Rocky Vista University COM and psychiatry residency

[bfwhsm]

Hello,
I recently received an interview at RVU COM and am totally excited about it. I also have a interview at mid/mid-high tier MD program.

I much prefer the location of RVU over the MD program, and for me personally, this is a very important factor -- I also feel that DO is a better fit personally. However, I've read some not-so-positive things about the RVU program on these forums and I am cognizant of the some of existing prejudice against DO in certain residency programs.

I am strongly inclined to pursue psychiatry at this point, and might prefer a California residency. I understand that attending the MD program might open more opportunities, and so my big question is: would I face difficulty in matching to psych residency in, for instance, California if I were to attend RVU instead of MD program (provided that I perform decently in COMLEX/USMLE)?

I realize that interview does not yet mean an acceptance, but I would like to explore these questions early.

Thank you for your help

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[Dharma]

If you have the option to go MD, do NOT pass up the opportunity… if you do you will be closing doors before the game even really got going. You may feel that DO is a better fit, but 9.5 out of 10 times, the DO approach is no different than the typical MD approach. Don't believe the hype. Good luck young blood.

 

[Dharma]

Just to add to the above: I'm a DO student. I even like some of the OMT I've learned/utilized and see how it could be effective in the right hands. (/Non-self-hating DO disclaimer).

My USMLE score and grades (and hopefully LORs) would probably help me land interviews at some of the so-called "top places" in psychiatry… IF I were an MD student. But I'm not and these places will most likely not even give me a sniff. I will be screened out from the get-go. I'll still apply, but without any solid connects, odds are slim.

Do you want that?

 

[bfwhsm]

Thank you so much for the honest response. It is not only the DO label but also the "stimga" attached to RVU that concerns me -- although looking at their 2013 and 2014 match lists and their latest board scores, the school is definitely on the way up.

I am not as interested in "top places" in psychiatry. My main goal is to get into any psychiatry residency in California. But if it is likely that I will face great difficulty in achieving this goal due to the school reputation and DO degree, that's what I would want to be aware of prior to my decision.

 

[digitlnoize]

If you have the option to go MD, do NOT pass up the opportunity… if you do you will be closing doors before the game even really got going. You may feel that DO is a better fit, but 9.5 out of 10 times, the DO approach is no different than the typical MD approach. Don't believe the hype. Good luck young blood.

I would generally agree with this, with the exception that if the DO school is significantly cheaper than your MD options, you should consider that.

I do NOT agree with the other posters here that you'll be significantly limiting yourself from good residencies. There may be a few super snobby places left, but I (and my classmates) got plenty of interviews at great places and most of us matched at our #1 choice. I did. If you MUST have any Ivy residency, then maybe you shouldn't go DO, although I have DO friends at those places, and at top notch places in NYC. If you're ok with very solid residency choices like MUSC (top 10 NIH research funding), UVA, U Iowa, Indiana, and tons of other top notch places a DO education wouldn't hold you back. I was a very average student in my class and got interviews at every place I applied.

 

[bfwhsm]

Thank you for that. So based on your experience, graduating specifically from Rocky Vista University would not preclude me -- or render it otherwise extremely difficult -- from finding a psych residency in Cali (non-top level).

I understand that, of course, going the MD route may make things easier but I want assurance that going to RVU would not render my goals unreachable.

 

[Dharma]

I would generally agree with this, with the exception that if the DO school is significantly cheaper than your MD options, you should consider that.

I do NOT agree with the other posters here that you'll be significantly limiting yourself from good residencies. There may be a few super snobby places left, but I (and my classmates) got plenty of interviews at great places and most of us matched at our #1 choice. I did. If you MUST have any Ivy residency, then maybe you shouldn't go DO, although I have DO friends at those places, and at top notch places in NYC. If you're ok with very solid residency choices like MUSC (top 10 NIH research funding), UVA, U Iowa, Indiana, and tons of other top notch places a DO education wouldn't hold you back. I was a very average student in my class and got interviews at every place I applied.

Thanks for stepping in with this. I'm adding these programs to my list.

 

[Anduin]

I do NOT agree with the other posters here that you'll be significantly limiting yourself from good residencies.

Talking with my fellow residents, it seems like DOs need higher board scores and have to apply to a lot more programs to get the same number of interviews. Still seems like an uphill battle for DOs.

 

[MacDonaldTriad]

There are California residencies and there are California residencies. If you mean SF, LA or San Diego, probably better to go MD. If you are happy with Riverside, Fontana, Bakersfield, Fresno, and places like these in California, D.O. will probably do. I’m talking about psychiatry, family medicine, peds and neuro. If you want to keep derm, rads, and neuro surgery options, you really should think MD. We can debate about the morality of anti D.O. bias, but it is a reality that is unlikely to change in 4 years. Only you can decide what location is worth relative to aiming as high as you can vs. what works for your life, but MDs match better than D.O. and that is a fact. How much this matters depends a lot on specialty, but I’m always worried when a premed is sure about what field of medicine they are interested in. It is a lot like undergraduate majors. Changing your mind is the rule and not the exception.

 

[bfwhsm]

So, I guess the question to be asked is: are there DO grads (from less recognized school like RVU) who can match into psych residency in LA/SF/SJ/SD?

I ask, although I probably already know the answer -- that, sure, there are a few, but it's going to be a challenge.

(Looking at RVU 2014 match list, I do see one graduate ended up at Stanford University PM&R)

I truly appreciate every one of these responses.

 

[Postictal Raiden]

Hello,
I recently received an interview at RVU COM and am totally excited about it. I also have a interview at mid/mid-high tier MD program.

I much prefer the location of RVU over the MD program, and for me personally, this is a very important factor -- I also feel that DO is a better fit personally. However, I've read some not-so-positive things about the RVU program on these forums and I am cognizant of the some of existing prejudice against DO in certain residency programs.

I am strongly inclined to pursue psychiatry at this point, and might prefer a California residency. I understand that attending the MD program might open more opportunities, and so my big question is: would I face difficulty in matching to psych residency in, for instance, California if I were to attend RVU instead of MD program (provided that I perform decently in COMLEX/USMLE)?

I realize that interview does not yet mean an acceptance, but I would like to explore these questions early.

Thank you for your help

Just out of curiosity, did you apply to WesternU? Looking at our last year's match list, 12 matched psych, most of which were in CA. Some were at community programs while others were at academic hospitals such as Loma Linda and USC.

 

[shoenberg3]

..

 

[bfwhsm]

Just out of curiosity, did you apply to WesternU? Looking at our last year's match list, 12 matched psych, most of which were in CA. Some were at community programs while others were at academic hospitals such as Loma Linda and USC.

Yes I did, and also Touro COM CA. My application was somewhat late for DO schools so still eagerly waiting to hear back from them. I understand that attending a DO school in California would definitely make it plausible to match into California psych programs. But I am less assured when it comes to achieving this with RVU -- with its less-established status and no ties to CA hospitals/programs.

 

[Kevin Baker]

I'd recommend checking out 4th year schedules, 3rd year electives, and psych core rotations, seeing if there is a CA option or if you can even set your own up. If you are dead set on California, imo the best things you can do, more important than deciding between HMS and RVU, and controlling for board scores/grades/research, etc, is to do a ton of audition rotations and to get your face seen. This is easier said than done, may cost a ton, and you can shoot yourself in the foot if you don't make a good impression. Plus, you can do this whether you go MD or DO. There are a few California programs that either don't take DOs, or take a token superstar DO every other year, but there are more programs that do take them then don't. You can definitely get into the less competitive LA programs and perhaps one or two of the bay area programs without having to cure cancer UCSF took two Touro students a few years back though they are both superstars from what I here. San Diego will be tough. Davis and Irvine have a reputation for not being DO friendly. Other CA programs are wide open and even recruit from the local DO schools.

In general, going MD is going to be the path of least resistance but if you have strong ties near RVU, you can accomplish your goals by attending there. It will be considerably more work though.

 

[MLT2MT2DO]

So, I guess the question to be asked is: are there DO grads (from less recognized school like RVU) who can match into psych residency in LA/SF/SJ/SD?

I ask, although I probably already know the answer -- that, sure, there are a few, but it's going to be a challenge.

(Looking at RVU 2014 match list, I do see one graduate ended up at Stanford University PM&R)

I truly appreciate every one of these responses.

Currently I'm going through the process as a DO. My Scores and grades are quite a bit above average and I have a USMLE Step 1 in the 90%tile. FWIW, I have applied to Davis, UCSD, and Stanford which have sent out invites and I have yet to hear anything from them (UCSF doesn't appear to have sent invites out yet).

I have received top notched invites other places, California seems to be an issue though. I'll reply again if I do land invites at any of these places.

 

[TexasPhysician]

So, I guess the question to be asked is: are there DO grads (from less recognized school like RVU) who can match into psych residency in LA/SF/SJ/SD?

I ask, although I probably already know the answer -- that, sure, there are a few, but it's going to be a challenge.

(Looking at RVU 2014 match list, I do see one graduate ended up at Stanford University PM&R)

I truly appreciate every one of these responses.

The thing to understand is that California is the toughest state to land a residency in everything. I don't understand the appeal myself, but even my Texas med school had plenty of people going Cali or bust. These are people with long-term TX residency status even. I've seen many people willing to go to a much less prestigious Cali program over all Ivy programs.

If your top goal is a Cali residency in anything, I would not limit yourself by going DO if you can avoid it. There are probably no name Cali programs more competitive than better programs in many other states.

 

[Anduin]

Currently I'm going through the process as a DO. My Scores and grades are quite a bit above average and I have a USMLE Step 1 in the 90%tile. FWIW, I have applied to Davis, UCSD, and Stanford which have sent out invites and I have yet to hear anything from them (UCSF doesn't appear to have sent invites out yet).

I have received top notched invites other places, California seems to be an issue though. I'll reply again if I do land invites at any of these places.

I know more than one who had to repeat a year and barely passed boards by a couple points but still got interviews to those places. Dat DO degree.

 

[bfwhsm]

Currently I'm going through the process as a DO. My Scores and grades are quite a bit above average and I have a USMLE Step 1 in the 90%tile. FWIW, I have applied to Davis, UCSD, and Stanford which have sent out invites and I have yet to hear anything from them (UCSF doesn't appear to have sent invites out yet).

I have received top notched invites other places, California seems to be an issue though. I'll reply again if I do land invites at any of these places.

Thank you for your first hand experience. Davis, UCSD, Stanford are obviously very good programs. Have you applied to less prestigious programs in California and have you heard back from them?
And is your DO school in California and is it one of the more established programs?

Thank you everyone for the feedback

 

[MLT2MT2DO]

I know more than one who had to repeat a year and barely passed boards by a couple points but still got interviews to those places. Dat DO degree.

Invites probably aren't done being sent out yet, to be fair. If I don't get an invite I'm fine with it. If a school is going to judge me so harshly for the two letters after my name, rather than my CV or my character I'd rather not be there anyway, so it works out for both parties.

Thank you for your first hand experience. Davis, UCSD, Stanford are obviously very good programs. Have you applied to less prestigious programs in California and have you heard back from them?
And is your DO school in California and is it one of the more established programs?

Thank you everyone for the feedback

I also applied to San Mateo (a tough community program to match) and UCSF-Fresno (haven't sent interviews yet afaik), outside of the aforementioned programs that is all I applied to in CA. I'm not going to pick a sub par CA program just because it is in California so why apply? My school isn't in California, my ties are also somewhat loose. I was born in California ,moved when I was young and only have extended family there now. I should say I'm not a "California or bust person", if I was I would have also did all I could to do rotations through the more prestigious places.

Again, some of the interviews I have received have been excellent programs and probably will/would overshadow many if not all of these California places since I'm not a diehard California fan.

Conclusion: If you want an Ivy program or one of the top CA programs save yourself the uphill battle and stick with the allopathic school.
Otherwise pick the school you think you'll be happiest, work hard, be nice, and the rest should fall into place.

 

[bfwhsm]

Thank you MLT2MT2DO for such thorough response.

I think I qualify as a "California or bust person" and feel that I will enjoy my time at Rocky Vista much more than the MD school (in Midwest). I am not particularly shooting for a top program in psych so I will keep the option of attending the DO, working hard, and trying for a less competitive program in California. Seems like this would be somewhat difficult, but not impossible. If this plan doesn't sound feasible, someone please advise me otherwise before it's too late!

Of course, I am still open to (slightly leaning towards it, even) going to the MD, provided that I get into the program.

 

[Hockeyguy]

Hello,
I much prefer the location of RVU over the MD program, and for me personally, this is a very important factor -- I also feel that DO is a better fit personally. However, I've read some not-so-positive things about the RVU program on these forums and I am cognizant of the some of existing prejudice against DO in certain residency programs.

You would be crazy to choose RVU over any MD program. Go to the cheapest MD program you gain acceptance to and you will have no problem securing a psych residency. I'm telling you from experience as someone that has ranked applicants for residency programs.

 

[shoenberg3]

Thank you for the honest response. Would you say this is more due to the DO badge or the RVU name?

 

[Nasrudin]

Thank you for the honest response. Would you say this is more due to the DO badge or the RVU name?

DO name brands have local impact as feeder schools to certain residency programs. Nationally there's only a a few dozen universities that have nationally recognized brands. A few more dozen based on NCAA athletic rankings. Which, is really what this thing should be about: who's football team kicks @ss and which school is a perennial contender for the nation's top party school. Asking about strength of psychiatry shows that you have terrible priorities.

 

[Anduin]

Thank you for the honest response. Would you say this is more due to the DO badge or the RVU name?

I would avoid DO, if possible. DO schools are generally more expensive. Many have horrible clinical rotations. You'll have to spend a lot of time learning pseudoscience. And it will put you at a distinct disadvantaged in the match.

 

[digitlnoize]

I would avoid DO, if possible. DO schools are generally more expensive. Many have horrible clinical rotations. You'll have to spend a lot of time learning pseudoscience. And it will put you at a distinct disadvantaged in the match.

This may be true for some but certainly not all DO schools. My DO school was cheaper than any of my instate MD options. I had great clinical rotations. I spent 2 hours a week getting what basically amounts to a massage and hanging out with my friends. And I got interviews at every psych program I applied to, multiple prematch offers, and matched at my #1 choice, as did most of my DO friends. Even in rads and ortho and derm.

I would tend to favor MD over DO, unless your DO option is significantly cheaper. DO is far, FAR superior to nothing or waiting though. I don't regret it and it hasn't held me or anyone I know back one bit.

 

[MLT2MT2DO]

This may be true for some but certainly not all DO schools. My DO school was cheaper than any of my instate MD options. I had great clinical rotations. I spent 2 hours a week getting what basically amounts to a massage and hanging out with my friends. And I got interviews at every psych program I applied to, multiple prematch offers, and matched at my #1 choice, as did most of my DO friends. Even in rads and ortho and derm.

I would tend to favor MD over DO, unless your DO option is significantly cheaper. DO is far, FAR superior to nothing or waiting though. I don't regret it and it hasn't held me or anyone I know back one bit.

Same school as Dig. He's offered great info for me in the past, with him being 3 years ahead of me. While I agree with his statement, for the most part, California appears to be a huge exception.

Nearly all residencies I've applied to have been able to look at my past and board scores and see a well rounded individual. Unfortunately CA has been an exception, where the letters after your name mean more than the person in front of them.

Since the OP's concern is distinctly in regards to California, I'd have to agree that if the MD option is there, run as fast as you can with it.

 

[shoenberg3]

Just earlier, I was very happy in receiving acceptance to Touro-CA. I know that this school has historically sent most of its graduates to California residencies. Do people still foresee that I will have trouble matching psych residency in California, coming out of Touro-CA?

Thank you all for your contribution.

 

[JustAGuy]

Just earlier, I was very happy in receiving acceptance to Touro-CA. I know that this school has historically sent most of its graduates to California residencies. Do people still foresee that I will have trouble matching psych residency in California, coming out of Touro-CA?

Thank you all for your contribution.

If you're an average or slightly above average Touro student, you'll apply to every program in California and get maybe a couple interviews at the least competitive programs, like USC, Visalia, Fresno, and Loma Linda. There's also Arrowhead. You'd still probably have a better shot as a MD student.

 

[digitlnoize]

Same school as Dig. He's offered great info for me in the past, with him being 3 years ahead of me. While I agree with his statement, for the most part, California appears to be a huge exception.

Nearly all residencies I've applied to have been able to look at my past and board scores and see a well rounded individual. Unfortunately CA has been an exception, where the letters after your name mean more than the person in front of them.

Since the OP's concern is distinctly in regards to California, I'd have to agree that if the MD option is there, run as fast as you can with it.

Yeah, MD is probably better. But you can certainly do Cali psych from even a non-CA DO school. I have friends who matched there. And lots more who interviewed but picked other places.

 

[MLT2MT2DO]

Yeah, MD is probably better. But you can certainly do Cali psych from even a non-CA DO school. I have friends who matched there. And lots more who interviewed but picked other places.

I'll agree as long as you're not shooting for one of the top 4-5 places in Cali. If it is just generalized California there are still plenty of DO friendly places. Outside of that, I'm not sure why you wouldn't go to a California DO school if you want to stay in California, the more connections the better your chances.

 

[Dharma]

You'll have to spend a lot of time learning pseudoscience.

Not that much time. Some of it actually works and learning a solid MSK exam (with constant reinforcement of innervations and actions) wasn't exactly a horrible thing.

How much time did you spend in OMT classes at your school?

 

[digitlnoize]

Agree that Cali DO is probably better than non-Cali DO. I would still encourage you to consider the tuition factor too.

If you're relatively sure you're going to do psych, seriously consider going to the best residency you can, regardless of location. After residency, you can some SWEET jobs in Cali regardless of degree. I get offers daily.

 

[microshar88]

Agree that Cali DO is probably better than non-Cali DO. I would still encourage you to consider the tuition factor too.

If you're relatively sure you're going to do psych, seriously consider going to the best residency you can, regardless of location. After residency, you can some SWEET jobs in Cali regardless of degree. I get offers daily.

Interesting. I was interested in staying close to home but after I heard about how difficult Arrowhed is in terms of call, I decided not to apply there as I have heard horror stories about the workload at that county facility.

I have been told just go where you will be happiest. What do you define as factors that would make something "best" residency?

I'm trying to figure this out as I go through the interview trail. All programs seem similar in terms of didactics but work load and resident dependency varies greatly. I would think you make out of if what you want and its dependent on you.

Thanks!