Salaries for Ph.D scientists?

[NancyPansy]

Hi all, I know this is a forum for people working toward both a MD and Ph.D. but I'm looking for any info regarding the salary of Ph.D scientists (mainly biochemistry, molecular and cellular). I've searched for info but I refuse to believe the figures that I've seen (40-60k). I assume that was for college level biochemistry majors?

I would like to hear from people who can give me a better idea of what to expect with a doctorate in some of these areas. Basically, there's a relative of mine wanting to go for a Ph.D (not an MD) and while salary is not the most important factor in the decision, this is someone with lots of debt and elderly parents as well as a baby so the salary does need to be sufficient for a family -not just an individual- to get by, it can't be 40k. If someone has good info on this please let me know. Thanks!

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[gbwillner]

In industry, starting PhD positions can be from $80-120K in my neck of the woods. For senior positions, the sky is the limit depending on their function and status.

 

[gutonc]

My former post-doc mentor, Assoc. Prof 10y out makes about $90K. Part of this is by choice since any increase in salary she got would have to be mostly covered from her own grants and she chooses to use that money to pay students, post-docs and techs instead.

Money in industry will always be better. I have a friend who works an admin job for JDRF who makes more than she did her first few years as an Asst. Prof.

 

[pluto101]

In academia, 5-7 year PhD pays $29,000/yr during training, then $45,000/yr during post doc (3-6 years), then $60-80k/yr for intro level professor. I think.

 

[NancyPansy]

Thanks everyone, I was a little scared by some of the figures I saw, definitely not enough for a family LOL. I knew that scientists earned less than MDs but the stuff I was seeing didn't seem right. I guess some websites must average the salaries of everyone from college level to doctorate and report that.

Still, I'm surprised by the low salaries in academia, especially when my dad was telling me about this professor (bachelor's degree) he met who made 60k teaching HS science. I wonder if he wasn't mistaken, or maybe the guy was bluffing.

I'm pretty sure my relative wants to go into lab work so hopefully that will pay a little better.

 

[gutonc]

Thanks everyone, I was a little scared by some of the figures I saw, definitely not enough for a family LOL. I knew that scientists earned less than MDs but the stuff I was seeing didn't seem right. I guess some websites must average the salaries of everyone from college level to doctorate and report that.

Still, I'm surprised by the low salaries in academia, especially when my dad was telling me about this professor (bachelor's degree) he met who made 60k teaching HS science. I wonder if he wasn't mistaken, or maybe the guy was bluffing.

I'm pretty sure my relative wants to go into lab work so hopefully that will pay a little better.

It won't.

 

[ladyterp]

Thanks everyone, I was a little scared by some of the figures I saw, definitely not enough for a family LOL. I knew that scientists earned less than MDs but the stuff I was seeing didn't seem right. I guess some websites must average the salaries of everyone from college level to doctorate and report that.

Still, I'm surprised by the low salaries in academia, especially when my dad was telling me about this professor (bachelor's degree) he met who made 60k teaching HS science . I wonder if he wasn't mistaken, or maybe the guy was bluffing.

I'm pretty sure my relative wants to go into lab work so hopefully that will pay a little better.

High school science teachers can be paid more than college professors for purely teaching, particularly if teaching at a private high school. College professors often must supplement their salaries with grant money at research oriented institutions.

 

[NancyPansy]

Hi ladyterp, I did not know that. I would have assumed that university professors with a doctorate made much more than HS professors. I guess I'm not too familiar with education.

Some of you guys mentioned that industry might pay better for scientists, do you mean the pharmaceutical industry?

This is somewhat off topic but I'm surprised by the salary gap between Ph.Ds and physicians. I'm sure there must be some type of an economic reason for that? Are there too many biochemistry/biotech degree holders out there at the Ph.D level?

I mean I looked at the biotechnology degree requirements at a university near me and this isn't an easy degree by any means so I can't imagine there are that many excess graduates, or are there.

 

[Student's T]

FYI - good sources of salary/compensation info:
https://jfr.uams.edu/usefullink.php

 

[gbwillner]

Hi ladyterp, I did not know that. I would have assumed that university professors with a doctorate made much more than HS professors. I guess I'm not too familiar with education.

Some of you guys mentioned that industry might pay better for scientists, do you mean the pharmaceutical industry?

This is somewhat off topic but I'm surprised by the salary gap between Ph.Ds and physicians. I'm sure there must be some type of an economic reason for that? Are there too many biochemistry/biotech degree holders out there at the Ph.D level?

I mean I looked at the biotechnology degree requirements at a university near me and this isn't an easy degree by any means so I can't imagine there are that many excess graduates, or are there.

You are making the mistake of assuming that salaries are doled out based on intelligence or merit. The reason MDs make more money is the same as why company CEOs make more money. They have goods and services that they can bill for. PhDs in science are working for the good of mankind. No one needs that, unless its for a boner pill or to regrow hair.

 

[Neuronix]

There is a supply and demand aspect as well. There are way too many PhDs out there. The supply of MDs is limited by the high cost and limited centers for training new physicians.

 

[NancyPansy]

Yeah that's true. There is also probably less demand in terms of the number of these folks that's needed since there can only be so many spots in labs and only so many labs.

I was looking at job listings on a website yesterday, I think it was careerbuilder, and found several biotech-type jobs that paid over 150k. One of them involved researching veterinary vaccines and paid about 200k. I was confused by that because so many biochemistry grads out there are claiming to have trouble finding a well-paying job. Are these kinds of jobs difficult too come by? Does it depend on the part of the country one lives?

I also noticed that many of these jobs will apparently let people with bachelor's degrees apply if they have enough experience, say 10 years versus 2 years minimum for Ph.Ds. I thought it was next to impossible to work in biotech without a graduate degree, from what I heard. I guess it must be because graduate degree holders tend to get these jobs rather than BS holders?

 

[Elixir6]

Yeah that's true. There is also probably less demand in terms of the number of these folks that's needed since there can only be so many spots in labs and only so many labs.

I was looking at job listings on a website yesterday, I think it was careerbuilder, and found several biotech-type jobs that paid over 150k. One of them involved researching veterinary vaccines and paid about 200k. I was confused by that because so many biochemistry grads out there are claiming to have trouble finding a well-paying job. Are these kinds of jobs difficult too come by? Does it depend on the part of the country one lives?

I also noticed that many of these jobs will apparently let people with bachelor's degrees apply if they have enough experience, say 10 years versus 2 years minimum for Ph.Ds. I thought it was next to impossible to work in biotech without a graduate degree, from what I heard. I guess it must be because graduate degree holders tend to get these jobs rather than BS holders?

Just like other professions they want you to have tonnes of experience and track record. I think you will find it hard to get into the industry as an undergrad when all the jobs are asking for 10+ years of experience. Letters behind your name and board eligibility/certification matter when you are an MD. Letters behind your name mean squat when it comes to research - what matters is your track record (projects completed, papers published, grants received).

 

[gbwillner]

Just like other professions they want you to have tonnes of experience and track record. I think you will find it hard to get into the industry as an undergrad when all the jobs are asking for 10+ years of experience. Letters behind your name and board eligibility/certification matter when you are an MD. Letters behind your name mean squat when it comes to research - what matters is your track record (projects completed, papers published, grants received).

It really depends on the job. I think the future right now is much brighter in industry and it will probably start taking roles once thought in the realm of academia.

Those letters after your name do matter. But unlike an MD, whose letters are more or less equivocal, there are significant differences among PhDs that are pretty wide as they will all have different areas of expertise and experiences.