RVUCOM VS. AZCOM

[pg22aw]

So I have acceptance offers from Midwestern AZCOM and RVUCOM for the class of 2019. RVU supposedly has better scores this year and higher passing rate, and I prefer the Denver area over Phoenix area, but Midwestern is more well known and proven to be successful. Which one should I choose? Thanks!

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[nwciowa]

Midwestern is more well known and successful? You just said yourself RVU has better scores and a higher passing rate. No one can possibly make this decision for you but it sounds like your mind is made up.

 

[AlteredScale]

Things to consider

-Hospital Affiliation:
http://www.rockyvistauniversity.org/dept_clinicalmed.asp
vs.
https://www.midwestern.edu/programs...the-program/clinical-education-rotations.html

-Match Lists:
http://www.rockyvistauniversity.org/PDFs/Residency_MatchList_2014.pdf
vs.
https://www.midwestern.edu/programs-and-admission/az-osteopathic-medicine.html

-Research availability

-Being affiliated with other health professions (MWU Glendale has a ton of programs vs. RVUCOM being just the COM)

As said above and as I have heard from many; board scores are a huge determining factor in landing a competitive speciality. RVUCOM has since proven themselves to succeed in this aspect.

Hopefully this helps!

 

[Awesome Sauceome]

Lets talk money here: hows tuition and cost of living look for these two schools?

 

[SkipJunior]

RVUCOM is cheaper I believe and also in a more fun location.

 

[D4C]

So I have acceptance offers from Midwestern AZCOM and RVUCOM for the class of 2019. RVU supposedly has better scores this year and higher passing rate, and I prefer the Denver area over Phoenix area, but Midwestern is more well known and proven to be successful. Which one should I choose? Thanks!

Better scores for what? AZCOM has a 98/96% pass rate for level1/step1 for the 2016 students.

 

[jqueb29]

RVU is kinda sketchy

 

[AlteredScale]

RVU is kinda sketchy

In what way?

 

[baxt1412]

In what way?

in for this as well. from the looks online, RVUCOM seems really nice

 

[jqueb29]

in for this as well. from the looks online, RVUCOM seems really nice

Maybe they've improved but they just seemed sketchy to me when I applied. They're a for-profit med school and easily had the worst online application experience of any school I applied to along with being the worst to get in contact with about questions, which indicated sketchy prioritization on their part to me

 

[Haxx]

So I'm an OMS-I at RVU, so I'm obviously going to be biased here, but here's my $.02.

RVU does have the highest first time Step 1 COMLEX pass rate in the nation. It's a fact. 100% this year. They also were second on average COMLEX step 1 score, being only 2 points away from first.

Denver is awesome. My wife and I live in Aurora (splitting the difference in my commute vs. hers) and we love it. We have a 3 bedroom house rented with a fenced in back yard for a very reasonable price. We love good food, and there are all kinds of good places to eat in the Denver metro, whether you're looking for $2 authentic street tacos or a 5 course tasting menu at a trendy restaurant in downtown.

EVERYONE at school is active. I can't even count the number of students who blow off steam every weekend by going up into the mountains to hike/camp/highline/etc.
Not to mention that ski season is coming up and there isn't a classmate of mine that I know of who doesn't have the EPIC pass. Outdoor life here is amazing for blowing off steam from school.

Our curriculum rocks. We have really qualified profs who aren't full of themselves and are willing to even come in on weekends to lead small tutor sessions if there is interest in it. They know that the better we do, the better they look. It's a win-win for everyone.

The people here are awesome. My classmates are cooperative instead of competitive, and everyone is easy to get along with. We have a class fb page where people are constantly sharing links to videos with good learning tricks, putting up google docs with drawings they did, and posting excel spreadsheets of all of the stuff we need to learn laid out in an easy format.

Finally, I want to address the "sketchy" issue. Yes, our website is pretty crappy. Not gonna argue that. The only thing I can say is that we never ever use it. We have interactive calendars that are updated with the lecture slides, video recordings, podcasts of lectures (to listed to while skiing) and much more. Our tech is solid, and our website doesn't show that. Some of the people in our class have sent feedback to our admins about it, and hopefully it will be updated in the future.

I love RVU if you couldn't tell, but I understand that it's not gonna be the best fit for everyone, so go with your gut. I have buddies who love AZCOM as well. Good luck!

So that's what I've got. I know there was stuff I didn't get to, but if you have any questions, feel free to message me or whatever. I'll get to it when I have a study break. Cheers!

 

[tabbycatdontcur]

@Haxx I am waiting on my interview and I really hope I get one because I like everything that you said, but can you talk about what older students have said about the ideas of a for profit school from preceptors and medical faculty? Just wondering if it can be a hindrance from getting any residencies.

 

[Haxx]

@Haxx I am waiting on my interview and I really hope I get one because I like everything that you said, but can you talk about what older students have said about the ideas of a for profit school from preceptors and medical faculty? Just wondering if it can be a hindrance from getting any residencies.

The for-profit status is only a big deal to premeds and doomsday preppers. Who cares if the money goes to a private group or just gets sloughed off onto the CEO and President? Our facilities are great, we have great board scores and residency placement, and when we ask for something to be changed, the school can respond to us without slogging through the piles of red tape that most schools would have to. It's a win-win for everyone.

 

[yanks26dmb]

Maybe they've improved but they just seemed sketchy to me when I applied. They're a for-profit med school and easily had the worst online application experience of any school I applied to along with being the worst to get in contact with about questions, which indicated sketchy prioritization on their part to me

The school is for-profit due to political reasons. Something about limiting the number of non-profit medical schools in the state of Colorado. At least this is what my physician shadow told me. Take it for what it's worth. Personally, I think it's a great school and I would have been happy to have gotten an ii here.

 

[baxt1412]

yeah anyone who believes that non-profit automatically = so charitable, etc is gravely mistaken. my UG was private and "not for profit" while the president made over 500k a year while getting housing, clothing, transport, etc paid for.

 

[feeling-dizzy]

For-profit vs. non-profit. Do your own math

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

Things to consider

-Being affiliated with other health professions (MWU Glendale has a ton of programs vs. RVUCOM being just the COM)

Nah, don't even consider being affiliated with other health professions as positive . It brings no benefit. In fact, it brings more pain. For example, over here it means classes are more saturated since we share with podiatry and dentistry students. It means we waste time in garbage like IPE where a bunch of people that have no idea about what their profession does (because they haven't rotated or learned it) will waste 2 or 3 hours discussing what their profession does (mostly via regurgitating what Wikipedia says).

 

[AlteredScale]

Nah, don't even consider being affiliated with other health professions as positive . It brings no benefit. In fact, it brings more pain. For example, over here it means classes are more saturated since we share with podiatry and dentistry students. It means we waste time in garbage like IPE where a bunch of people that have no idea about what their profession does (because they haven't rotated or learned it) will waste 2 or 3 hours discussing what their profession does (mostly via regurgitating what Wikipedia says).

Ah very true. Man I'm sorry to hear you have to deal with that!

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

Ah very true. Man I'm sorry to hear you have to deal with that!

It sucks, and you'll understand soon enough if you are unlucky to go to a school that keeps shoving activities that waste time while we should be studying for the upcoming test.

 

[Prncssbuttercup]

So I'm an OMSIII at RVU:
1. the match list for AZCOM is for several years, the list for RVU is for ONE year.
2. The FP vs NP BS, yes RVU is FP, it's not the best thing, many people wish we weren't because it would end the never-ending cycle of BS related to 'but they're FP'... Our dean drives a modest SUV, the nicest car a FT faculty member has is an Audi (pathologist who still practices outside of school) or a corvette (FP who only works at RVU with no outside practice), they have modest salaries, and the owner isn't raking in cash hand over fist because he has to pay off all the bills it cost to build the school. In addition to having to put up the first four and a half years of student loan money for at least 2/3s of the students. Yeah, sounds like a horrible guy...
3. RVU is in Denver, it doesn't get 800K outside in the summer. Your swimming pool will stay a lovely 80º instead of being as warm as a hot tub in Phoenix in the summer. The downside, yes it will snow in Denver in the winter, and could even get what people in CO consider cold. People in MN don't consider -10º cold, but CO people think hell has frozen over. Also, that is rare, most winters are mild and have the coldest temps above 0.
4. RVU has NEVER been slow in replying to emails. Every person I know who has sent Julie or Katy (or Janelle) emails whether they are students or not, have heard back from them within the day, unless it's the weekend or the evening. They call people at 9pm at night to tell them they were accepted. Yes clearly they sound remiss in their duties.

OP, pick the one that feels right to you, no school is perfect, you will have things you do and don't like about any school once you're in, just like anything else... So pick the one that feels the best, and be happy with the decision and the chance to get in!

 

[AlteredScale]

So I'm an OMSIII at RVU:
1. the match list for AZCOM is for several years, the list for RVU is for ONE year.
2. The FP vs NP BS, yes RVU is FP, it's not the best thing, many people wish we weren't because it would end the never-ending cycle of BS related to 'but they're FP'... Our dean drives a modest SUV, the nicest car a FT faculty member has is an Audi (pathologist who still practices outside of school) or a corvette (FP who only works at RVU with no outside practice), they have modest salaries, and the owner isn't raking in cash hand over fist because he has to pay off all the bills it cost to build the school. In addition to having to put up the first four and a half years of student loan money for at least 2/3s of the students. Yeah, sounds like a horrible guy...
3. RVU is in Denver, it doesn't get 800K outside in the summer. Your swimming pool will stay a lovely 80º instead of being as warm as a hot tub in Phoenix in the summer. The downside, yes it will snow in Denver in the winter, and could even get what people in CO consider cold. People in MN don't consider -10º cold, but CO people think hell has frozen over. Also, that is rare, most winters are mild and have the coldest temps above 0.
4. RVU has NEVER been slow in replying to emails. Every person I know who has sent Julie or Katy (or Janelle) emails whether they are students or not, have heard back from them within the day, unless it's the weekend or the evening. They call people at 9pm at night to tell them they were accepted. Yes clearly they sound remiss in their duties.

OP, pick the one that feels right to you, no school is perfect, you will have things you do and don't like about any school once you're in, just like anything else... So pick the one that feels the best, and be happy with the decision and the chance to get in!

Thanks for this info! Could you briefly cover the curriculum? How is it taught?

 

[Prncssbuttercup]

Thanks for this info! Could you briefly cover the curriculum? How is it taught?

The curriculum is a systems-based program, but it's a bit different than the standard systems-based curriculum. They go over all the normal anatomy and physiology in the first year for every system, then in the second year it is all the path and pharm for every system. This is what is believed to be the reason that the scores are as high as they are, most of our students could probably pass the boards without studying for them. Obviously their scores would be lower, but passing is passing. It is primarily lecture based, but most lectures are optional, but that isn't 100%.

 

[pg22aw]

Thanks for everyone's input. I think I will choose RVU over AZCOM. I'm excited to be a medical student!

 

[tabbycatdontcur]

The curriculum is a systems-based program, but it's a bit different than the standard systems-based curriculum. They go over all the normal anatomy and physiology in the first year for every system, then in the second year it is all the path and pharm for every system. This is what is believed to be the reason that the scores are as high as they are, most of our students could probably pass the boards without studying for them. Obviously their scores would be lower, but passing is passing. It is primarily lecture based, but most lectures are optional, but that isn't 100%.

is there group learning involved?

 

[Haxx]

is there group learning involved?

Not per se, but they leave you with the freedom to approach the info however you're best suited to learn it, which I appreciate immensely.

 

[D4C]

So I'm an OMSIII at RVU:
1. the match list for AZCOM is for several years, the list for RVU is for ONE year.
2. The FP vs NP BS, yes RVU is FP, it's not the best thing, many people wish we weren't because it would end the never-ending cycle of BS related to 'but they're FP'... Our dean drives a modest SUV, the nicest car a FT faculty member has is an Audi (pathologist who still practices outside of school) or a corvette (FP who only works at RVU with no outside practice), they have modest salaries, and the owner isn't raking in cash hand over fist because he has to pay off all the bills it cost to build the school. In addition to having to put up the first four and a half years of student loan money for at least 2/3s of the students. Yeah, sounds like a horrible guy...
3. RVU is in Denver, it doesn't get 800K outside in the summer. Your swimming pool will stay a lovely 80º instead of being as warm as a hot tub in Phoenix in the summer. The downside, yes it will snow in Denver in the winter, and could even get what people in CO consider cold. People in MN don't consider -10º cold, but CO people think hell has frozen over. Also, that is rare, most winters are mild and have the coldest temps above 0.
4. RVU has NEVER been slow in replying to emails. Every person I know who has sent Julie or Katy (or Janelle) emails whether they are students or not, have heard back from them within the day, unless it's the weekend or the evening. They call people at 9pm at night to tell them they were accepted. Yes clearly they sound remiss in their duties.

OP, pick the one that feels right to you, no school is perfect, you will have things you do and don't like about any school once you're in, just like anything else... So pick the one that feels the best, and be happy with the decision and the chance to get in!

Not everyone can play with the fire birds .

 

[keevwu]

azcom tuition is 58k a year. factor that in too.

 

[Prncssbuttercup]

Which translates into a 94k COA... *cough cough*...

 

[sandstone]

RVU OMS-III here. RVU is not sketchy. I've been overall very happy with RVU. It prepared me to crush COMLEX and USMLE while allowing for a decent lifestyle since most lectures are not required. So far rotations have been excellent. We have a lot of quality rotation sites with great preceptors in big hospitals where you get to see a lot of stuff.

 

[SkipJunior]

Thanks for everyone's input. I think I will choose RVU over AZCOM. I'm excited to be a medical student!

Congrats! I'm sure you will have a great time at RVU!

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

Congrats! I'm sure you will have a great time at RVU!

You're back

 

[SkipJunior]

You're back

Yes, people have been asking if I'm back and I haven't been sure till now but yes, I'm thinking I'm back now.

Hope you get the John Wick reference.

 

[jsmith522]

So the big question with all of us that have chosen RVU 2019 as our class and school is when are we going to bite the bullet and dare I say it get a facebook page together.

 

[Haxx]

So the big question with all of us that have chosen RVU 2019 as our class and school is when are we going to bite the bullet and dare I say it get a facebook page together.

An official one will be started closer to the school year that we use ALL OF THE TIME. Don't worry about it, it's still REALLY early in the cycle.

 

[chizledfrmstone]

AZCOM is a great school and I met some really top notch students there when I interview. Unfortunately the tuition is absurd.

RVU isn't a bad school. They have a great curriculum and nice board scores. There is one sketchy thing on their website. It lists their contact email as [email protected] but the actual link is [email protected]

It's not a big issue but it does bother me that they would make up a edu email address to look more legitimate.

At least ACOM has the decency to put [email protected]

 

[acapnial]

AZCOM is a great school and I met some really top notch students there when I interview. Unfortunately the tuition is absurd.

RVU isn't a bad school. They have a great curriculum and nice board scores. There is one sketchy thing on their website. It lists their contact email as [email protected] but the actual link is [email protected]

It's not a big issue but it does bother me that they would make up a edu email address to look more legitimate.

At least ACOM has the decency to put [email protected]

The website is pretty awful. But RVU did get .edu email when it became fully accredited a few years ago. My email certainly has .edu at the end of it. Why are they sticking with their .org email? Beats me. One glance at the website should tell you the school isn't exactly packed wall to wall with tech savvy people.




As for AZCOM, I was accepted to both schools too and I also chose RVU. AZCOM is a great school, but I liked RVU a little better. No regrets.

 

[Prncssbuttercup]

Either email address will actually work. It doesn't really matter.

 

[Seth Joo]

So I have acceptance offers from Midwestern AZCOM and RVUCOM for the class of 2019. RVU supposedly has better scores this year and higher passing rate, and I prefer the Denver area over Phoenix area, but Midwestern is more well known and proven to be successful. Which one should I choose? Thanks!

I am at AZCOM, so my reply will be somewhat biased. I would pick AZCOM over RVU easily. RVU is a for profit school, I believe the owner of RVU also has a medical school in the Caribbean. There are a lot of people in the DO community who are uncomfortable with the idea of a for profit medical school.

 

[SkipJunior]

I am at AZCOM, so my reply will be somewhat biased. I would pick AZCOM over RVU easily. RVU is a for profit school, I believe the owner of RVU also has a medical school in the Caribbean. There are a lot of people in the DO community who are uncomfortable with the idea of a for profit medical school.

which medical school in the Caribbean?

 

[Haxx]

I am at AZCOM, so my reply will be somewhat biased. I would pick AZCOM over RVU easily. RVU is a for profit school, I believe the owner of RVU also has a medical school in the Caribbean. There are a lot of people in the DO community who are uncomfortable with the idea of a for profit medical school.

Only somewhat biased?

 

[Seth Joo]

which medical school in the Caribbean?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yife_Tien

This is a bio of the founder of RVU, he is a graduate of a Caribbean medical school and his father built a school in the Caribbean.

Given the fact that Osteopathic Medicine has made some great strides forward, I really do not like the idea of some "Entrepreneur" opening up a medical school as if it were a McDonald's franchise.

Anyway many of the DO schools that are non-profit are also operating in a similar manner even though they are technically non profits.

 

[Haxx]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yife_Tien

This is a bio of the founder of RVU, he is a graduate of a Caribbean medical school and his father built a school in the Caribbean.

Sweet. Tell me about what that has to do with my education. I'd like some concrete reasons, please.

 

[Seth Joo]

Sweet. Tell me about what that has to do with my education. I'd like some concrete reasons, please.

I just said I am uncomfortable with the existence of for profit medical schools in the United States, its sets a precedent where higher education is becoming a "product". I am also against the idea of DO schools opening up multiple branch campuses. I currently attend a school that is a branch of Midwestern University, a school which is actually in the Southwest United States.

 

[Haxx]

I just said I am uncomfortable with the existence of for profit medical schools in the United States, its sets a precedent where higher education is becoming a "product". I am also against the idea of DO schools opening up multiple branch campuses. I currently attend a school that is a branch of Midwestern University, a school which is actually in the Southwest United States.

Fair enough. I thought so.

 

[Seth Joo]

Fair enough. I thought so.

I believe that colleges and universities should exist to provide a public good and better the societies they serve, they should not be run like fast food franchises, banks, car dealerships, or other for profit enterprises.

That being said many non profit schools and other non profit institutions rake in a lot of money, the only thing is they cannot issue stock or give dividends to investors.

 

[Haxx]

I believe that colleges and universities should exist to provide a public good and better the societies they serve, they should not be run like fast food franchises, banks, car dealerships, or other for profit enterprises.

That being said many non profit schools and other non profit institutions rake in a lot of money, the only thing is they cannot issue stock or give dividends to investors.

That's a good explanation of your stance. I appreciate that. I'm just sick of people being in a tiff about for profit status just because it's different and other people are.

 

[Prncssbuttercup]

So just remember, you said 'there are a lot of people in the DO community' but really you can only speak for yourself. I work with docs all the time that just shrug their shoulders and say they don't really care. Hospitals and insurance companies are largely for-profit and you still use them...

 

[acapnial]

I believe that colleges and universities should exist to provide a public good and better the societies they serve, they should not be run like fast food franchises, banks, car dealerships, or other for profit enterprises.

That being said many non profit schools and other non profit institutions rake in a lot of money, the only thing is they cannot issue stock or give dividends to investors.

What public good do the other COM's provide that RVU does not?

 

[Seth Joo]

That's a good explanation of your stance. I appreciate that. I'm just sick of people being in a tiff about for profit status just because it's different and other people are.

I was reading about Dr. Tien, his father was a wealthy man and his son was unable to get into medical school in the 1970s, so he went to a school on a poor third world island. He apparently did not like the living conditions that his son had to endure and formed a medical school on a more developed island.

Anyway this guy is minting money, but I prefer that the AOA does not help him finance his lifestyle.