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I think it's funny that of all the lists you post, the one you won't post is your rank list. lol.
Come on...what can it hurt at this point?
Rol time!
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I think it's funny that of all the lists you post, the one you won't post is your rank list. lol.
Come on...what can it hurt at this point?
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i am happy to share my rol privately if anyone is interested.
are you kiddin me, you had UIC 5th on your list of these programs? I thought it was supposed to be a super strong program that's one of the best in Chi, and I can't say enough great things bout that city...could you please explain because I always thought if I had UIC as an option it'd be one of my highest ranked so this actually makes me feel a lil better...is it full of IMGs or somethin?
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A lot of people really seemed to like Creighton this year. I initially applied there but withdrew after I got a certain number of interviews at more preferred locations. Starting to wish I'd kept it.
Honorable mention places that I wish I'd applied or gone:
Maine: Everyone on the trail raved about this program
Vermont: Got an interview...ALMOST went. Was a tough call. Wish I had.
U New Mexico: Everyone also raves about this one. Don't think ABQ is the best location though...oh well.
UF: One of only 3 places I applied that didn't give me an interview. The other two were Brown (applied a week late just to see what happened, because I got WAY WAY more interviews in the first week than I was expecting), and U Arkansas (which my wife wasn't loving the idea of anyways). Go figure.
USF: Although this isn't the best psych program, a small part of me misses Florida and Tampa. Sigh.
UNC: UNC and Duke are the only two programs I know of that don't take COMLEX...at least that's what they say. I didn't bother trying. Kinda wish I'd thrown one out to UNC just to see what happened, since it's such a good program and so close by. Oh well.
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Right, but talking about the best psychiatry program in Chicago is like talking about the best 3point shooter in the chess club.
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1. St. Luke's-Roosevelt
2. Einstein/Monte
3. NYU
4. UCSF
5. Cornell
6. MGH
7. Beth Israel NY
8. Columbia
9. Mt Sinai
10. Penn
2. Einstein/Monte
3. NYU
4. UCSF
5. Cornell
6. MGH
7. Beth Israel NY
8. Columbia
9. Mt Sinai
10. Penn
tru but not theoretically if I wanna settle down in Chitown long-term after CAP fellowship, which program(s) in Chicago have the best CAP fellowships at least? I know it's not the one I interviewed at in N. Chicago, Rosalind Franklin, cuz they don't have any fellowships (tho they boast having a h/o residents fast-trackin to Stanford, Harvard, and NW for child fellowships anyhow..)
Is all the love for St. Luke's-Roosevelt over seemingly way more prestigious programs about location, cushy lifestyle, aweome residents and faculty, other factors that weight heavily (more salary, free housing, etc.?), all of the above? I saw JLearner put it 2nd on a long ROL over several of the usual heavyweights as well...
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The only Chicago CAP program that is really known outside of Chicago is Northwestern. The program director, MaryBeth Lake, is absolutely AMAZING.
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I don't know any of them, but they played at the AACAP meeting in Toronto. They're quite good.
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Can't speak for the others, but throughout the process I realized prestige/name mattered less and less (for me and what I want), and between the diverse group of residents who seemed very happy and as well as the PD who was a very straight shooter in a way I respected (a la PD at Vermont, discussed elsewhere), it seemed like the place I would be happiest. Housing, location, etc doesn't hurt, but not a central factor in decision by a long shot.
Everyone is really nice in Creighton, which makes sense as it's slap dab in the middle of the Heartland. Plus, with a pretty great salary, Omaha being amongst the top cities to live Cost of Living wise, and great public schools, low crime, etc., if you have kids, you can live a pretty cush, happy lifestyle. I only put it so far down my list (7/9) cuz I grew up in Des Moines, IA, so not only been there done that in terms of population that's 90+ percent white (I like having some more diversity than that), I know how for me fun city and warm beats boring and cold, regardless of nicer people and better financial situation...
Are you kidding, these woulda just been 7 more places you woulda put behind UVA and prolly Palmetto, MUSC, and Indy, where you'll likely end up at your #1 anyways...I'm guessin 3 weeks from tomorrow, you'll feel great knowin you didn't waste your time, money, and energy...
Interestin pequalsmd, I believe you (along with JLearner) mighta just pulled an Oprah and single-handedly turned this program into gold (i.e. elite status) since you chose it over several of the "top psychiatry programs in the nation"...wonder if it'll become as ultra-competitive as those other brand names in future years now if the consensus agrees with you and J. Do you know if the fellowships there (particularly child) as great and well-led as the residency program?
Also, I wonder how hard was it for you to make your rank list when you were this highly coveted by so many of the best programs such that you were forced to make UPenn, for instance, LAST on your list...! Must be nice..
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Oh no doubt. But I had to pick between Hershey and Vermont and picked Hershey because it was closer, I could drive to it, and we thought it might be a decent small-town program. Now not even ranking it.
If I'd gone to Vermont, at least I'd have had a program to rank...probably would've been after Iowa, MCW, and Vandy, but ahead of WVU, Wake, ECU, and Roanoke.
I agree (and hope) that it's only an academic exercise and I'll get #1 (or 2, or 3, or...), but you never know, and I do think I would have preferred it as a "backup" program to some of my current "backups." Really, I'm only mentioning these other programs for posterity's sake, and hope someone in the future considers applying to them over say, Hershey.
You hear that future?!? Vermont > Hershey. Got it? Good.
My goal in this whole process was to have zero backups on my list. I think I did pretty good.
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I would agree with pequalsmd. Prestige only goes so far for me and I knew I needed to be someplace where I'd be happy(big city). So, as long as these "less known" programs didn't fail the "are you malignant test", I was fine with ranking them. And to reiterate pequalsmd, the PD was a very laid back easy going guy and the residents all seemed happy/cohesive/fun. I would be very happy to end up there.
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I am,would you PM it to me?
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Fine. I'll take one too. I'm more curious about the places splik actually likes, lol. I'm betting there's very little (or no) overlap with mine.
Ya and conversely I dropped a couple programs cuz I didn't like the PDs very much..u definitely wanna believe in and wanna follow your leadership (chair, PD, faculty, older residents) and a bonus to me is likin em personally
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I doubt it will become "elite" anytime soon since it is not a research giant, and by all indications it does not seem like it is heading in that direction. They are most active in addictions research, but mostly clinical trials, and it seems somewhat limited. My impression was there are not the resources (human, physical or financial) to be a major player in research. But that was not something the PD or anyone else tried to hide or candy-coat, and I loved that. He also unapologetically said to the applicants that if you're interested in CAP, it's probably not the right program for you... if that gives you any indication as to the strength of CAP there.
I have a fair amount of research under my belt and thought I wanted to do academic psych, but that changed especially over the past 2 years and is something I value much less. Again, it was a personal decision, and in addition to what I said above, I purposefully ranked SLR at the top because I saw it as a solid community program that still retained elements of university programs I wanted, specifically as it relates to teaching and medical eduction. Ironically it was one on the tail end of the season for me and considered canceling it... so glad I didn't. Walked out with a smile and a great feeling about the place. Couldn't say that about many of the others on my ROL.
OK, no one puke from the amount of warm and fuzzy in the past few sentences.
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Sure I can elaborate. UIC is a fine program, in one America's greatest cities, and I think I could be happy there. However, my interview day was not so pleasant, and I came away viewing UIC with an attitude of elitism and arrogance. As part of our interview packet we were given the list of psych programs with NIH funding. Their #17 (or whatever) ranking was brought up multiple times and seemed to be their main selling point. I'm not interested in a research career, but I want to train at an institution that has a progressive culture of research. All off my interviewers seemed at best passive and at worst very abrasive towards my answers and questions about the program. This was in contrast to my top two programs, who seemed to very humbly mention their research credentials only once (and both receive more NIH funding than UIC btw), but more proudly discussed the special projects and diverse interests of their residents. Maybe I got a bad group of interviewers on a bad day, but with nearly every turn I sensed a potentially hostile environment with unfounded arrogance towards their research programs.
The residents were cool enough, and they are the only reason I said I could potentially be happy. They love the city, and while they admitted to working very hard, they said it was manageable and mentioned a few good faculty members with whom they were able to connect with. Great city, and probably a good program if you want to do research, but there are programs out there with even more opportunities for research and much better balance
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So out of curiosity, I am wondering why more people did not apply/interview at the Mayo Clinic. I know that the psychiatry department, although still strong, may not be seen as one of the stronger departments at Mayo, but the research opportunities are amazing and the residents were all really down to earth despite the stuffy impression wearing a suit and tie projects to everyone. My thoughts on the downfalls of the program, was only really the location seeing as I am from a larger city and single and Rochester is pretty small. But 40% of their patient population come from all over the world to get treated so you still get a rather diverse patient population.
Any thoughts?
Any thoughts?
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i did not apply mainly because it is in Rochester. and because there so many better programs in more reasonable locations for my purposes.
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Weather + Distance + Suit/Tie = Fail.
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ae bi
slr
ae m
northwestern
uic
rush
ucla sfv
bu
u of c
lij
tufts
advocate lutheran general
rosalind franklin
unc
loyola
p excited about everything and would be esp happy to match in top 7 - it was tough to decide on it all! was very fortunate to meet great people at all the above places, good luck to everyone!
slr
ae m
northwestern
uic
rush
ucla sfv
bu
u of c
lij
tufts
advocate lutheran general
rosalind franklin
unc
loyola
p excited about everything and would be esp happy to match in top 7 - it was tough to decide on it all! was very fortunate to meet great people at all the above places, good luck to everyone!
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The amount of research opportunities a program has was lower on my list of "must haves" when it came to rankings. Also, it's Rochester.
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"All different kinds of people rich enough to fly in from all over the world" isn't what most of us would call diversity.
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Maybe, maybe not. but they are much much better elsewhere. Mayo is not a major player in psychiatry.
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This has got to be the fastest growing, most viewed (by rate) psych thread in quite awhile! Keep em coming guys, dont be afraid to share your ROL.... and more importantly your thoughts about how you went about constructing it! It will be so helpful for the ones who will come after us.
Splik, PM your favorite buddy a copy of your ROL, how dare you deprive us??!!!!
Splik, PM your favorite buddy a copy of your ROL, how dare you deprive us??!!!!
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Also put SLR #1, for similar reasons, and also above other "big name" programs in and outside of NYC. Looks like I'm not even close to being alone, it would be interesting to see how far down their rank list they go based on what's been posted here already.
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I'm sure next year's lot would be interested to hear what's so good about SLR? I did not apply there because I didn't know anything about it.
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Me, too! I guess I can play this game...
1) USC
2) Miami
3) Wash U
4) LIJ
5) HSS
6) Case Western
7) Georgetown
8) Stony Brook
9) Loyola
10) Hawaii
11) UMDNJ-Piscataway
A couple reasons I didn't apply. First, the location. I only applied to places I thought I would want to live. Second, in terms of prestige of psychiatry programs, I think it's far to say Mayo isn't near the top of the list. I'm sure it's a great program, just wasn't desireable to me. Also, I hadn't really heard much about the program (positive or otherwise), and I kind of took the silence to mean it must not be that impressive.
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rank list...
1) Yale (St. Raphaels)
2) Yale (Yale Hospital)
3) NYU
4) MGH
5) UPenn
6) Cambridge
7) Brown
8) Harvard Longwood
9) Mt Sinai
10) Columbia
11) Hopkins
1) Yale (St. Raphaels)
2) Yale (Yale Hospital)
3) NYU
4) MGH
5) UPenn
6) Cambridge
7) Brown
8) Harvard Longwood
9) Mt Sinai
10) Columbia
11) Hopkins
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rank list...
1) Yale (St. Raphaels)
2) Yale (Yale Hospital)
3) NYU
4) MGH
5) UPenn
6) Cambridge
7) Brown
8) Harvard Longwood
9) Mt Sinai
10) Columbia
11) Hopkins
Ok, wait....something is happening....those who have historically been the more "competitive" programs seems to be falling ever so down the list of many (obviously eligible) applicants.
How will this play out in the match? hmmmm...
Ok, wait....something is happening....those who have historically been the more "competitive" programs seems to be falling ever so down the list of many (obviously eligible) applicants.
How will this play out in the match? hmmmm...
I think fundamental human insecurities are probably a confounder here. I imagine those applicants out there applying to the most competitive programs are less likely to publicly post a ROL and subject themselves to public embarrassment than candidates who may be more confident with less competitive programs at the top.
Either that, or I really, really should've "ranked" the SOAP in my top 5. The top-tier programs are all going to be going to the scramble...
I respectfully disagree. I think the more 'impressive' your rank list, the more likely you are to post it. At least that's been the trend on these boards in the past. However, I think it's important to remember that the SDN crowd is by no means a representation of the applicant pool as a whole. I'm sure plenty of people are ranking MGH and Columbia #1.
I'm a little confused by some of these posts and am looking for some honest opinions. In looking at 1234...'s rank list, there's absolutely nothing surprising to me. I interviewed at over half of these programs, including MGH, Columbia, and Yale, and for what I'm interested in, Yale fits much better than the two other programs. In many areas of psychiatry, both on the clinical and research sides, many of the listed programs are comparable to or equivalent to MGH and Columbia, yet these two programs are always listed as the "best". There is no doubt that they provide awesome opportunites and have great people to work with and learn from; I saw them first hand. But I was just curious as how objectively folks have cast them as the holy grail when essentially all of 1234...'s programs would provide fantastic training. Clearly geography plays a role, but that's not usually provided as a top reason, and many of these programs are in the same cities.
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LOL, Dr. R talked about his band Pink Freud, but I never got to see him actually play.
If you come to Penn, you can ask the PD all about it.
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Yeah. We're only at n < 10 or so.
I have a related sdn question:
It seems the number of users going into the application cycle with only a small post record seems to be high. What is the general consensus about the reasons for this? Do you all recommend this?
I mean. I'm not ashamed of who I am. But I also have also expressed opinions that might give the wrong impression and belie my natural instincts for avoiding trouble and completing medical training without any bumps in the road...and so on.
Why do people find it necessary to hide post histories? Is their good reason or just paranoia? Thanks.
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No one's heard of El Paso it seems, but it's amazing. A young medical school with seasoned faculty, in a border town with interesting pathology. Everyone was so nice, and they have a great food plan.
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carlion
wayne
creigton
suny downstate
ecu
rosalind franklin
wayne
creigton
suny downstate
ecu
rosalind franklin
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I haven't posted much just because I haven't had much to say. when people start debating Columbia vs Cornell vs Harvard my eyes glaze over
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So why Carilion? Not saying its bad...I worked there for a month and enjoyed it, but I'm curious...
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I absolutely agree. The distribution of active SDN users tends to be bimodal, in my experience at least. Compare these two posts:
M4 at a highly regarded Northeast medical school; Step 1 257, mostly honors with a few high passes first year. Honors in IM/Surg and specialty clerkship. 5 publications, 6 manuscripts pending review. Designed, implemented and currently oversee operations at 4 clinics at various points along the Amazon, one for every year of med school. Prior to med school, I invented the internet. Hobbies include teaching cello to underserved youth. HONESTLY, DO YOU GUYS THINK I HAVE A CHANCE OF MATCHING?
IMG interviewing in any specialty that will accept me. Applied enough times to say ERAS was new and exciting. Step 1 190 on repeat, CK 203 and had to take CS three times. Hobbies include working to pay for and eventually taking USMLEs. Step 3 pending. HONESTLY, DO YOU GUYS THINK I HAVE A CHANCE OF MATCHING?
I know these are exaggerations, but to some extent that is a lot of what you see posted on these forums. The people in the middle need to speak up!
I joined the conversation because I was tired of being a fly on the wall for so long and to keep the conversation going. Another trend on SDN is if no one participates, the thread dies. Looks like it's working!
i really liked mayo but i had a big problem with the patient population. they dont take anyone with violent pasts and dont do acute detox. this is on top of an already white/middle class/rural population. they dont have many moonlighting oppurtunities either.
the very small city of rochester scares away some people but i actually liked the size/ safety/ convenience. residents were super nice, faculty was awesome, and facilities were top notch. anyone whos planning on a suburban practice would be very happy there. overall it was really really good.
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I didn't mean to make a direct correlation.
The bottom line is I'm thankful for your stories. Reading about your experiences is educational. I would like to respond in kind for those that come after. But I am cautious when it come to our medical overseers. And I recognize the power to end careers exists. While I consider myself a good citizen of medicine. I am wary that a dictatorial or institutionally-embedded mind may approach things quite differently
So I'm fishing for recommendations on the difference between prudence and paranoia with regards to approaching the next phase of training with anonymity or traceable online identity.
Sorry. Back to Rank lists....
The bottom line is I'm thankful for your stories. Reading about your experiences is educational. I would like to respond in kind for those that come after. But I am cautious when it come to our medical overseers. And I recognize the power to end careers exists. While I consider myself a good citizen of medicine. I am wary that a dictatorial or institutionally-embedded mind may approach things quite differently
So I'm fishing for recommendations on the difference between prudence and paranoia with regards to approaching the next phase of training with anonymity or traceable online identity.
Sorry. Back to Rank lists....
been a loooong time lucker... really had nothing interesting to say... I didn't take good enough notes on the interviews to give a good description. Went with my gut because in the end, these schools really aren't that different.
1. Yale
2. Columbia
3. Cornell
4. UMD/SP
5. Hopkins
6. Emory
My thoughts:
Emory: Grady was a little to 'much' for me with a little too much service over learning. I really didn't feel like I would fit in with the residents or in ATL. I'm not sure why I applied here...I think the warmer weather sucked me in.
Hopkins: nice enough, nicer than I thought they would be but very aggressive in thinking about psychiatry, seem to work REALLY hard for limited extra benefit. Weak, in my opinion, psychotherapy training. I figure its the only time i'd get so I wanted to go somewhere i'd actually get it. Also ICU...why?
UMD/SP: great program, on the large size which I liked, SP is amazing, low cost of living in Baltimore. I was concerned about the residents not really going into academic medicine. May have some internal political things which concerned me, but not that big a deal. The residents seemed chill.
Cornell: location and location, told by residents they work extremely hard, seem to have lots of opportunities for research, I actually really liked the Westchester parts, even though its a hour away, and thought it would be a great learning environment. High cost of living in NYC.
Columbia: location and location, actually liked the atmosphere here, even though a little intense, not crazy about ICU/CCU...why? again for me academic goals, a great place. Lots of fellowship opps. lower cost of living in Washington Heights with more diverse surrounding. I think I would be happy here, but of course.......
Yale: I really enjoyed every moment of the interview day. I like the 2nd year having some time to do research. Good fellowships. Nice residents. Lower cost of living than NYC but close-ish. New Haven is +/- in my mind but whatever. Puts people into academic positions.
DNR: MGH and Longwood because when I really really thought about it, I didn't want to live in Boston. No Northwestern b/c I wanted to stay on the east coast and I don't know anyone in or near Chicago.
1. Yale
2. Columbia
3. Cornell
4. UMD/SP
5. Hopkins
6. Emory
My thoughts:
Emory: Grady was a little to 'much' for me with a little too much service over learning. I really didn't feel like I would fit in with the residents or in ATL. I'm not sure why I applied here...I think the warmer weather sucked me in.
Hopkins: nice enough, nicer than I thought they would be but very aggressive in thinking about psychiatry, seem to work REALLY hard for limited extra benefit. Weak, in my opinion, psychotherapy training. I figure its the only time i'd get so I wanted to go somewhere i'd actually get it. Also ICU...why?
UMD/SP: great program, on the large size which I liked, SP is amazing, low cost of living in Baltimore. I was concerned about the residents not really going into academic medicine. May have some internal political things which concerned me, but not that big a deal. The residents seemed chill.
Cornell: location and location, told by residents they work extremely hard, seem to have lots of opportunities for research, I actually really liked the Westchester parts, even though its a hour away, and thought it would be a great learning environment. High cost of living in NYC.
Columbia: location and location, actually liked the atmosphere here, even though a little intense, not crazy about ICU/CCU...why? again for me academic goals, a great place. Lots of fellowship opps. lower cost of living in Washington Heights with more diverse surrounding. I think I would be happy here, but of course.......
Yale: I really enjoyed every moment of the interview day. I like the 2nd year having some time to do research. Good fellowships. Nice residents. Lower cost of living than NYC but close-ish. New Haven is +/- in my mind but whatever. Puts people into academic positions.
DNR: MGH and Longwood because when I really really thought about it, I didn't want to live in Boston. No Northwestern b/c I wanted to stay on the east coast and I don't know anyone in or near Chicago.
