Rotations useful?

[joeDO2]

Anyone else dreading the start of 4th year? It seems many say that 4th year is much better but I'm not sure why this is. Yes, there are more electives but I doubt we are magically going to get any more responsibility, respect, or increased teaching. I've been on rotations with 4th yrs and we are treated the exact same (seemingly).

For the most part, rotations come in 2 flavors- the ones that don't care that you are there... In which case you spend all your time reading or trying to look busy and stay out if the way....the mere presence of a student is considered annoying. The other is one where students are necessary for free labor to fill in for lack of support staff. This can be useful to some who don't have any prior patient care experience, however it doesn't take long to figure out how to perform things like drawing blood, giving nebs, changing bandages etc. Don't get me wrong...I have no problem doing these things (actually enjoy the fact that I'm doing something useful) but it's not that productive to education.

I'm sure back in the day rotations were useful because you could learn to write notes etc. with new Medicare rules residents have to do these things themselves anyway. There is less motivation to have the student do them since everything has to be redone. Even when we do write notes there is not much incentive to care what we write...it's mostly just to keep us busy and out of the way.

Typical day as a third year consists of the following ingredients: be told to go read, receive annoyed looks from staff that you exist, have patients complain that they don't want to see a medical student, have nurses mock / abuse you, pay $40,000 / year to show up to work.

The thought of starting over again to do an entire 13 more 4 week rotations of this is nauseating.

Edit: there have been 1-2 rotations that were more heavy on teaching which I appreciated very much....unfortunately these are few and far in between.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[BlueJay25]

I'm just about ready to gear up for 3rd year, and I was really looking forward to rotations. I've done an observership while in my 2nd year and absolutely loved it. I hope you're able to pick some electives where you can really learn and be a part of the team. I would recommend talking to some people and asking which hospitals they have done away rotations and electives and really enjoyed it. Most of my friends who are now residents say that rotations were the best part of their med school experience, hopefully you'll be able to say the same (or at least 4th year). Keep your head up!

 

[joeDO2]

I'm just about ready to gear up for 3rd year, and I was really looking forward to rotations. I've done an observership while in my 2nd year and absolutely loved it. I hope you're able to pick some electives where you can really learn and be a part of the team. I would recommend talking to some people and asking which hospitals they have done away rotations and electives and really enjoyed it. Most of my friends who are now residents say that rotations were the best part of their med school experience, hopefully you'll be able to say the same (or at least 4th year). Keep your head up!

Thanks. I hope my post didn't discourage you and that you have a great experience out there.

 

[tco]

As someone who just finished MS4, it is a LOT better in fourth year than third year, at least for me. You might not think that you've learned a lot in third year, but you have. You're able to walk into a patient's room and quickly identify how sick they are, just by looking at them and talking with them for a moment. That's an important skill to have. From this, you'll be able to think about your possible diagnoses (which will still be a long list because we're still so inexperienced) and ask targeted questions to narrow down those diagnoses. Once you begin having success with this process, and can act as a functioning member of the team on your Sub-I (I did mine in medicine, so surgery might be different), attendings will begin to treat you like a resident-lite. They'll tell you to do certain bedside procedures on your patients with the senior's supervision (paracentesis, ABGs, etc), and allow you to make treatment decisions as long as they're not over the top or ridiculous. It's a great feeling to suggest something and to be told, "That sounds good, go ahead and order it." It's also a good feeling to have your senior forget that you're not an intern, which will happen to you if you're diligent enough.

Electives are a lot better because, for the most part, they realize that you're a fourth year and you either have Step 2 to study for, or you're at the point where your attention span has deteriorated and you check out around lunch. So, because of this, they usually let you go in the early afternoon and teaching happens in the morning. This did not apply for me on infectious disease, where I would be in the hospital until 6 or 7 PM finishing notes (this rotation provided me with a tremendous amount of knowledge and experience, however).

I said throughout the year that if I could get paid around 30k per year, I'd just stay in fourth year for the rest of my career because it's so enjoyable (somewhat tongue in cheek). There's a lot of learning, you are treated with some respect, your opinion matters, but ultimately you don't have the same responsibility as a resident in the care for the patient. It's a great time, so enjoy it.

 

[DermViser]

Anyone else dreading the start of 4th year? It seems many say that 4th year is much better but I'm not sure why this is. Yes, there are more electives but I doubt we are magically going to get any more responsibility, respect, or increased teaching. I've been on rotations with 4th yrs and we are treated the exact same (seemingly).

For the most part, rotations come in 2 flavors- the ones that don't care that you are there... In which case you spend all your time reading or trying to look busy and stay out if the way....the mere presence of a student is considered annoying. The other is one where students are necessary for free labor to fill in for lack of support staff. This can be useful to some who don't have any prior patient care experience, however it doesn't take long to figure out how to perform things like drawing blood, giving nebs, changing bandages etc. Don't get me wrong...I have no problem doing these things (actually enjoy the fact that I'm doing something useful) but it's not that productive to education.

I'm sure back in the day rotations were useful because you could learn to write notes etc. with new Medicare rules residents have to do these things themselves anyway. There is less motivation to have the student do them since everything has to be redone. Even when we do write notes there is not much incentive to care what we write...it's mostly just to keep us busy and out of the way.

Typical day as a third year consists of the following ingredients: be told to go read, receive annoyed looks from staff that you exist, have patients complain that they don't want to see a medical student, have nurses mock / abuse you, pay $40,000 / year to show up to work.

The thought of starting over again to do an entire 13 more 4 week rotations of this is nauseating.

Edit: there have been 1-2 rotations that were more heavy on teaching which I appreciated very much....unfortunately these are few and far in between.

If you believe that this is what MS-3 encompasses then your school did you a real disservice with respect to your education and to preparing you for residency. This isn't shocking when medical schools send students to places that aren't directly under the medical school, such as yours. Sorry to tell you but your med school, LECOM, screwed you.

MS-4 is easier bc 1) there are few rotation requirements and essentially all electives while you go through the match. MS-4 is nothing like MS-3 bc the game is pretty much over with respect to your Dean's letter.

 

[AMEHigh]

That sucks you've had a poor experience. I'm also at a DO school.

My 3rd year and beginning of 4th year have been the complete opposite. On every rotation I've had I've been responsible for patient care, writing notes that the residents and attendants look at and go over with me, doctors teaching throughout the day, etc.

I think rotations are absolutely crucial and I've learned a lot on a daily basis. I can also see the difference in knowledge base between 3rd and 4th years.

Maybe it's because I'm in a city with a lot of medical schools support staff and patients are typically welcoming to students also.

Hopefully at least during your electives you can go to some solid rotations.

 

[@JackShephard]

Anyone else dreading the start of 4th year? It seems many say that 4th year is much better but I'm not sure why this is. Yes, there are more electives but I doubt we are magically going to get any more responsibility, respect, or increased teaching. I've been on rotations with 4th yrs and we are treated the exact same (seemingly).

For the most part, rotations come in 2 flavors- the ones that don't care that you are there... In which case you spend all your time reading or trying to look busy and stay out if the way....the mere presence of a student is considered annoying. The other is one where students are necessary for free labor to fill in for lack of support staff. This can be useful to some who don't have any prior patient care experience, however it doesn't take long to figure out how to perform things like drawing blood, giving nebs, changing bandages etc. Don't get me wrong...I have no problem doing these things (actually enjoy the fact that I'm doing something useful) but it's not that productive to education.

I'm sure back in the day rotations were useful because you could learn to write notes etc. with new Medicare rules residents have to do these things themselves anyway. There is less motivation to have the student do them since everything has to be redone. Even when we do write notes there is not much incentive to care what we write...it's mostly just to keep us busy and out of the way.

Typical day as a third year consists of the following ingredients: be told to go read, receive annoyed looks from staff that you exist, have patients complain that they don't want to see a medical student, have nurses mock / abuse you, pay $40,000 / year to show up to work.

The thought of starting over again to do an entire 13 more 4 week rotations of this is nauseating.

Edit: there have been 1-2 rotations that were more heavy on teaching which I appreciated very much....unfortunately these are few and far in between.

I understand what you are saying and I may have even had a hint of your attitude at times.

Anyway, rotations and your education are what you make it.

The best physicians continue to improve each clinical day, year after year. They eventually are world class and exceptional. Rotations are no different. I'd like to address a few of your quotes specifically:

I'm sure back in the day rotations were useful because you could learn to write notes etc.

There's no magic recipe to learn to write notes. If there is a computer, you can learn to write notes (EMR or Microsoft Word). No computer? You can write notes on a paper with the essential thought process. And you could even ask for feedback on your notes. An eager student who wants to learn, nearly all doctors and people LOVE to feel like an authority and will be happy to teach eager ears.

You essentially always have an opportunity to improve each day. Do you know all the diagnoses cold? If not, learn them. If so, do you know the most common presenting symptoms? Can you compare the best diagnostic tests? Do you know the best treatments and the prognosis? Can you explain the pathophys to an interested patient in layman's terms?

If you are excellent at all of these, then you are a world class physician in the making. If you're not, you can get better each day at whatever your weakness is.

There is less motivation to have the student do them since everything has to be redone.

The motivation to be excellent has to come from inside. In life, you may not have someone pressuring you to get things done at times. Now would be a good time to learn the skills to motivate yourself without the need of a manager.

Typical day as a third year consists of the following ingredients: be told to go read, receive annoyed looks from staff that you exist, have patients complain that they don't want to see a medical student, have nurses mock / abuse you, pay $40,000 / year to show up to work.

Unfortunately, this is the case sometimes. But again, the student who can find the best in each situation tends to succeed even here. If your staff is annoyed, then find a way to study what is mentioned above. If the nurses are mocking you - find a way to be useful. Being servile or kissing butt is a huge turn off. Yet, one can find ways to be useful and contribute. Do it because that's your character, not because you're getting some eval or reward. Then those you help will reciprocate by teaching and helping you learn skills, improving your day.

Essentially, your rotation is what you make it.

 

[joeDO2]

Thanks for your response jack. I do believe that's the attitude every student should have and I hope that I can start off the new year with that line of thought. I did start off with more of a go-getter type mentality, I guess certain things just wear on you after a while. As an example of a day I had recently... Go into OR, have nurse put tape on surgical hat saying something to the effect of idiot medical student, asked to go get nurses lunch and bring back to department, bring lunch back and receive comments like "oh him glad someone had time to get lunch while everyone else is working". This particular example is not necessarily a problem and I laugh most of these things off without issue. I guess it's just days like this that just wear on you and it sometimes it's seems like I'm making no progress. I know this is not true and there is a light at the end of the tunnel. Remembering that will probably be the best thing about 4th year.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Thanks for your response jack. I do believe that's the attitude every student should have and I hope that I can start off the new year with that line of thought. I did start off with more of a go-getter type mentality, I guess certain things just wear on you after a while. As an example of a day I had recently... Go into OR, have nurse put tape on surgical hat saying something to the effect of idiot medical student, asked to go get nurses lunch and bring back to department, bring lunch back and receive comments like "oh him glad someone had time to get lunch while everyone else is working". This particular example is not necessarily a problem and I laugh most of these things off without issue. I guess it's just days like this that just wear on you and it sometimes it's seems like I'm making no progress. I know this is not true and there is a light at the end of the tunnel. Remembering that will probably be the best thing about 4th year.

WTF? Someone's asking you, the medical student, to retrieve lunches for nurses? Its bad enough when its someone who is supervising you (unless they're paying for your lunch too), but I've never heard of a student being asked to get lunch for the nurses in the OR (and BTW, many hospitals have gone to hiring scrub techs who are most definitely not nurses).

 

[HopefulSpartan]

WTF? Someone's asking you, the medical student, to retrieve lunches for nurses? Its bad enough when its someone who is supervising you (unless they're paying for your lunch too), but I've never heard of a student being asked to get lunch for the nurses in the OR (and BTW, many hospitals have gone to hiring scrub techs who are most definitely not nurses).

This sounds like abuse. What school do you go to OP?

 

[jslo85]

@joeDO2

Let me guess, you're based at a certain hospital in NY?

 

[evilbooyaa]

Thanks for your response jack. I do believe that's the attitude every student should have and I hope that I can start off the new year with that line of thought. I did start off with more of a go-getter type mentality, I guess certain things just wear on you after a while. As an example of a day I had recently... Go into OR, have nurse put tape on surgical hat saying something to the effect of idiot medical student, asked to go get nurses lunch and bring back to department, bring lunch back and receive comments like "oh him glad someone had time to get lunch while everyone else is working". This particular example is not necessarily a problem and I laugh most of these things off without issue. I guess it's just days like this that just wear on you and it sometimes it's seems like I'm making no progress. I know this is not true and there is a light at the end of the tunnel. Remembering that will probably be the best thing about 4th year.

I would tell that nurse, "No way I'm getting you lunch" and report them to the administrator. That kind of behavior is 100% unacceptable, especially from a nurse to a medical student.

I know it's scary to be a medical student and you're trying to not piss anybody off, but you can't let the nurses walk all over you this blatantly. It's one thing for them to make comments about how dumb you are, it's quite another for you to become their personal waiter.

 

[Kaustikos]

I'm just about ready to gear up for 3rd year, and I was really looking forward to rotations. I've done an observership while in my 2nd year and absolutely loved it. I hope you're able to pick some electives where you can really learn and be a part of the team. I would recommend talking to some people and asking which hospitals they have done away rotations and electives and really enjoyed it. Most of my friends who are now residents say that rotations were the best part of their med school experience, hopefully you'll be able to say the same (or at least 4th year). Keep your head up!

Starting third year is VASTLY VASTLY different than starting fourth year. There is a difference between the two years.

As someone who just finished MS4, it is a LOT better in fourth year than third year, at least for me. You might not think that you've learned a lot in third year, but you have. You're able to walk into a patient's room and quickly identify how sick they are, just by looking at them and talking with them for a moment. That's an important skill to have. From this, you'll be able to think about your possible diagnoses (which will still be a long list because we're still so inexperienced) and ask targeted questions to narrow down those diagnoses. Once you begin having success with this process, and can act as a functioning member of the team on your Sub-I (I did mine in medicine, so surgery might be different), attendings will begin to treat you like a resident-lite. They'll tell you to do certain bedside procedures on your patients with the senior's supervision (paracentesis, ABGs, etc), and allow you to make treatment decisions as long as they're not over the top or ridiculous. It's a great feeling to suggest something and to be told, "That sounds good, go ahead and order it." It's also a good feeling to have your senior forget that you're not an intern, which will happen to you if you're diligent enough.

Electives are a lot better because, for the most part, they realize that you're a fourth year and you either have Step 2 to study for, or you're at the point where your attention span has deteriorated and you check out around lunch. So, because of this, they usually let you go in the early afternoon and teaching happens in the morning. This did not apply for me on infectious disease, where I would be in the hospital until 6 or 7 PM finishing notes (this rotation provided me with a tremendous amount of knowledge and experience, however).

I said throughout the year that if I could get paid around 30k per year, I'd just stay in fourth year for the rest of my career because it's so enjoyable (somewhat tongue in cheek). There's a lot of learning, you are treated with some respect, your opinion matters, but ultimately you don't have the same responsibility as a resident in the care for the patient. It's a great time, so enjoy it.

I agree in so far that I've become comfortable with "doing my job" in the sense of the History/Physical Exam to get an idea of to get out of it. I still do miss some questions on initial questioning but I've found that it's not a reflection of a bad performance and honesty tends to work. Don't lie and say you did it when you didn't and just admit you forgot. I've gotten comfortable being able to make a decent assessment and plan that includes the important things to rule out/rule in for a lot of cases.
Things I need to work on - Planning. I know I'm not an intern/resident, but damn does it suck when my plan isn't right. Also - remembering to always meet with your resident/intern before rounding

OP - Fourth year is supposed to be better because you've removed 50% of the stupidity you had starting third year. Despite the anxiety/stress of residency application, I do feel more comfortable working with a team. However, I've also had bad recent experiences that make me remember that there will be times where I'll be treated like **** by upper-levels regardless of my comfort. My internal medicine was just like this - first two weeks was awesome; I was able to get a plan/etc and the team agreed. I was doing great with my patients. The next two weeks were HORRIBLE. The intern had me putting orders in (something I suck at...still. Not because I don't know what to order, but how and I rarely do it) and yelling at me because they weren't right. The resident would just... not let me do anything (lol). Honestly, those two weeks were the nail in the coffin for me for medicine. I started my next month of medicine and basically wanted to quit... thankfully things changed and I had my savior of an attending who basically did everything I wanted to see in an attending and helped me like medicine more.
Given I wanna do surgery; I'm sure I'll be experiencing that more and more.

I understand what you are saying and I may have even had a hint of your attitude at times.

Anyway, rotations and your education are what you make it.

The best physicians continue to improve each clinical day, year after year. They eventually are world class and exceptional. Rotations are no different. I'd like to address a few of your quotes specifically:
There's no magic recipe to learn to write notes. If there is a computer, you can learn to write notes (EMR or Microsoft Word). No computer? You can write notes on a paper with the essential thought process. And you could even ask for feedback on your notes. An eager student who wants to learn, nearly all doctors and people LOVE to feel like an authority and will be happy to teach eager ears.

I'd only state that sometimes learning to write is hampered/impaired by insensitive/uncaring/impatient residents/attendings who don't care to help you or have ridiculous standards so that you don't want to approach them. Otherwise - asking your superiors for advice is always a good thing. I've learned a lot by asking but I've also been burned.
You essentially always have an opportunity to improve each day. Do you know all the diagnoses cold? If not, learn them. If so, do you know the most common presenting symptoms? Can you compare the best diagnostic tests? Do you know the best treatments and the prognosis? Can you explain the pathophys to an interested patient in layman's terms?
Keeping that mentality is key, but there are days where you just don't care and want to quit.
If you are excellent at all of these, then you are a world class physician in the making. If you're not, you can get better each day at whatever your weakness is.
The motivation to be excellent has to come from inside. In life, you may not have someone pressuring you to get things done at times. Now would be a good time to learn the skills to motivate yourself without the need of a manager.

Unfortunately, this is the case sometimes. But again, the student who can find the best in each situation tends to succeed even here. If your staff is annoyed, then find a way to study what is mentioned above. If the nurses are mocking you - find a way to be useful. Being servile or kissing butt is a huge turn off. Yet, one can find ways to be useful and contribute. Do it because that's your character, not because you're getting some eval or reward. Then those you help will reciprocate by teaching and helping you learn skills, improving your day.

Essentially, your rotation is what you make it.

I agree for the most part but I can also understand the mentality the student feels of being burned and the impact it can have. Bolded response in quotes.

WTF? Someone's asking you, the medical student, to retrieve lunches for nurses? Its bad enough when its someone who is supervising you (unless they're paying for your lunch too), but I've never heard of a student being asked to get lunch for the nurses in the OR (and BTW, many hospitals have gone to hiring scrub techs who are most definitely not nurses).

Yeah,
I mean, I don't have a problem getting coffee/etc for the team if I like you or if I'm going to get it for myself anyways. But if you come up and command me to do it... then you deserve exlax in your coffee.

 

[Top Gun]

Thanks for your response jack. I do believe that's the attitude every student should have and I hope that I can start off the new year with that line of thought. I did start off with more of a go-getter type mentality, I guess certain things just wear on you after a while. As an example of a day I had recently... Go into OR, have nurse put tape on surgical hat saying something to the effect of idiot medical student, asked to go get nurses lunch and bring back to department, bring lunch back and receive comments like "oh him glad someone had time to get lunch while everyone else is working". This particular example is not necessarily a problem and I laugh most of these things off without issue. I guess it's just days like this that just wear on you and it sometimes it's seems like I'm making no progress. I know this is not true and there is a light at the end of the tunnel. Remembering that will probably be the best thing about 4th year.

You ought to speak to the clerkship director if this kind of $hit is happening. This is abuse, and its not acceptable. Had the nurse tried putting the idiot med student label on me and then ordered me to bring her lunch, I would have told her, "No. First you label me an idiot, then you order me to bring you lunch. This is abuse, and I don't have to accept it. I will be speaking with my clerkship director later."

 

[@JackShephard]

Starting third year is VASTLY VASTLY different than starting fourth year. There is a difference between the two years.




I agree in so far that I've become comfortable with "doing my job" in the sense of the History/Physical Exam to get an idea of to get out of it. I still do miss some questions on initial questioning but I've found that it's not a reflection of a bad performance and honesty tends to work. Don't lie and say you did it when you didn't and just admit you forgot. I've gotten comfortable being able to make a decent assessment and plan that includes the important things to rule out/rule in for a lot of cases.
Things I need to work on - Planning. I know I'm not an intern/resident, but damn does it suck when my plan isn't right. Also - remembering to always meet with your resident/intern before rounding

OP - Fourth year is supposed to be better because you've removed 50% of the stupidity you had starting third year. Despite the anxiety/stress of residency application, I do feel more comfortable working with a team. However, I've also had bad recent experiences that make me remember that there will be times where I'll be treated like **** by upper-levels regardless of my comfort. My internal medicine was just like this - first two weeks was awesome; I was able to get a plan/etc and the team agreed. I was doing great with my patients. The next two weeks were HORRIBLE. The intern had me putting orders in (something I suck at...still. Not because I don't know what to order, but how and I rarely do it) and yelling at me because they weren't right. The resident would just... not let me do anything (lol). Honestly, those two weeks were the nail in the coffin for me for medicine. I started my next month of medicine and basically wanted to quit... thankfully things changed and I had my savior of an attending who basically did everything I wanted to see in an attending and helped me like medicine more.
Given I wanna do surgery; I'm sure I'll be experiencing that more and more.



I agree for the most part but I can also understand the mentality the student feels of being burned and the impact it can have. Bolded response in quotes.



Yeah,
I mean, I don't have a problem getting coffee/etc for the team if I like you or if I'm going to get it for myself anyways. But if you come up and command me to do it... then you deserve exlax in your coffee.

I also agree with you.

I was stating the ideal. But yes, we are all human - and sometimes were burned out either emotionally, physically or spiritually.

I look at it like my diet, if I can eat good foods 80-90% of the time, I'm doing well. Same with this, if you can be motivated 80-90% of the time - you're doing well.

Also, this whole idea of being an errand boy for the nurse is ridiculous and worth following up.

 

[joeDO2]

Thanks everyone for your replies on this. It does seem like some have had some really good experiences out there...and I have had a few as well. I made the decision to not make waves as a 3rd yr for better or worse. Didn't feel it would be productive to my carreer. It's funny how for those of us who have had medical type jobs in the past, once you further your education for several more years suddenly you actually lose respect. It's over now and I have a great variety of audition locations coming up in the specialty I'm hoping to match so I'm sure it will be better.

 

[Dr. Zombie]

Nurse put a written label on my uniform saying "idiot medical student"? I would've grabbed my iPhone, taken a picture, and reported it to the appropriate administrators. It would've ended right there, without giving her a chance to ask me to bring lunch.

I think we've all busted our ass to get to where we are, and the last thing I'm gonna do is let some online-degree'd b!tch think she's better than me. (sorry but reading that infuriated me).

 

[Brain Bucket]

So, while you guys are having these experiences, where are your fellow MS3/4s? They don't have your back?

 

[evilbooyaa]

So, while you guys are having these experiences, where are your fellow MS3/4s? They don't have your back?

With the nurse example above, there is generally one medical student per OR, so there's nothing directly that can be done. If I heard about a story like that in person, I would recommend doing the same thing I recommended here. Getting in the nurses face isn't going to end well for you. It sounds crappy, but you have to go 'I need an adult!'

 

[Brain Bucket]

With the nurse example above, there is generally one medical student per OR, so there's nothing directly that can be done. If I heard about a story like that in person, I would recommend doing the same thing I recommended here. Getting in the nurses face isn't going to end well for you. It sounds crappy, but you have to go 'I need an adult!'

lol, i don't mean pick a fight with the nurse.

 

[KnuxNole]

So, while you guys are having these experiences, where are your fellow MS3/4s? They don't have your back?

They do, but all they can do is stand there awkwardly and watch.

 

[Kaustikos]

Nurse put a written label on my uniform saying "idiot medical student"? I would've grabbed my iPhone, taken a picture, and reported it to the appropriate administrators. It would've ended right there, without giving her a chance to ask me to bring lunch.

I think we've all busted our ass to get to where we are, and the last thing I'm gonna do is let some online-degree'd b!tch think she's better than me. (sorry but reading that infuriated me).

It all depends on the context. A prank like "idiot medical student" sign can be misinterpreted as mean by some people... but if the staff in the OR have a sense of humor like that, then it's not necessarily them outing you but just teasing/poking fun. Actually, it can even be thought of as an inclusion-esque practice if you can handle it. If that had happened to me, I'd of replied "Wait... this is misleading. Medical Students are already idiots... Why the double negative?"

So, while you guys are having these experiences, where are your fellow MS3/4s? They don't have your back?

Ha. Hell no. Short of murder, we'll never do anything to back students. I mean, if the student was being harassed physically/mentally, I wouldn't approach it.

 

[Bacchus]

That sucks you've had a poor experience. I'm also at a DO school.

My 3rd year and beginning of 4th year have been the complete opposite. On every rotation I've had I've been responsible for patient care, writing notes that the residents and attendants look at and go over with me, doctors teaching throughout the day, etc.

I think rotations are absolutely crucial and I've learned a lot on a daily basis. I can also see the difference in knowledge base between 3rd and 4th years.

Maybe it's because I'm in a city with a lot of medical schools support staff and patients are typically welcoming to students also.

Hopefully at least during your electives you can go to some solid rotations.

Our school just does it better. I'm glad to see you're into 4th year now (I assume).

 

[HooliganSnail]

Thanks for your response jack. I do believe that's the attitude every student should have and I hope that I can start off the new year with that line of thought. I did start off with more of a go-getter type mentality, I guess certain things just wear on you after a while. As an example of a day I had recently... Go into OR, have nurse put tape on surgical hat saying something to the effect of idiot medical student, asked to go get nurses lunch and bring back to department, bring lunch back and receive comments like "oh him glad someone had time to get lunch while everyone else is working". This particular example is not necessarily a problem and I laugh most of these things off without issue. I guess it's just days like this that just wear on you and it sometimes it's seems like I'm making no progress. I know this is not true and there is a light at the end of the tunnel. Remembering that will probably be the best thing about 4th year.

I had almost the same experience throughout third and fourth year. You will never look back on it with anything other than anger. I remember having symptoms consistent with clinical depression. I dreaded going in every day. It was all so pointless. And the worst part was that all of your friends and family just keep throwing platitudes at you like "enjoy it, because soon you will be working non-stop", or "well you will get through it". The whole time you just want to scream.

The only thing I took out of it is to engage the medical student. Any medicals student that is on my team will always be included in patient care, even if it means more work for me. I don't want anyone to go through med school like I did.

Hang in there man. Everything gets better, and all of a sudden you are actually a doctor, and all those people who cast you aside need you to write orders and to make decisions and it is so awesome.

It's like crawling through the river of **** and coming out clean.

 

[Psai]

I had almost the same experience throughout third and fourth year. You will never look back on it with anything other than anger. I remember having symptoms consistent with clinical depression. I dreaded going in every day. It was all so pointless. And the worst part was that all of your friends and family just keep throwing platitudes at you like "enjoy it, because soon you will be working non-stop", or "well you will get through it". The whole time you just want to scream.

The only thing I took out of it is to engage the medical student. Any medicals student that is on my team will always be included in patient care, even if it means more work for me. I don't want anyone to go through med school like I did.

Hang in there man. Everything gets better, and all of a sudden you are actually a doctor, and all those people who cast you aside need you to write orders and to make decisions and it is so awesome.

It's like crawling through the river of **** and coming out clean.

Basically the shawshank redemption then

 

[HooliganSnail]

Basically the shawshank redemption then

I am glad someone picked up on that reference