergrad and did a year long research project in cell biology senior year.
I suppose the main advice I could use are
1) The real cons of being a FMG (I know I have to work harder to get the same results as a US MD and wont be eligible for things like plastics or ortho)
2) How different the new MCAT is from the old one. My old MCAT score wont be valid if I apply again so I would have no choice if I want to reapply but to start grinding on the MCAT prep immediately.

Thank you every one for your responses. This is a big decision to make. Even though I think I want to go into primary care, I'm leaning towards reapplying, as long as I feel I can do well enough on a repeat MCAT.
Glad to hear from you Snivellus! I couldn't believe this discussion wasn't already on the forums, but I couldn't find one anywhere.

 

[ConfusedChemist]

wait....why not retake the MCAT?
You said PS brought you down, thats the part they've essentially removed.....
Most people won't have soc/psyc, but that's what prep books are for right?

 

[Prettywoman0172]

wait....why not retake the MCAT?
You said PS brought you down, thats the part they've essentially removed.....
Most people won't have soc/psyc, but that's what prep books are for right?

Sorry to hijack the thread...but I honestly dont think that physical science has been "essentially removed" and it bothers me when people say that almost as much as "Psych? Why do we need psych? Im not even going to study for that."

Rant over. Sorry again, OP.

 

[ConfusedChemist]

Sorry to hijack the thread...but I honestly dont think that physical science has been "essentially removed" and it bothers me when people say that almost as much as "Psych? Why do we need psych? Im not even going to study for that."

Rant over. Sorry again, OP.

well physics is now worth 12% of the exam....so yeah I'd say its been fairly close to removed.
I also didn't say don't study, but psych is more like bio in that reading the information is generally enough to master the material, and tends to be easier to self-teach than physics for most premed students, who are more adapted to memory-based classes, like this poster appears to be.

 

[Cawolf]

well physics is now worth 12% of the exam....so yeah I'd say its been fairly close to removed.

How is going from 16.7% of the exam to 12% "fairly close to removed"?

 

[ConfusedChemist]

How is going from 16.7% of the exam to 12% "fairly close to removed"?

haha it felt like more...
Just trying to reassure someone who seemed worried.
All they said originally was that their PS score brought them down, but PS appears to be worth less on the new exam and I personally was just pointing out that if PS is their weakness, maybe the new exam will work more in their favour and not to stress!

 

[sia_simba]

If you have the chance of going to a US Medical School, whether it be MD or DO, I would take the year off and give it a shot. Becoming an IMG makes it hard to match. In the 2015 match, you can look through the NRMP, US Med grads matched about 95%, DO grads matched 79%, and IMG matched about 55% into Allopathic positions in the US.

This is not considering the AOA match which is separate for DOs. I don't have the numbers for that.

1/2 of all the IMG students that rotates through my hospital will probably never get a position. With that being said, $200k loan and no residency. It will definitely be a sad story.

There are in my opinion after dealing with hundreds of IMGs students, St.George's and Ross are reputable. I've never dealt with any students from MSIH, so I can't comment on that school.

Of note, one of my cousin skipped one year, worked at Macy's department store, got into a US MD school the following year, finished IM at UC Davis, and finished her fellowship in endocrinology.

Another one of my cousin skipped one year after getting rejected, did some research, reapplied, got into a US MD school, and is a 3rd year resident in Neurology. I believe she got a 28 on her first MCAT attempt and then a 34 on her second attempt.

Good luck!

 

[Snivellus]

I would have no problem retaking the MCAT and applying again. The thing is that the MCAT just changed, and I do not think I have adequate time to prepare for taking this new exam. I never even took some of the material that is being tested on the new MCAT.

 

[Law2Doc]

...and I do not think I have adequate time to prepare for taking this new exam...

Unless you have some terminal disease, you have as much time as it takes. This isn't a race and there's no set schedule for med school. If you won't be prepared this year, take it next year. The one thing that should be obvious on the nontrad board is that there is no clock here -- you can go to med school at 21 or 41. There's always plenty of time to fix things and do it right. The people who rush off without adequate preparation for a test or think they've found a shortcut offshore always end up getting burned.

 

[Snivellus]

You are correct. I meant I do not have adequate time to prepare for the MCAT if I want to apply for this summer. I have no intention of taking another 2 years before starting medical school.

 

[hopefuldoc97239]

In the 2015 residency match US citizens who graduated from international medical schools had only a 53.1% success rate for matching into a US residency.

You might have more tolerance for risk than I do, but to me going $350,000 into debt for a 50-50 chance of paying it off sounds like a horrible idea.

And if you're saying to yourself, "I won't be one of the ones who doesn't match, if I can just get in I know I'll match, once I'm in medical school I'll really be able to shine," -- that's pride talking. Everyone else in your class is also hoping the same thing.

 

[Snivellus]

http://www.cumc.columbia.edu/dept/msih/ps/residency_planning.html

 

[deleted547631]

http://www.cumc.columbia.edu/dept/msih/ps/residency_planning.html

With a Match rate at 97% for the class of 2014, I'm gonna go against the grain and say that attending MSIH would be a legit opportunity to be able to practice medicine if you're adamantly against osteopathy and don't want to have a degree from the Caribbean. I know one of the 2014 Psych MSIH matches and she's doing just fine - she said her experience living abroad in that environment, learning a new language, etc provided a very meaningful experience. Her training at the program was top-notch.

 

[Goro]

Not pride but magic thinking. Didn't work very well on Steve Jobs' cancer.

And if you're saying to yourself, "I won't be one of the ones who doesn't match, if I can just get in I know I'll match, once I'm in medical school I'll really be able to shine," -- that's pride talking. Everyone else in your class is also hoping the same thing.

 

[MrLogan13]

You are correct. I meant I do not have adequate time to prepare for the MCAT if I want to apply for this summer. I have no intention of taking another 2 years before starting medical school.

It's either taking the time and becoming a competitive applicant, or rushing for no reason and rolling the dice with your future. In the long run, what's another year?

 

[Law2Doc]

With a Match rate at 97% for the class of 2014, I'm gonna go against the grain and say that attending MSIH would be a legit opportunity to be able to practice medicine if you're adamantly against osteopathy and don't want to have a degree from the Caribbean. I know one of the 2014 Psych MSIH matches and she's doing just fine - she said her experience living abroad in that environment, learning a new language, etc provided a very meaningful experience. Her training at the program was top-notch.

First, a 97% match rate isn't nessarilly the same as "97% of those who entered the match" matching someplace. Wording is everything here. Did a lot of fourth years not enter the match? Is the 97% a number based on cherry picking? What's the attrition, what percentage of the class actually applied for the match, how many people who went this route already had significnt connections to help them into a residency slot, and how many of this matches were dead end prelims that might not lead to career. Lots of places are going to try to sucker you. It cannot be denied that US grads do better than foreign med school grads, by a lot. And the chasm gets bigger each year. No place is going to advertise that they probably can't get everyone a residency. So take everything offered by an offshore school with a big grain of salt. Is this option better then the Caribbean? Maybe. But that like saying you want to eat the least rotten sandwich -- it's still rotten compared to the US path.

 

[GypsyHummus]

When did you apply? Like in December?

Your stats could have netted you a DO acceptance no problem, and you could have squeezed into an MD program as well. What happened?

I definitely am g had a 3.5 GPA 3.4 science GPA. And I think the late applications(for MD and DO), and the fact that my experience as a medical scribe (and the LOR that were written from it) were too late for my MD apps really hurt me. My ECs though are pretty good, volunteer teaching abroad, volunteer EMT, paid CNA, paid EM scribe at present. Worked in several labs in undergrad and did a year long research project in cell biology senior year.
I suppose the main advice I could use are
1) The real cons of being a FMG (I know I have to work harder to get the same results as a US MD and wont be eligible for things like plastics or ortho)
2) How different the new MCAT is from the old one. My old MCAT score wont be valid if I apply again so I would have no choice if I want to reapply but to start grinding on the MCAT prep immediately.

Thank you every one for your responses. This is a big decision to make. Even though I think I want to go into primary care, I'm leaning towards reapplying, as long as I feel I can do well enough on a repeat MCAT.
Glad to hear from you Snivellus! I couldn't believe this discussion wasn't already on the forums, but I couldn't find one anywhere.

 

[PositronicBrain]

I didn't apply DO until AFTER December (terrible mistake there) and my MD secondary apps didn't all get sent off until around November (also a terrible mistake)
I definitely appreciate what everyone is saying about the risk.
As I see it, retaking the MCAT and taking on additional year(s) before school can be a great opportunity if you get the right job in the right town (medical scribe in NYC = unsustainable) but it can also mean potentially getting stuck in an unrelated job just to pay the bills. For those of us who have taken a gap year that has turned into gap years, getting the kind of medical experience I want in my work (and being pain for it) is difficult without a MD (or DO)
MSIH looks like a great school and an amazing experience (for those whose who thrive on that kind of lifestyle) but puts one at risk for residency. Being a FMG means working harder on the boards, and essentially turning a blind eye towards any popular specialties. I work in a residency program now and see how hard some FMG had to work to get into the same residency as US grads who took it relatively easy.
What makes the decision hard, for myself and probably many other nontrads / people applying to MSIH, is that my goals right now don't require a competitive residency, meaning I could start school, be a FMG and still likely get a primary care residency (call it pride or magic thinking but it does not seem too far a stretch from my conversations with residents and attendings in academic medicine) Its easy to consider this the "less prideful" path that gets me to my goals quicker by forsaking the high profile specialties.
Really though, being a US grad and being able to choose one's residency of choice is not just about pride. Its about getting a great education, establishing a network of colleagues to work with in practice, and being able to find one's preferred nitch in medicine. I don't know which way I'll go and probably wont until the day I have to either decline or accept MSIH.
Until then, my plan is to take time off work and study for the MCAT. How I am doing on practice exams when decision-making-time rolls around will hopefully make me more confident about choosing to reapply or go now.
Sorry for the lengthy response but hopefully some other people find something in it for themselves too.

 

[TheShowGoesOn]

Do not go IMG unless you absolutely have to in order to pursue your dream of becoming a physician.

When I first decided to embark on this journey to become a doctor I was set on IMG because of the ease of acceptance. Through researching the many threads in SDN I have came to the conclusion that there is always hope. Create a detailed plan for success and build upon what you may have been lacking in this first matching attempt. Your stats are sufficient, it seems like applying earlier and maybe to a more diverse range of schools would have benefited your situation. Good luck!

 

[RealMacaw]

What residents and attendings tell you is probably based on the situation when they applied, i.e. a few years ago, and not now.

Things seem to be changing rapidly for IMGs, and not for the better. US grads are still vastly preferred for residencies (rightly or wrongly) and their match rates are pretty steady. On the other hand, the number of IMGs applying also increases every year but slots are stagnant, so they are all fighting over fewer positions.

Take a close look this page, especially Figure 1 and Figure 4:
http://scepticemia.com/2013/01/08/the-usa-dream-for-imgs-coming-to-an-end-analysing-the-2012-match/

You need to ask yourself if you are comfortable with those odds? Which will possibly be worse four years from now.

Do you test well - will you realistically get above average boards?

Do you want your entire career to depend on beating out at least 50% of your peers?

If you apply next round as early as possible, your odds are probably good with your stats. I also applied very late and got lucky - I got into a school which makes it a point not to fill all their seats early in the cycle. But every other school was a no. For most schools, I think timing definitely makes a difference.

 

[j4pac]

Unless there is a red flag that I am missing...you are very likely to get multiple IIs from DO and maybe a handful of USMD programs with your stats. You just need to apply smartly and very early in the season. Do NOT go IMG. Anyone who tells you any different are trying to sabotage you. Seriously. Look at SOAP forums from the past few years...filled with IMGs applying to over a hundred primary care residencies with the hope of getting a crap residency. Seriously...they are trying to sabotage you.