Salaries for DO vs. MD

[Taj]

Agreed. Taj - I hope I answered your original question about MD versus DO salaries and I hope that you enjoy your career as a physician if that is ultimately what you end up doing.

I am starting my DO/MBA program in August. I have been in healthcare finance for the last 8 years doing financial assessments of hospitals and physician practices. I have consulted with the managers, hospital CEO's and CFO's, and physician owners to thoroughly understand how they manage their businesses. Ultimately, I will end up in my spare time volunteering on a hospital's board of directors and consulting for other physicians as to put this knowledge to good use. So here we go:

How much money you will make as a physician will depend on:

1.) Whether or not you decide to work for a hospital or have your own practice.

2.) If you have good business and people skills, then you will most likely make more money having your own practice.

3.) If you go into a specialty, most likely you will make more money but again, this all has to do with how well you manage your practice. If you can't collect the cash from insurance companies, than you won't have the cash on hand regardless if you billed for it 3 months prior. I recommend hiring a good billing manager or factoring your receivables. That way, you won't spend time trying to collect from insurance companies, which can be difficult.

4.) Both DO/MD's bill insurance companies the same amount of money for the same procedure. Hence, the money that you make depends on how many patients you see, what type of case mix you have (eg, what type of procedures you do), and the amount of operating expenses you incur (eg, equipment expenses, staff and employee benefit expenses, supply expenses, malpractice insurance premiums, rent expense, etc.).

5.) There is no set difference in salaries that hospitals pay for physicians. The hospital annually budgets a certain amount for physician salary expense. They do not have separate budgets for DO salaries versus MD salaries. Ultimately, the salary of the physician (MD or DO) is determined by the negotiating skills of the physician and hospital during the hiring process.

6.) Also I will expand on location a little bit. If you set up a location in an area where there are many physician practices, you will have to compete for patients. There are many factors that will determine the intensity of competition including population size, participation in insurance networks that you are in, etc. However, if you set up shop as a specialist in an area that has no other or very few other physician practices of your specialty, you will probably make more money because many patients will go to the closest doctor for convenience. Some people will travel, but many people will go to a doctor who is near their job or home. Also, you need to find out what types of insurance networks are most popular in the area where you set up your practice. Many people call their insurance companies to find a doctor in their area. If you participate in their plans, then you will get patient referrals from insurance companies in your area.

5.) Specialists usually make more money because they can bill more for procedures they perform.

6.) If you go into family practice, you will most likely end up doing procedures that you will bill less for, so you will have to make it up by seeing more patients or doing more complex procedures. Additionally, if you are located in urban areas or rural areas, you can become a designated rural care provider or disproportionate share provider so you automatically get to bill a higher rate versus the allotted DRG ("Diagnostic Related Group", aka, set amount of money that Medicare will pay for a specific procedure).

Hope that helps answer your question a little more precisely.

wow thanks for replying, that was good info. good luck to you!!

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[Funkdoctor]

They have more training than 90% of other professionals, and they take it up the rear from HMO's and insurance as a result.

90% is about the biggest understatement I have ever heard! How many other professions require 4 years undergrad+ 4 years medical school+ 3-7 years of residency+ possible 2-3 year fellowship. That means that an MD or DO has an average of 11-18 years of training to get to where they can practice on their own. Not to mention that during this period of time finances for many (including myself) are a real big struggle, and the doctor in training has to give up the vast majority of the prime of their life. (60-80 hours a week in residency, I am assuming 60-80 hours of total learning time (studying & classroom) a week in med school, plus full time job, heavy course loads and much studying in undergrad (for me around 70-75 hours a week).

Yeah, doctors should definitely feel guilty about making 200K+ a year. After all the athlete is more deserving, or how about good ol' John Edwards. There is a guy who has done society a lot of good, like sue the pants off of the medical community so everyones healthcare costs go up, and finally because of guys like him X amount of people in the U.S. are too cheap to purchase healthcare (same people I see putting 22's on their trucks in my neighborhood, people that are far from rich) so the same good ol' John Edwards can talk about the healthcare crisis in America and how greedy doctors are. All I can say is only in America!

P.S. everyone who thinks 100k a year will get you far nowadays, that is fine and dandy if you plan on living VERY VERY frugal. Sure you could live on 100k/year if you drive a hoopty, live in a little apartment, never spend money on entertainment, buy the cheapest of everything then, and don't mind not being able to help family or friends out financially! Do not forget that a 200k a year loan payment will eat up 13,500-20,000k a year on regular payments on a 30 year amoritization schedule (which means you will have to work AT LEAST 30 years). You also need to remember that taxes EAT away BIG TIME on your gross income, there are many taxes that you must pay that you haven't even thought of yet. You must also set aside a good chunk of change if you plan on retiring. The bottom line is money doesn't go as far as you might think it does, especially when you are sitting on heavy debt!

 

[Belfagor]

90% is about the biggest understatement I have ever heard! How many other professions require 4 years undergrad+ 4 years medical school+ 3-7 years of residency+ possible 2-3 year fellowship. That means that an MD or DO has an average of 11-18 years of training to get to where they can practice on their own. Not to mention that during this period of time finances for many (including myself) are a real big struggle, and the doctor in training has to give up the vast majority of the prime of their life. (60-80 hours a week in residency, I am assuming 60-80 hours of total learning time (studying & classroom) a week in med school, plus full time job, heavy course loads and much studying in undergrad (for me around 70-75 hours a week).

Yeah, doctors should definitely feel guilty about making 200K+ a year. After all the athlete is more deserving, or how about good ol' John Edwards. There is a guy who has done society a lot of good, like sue the pants off of the medical community so everyones healthcare costs go up, and finally because of guys like him X amount of people in the U.S. are too cheap to purchase healthcare (same people I see putting 22's on their trucks in my neighborhood, people that are far from rich) so the same good ol' John Edwards can talk about the healthcare crisis in America and how greedy doctors are. All I can say is only in America!

P.S. everyone who thinks 100k a year will get you far nowadays, that is fine and dandy if you plan on living VERY VERY frugal. Sure you could live on 100k/year if you drive a hoopty, live in a little apartment, never spend money on entertainment, buy the cheapest of everything then, and don't mind not being able to help family or friends out financially! Do not forget that a 200k a year loan payment will eat up 13,500-20,000k a year on regular payments on a 30 year amoritization schedule (which means you will have to work AT LEAST 30 years). You also need to remember that taxes EAT away BIG TIME on your gross income, there are many taxes that you must pay that you haven't even thought of yet. You must also set aside a good chunk of change if you plan on retiring. The bottom line is money doesn't go as far as you might think it does, especially when you are sitting on heavy debt!

Great post. I used 90% as a relative percentage so that patchouli-scented esp wouldn't toss his hacky-sack at me as he claimed that tibetan monks meditate for about the same amount of time (or some other caveat that someone will most likely think of).

 

[espbeliever]

Great post. I used 90% as a relative percentage so that patchouli-scented esp wouldn't toss his hacky-sack at me as he claimed that tibetan monks meditate for about the same amount of time (or some other caveat that someone will most likely think of).

that was pretty funny

and i actually like that woodsy smell of patchouli

 

[espbeliever]

90% is about the biggest understatement I have ever heard! How many other professions require 4 years undergrad+ 4 years medical school+ 3-7 years of residency+ possible 2-3 year fellowship. That means that an MD or DO has an average of 11-18 years of training to get to where they can practice on their own. Not to mention that during this period of time finances for many (including myself) are a real big struggle, and the doctor in training has to give up the vast majority of the prime of their life. (60-80 hours a week in residency, I am assuming 60-80 hours of total learning time (studying & classroom) a week in med school, plus full time job, heavy course loads and much studying in undergrad (for me around 70-75 hours a week).

Yeah, doctors should definitely feel guilty about making 200K+ a year. After all the athlete is more deserving, or how about good ol' John Edwards. There is a guy who has done society a lot of good, like sue the pants off of the medical community so everyones healthcare costs go up, and finally because of guys like him X amount of people in the U.S. are too cheap to purchase healthcare (same people I see putting 22's on their trucks in my neighborhood, people that are far from rich) so the same good ol' John Edwards can talk about the healthcare crisis in America and how greedy doctors are. All I can say is only in America!

P.S. everyone who thinks 100k a year will get you far nowadays, that is fine and dandy if you plan on living VERY VERY frugal. Sure you could live on 100k/year if you drive a hoopty, live in a little apartment, never spend money on entertainment, buy the cheapest of everything then, and don't mind not being able to help family or friends out financially! Do not forget that a 200k a year loan payment will eat up 13,500-20,000k a year on regular payments on a 30 year amoritization schedule (which means you will have to work AT LEAST 30 years). You also need to remember that taxes EAT away BIG TIME on your gross income, there are many taxes that you must pay that you haven't even thought of yet. You must also set aside a good chunk of change if you plan on retiring. The bottom line is money doesn't go as far as you might think it does, especially when you are sitting on heavy debt!

well if you would like to attack the taxes and medical loans in the same thought, much of your loans interest (shouild you chose to pay it off over 30 yrs) can be written off of taxes. futher, if you have your own practice, a large number of other tax incentives form.

 

[DocGina]

Let's just show some love for our fellow osteopathic brothers/sisters in the forum...

For those of you who are class of 2009, soon we will all be dealing with the same issues and will need to support each other during the difficult times that lay ahead!

Debate is enchanting but hostility is gruff...

Regardless of who burns/smokes incense, kills birds, thinks money is nothing/everything, lives in KC/NY, let's forget all those differences and know that soon we'll all be doing the same things: Treating sick babies, casting broken limbs, giving people bigger boobies, collecting stool specimens, having an occasional save after resuscitating the person in CA, hearing 90 year old Maggy telling you about how she went to the grocery store and couldn't find bread (after you asked when her chest pain started 20 minutes prior)…. Ahhhh, the glory and prestige and future financial rewards after we repay our hundreds of thousands of dollars of debts (in 30-years!!!).

 

[espbeliever]

Let's just show some love for our fellow osteopathic brothers/sisters in the forum...

For those of you who are class of 09', soon we will all be dealing with the same issues and will need to support each other during the difficult times that lay ahead!

Debate is enchanting but hostility is gruff...

Regardless of who burns/smokes incense, kills birds, thinks money is nothing/everything, lives in KC/NY, let's forget all those differences and know that soon we'll all be doing the same things: Treating sick babies, casting broken limbs, giving people bigger boobies, collecting stool specimens, having an occasional save after resuscitating the person in CA, hearing 90 year old Maggy telling you about how she went to the grocery store and could find bread (after you asked when her chest pain started 20 minutes prior)…. Ahhhh, the glory and prestige and future financial rewards after we repay our hundreds of thousands of dollars of debts (in 30-years!!!).

i want to do rural medicine where entirely likely, some of my compensation will be in the form of bartering. loans? well, they are no worry to me, i have scholarships, and repayment programs that are state funded which mean i get out without oweing a dime.

my ideal is live out my days helping ppl the best i can. enjoy living life, and possiblly help others do the same. i like meds cuz i like learning a lot, and then using what i learned. this seems like a really amazing and rewarding way to use what ive learned...

thas me.

 

[DocGina]

my ideal is live out my days helping ppl the best i can. enjoy living life, and possiblly help others do the same. thas me.

Me too, ESP, me too.

 

[OSUdoc08]

Ok, so i am not gonna lie, i m in it for the money too...unfortunately i am unable to find any source that acutally give some figure for the salary difference between DOs and MDs....it doesnt really matter cause i am sure there isnt that much of a diff but i'd really like to know! i've tried all possible combinations on google, no luck! know of any such source/sites?
taj

This is the most ******ed thread ever. The reason you can't find any information is because your question doesn't make any sense. As a board certified and licensed physician, you are paid based upon your residency training and experience. The degree you recieved (DO or MD) is irrelevant.

DO's and MD's apply for the same jobs---those jobs are the same pay, regardless of who they hire.

 

[Hauskhat]

Yes, it's difficult to ascertain what the hours worked were by just looking at a tax return. I can only tell you what I saw on tax returns and thus, I can only report annual salary. Sorry that I can't provide you with a per hour analysis. It probably would be interesting to assess that.

This poses an excellent question that I do not know the answer to- are employee physicians typically paid per hour or are they salaried? I have been salaried so long I didn't even contemplate that issue. I'm guessing that they're salaried (since most residents get an annual stipend). So an average $/hr analysis would possibly be irrelevant due to variability of hours worked by individuals.

You just have something to say about everything, huh?

 

[asm028400]

Really if you are into the $$, get your MBA or law degree, its much less time, and while Drs do make a lot of $, they work a ton of hours. The MDs I shadow work on average 10-12 hrs plus call plus every third weekend. If you hate your job, all of the $ in the world isn't worth it just b/c drs work so much. That being said, your pay depends on your residency quite a bit. The only thing I have heard is that oftentimes it is easier for MDs to get the best residencies, but thats just from the DOs I've talked to.

 

[Taj]

Really if you are into the $$, get your MBA or law degree, its much less time, and while Drs do make a lot of $, they work a ton of hours. The MDs I shadow work on average 10-12 hrs plus call plus every third weekend. If you hate your job, all of the $ in the world isn't worth it just b/c drs work so much. That being said, your pay depends on your residency quite a bit. The only thing I have heard is that oftentimes it is easier for MDs to get the best residencies, but thats just from the DOs I've talked to.

thanks darlin, unfortunatley you didnt read the originial thread correctly! I am not in it only for the money...i said i am in it for the money TOO..as in "also"...if i went ahead with a MBA or a law degree and started to treat people (which is what I really want to do) then i think i'd get sued,..SO bad that all my MBA and law degree salaries combined couldnt help me out!!!!! ... that aside, thanks for the info, I apperciate it! good luck to you!

 

[Taj]

This is the most ******ed thread ever. The reason you can't find any information is because your question doesn't make any sense. As a board certified and licensed physician, you are paid based upon your residency training and experience. The degree you recieved (DO or MD) is irrelevant.

DO's and MD's apply for the same jobs---those jobs are the same pay, regardless of who they hire.

I dont know about "******ed", i think its kinda ******ed to call someone's honest query ******ed. and if you think this is the MOST retarted thread EVER...you either dont read enough or you read too much!
chill my friend

 

[markboonya]

i am curious if doctors who work in areas with higher costs of living get paid more? would make sense to me, since most other professions take that into consideration. but then again, i hear of hospitals out in the boonies attract doctors with higher pay.

on a different note, i shadowed a urologist who was pulling in over 500k a year and sometimes managed his portfolio with his financial analyst in between surgeries. he still thought he was being shortchanged by insurance reimbursements. but hey, if i were in his postion, i would probably feel the same way. i mean who wouldnt right, if u were once paid 3x more for a procedure. everything is relative, to him 500k is something worth complaining about since in pre-hmo era, he could be pulling in 2-3x as much.

but as for us pre-meds, i think complaining about how doctors arent getting paid enough is a little silly. sure its responsible to know the $$$ payoff for 6+ years of schooling, but dont compare it to pre-hmo era. the pay for doctors is just the way it is, and thats the conditions we will soon be practicing in. lawyers, engineers, whatever.. they may be making more for each hour of schooling and work, but we chose to take the medical path right? we all know we are going to be overworked and underpaid.

anyways, i wish doctors make more $$$. i want to eat lobster and king crab legs whenever i want.

 

[Funkdoctor]

Really if you are into the $$, get your MBA or law degree, its much less time, and while Drs do make a lot of $, they work a ton of hours. The MDs I shadow work on average 10-12 hrs plus call plus every third weekend. If you hate your job, all of the $ in the world isn't worth it just b/c drs work so much. That being said, your pay depends on your residency quite a bit. The only thing I have heard is that oftentimes it is easier for MDs to get the best residencies, but thats just from the DOs I've talked to.

Maybe if you are talking an MBA from a top 10 B school, or a JD from a top ten law school, but in reality it is these guys who work the longest hours of anybody on the planet. The top lawyers starting out are making in the mid 100k range and that is in Manhattan (the only place you can command such money). Read up on the hours lawyers work 80-100, and they aren't helping people, instead they are trying to screw people (like doctors) so they can make their living. If your MD is working 10-12 hours it is because he doesn't mind or wants to work those hours and loves his job. I know an MD who is out of his office everyday at 2:30 and has a laid back schedule as it is. He owns a brand new SL600 with some sick rims, a brand new Escalade, and 3 other luxury vehicles on top of having one of the nicest house I have ever seen in my area. BTW he is in a specialty that is not known for making big bucks either, but he does have his own practice.

Sure you should not be in this just for the money. Yes the money is good (well very good) but there are other fulfilling aspects of being a doctor also. Helping people (this can bring long term joy & satisfaction), the prestige, the sense of achievement, proving everyone wrong (this gives me my drive), and yes the money are all reasons why people decide to go to medical school. BTW there are reasons other than selfishness to want to earn good money like helping out family members so they can break the cycle of lower middle/ upper lower class(I will be the second one in my family, which I am including cousins, aunts, uncles, parents, grandparents, and siblings to earn any degree past a high school diploma), giving to charity's of your choice, being able to afford to adopt a child from a third world country, buying your father who never had a pot to piss in a Mercedes SL500, and finally being able to live a lifestyle you have always dreamed of but thought was out of your reach (this is the American dream isn't it?) are all good reasons to want to earn good money. My bottom line is if you don't care if you make big bucks that is your business, but don't bash somebody else for aspiring to earn a mint! (Especially when you do not know their background!)

 

[fabiolablake]

This thread is annoying. Taj, this is not an appropriate thread and if you start it off by saying you want to make money that is just sad. We should not be arguing about this or getting fired up, it's stupid. If Taj thinks there is a difference, let him think that and pursue what he thinks is better. If you are good and "care" about your patients rather then Hamilton, Franklin, Jackson, etc. then you will make more money. What is your name so I know that you I don't come to you in the future? I don't want to be treated by someone that doesn't care.

 

[MoosePilot]

This thread is annoying. Taj, this is not an appropriate thread and if you start it off by saying you want to make money that is just sad. We should not be arguing about this or getting fired up, it's stupid. If Taj thinks there is a difference, let him think that and pursue what he thinks is better. If you are good and "care" about your patients rather then Hamilton, Franklin, Jackson, etc. then you will make more money. What is your name so I know that you I don't come to you in the future? I don't want to be treated by someone that doesn't care.

How is it not appropriate? Does it violate the terms of service in some way? Is it something he wanted to know hoped someone else might have an answer?

Goodness, people! Before I committed 9 years minimum to any career, I'd research the pay issues. What is so weird about that? It doesn't mean you won't be a good doc, or take good care of your patients, but that's why medicine is a career. People expect to get paid for it.

 

[espbeliever]

my fp doc charged the insurance company 75 just for a check up, and a bunch of other things that came to $247. i saw him all of maybe 15 minutes total and totaled from about three 5 minute look overs. is that normal? wow. and then i had a physical that took maybe 10 minutes for $137. if docs are making that kind of money just from the mediocre insurance companies what is everyone complaining about? is that amount higher than normal or something?? i know that does not account for overhead and all, and i have a real good understanding of all of that, but i was guessing at maybe 70 average visit TOTAL cost. this is way more...

 

[UNE2009LMD]

Ok, so i am not gonna lie, i m in it for the money too...unfortunately i am unable to find any source that acutally give some figure for the salary difference between DOs and MDs....it doesnt really matter cause i am sure there isnt that much of a diff but i'd really like to know! i've tried all possible combinations on google, no luck! know of any such source/sites?
taj

If you're in it for the money, you might as well go into business or law. w/ medicine, you're dealing w/ third party payers as well as malpractice fees. if all you see is green, what's the point of going through 4 grueling years of academic challenges +another 3-10 years of residency?

 

[docbill]

There is an expression that goes like this.

Find something you enjoy and do it as a career. Then find a way to be great at it. Then find a way to make lots of money doing it. This applies to everything. IF YOU ARE GOOD AND ENJOY WHAT YOU DO... YOU CAN MAKE MONEY.

BUT that should be your last reason for going into med. Especially DO med.

 

[badasshairday]

I actually heard that doctors that practice in the boonies make more then docs practicing in urban areas. Its mostly because in the urban more doctors want to practice, but in the boonies they offer a much higher salary to attract doctors.

 

[Toohotinvegas33]

Way to pull up a thread almost two years old. And yes, places like the "boonies" that do not have doctors and aren't normally in a place that physicians would gravitate too (various undesirable reasons), usually pay more to get them out there.

 

[Static Line]

Way to pull up a thread almost two years old.

We certainly have a prophet among us who can raise the dead.

 

[Dr JPH]

I actually heard that doctors that practice in the boonies make more then docs practicing in urban areas. Its mostly because in the urban more doctors want to practice, but in the boonies they offer a much higher salary to attract doctors.

You cant generalize like that.

In some fields docs who work in rural areas can make more money, but it definately depends on the specialty.

Moving to a rural area and not having the patient load or the facilities to do certain things can hinder you. There is not much need for a pediatric cardiologist in a rural area. Not enough patients.

For primary care, EMED, OB...you can do quite well in rural areas.

 

[Vix206]

I actually heard that doctors that practice in the boonies make more then docs practicing in urban areas. Its mostly because in the urban more doctors want to practice, but in the boonies they offer a much higher salary to attract doctors.

i have no idea if this is the case. but i do know for a fact that a DO i shadowed (who practices in an urban setting) does very well. i consider owning houses in NJ, SC, and st. maarten make him a pretty (financially) successful doctor.

i'm not sure if you can really make a generalization like that. and why would you want to anyway?

 

[badasshairday]

i have no idea if this is the case. but i do know for a fact that a DO i shadowed (who practices in an urban setting) does very well. i consider owning houses in NJ, SC, and st. maarten make him a pretty (financially) successful doctor.

i'm not sure if you can really make a generalization like that. and why would you want to anyway?

I'm not saying that docs that work in urban areas don't make good money, I was just trying to say that a rural area will offer more pay to attract doctors to come to the rural area.

JP fixed up my over generalization.

 

[EastWestN2grt]

Ok, ok...someone needs to FINALLY tell the truth..

Here goes...DOs make a million dollars! yup its true...you dont get to find out the truth until you are officially accepted. After you are accepted, the AOA sends you a invitation in the mail, and all incoming students go to Kirksville for three days--you know kind of like 'skulls and bones society', so I cant really tell you more...but yeah....its a million dollars..

But just keep this info on the DL we dont want it going around SDN, especially in the pre-allo area....ok.......alright, good.

 

[Oculus Sinistra]

why is that when ever money is brought up in the medical profession people get all touchy feel-y.

It makes you look very, very selfish. Too many physicians today make decisions for financial reasons rather than what's best for the patient. For instance, if as a pediatrician you rush through patients hoping to get as many reimbursements per hour as humanly possible so you can continue a grand lifestyle of excess that you imagined for yourself. This affects patients in numerous ways that I shouldn't have to delineate.

If you look at it objectively, medicine is a profession like any other, and if you interviewing for a job wouldn't you like to know how much you'd be making?

For most people, the salary is important because it answers the question of whether you can pay your bills. As a shoe salesman, you want to know if you can pay your bills. As a physician, you know you'll be able to pay your (standard) bills. Coming into medicine, people expect you to love science and being around people; coming into a shoe salesman job, no employer is going to ask you, "So, tell me what you love about selling shoes...?"

I come from India, and although I grew up in the city most of my family is from a very rural small village in that where 1 dollar goes a LONG way...my ultimate goal is to build a clinic there so the villagers dont have to travel to next town....so for me a solid six figure salary is excellent, it'll give me enough to take care of my family and make this goal possible.

There are plenty of other routes to this goal if it is a true goal and not just a half-baked concoction to play to the sympathies of the admissions committe. You could start a non-profit organization and build a clinic, for instance. Or, if you do go to medical school, you could offer your medical services out of an office building if you had to. I'm sure someone would recognize your goal as being humane and offer you space free of charge -- and you wouldn't need a six figure salary for that, either.

Bottom line, if you're gonna spend the best yrs of your life pulling all nighters, and in night shifts, clearly you would have to be in it for the right reason...and asking about money is not a sign of selfishness or malice

Granted, it's not malicious but it *is* selfish. Selfish people try to reassure themselves by saying it's not selfish, but it is. You're not "clearly [doing] it for the right reason" because you're "pulling all nighters" -- that just means you're clearly doing what you're heard you have to do to live a life of excess. Passion and hard work are different animals.

good option, but I'd much rather be a physician, specifically a pediatrician.... I'd really like to know how many of you would continue pursuing this profession if tomorrow someone were to pass a law saying that doctors will only be paid minimum wage, or if they said doctors would be pe paid at all....Excuse the language but dont sht yourself by saying you dont care about money. I've stated my intention above for asking the question in the first place...so I would appreciate it if you didnt judge

Look, all people are tuned from birth to make judgments. The first couple times that you stood up as a child, you had to make a judgment about whether you could support yourself or whether you needed to lean on something. Later, as a teenager, you had to make a judgment about whether you could sleep in for another five minutes or if you had to get up now so you could make the school bus, etc etc. People judge. That's the way the world works. Not all judgments are equal or correct, but they are equally judgments. And we can't rid ourselves of them even if we wanted to because as doctors we need to to make all sorts of judgments -- does this person need surgery, are they really in pain or just faking it, how soon will the baby come out?

In regards to whether a person would want to work as a physician while making minimum wage, the answer is no. Nobody in their adult years should accept working for minimum wage because you have to live paycheck to paycheck -- and that's only if you're lucky. Most times you have to borrow from Peter to pay Paul. So would I want to be a physician for minimum wage? Absolutely not. I wouldn't want to be an architect, a firefighter, a teacher, or a janitor either.

Making statements like "I bet you wouldn't want to work as a physician if you weren't paid" are leading questions -- of COURSE no one would want to work for no money and you know that before you even ask. It's like saying, "I bet you wouldn't want to work as a physician if you were struck by a meteor everyday."

Well duh.

 

[Laurenb]

good option, but I'd much rather be a physician, specifically a pediatrician....

I'd really like to know how many of you would continue pursuing this profession if tomorrow someone were to pass a law saying that doctors will only be paid minimum wage, or if they said doctors would be pe paid at all....Excuse the language but dont sht yourself by saying you dont care about money. I've stated my intention above for asking the question in the first place...so I would appreciate it if you didnt judge
peace,
Taj

I do not care about the $
My purpose is to serve people who have a need that is not being met, and I hope I will be able to make a difference, even if it is a small one.
I can prove it is not about the money:
By the time I am done with medical school, residency and fellowship I will be 41 and have just enough time to pay back student loans before I die
Okay- obviously that part was a joke...
The point is, some of us are persuing medicine because we feel it is our calling and no amount of money or lack thereof will stop us

 

[engineeredout]

I do not care about the $
My purpose is to serve people who have a need that is not being met, and I hope I will be able to make a difference, even if it is a small one.
I can prove it is not about the money:
By the time I am done with medical school, residency and fellowship I will be 41 and have just enough time to pay back student loans before I die
Okay- obviously that part was a joke...
The point is, some of us are persuing medicine because we feel it is our calling and no amount of money or lack thereof will stop us

Good thing you responded to the guy. I'm sure for the past four years this topic has been weighing heavily on his mind.

 

[Exalya]

P.S. everyone who thinks 100k a year will get you far nowadays, that is fine and dandy if you plan on living VERY VERY frugal. Sure you could live on 100k/year if you drive a hoopty, live in a little apartment, never spend money on entertainment, buy the cheapest of everything then, and don't mind not being able to help family or friends out financially!

That's funny. I live with that on $20,000 a year. Amazing how they take out $80k in taxes. Wow. I still can't comprehend people on here moaning and groaning about making 100,000 a year. I cannot imagine increasing my income five fold and still living on the bare minimum. Even with all the money into loans (which I won't have on the military scholarship, but still) you're making a lot more than the average Joe. Living within your means should not be a problem at that level unless you insist on living in an extremely high living-expense area.

 

[sparty]

flaming the OP is ridiculous,obviously everyone's main intent is to help people, if its making money there are much easier and less time consuming ways to do so. but at the same time we are providing a rare service and should be expected to get paid well. anyone who is telling you that they don't care about the money/lifestyle medicine will eventually allow you to live is lying.

 

[JeetKuneDo]

100k is a lil low for the approx. 11 years of post high school training that physicians need to complete.

 

[Semicolon]

100k is a lil low for the approx. 11 years of post high school training that physicians need to complete.

Agreed.

*MINIMUM 11 years.

 

[Bacchus]

100k is a lil low for the approx. 11 years of post high school training that physicians need to complete.

This thread is also OLD... Salaries rise.

 

[COMedic2Doc]

This thread is also OLD... Salaries rise.

Yep, totally agree salaries rise, malpractice rises, etc, etc. Great comments from everyone, and truly making $100k a year for the time being it doesn't feel like much . If you consider that you will be doing at minimum 11 years of schooling and residency $100k is really not much, so check your soul and figure out your true reasons for getting into Medicine because the issues with Physicians making a decent living are only getting worse for the time being until we figure out our issues with the health care system. Just my two cents, for what it's worth .

 

[digitlnoize]

my fp doc charged the insurance company 75 just for a check up, and a bunch of other things that came to $247. i saw him all of maybe 15 minutes total and totaled from about three 5 minute look overs. is that normal? wow. and then i had a physical that took maybe 10 minutes for $137. if docs are making that kind of money just from the mediocre insurance companies what is everyone complaining about? is that amount higher than normal or something?? i know that does not account for overhead and all, and i have a real good understanding of all of that, but i was guessing at maybe 70 average visit TOTAL cost. this is way more...

Why don't you go ask this over on the FP board.

First off, the insurance company doesn't always pay the doc that much.

Second, the doc doesn't make that, the Office does. The office has to take that $200 (or whatever) and pay for:

Staff (receptionist, biller/coder, front desk, nurses, med techs, lab), Partner's Salaries, Non-Partner's Salaries, Rent, Phone, Electric, Other Utilities, CME, Advertising, Supplies, Health Insurance and other benefits for employees, etc, etc, etc.

That money goes away quickly. The doc(s) in the practice wind up not making nearly as much as they take in. It's called running a business.

 

[123165]

i live where expensive houses are those at 200k+... this is the heart of the country, kansas city. the average per hour salary is $17/hr. if you do not think low 6 figs is enough, fooey on you! haha

that 200k+ house will land you 5000sqft, lake front view, 2+ acres, and quick access to highway/shopping, or you could get similar out very secluded. take your pick. ppl that complain about money suck. tooooooooooooooooo materialistic. get your head out of the toilet and wake up... there is a lot more to this world than money..........

further, usa is far more wealthy than nearly every country. that 200k here would get 10 places the same or better in most other parts of the world. if you think ~100k is poor, you are living in a glass bowl and know NOTHING of this world.

Depends where you are on Kansas City. Overland Park is not like that at all. Maybe Parkville, and I would barely call that Kansas City.

Oops, didn't see that we raised the dead, sorry

 

[YA7ES]

shadowed a DO E.R. doc that was pullin 330k... 160 bucks an hour.. 180 hours a month.

also shadowed an MD E.R. doc that was making 150 bucks an hour at a different hospital...


All in all, the money per hour depends on how desperate the hospitals are.. the doc i shadowed told me that hospitals in the boonies have called offering up to 220 bucks an hour.

 

[Longshanks]

that 200k+ house will land you 5000sqft, lake front view, 2+ acres, and quick access to highway/shopping, or you could get similar out very secluded. take your pick. ppl that complain about money suck. tooooooooooooooooo materialistic. get your head out of the toilet and wake up... there is a lot more to this world than money..........

and to think 200k here in NYC gets you an attached single family home, 2 1/2 br, 1 bath (at least 10 years ago it did)... I'm missing out on my piece of the american pie!

 

[Semicolon]

and to think 200k here in NYC gets you an attached single family home, 2 1/2 br, 1 bath (at least 10 years ago it did)... I'm missing out on my piece of the american pie!

Considering the incredible and unfortunate amount of debt I'm going to incur, I'm going to seriously consider moving away from NYC for a living...it's just horrible here.

 

[Longshanks]

Considering the incredible and unfortunate amount of debt I'm going to incur, I'm going to seriously consider moving away from NYC for a living...it's just horrible here.

I've been questioning that myself, once I get accepted somewhere and graduate yada yada yada, but I just love the environment too much. I'm from one of the outer boroughs though. Oddly enough, Buffalo as a city isn't that bad, even though its one of the poorest cities in the US, there are some vibrant areas trying to come back up, so I've enjoyed it (minus the winter.. wow that was bad, but I think all over NY was terrible this year). I just don't want to be a bridge & tunneler if I did stay

 

[JeetKuneDo]

This thread is also OLD... Salaries rise.

True, it's old, but I'd think 100k is still pretty low for the years between 2005-2009.

 

[Mohammed1989]

I love this thread!!!! This just reminded me of my uncle who is a doctor. People like him are in it just for the money, he opened a SECOND clinc at the age of 60 something. Works more then 70+ hours a week. This is just the icing on the cake since this will not be enough money for him, you need 30 houses to make yourself feel better. Go figure I was pretty surprised that specialists in internal med make a lot

 

[twocentnews]

.

 

[mhgator]

My dad is and MD, and I know many DO's who make more than him, even though he is the highest paid physician in the ER where he works. Even though I was accepted in several MD and DO schools this year, I'm choosing to go with a DO school after talking to many of my father's colleagues and getting their advice. Talking about the pay between the two really isn't an issue...like most other people have already said, it all depends on your specialty.

 

[KTownGT]

100k a year is a touch over double the average national household income, which if I can remember correctly was under 45k a year.



I just wish I found flying as interesting as Biology... My dad has a BSc degree, works three days a week, and makes well over 45k a year.

 

[JaggerPlate]

100k a year is a touch over double the average national household income, which if I can remember correctly was under 45k a year.



I just wish I found flying as interesting as Biology... My dad has a BSc degree, works three days a week, and makes well over 45k a year.

You could easily work 5 days a week with Summers off every year with a BS in Bio (aka teach) and make 45k. Furthermore, you could probably clear 100k working 3 days a week with a DO. Just some food for thought (not taking into account time, debt, etc).

 

[JeetKuneDo]

You could easily work 5 days a week with Summers off every year with a BS in Bio (aka teach) and make 45k. Furthermore, you could probably clear 100k working 3 days a week with a DO. Just some food for thought (not taking into account time, debt, etc).

I like your idea better.

 

[MossPoh]

The highlight of this thread was seeing a post by JPH from a few years ago.