Sanjay Gupta is an idiot.

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skiz knot

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Did anyone happen to catch Dr. Sanjay Gupta's piece on Lebron James' elbow issues? It is worth a laugh, especially the part where he points out the "stabilizing tendons shown in yellow" (clearly the nerves). I'd expect more from a neurosurgeon.

http://sports.yahoo.com/video/player/nba/19636071;_ylt=AmPhh4q2XXNc8ohIUc4n.0U5nYcB#nba/19636071

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Did anyone happen to catch Dr. Sanjay Gupta's piece on Lebron James' elbow issues? It is worth a laugh, especially the part where he points out the "stabilizing tendons shown in yellow" (clearly the nerves). I'd expect more from a neurosurgeon.

http://sports.yahoo.com/video/player/nba/19636071;_ylt=AmPhh4q2XXNc8ohIUc4n.0U5nYcB#nba/19636071

Dude, A well accomplished neurosurgeon is smart enough to know the difference between peripheral nerves and tendons. Listen carefully again. He just points near ulnar nerve and says that tendon rolls over and then tendon areas shows up in brown color. Give him a break. He is smarter than most of us here. Otherwise, he would not be standing there.
 
Dude, A well accomplished neurosurgeon is smart enough to know the difference between peripheral nerves and tendons...
I would hope so....
... Listen carefully again. He just points near ulnar nerve and says that tendon rolls over and then tendon areas shows up in brown color. ...
Apologies but... I watched it and he referred to these as being represented in YELLOW and pointed to the YELLOW nerves.... He says, "you have tendons that you can see roll through here in yellow" and he runs his fingers along/traces the nerves. I watched it several times. He does NOT just point "near"... he traces the course of the nerve and its branching/bifurcation.
 
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Dude, A well accomplished neurosurgeon is smart enough to know the difference between peripheral nerves and tendons. Listen carefully again. He just points near ulnar nerve and says that tendon rolls over and then tendon areas shows up in brown color. Give him a break. He is smarter than most of us here. Otherwise, he would not be standing there.

I don't see what distinguishes him as "well accomplished".

We might as well confer that title on Dr Rey, Dr. Oz or Andrew Weil (ever the bastard stepchild and embarrassment of Harvard Med School to be sure).

There are many NSG and other surgical attgs laboring in the trenches of academic medicine who are far more accomplished than he'll ever be. They deserve the accolades.
 
I don't see what distinguishes him as "well accomplished"...
Does Dr. Gupta have a full time practice and engage in active academic research with publications? I ask cause I do not know.
 
Does Dr. Gupta have a full time practice and engage in active academic research with publications? I ask cause I do not know.

I think Dr. Sanjay Gupta is a well trained neurosurgeon accomplished in public media broadcasting. He certainly knows what he is talking about ( tendons, nerves & muscles) and does research on health care related topics before broadcast. May be there was some slip in his presentation. To err is human. Cut him some slack. nice lookin' surgeon.
 
...is smart enough to know the difference between peripheral nerves and tendons. Listen carefully again. ...He is smarter than most of us here...
...He certainly knows what he is talking about ...and does research on health care related topics before broadcast. May be there was some slip in his presentation. To err is human. Cut him some slack. nice lookin' surgeon.
I don't know Dr. Gupta. However, you came out of the gates in full defense of him and implied we did not see what we saw.
...Listen carefully again...
You also declared him "smarter than most of us here".
...is smart enough to know...He is smarter than most of us here...

Your next response you speak as if you know him and how he prepares for his presentations.
...He certainly knows what he is talking about ...and does research on health care related topics before broadcast...
Again, I don't know him. If you don't know him... you shouldn't be making such claims.

Finally, you allow for the possibility he made the error we initially observed.
...May be there was some slip in his presentation. To err is human...
Sort of a complete 180 from your original position that we should rewatch his presentation because we are in error and he is brilliant.

Yes, errors can be made. I suggest, instead of being biased, for whatever reason, and presuming Dr. Gupta or anyone else is so perfect up front, you may want to look at what is being discussed. I think declaring someone an idiot is not ideal. If you took offense or wanted to make that point... then make that point. Extolling the grandeur of Dr. Gupta is really not the way to make the point. I think the error we perceived is very dramatic and troublesome.
 
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No, Dr. Gupta, the Ulnar and Median nerves do not stabilize the elbow.

Why is a Neurosurgeon talking about elbow problems? I'm sure that ESPN can get Andrews or one of his minions to give a three minute talk that is actually anatomically correct and has some actual insight into the issues besides "a bruise to the bone".
 
I still don't believe a neurosurgeon could make a simple mistake in elbow musculoskeletal gross anatomy. What i said was what i heard the first time before my rebuttal. May be he did because he works so hard helping people sleepless in Haiti for several weeks, operating at Grady's hospital part-time and working as Medical correspondent for CNN. It is time for him to apply for re-certification. However, it is not fair to call a board-certified neurosurgeon an idiot.
peace.
 
I still don't believe a neurosurgeon could make a simple mistake in elbow musculoskeletal gross anatomy. What i said was what i heard the first time before my rebuttal. May be he did because he works so hard helping people sleepless in Haiti for several weeks, operating at Grady's hospital part-time and working as Medical correspondent for CNN. It is time for him to apply for re-certification. However, it is not fair to call a board-certified neurosurgeon an idiot.
peace.

:laugh:
 
Does Dr. Gupta have a full time practice and engage in active academic research with publications? I ask cause I do not know.
Point well taken.

And the answer is no.

He is listed on faculty at Grady and I have found two publications in NSG with his name on them (as last author, so it is unclear the extent of his contribution).

I did find a plethora of publications in TIME magazine, though, if that counts for something, including,
"Run for your lives"

"Dear Food diary"

"Fill up on Flavor"

"Girls Gone Idle"

"Too Fat? Read your Email"

"Eat Your Germs"

etc.
 
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I still don't believe a neurosurgeon could make a simple mistake in elbow musculoskeletal gross anatomy...
What are you in some full worship mode? I guess neurosurgeons do not make mistakes. Apparently, we would be wrong to think a neurosurgeon could make a mistake?
...What i said was what i heard the first time before my rebuttal...
Why are you making any rebuttals in the first place? This post above with your earlier 180 suggests you are debating an issue that you didn't even examine. First, you tell us, we were mistaken and need to watch again. Now, you tell us, maybe there was a mistake because it's human. Then, you can't "believe a neurosurgeon could make a simple mistake in elbow musculoskeletal gross anatomy". This really is you debating based on your feelings, beliefs, and faith. Its like a religion or cult of Gupta with you. Please do him a favor and don't try to be his defender.:eek:
...May be he did because he works so hard helping people sleepless in Haiti for several weeks, operating at Grady's hospital part-time and working as Medical correspondent for CNN...
:scared:Let's canonize great Saint Gupta! There are numerous, probably thousands of physicians/surgeons doing mission work around the globe. Plenty of them are also active academics from universities that contribute to medical student education and resident education. Is Dr. Gupta accomplished? Sure. He is a trained neurosurgeon (note, I am not making an unfounded claim as to how well trained) and has a lucrative contract with the entertainment/media industry. Let us not all get star struck and believe him more then he is.

Final point... If you really are a spine physician, I suggest you closely examine your pride and ego. Physicians that believe in such ~perfection, "I still don't believe a neurosurgeon could make a simple mistake in elbow musculoskeletal gross anatomy" are the ones that are so blinded as to make errors. Every specialty makes serious mistakes. Not the least of which may be wrong side surgery (search on neurosurgeon wrong side surgery). Anatomy is complex, and very easily mistaken, especially if you do not focus in a particular region. Having said that, the mistake we observed on the video is apalling even if he does not operate on the elbow.
 
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The importance of this thread is to demonstrate how pathetic people are. Sanjay Gupta knows at least one thing: name recognition with the public equals authority. I don't know if Gupta is the best or the worst physician ever or somewhere in between, and neither does anyone else here. But most people, even apparently physicians, are willing to say "he's on CNN, therefore he must be great." No, that just means he's willing to be on CNN and he's probably a huge attention *****. In medical school, we had physicians from our local community hospital who were on the local news and it was the same thing. They certainly were not the top of their field, even in our area, but they were good with the media and willing to take the time committment. The payoff? Being viewed by lay-persons as "the expert" in the field and having some level of celebrity in the local community.

In other words, to Spine Specialist: stop giving this guy happy ending.
 
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you guys are all a bunch of haters. this dude is far better looking, richer, smarter and just better at life than all of you, including me, and you guys cant stand it. why on earth would anyone judge him based on the amount of publications he has or the fact that he does not have a full time practice? How on earth could anyone do what he does and have a full time practice on top of that? There aren't enough hours in the week to support that....is that not obvious? And you honestly think that the path toward becoming a well-published full-time academic surgeon is MORE difficult and less straightforward than becoming a part-time surgeon while being a TV/media star and the most well known physician on earth? Please.
If one does not practice full time, it may explain major failures/errors in understanding.... i.e. nerve = tendons? Being an expert in a profession/field has nothing to do with one's charisma/attractiveness or media stardom/celebrity status.

I can not speak to Dr. Gupta's experience or level of practice. Plenty of folks here seem to speak as if they know. However, from a general perspective, certain things are required to be be an expert as opposed to apearing as one in ANY profession. Usually, to be an expert, two (or more) things are often considered:

1. Experience over time. In law practice, this means number of legal cases and/or complexity. In medicine, this means number/volume of cases and/or complexity. A young surgeon in a part time practice is unlikely to have "experience" to be regarded by the profession as an "expert" beyond any other average regular practicing surgeon. Some would argue a part time practicing surgeon would have less experience and thus be less of an expert then a full time practicing surgeon.
2. Advancement of the profession. In law practice, this usually takes the shape of major legal cases that set new law. In medicine, this usually means being on the forefront/cutting edge.... i.e. clinical or basic science research.... leads to publications which leads to new care practices.
:troll:
 
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Did anyone happen to catch Dr. Sanjay Gupta's piece on Lebron James' elbow issues? It is worth a laugh, especially the part where he points out the "stabilizing tendons shown in yellow" (clearly the nerves). I'd expect more from a neurosurgeon.

http://sports.yahoo.com/video/player/nba/19636071;_ylt=AmPhh4q2XXNc8ohIUc4n.0U5nYcB#nba/19636071

I think the problem is limitations in the computer program he was using, so it looked like he tried to improvise.

I searched really quick on google and it seemed like the program doesn't have a good setting for viewing tendons w/o muscle. So he probably intentionally just clicked the "nervous system tab" and used that to show the general location of "tendons" in the elbow
 
I still don't believe a neurosurgeon could make a simple mistake in elbow musculoskeletal gross anatomy. What i said was what i heard the first time before my rebuttal. May be he did because he works so hard helping people sleepless in Haiti for several weeks, operating at Grady's hospital part-time and working as Medical correspondent for CNN. It is time for him to apply for re-certification. However, it is not fair to call a board-certified neurosurgeon an idiot.
peace.

Maybe if he knew what propofol was he could get some sleep. Did you see that interview after MJs death. I couldnt believe my ears. ******* didnt seem to know what this strange "propofole" drug was!
Clearly this guy is a stuffed suit.
 
I think the problem is limitations in the computer program he was using, so it looked like he tried to improvise.

I searched really quick on google and it seemed like the program doesn't have a good setting for viewing tendons w/o muscle. So he probably intentionally just clicked the "nervous system tab" and used that to show the general location of "tendons" in the elbow

Except Dr. Gupta wasn't shoing the "general location" of tendons. He clearly pointed to the nerves, maked in yellow, and called them ligmaents.

Jesus, why are people bending over backwards to defend this guy?
 
0]Except Dr. Gupta wasn't shoing the "general location" of tendons. He clearly pointed to the nerves, maked in yellow, and called them ligmaents. [/I]

Jesus, why are people bending over backwards to defend this guy?

I watched the video, I'm not disputing that point.

What I'm saying is it seemed like he wanted to show tendons/ligaments without having to show muscle, but there isn't a setting on the program to do that.

So he used the nervous system setting and just pretended those where ligaments/tendons in order to illustrate his point.(This is on ESPN, he isn't giving grand rounds or something).

I'm not defending him really, I'm just looking for the most likely explanation. It just seems very unlikely that a neurosurgeon couldn't recognize nerves (especially when the visual he used even included the nerves in the spinal region!) and rather it seems more likely there is another explanation.
 
I watched the video, I'm not disputing that point.

What I'm saying is it seemed like he wanted to show tendons/ligaments without having to show muscle, but there isn't a setting on the program to do that.

So he used the nervous system setting and just pretended those where ligaments/tendons in order to illustrate his point.(This is on ESPN, he isn't giving grand rounds or something).

I'm not defending him really, I'm just looking for the most likely explanation. It just seems very unlikely that a neurosurgeon couldn't recognize nerves (especially when the visual he used even included the nerves in the spinal region!) and rather it seems more likely there is another explanation.

He's still presenting false information to the public (i.e. pointing to the median/ulnar nerve and calling them ligmanets). And to those who know better, he comes off like a jackass. And this is CNN, not ESPN.

On a side note, are we really to believe that CNN couldn't spring for a decnt model that shows ligamentous anatomy? Or was this just really poor planning on Gupta's part to not have an adequate visual? Either way I think someone messed up.
 
I think the problem is limitations in the computer program ...it looked like he tried to improvise.

...the program doesn't have a good setting for viewing tendons w/o muscle. So he probably intentionally just clicked the "nervous system tab" and used that to show the general location of "tendons" in the elbow
Except Dr. Gupta wasn't shoing the "general location" of tendons. He clearly pointed to the nerves, maked in yellow...
...I'm not disputing that point.

What I'm saying is it seemed like ...he ...just pretended those where ligaments/tendons in order to illustrate his point...

...I'm just looking for the most likely explanation. It just seems very unlikely that a neurosurgeon couldn't recognize nerves...
The likely explanation is that he got it wrong. Physicians do all the time. If he is a part time practicing physician specializing in the brain and having little to do with extremity anatomy, he could have gotten it wrong. If that is the case, it is why one should not be presented as an expert to discuss areas in which they do not practice.
...he...pointed to the YELLOW nerves.... He said, "you have tendons that you can see roll through here in yellow" and he runs his fingers along/traces the nerves. ...He does NOT just point "near"... he traces the course of the nerve and its branching/bifurcation.
Further, He made the statement that he had removed the other muscles and tendons..... If everyone's explanations were true, I think he would have simply said "there are tendons that run near these yellow nerves":eek:
 
Jack Deli seems bitter.

It's amazing you can say that simply because of that slip-up he is an idiot.

it's a mistake, nothing more nothing less.

and it's comical that you define your own standards to be an expert, and say he just doesn't fit that. hahaha you are too serious my friend.


He's still presenting false information to the public (i.e. pointing to the median/ulnar nerve and calling them ligmanets

:laugh::laugh:
 
Jack Deli seems bitter.

It's amazing you can say that simply because of that slip-up he is an idiot.

it's a mistake, nothing more nothing less....
I did not start this thread. I don't believe i ever said he was an idiot in this thread. I did not say or condone calling him an idiot. Please take a look at the thread. Also, I think I have said from the beginning the most likely explanation was an error on his part. the reading comprehension around here is amazing.
I don't know Dr. Gupta...

Again, I don't know him...

...Yes, errors can be made. ...I think declaring someone an idiot is not ideal. If you took offense or wanted to make that point... then make that point. ...I think the error we perceived is very dramatic and troublesome.
The likely explanation is that he got it wrong. Physicians do all the time. If he is a part time practicing physician specializing in the brain and having little to do with extremity anatomy, he could have gotten it wrong. If that is the case, it is why one should not be presented as an expert to discuss areas in which they do not practice...
As to:
...and it's comical that you define your own standards to be an expert, and say he just doesn't fit that...
Uh, no... Again, reading comprehension is amazing. I never said Dr. Gupta did not meet a standard of being an expert. I think I specifically stated I do not know his qualifications and could only speak in general terms. The standards I mention in general terms are actually more in line with criteria set by numerous differing bodies about "experts".
http://www.facs.org/fellows_info/statements/st-8.html
The courts in most states have standards established to determine what a medical expert is. The majority if not all recognized medical colleges have standards of ethics to represent one's self as an expert....
...I can not speak to Dr. Gupta's experience or level of practice. ...However, from a general perspective, certain things are required to be be an expert as opposed to apearing as one in ANY profession. Usually, to be an expert, two (or more) things are often considered:

1. Experience over time. ...A young surgeon in a part time practice is unlikely to have "experience" to be regarded by the profession as an "expert" beyond any other average regular practicing surgeon...
2. Advancement of the profession. ...In medicine, this usually means being on the forefront/cutting edge.... i.e. clinical or basic science research.... leads to publications which leads to new care practices...
If you are "pre-medical", you have a lot maturing to do and need to bone up on reading comprehension. There clearly can not be a real discussion if it requires this much effort to spell out and re-explain things to you.
 
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Gupta trained at Michigan during its glory days (it's still great, but you know what I mean), so he's clearly really eff'in smart and very well-trained (but maybe not so much in peripheral nerve). However, he's been in the media spotlight for a long time. Any guy who turns down a nomination for Surgeon General citing a need to spend more time on his surgical practice probably knows he is a little behind the curve on his skills. It's very likely that, at this point, he only does bread-and-butter procedures - which may include a few carpal tunnels, but I doubt he spends much time in the 'bow. Most domers do a few carpal tunnels here and there, but leave the rest of the peripheral nerve schtick to the orthopods.

On to the "mistake"... What's the harm? I mean, I'm pretty sure the only guys who are gonna take Sanjay's information and try to do anything with it are more likely to be the subject of the next episode of Criminal Minds than they are to be found in an actual OR. And if Joe Dumb@$$ tries to take this to his surgeon and convince him of anything, I'm praying that his surgeon just laughs and reassures Joe that he knows what he's doing.

For what it's worth, Gupta's probably the best "Chief Medical Correspondent" out there. He usually does his research and shies away from the more complex stuff outside of his field (but not always). If you're looking for a good, hard laugh, listen to "Dr. Nancy Schneiderman" on NBC. Now THERE'S an idiot.

Finally... To Jack: I find your meticulous (read: lawyer-esque) quoting entertaining. I'm not sure if you're presenting an argument in court or writing a scholarly article...
 
...On to the "mistake"... What's the harm? I mean, ...if Joe Dumb@$$ tries to take this to his surgeon and convince him of anything, I'm praying that his surgeon just laughs and reassures Joe that he knows what he's doing...
In the big picture, you are probably correct maybe no great harm. The problem is that "juries of our peers" usually has "Joe Dumb@$$". The depositions and such that I have sat in and "medical evidence" with testimony I have reviewed is frightening. I have read plaintiff's testimony citing things from popular media/etc... I have even had patients come to the office expecting procedures and or work-ups based on "House" episodes I have seen. In the episodes, House SCRIPT WRITERS got it wrong and the actual medicine and/or procedure cited was applied based on things that made zero medical sense. I understand that show things are bizzar. however, it wasn't bizarr it was wrong application. Sort of like when patients come in asking for a brain MRI to make sure the appendicitis did not spread to the brain to cause their insomnia now! I do think there is some ethics to consider when you accept a job as a medical expert and then start in on areas you may not be an expert. Yes you're an MD... maybe it's OK to accept lucrative income to look like the expert in an area you are not?
...I find your meticulous ...quoting entertaining. I'm not sure if you're presenting an argument in court or writing a scholarly article...
Thank you. As you look at the previous post, things are said/implied completely contrary to what was actually said. It seems, accross numerous forums/threads, to be a common practice to misrepresent what someone has stated. People will develo full arguments and/or attacksagainst statements they seem to have imagined you said. Just as above, you can look at these for examople:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=725938&page=2
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=722984

I do it for accuracy. It's not a lawyer thing. Those further along in medicine will understand the importance of accurate and concise discussion and representation of an issue/problem/disease/etc... At the specialty board level, we are often told to stay on point and not get distracted. If there is an education benefit to these forums, IMHO you need to eliminate all the false claim BS made up to distract from what is actually being discussed.
 
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Sanjay Gupta is smart-- both in books and in politics. He's been interested in being in the spotlight a long, long time-- he even took a leave of absence as a med student to serve as a White House Fellow.

Likewise, Dr Oz is equally willing to do anything to be famous. He married a soap opera star as a resident, became enamored with the world of TV, and things took off from there.

Having met both of them-- once-- I find them unctuous and smarmy. But that's just a general personality characteristic of people who like to be on TV and be famous. I have had the (mis)fortune of being acquainted with a few people who fully plan on running for national office, including President (mainly in the Oxford set) and have always been off-put by them, so I'll just recuse myself from any special commentary on Gupta.

And fyi, I have it on good authority from friends in the administration that Gupta did not turn down the Surgeon General spot because he wanted to focus on neurosurgery-- he rarely operates. He did so because he would have had to give up his TV show and wasn't willing to do so. Reportedly he even asked if he could keep the show "if I promise not to do any segments on health policy to avoid a conflict of interest." Um, no, S-G is kind of a full-time gig.

Anyway, dude was reading from a teleprompter. No one in the public cares one bit. And Gupta & Oz do not by any stretch of the imagination prepare their own segments-- research assistants/interns do. In the case of Oz, they're Columbia medical students on a year off.
 
...fyi, ...Gupta ...rarely operates...

...Gupta ...not by any stretch of the imagination prepare their own segments-- research assistants/interns do...
Again, I don't know any of these folks. But in general, not speaking of any particular physician (or lawyer/engineer/scientist/etc...), if those facts are true,
1. little to no significant practice experience
2. little to no contribution to the profession
they would not be considered "experts" by any stretch within their profession. Yes, they might be considered "experts" at media/entertainment. Yes, they might be considered "experts" by the uninformed common public.

If true, well then just consistent with current status. So, I am not surprised at the possibility of a world famous physician being regarded as an expert with little actual practice.
 
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And fyi, I have it on good authority from friends in the administration that Gupta did not turn down the Surgeon General spot because he wanted to focus on neurosurgery-- he rarely operates. He did so because he would have had to give up his TV show and wasn't willing to do so. Reportedly he even asked if he could keep the show "if I promise not to do any segments on health policy to avoid a conflict of interest." Um, no, S-G is kind of a full-time gig.

Heh. Interesting.

(And yes, I find that explanation more believable than "I want to be able to operate.")
 
Gupta may well have been an outstanding neurosurgeon for all I know. However he is rarely commenting on issues that neurosurgeons deal with. He is almost uniformly not insightful in his comments. Frequently (although not as extreme as Oz) he is flat out wrong. He comes across as someone that memorized things but doesn't understand, think or care about issues. Many times I find it hard to believe he went to Med School but then I remember Med School had plenty of hacks with good memories. He is well spoken, charismatic and I doubt many find him physically insulting. He is just the media's version of bubble headed blonde as a medical reporter. He certainly appears to have no dignity in even caring to be knowledgable about what he reports but ratings is what pays the bills.
 
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