Retirement Plans offered by AMCs

[aneftp]

My issue with academics is the paltry vacation time. I've not seen any places with more than 4 weeks off (and 2 for CME). I don't feel like I take a lot of vacation, but I would need more than 4 weeks.

I can verify the $5k flat for Sheridan. I talked with them for awhile about a few positions. There were several deal breakers, but that was one.

The USAP site I spoke with didn't offer anything toward retirement year one (and the employee couldn't contribute either....never heard of that before so I thought there may be some confusion) but year 2 was allegedly $30k+ on the employer side if the employee maxed their contribution. Again, there were deal breakers so I didn't pursue things further. It has been awhile since I talked with both groups, so things may have changed.

I think the bottom line with AMCs is the retirement isn't great, the daily schedule isn't great, the autonomy of the group isn't great, the salary may not be great, the vacation isn't great, they are crawling with CRNAs, and they really should be considered last resort or a "patch" between one job and another for most people.

Agree AMCs (in general aren't great). Depends how the practice is structure. My friends group sold out to Mednax a long time and they have never posted an ad on gas work because they simply have very low turnover. A few original partners left or retired after the 5 year period. Maybe they are the rare AMC since it was a friendly "merger". So Mednax lets them run things on a local level and if they need to increase staffing they go through the financials sheets to make it work.

Academic places on vacation time can kinda of suck (on paper).

But that's "on paper"

Depending on the institution. I was a state employee. So got 24 days vacation plus 2 weeks of cme.

But here is the kicker. It comes with 12 paid sick days no questions asked. So if ur kid is sick, so spouse is sick. I can take the day off.

Plus sick days accumulate. So the women MD who were prego and esp the CRNA prego. Especially those there for 3 plus years and they plan it. That's 36 days paid for pregnancy leave/sick leave. PLUS their normal accumulated vacation.

In private practice. Many place lump sick days with vacation days. They don't give u a comp day for holidays either.

So that 4-5 weeks of paid vacation plus cme plus paid sick leave that accumulates plus holidays (add fact u can take random 1-2 days off to stagger around holidays). It's the same as gettin 9-10 weeks in private practice.

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[pjl]

At current income level, I don't notice the lack of extra cash if I make it Roth. I feel like I have a low chance of not remaining in current bracket for at least 15 years after retiring. This gets more gross income out of taxable investment accounts, plus there are the other advantages of Roth. If I was closer to the cutoff on brackets my thoughts may be different. Probably for most here you can make either choice without any noticeable changes to retirement. I did pay off debt before switching to Roth though.

Invest heavily on the front end young ones, and you can coast later. For me this meant a less desirable (for some) location, and longer hours. To me the location is great, but the hours could use a little shave.

Go check out the bogleheads forum sometime.


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[Mman]

If you are a top bracket investor today, they are probably not the best choice.

backdoor Roth is perfect for high income investor since traditional IRA contribution can't be deducted anyway. I mean if you are already investing in the IRA, it's already after tax dollars. Call it a Roth and it grows tax free. Don't call it a Roth and you'll get taxed again on gains when you withdraw.

 

[deleted126335]

backdoor Roth is perfect for high income investor since traditional IRA contribution can't be deducted anyway. I mean if you are already investing in the IRA, it's already after tax dollars. Call it a Roth and it grows tax free. Don't call it a Roth and you'll get taxed again on gains when you withdraw.

Completely true, but if you have other IRAs it can be a pain in the arse.

If you have any other (non-Roth) IRAs, the taxable portion of any conversion you make is prorated over all your IRAs; you cannot convert just the non-deductible amount.[3] In order to benefit from the backdoor, you must either convert your other IRAs as well (which may not be a good idea, as you are usually in a high tax bracket if you need to use the backdoor), or else transfer your deductible IRA contributions to an employer plan such as a 401(k) (which may cost you if the 401(k) has poor investment options).

 

[aneftp]

Completely true, but if you have other IRAs it can be a pain in the arse.

If you have any other (non-Roth) IRAs, the taxable portion of any conversion you make is prorated over all your IRAs; you cannot convert just the non-deductible amount.[3] In order to benefit from the backdoor, you must either convert your other IRAs as well (which may not be a good idea, as you are usually in a high tax bracket if you need to use the backdoor), or else transfer your deductible IRA contributions to an employer plan such as a 401(k) (which may cost you if the 401(k) has poor investment options).

Yup. I made a mistake by putting $4k into non deduductible IrA for 3 years setting myself up for the big Roth conversation in 2010. But I didn't do that. So that 12k post tax money I have in non deductible account will essentially but doubled taxed because the percentage it makes in my overall retirement (pretax and post tax )accounts is so small

 

[pgg]

Roth's are great if you are a resident and have extra cash to pay taxes or a fresh attending who only has an attending salary for part of a year. Or called up to the military to fulfill an obligation and take the associated income hit and have the cash in savings. or take a leave of absence for any reason fellowship, whatever.

View attachment 208213 to pgg and et al.

If you are a top bracket investor today, they are probably not the best choice.

In 2013 I spent 8 months in Afghanistan and had a large combat zone tax exclusion to deduct from my W2. I also (obviously) had zero moonlighting income during that time. I did a Roth conversion for all my traditional IRA accounts then because my bracket was so low. And my TSP (.mil 401k) contributions were all Roth.

That was an easy decision.

It's not quite so obviously easy to know what I should be doing now. I make sub market wages still from the Navy with some good tax benefits so my TSP is still going into Roth. I pay no state taxes. My marginal rate last year was in the 20s. Prior to fellowship moonlighting funded a SEP-IRA; after fellowship it will again.

Another issue is that there's probably some value to tax diversification, independent of your expected retirement bracket, by having some Roth and some non-Roth. And Roths don't have required distributions.

The dilemma I face is what to do with the SEP-IRA some years down the road when I leave the Navy, when I will likely want to take advantage of back door Roths. But I guess I'll figure that out later.

 

[pgg]

or else transfer your deductible IRA contributions to an employer plan such as a 401(k) (which may cost you if the 401(k) has poor investment options).

This is what I'll probably do - roll all of my SEP-IRA funds into TSP right before I get out of the Navy so I'll start off the civilian life with a zero balance in traditional IRA accounts.

TSP has limited investment options but for a passive indexer like me that's not a really big problem. I think.

 

[anes121508]

Any of you guys/gals participate in a supplemental executive retirement plan offered by your employer? Any words of wisdom? At first glance it looks attractive to put away additional savings, but it says "funds are considered assets of company X and subject to creditors".

 

[deleted171991]

If it's a 457b, my recommendation is not to participate. If the company goes South, so does your money.

 

[anes121508]

If it's a 457b, my recommendation is not to participate. If the company goes South, so does your money.

what if they get acquired by a larger AMC? or go from public to private?

 

[deleted171991]

what if they get acquired by a larger AMC? or go from public to private?

I wouldn't trust a private for-profit with my 457b money. If they go bankrupt, my money is gone. This is not like a 403b/401k. I would trust only the government or a large not-for-profit well-endowed university.

Remember Enron.

 

[Shimmy8]

I'm a CA-3 in Massachusetts. I'll have about $25k in the MA state retirement board system coming to me when I leave the state for pp after graduation.

Assuming I should roll this over into a 401k instead of IRA to keep my future backdoor Roth options open?

 

[bourne]

Okay,

So which of the Anesthesia management companies offers the best retirement plan? Anyone know the numbers for the following:

1. Mednax/American Anesthesiology
2. Team Health
3. Northstar
4. Sheridan/Amsurg

I don't know if the attached document is the latest but when I read the Northstar info earlier this year they will put in a max around $8k a year (far from what they could do to max it out). You have to work there 3 years to be vested. The investment choices were all Vanguard Target Retirement funds investment-class shares and annual "maintenance" fee from Lincoln Financial of 0.25%.