Salary and midlevels moving in?

[Merovinge]

Isn't that how it is done in Euro typically for becoming a MD?

At least in the UK, their residencies are extremely long for non-GPs (even that is 1 year longer than here). They have PGY 7's who are still just in general surgery pre fellowship

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[DD214_DOC]

How long is NP school? Google says 1-3 years, but generally what is it? 1? 3?

Not long enough from my interactions with them, and often they will include their BSN education/training/experience as actually relevant.

 

[Shikima]

Not long enough from my interactions with them, and often they will include their BSN education/training/experience as actually relevant.

18 months.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

In my experience, most don't know the difference. Many don't pay attention to what their "prescriber" actually is. A minority care and know the difference. This is VA, mostly.

It being the VA could be a reason we see less of it here, although I actually not-uncommonly have patients mention it to me.

But when you're potentially paying out of pocket (or having to search in-network on insurance) rather than just needing to present to a facility, it might cause folks to look more closely at provider status.

 

[splik]

At least in the UK, their residencies are extremely long for non-GPs (even that is 1 year longer than here). They have PGY 7's who are still just in general surgery pre fellowship

General Practice training is 5 years in the UK. There are no residencies or fellowships in the UK. It is much less structured with an emphasis on service provision over training. They get paid more during training, get a very good pension, 27 days of annual leave, sick leave, paid maternity leave, and a month of professional leave a year and educational expenses. If they are asked to cover extra call shifts they will get paid extra on an hourly basis. Also one does not have to finish training to practice, or even do specialist training. But that significantly limits your earning potential. They have been striking recently though as the government has changed the terms of their contract including a clause that they could change things any time they wished. (Actually my own residency contract had a similar clause and our lawyers told us that they would never advise signing such a contract...)

 

[Yadster101]

I make on the high side of the pay range you noted at 40-45 hours per week.

Nurse practitioners may accumulate equivalent experience throughout there careers, and in instances where they are equally prepared through this experience, they will likely earn close to their physician colleagues. I think that trying to argue that something intrinsic to being a psychiatrists is the reason we should be paid more money is misguided and likely to be threatened; rather, we should attempt to develop unique competencies that allow us to provide additional value. I am quite unsympathetic to the idea that we should get more money for prescribing the same dose of methylphenidate to the same patient. On the other hand, as a second year CAP fellow, I'll be consulting to some nurse practitioners on management of complex ASD comorbidity cases, with recognition that my dedication to clinical work and research in this area adds value to this process.

Wait sorry if I misunderstood, but @Psych NP Guy are you saying you make 200k as a psych NP? Do boarded MD/DOs really make the same as Psych NPs?

 

[Yadster101]

Well, if numbers for the year follow the first quarter's trend, it'll actually be a lot more.

That's amazing. Do you feel that you are anomaly? I've talked to some NPs and PAs that have done a psych residency, and the impression I got is that salaries typically range from 90-120k. Do MD's and NPs get paid the same at your facility?

 

[Leo Aquarius]

Yes, I am definitely an anomaly. But everyone in my organization is. We're spread out in regions, and we're all solo in that region. I know we have NPs who make less. I'm sure some make more. I'm thinking some of the MDs probably make less while most make more, some perhaps > 300k. If this year follows first quarter trends, I'll gross > 225.

Congrats Psych NP Guy, that's a nice setup. For people on the fence about pursuing an NP vs MD, this should give more pause if income is a major consideration.

 

[MacDonaldTriad]

If this year follows first quarter trends, I'll gross > 225.

And this is better than 90% of academic MD positions.

 

[Shikima]

Less loans, less schooling, no MOC, equal pay. Nice.

 

[F0nzie]

I know plenty of psych Nps that make way more than I do as a physician. Mid twenties, making 200k+, driving $80k+ cars, 10 years younger, no family to support, better looking...

There are great financial advantages to NP but they have limitations. They are still seen by the general public as nurses with special privileges to prescribe medications. Nurses are great for many things but it is up to them to establish themselves as knowledgeable and competent medical providers. I believe this going to be an ongoing challenge for them due to the limitations in their education. If a problem lies outside of their circle of knowledge they cannot ask the right questions. The questions they ask directly relate to the knowledge necessary for providing accurate diagnoses and treatment. Also being trained by a nurse to be a doctor has limitations.

I am happy for them though. Many of them are young, vibrant, healthy and happy to be living the American dream.




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[Leo Aquarius]

I think nurses know the right questions to ask...

sometimes.

 

[zolof]

I know plenty of psych Nps that make way more than I do as a physician. Mid twenties, making 200k+, driving $80k+ cars, 10 years younger, no family to support, better looking...

There are great financial advantages to NP but they have limitations. They are still seen by the general public as nurses with special privileges to prescribe medications. Nurses are great for many things but it is up to them to establish themselves as knowledgeable and competent medical providers. I believe this going to be an ongoing challenge for them due to the limitations in their education. If a problem lies outside of their circle of knowledge they cannot ask the right questions. The questions they ask directly relate to the knowledge necessary for providing accurate diagnoses and treatment. Also being trained by a nurse to be a doctor has limitations....

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Yes good for them, less years, less graduate school money, and much much less headaches, at least were I work.
I work now as contractor in a place where there are plenty of psych NPs , and they do pretty well 130 and up to 180 or more from what I hear. Prior to this gig I never worked with any Psych NPs, at a different hospitals there were just residents. I do think though that as psych attending now starting salaries should be a heck of a lot more. On this inpatient work, I definitely have much more responsibility and teaching than I have ever had since there are no residents and I am one of only 3 attendings. I have my days constantly interrupted to do work the NPs cannot do, (administrative,legals, teaching, questions by the NPs themselves about treatment, etc) also lots of family have questions and even though they aren't my patients they always ask to see me even when I tell them to ask the NPs about the patient. I don't mind so much but If I wasn't on a highly pained unique contract position, No way in hell I would take a standard 230K job for this type of work, the extra hours and liability aren't worth it to me. Let me tell you psychiatrists, especially inpatient, are a very hot and fundamental commodity, never accept anything the average "quoted" salaries.