School List: 36Q, 3.85 cGPA, 3.85 sGPA

[HopefulNodakMD]

Undergraduate Stats

Ethnicity: Caucasian
Sex: Male
Residency: ND Resident (suburban, not rural)
Route: Traditional (rising Senior)
Primary: Submitted (6/15)
Location: SE MN private school
Major(s): Biology, Spanish ("Good" fluency)
Minor(s): Math, Chemistry (including Biochem I/II)
cGPA: 3.85
sGPA: 3.85
MCAT: 36Q 12 P/12 V/Q WS/12 B
ECs: Significant clinical and nonclinical volunteering, multiple mission trips and a study abroad to Latin/South America, athlete, ~100 hours of shadowing, several on-campus clubs (three leadership positions), two years of clinical hospital work, two summers of research in biochemistry.
LoR: Committee letter, my coach, and my current PI

School List:

Reach (5-6)

Mayo Medical School (my #1 choice)
Washington University
Yale University
Harvard Medical School
Johns Hopkins University
Stanford University
Mount Sinai School of Medicine
Columbia University
Cornell University
University of Michigan (50% OOS)

Competitive (5-6)

Vanderbilt University
University of Minnesota - TC (17% OOS, but I have state and school ties)
Baylor College of Medicine ((I have heard nothing but great things, but only 24% OOS)
Dartmouth Medical School
Emory University
Boston University
Wake Forest University
Tulane University
Georgetown University
George Washington University
University of Wisconsin - Madison (23% OOS, but Midwest ties)
Other OOS Public schools?

Safety (4-5)

University of North Dakota (state school, I would still love going here!)
Creighton University
Medical College of Wisconsin
Drexel University


Well, the goal of this thread is to narrow down my list, or expand me into schools that fit my stats and my 'person'. I find it hard to label any schools as 'safety' since there is no such thing as an easy medical school. I believe I've weeded out all the schools that don't take OOS'ers, but could be wrong.

Basically:
(1) Are any of these schools out of my reach and I ought to remove them? Please explain why if so (I can take criticism!). IE: I don't have more than 3 months of research at a time, no pubs, etc.
(2) Should I be adding any schools to make sure I get in somewhere? Please state which and why so I know.
(3) Are there any great Financial Aid options that I should consider at the schools? IE: Outrageous OOS costs (this is common from what I hear), full-ride tuition (Mayo), etc.

I realize this is an expensive process and secondaries take a lot of time, and I have a limited amount of money and time. But I am willing to invest anything (loans/time-wise) in order to get into a school I'm happy with!

I will likely purchase the MSAR online tomorrow to start digging into mission statements myself. If I could get some advice (especially from those attending these universities) I would be extremely grateful!

Thanks for all your help!
- HopefulNodakMD

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[1289]

with your stats you would be competitive at a lot of the OOS schools that people often try to deter others from applying from. and yeah I definitely would not call GW a "safety," considering they get 14000 apps a year. but you seem to understand that. I'd give uw madison a try.

also a huge majority of Brown's incoming class comes from a special program they have, I think I read on the website that <40 come in through the "traditional" amcas route.

 

[Finches]

Undergraduate Stats

Ethnicity: Caucasian
Sex: Male
Residency: ND Resident (suburban, not rural)
Route: Traditional (rising Senior)
Primary: Submitted (6/15)
Location: SE MN private school
Major(s): Biology, Spanish ("Good" fluency)
Minor(s): Math, Chemistry (including Biochem I/II)
cGPA: 3.85
sGPA: 3.85
MCAT: 36Q 12 P/12 V/Q WS/12 B
ECs: Significant clinical and nonclinical volunteering, multiple mission trips and a study abroad to Latin/South America, athlete, ~100 hours of shadowing, several on-campus clubs (three leadership positions), two years of clinical hospital work, two summers of research in biochemistry.
LoR: Committee letter, my coach, and my current PI

School List:

Reach (5-6)

Mayo Medical School (my #1 choice)
Washington University
Yale University
Harvard Medical School
Johns Hopkins University
Stanford University
Mount Sinai School of Medicine
Columbia University
Cornell University
University of Michigan (50% OOS)

Competitive (5-6)

Vanderbilt University
University of Minnesota - TC (I have state and school ties)
Baylor College of Medicine ((I have heard nothing but great things, but only 24% OOS)
Dartmouth Medical School
Emory University
Boston University
Wake Forest University
Tulane University
Georgetown University

Safety (4-5)

University of North Dakota (state school, I would still love going here!)
Brown University
Creighton University
Medical College of Wisconsin
Drexel University
George Washington University


Well, the goal of this thread is to narrow down my list, or expand me into schools that fit my stats and my 'person'. I find it hard to label any schools as 'safety' since there is no such thing as an easy medical school. I believe I've weeded out all the schools that don't take OOS'ers, but could be wrong.

Basically:
(1) Are any of these schools out of my reach and I ought to remove them? Please explain why if so (I can take criticism!). IE: I don't have more than 3 months of research at a time, no pubs, etc.
(2) Should I be adding any schools to make sure I get in somewhere? Please state which and why so I know.

I realize this is an expensive process and secondaries take a lot of time, and I have a limited amount of money and time. But I am willing to invest anything (loans/time-wise) in order to get into a school I'm happy with!

I will likely purchase the MSAR online tomorrow to start digging into mission statements myself. If I could get some advice (especially from those attending these universities) I would be extremely grateful!

Thanks for all your help!
- HopefulNodakMD

Non-PLME acceptance rate for the Alpert school hovers around 3.5%. Definitely NOT a safety.

 

[HopefulNodakMD]

with your stats you would be competitive at a lot of the OOS schools that people often try to deter others from applying from. and yeah I definitely would not call GW a "safety," considering they get 14000 apps a year. but you seem to understand that. I'd give uw madison a try.

also a huge majority of Brown's incoming class comes from a special program they have, I think I read on the website that <40 come in through the "traditional" amcas route.

What OOS schools would you suggest that most others aren't competitive at? Any of them particularly intriguing?

I will look into Brown's admissions and decide whether it's worth applying to. Would this info be in the MSAR?

And I'll swap GW to "Competitive," I was simply struggling to find 'Safety' schools since they really don't exist.

I'll add UW-Madison, I absolutely loved their campus when I was there last year.

Thanks for your help!

I suppose another question I'll add to my original post will be
(3) Are there any great Financial Aid options that I should consider at the schools? IE: Outrageous OOS costs (this is common from what I hear), full-ride tuition (Mayo), etc.

 

[HopefulNodakMD]

Non-PLME acceptance rate for the Alpert school hovers around 3.5%. Definitely NOT a safety.

I'm assuming by "Non-PLME" and "Alpert School" you're referring to the program that was mentioned for Brown?

Thanks Finches and 1289, I think I'll just cut out Brown. It sounds like too much is already against it and there's plenty of other places that'll take my money

Finches, mind taking out that giant quote? I'd appreciate it, it takes up a lot of space on my smartphone

 

[1289]

yeah I go to UW, it's pretty awesome

OOS schools: Univ of Illinois, ohio state, penn state, Indiana, Mich state. you don't need to apply to all of these, just a few I could think of.

I saw that about Brown on the school's website, but I guess on MSAR it probably says how many were accepted via "special programs" on the school's homepage,

 

[HopefulNodakMD]

yeah I go to UW, it's pretty awesome

OOS schools: Univ of Illinois, ohio state, penn state, Indiana, Mich state. you don't need to apply to all of these, just a few I could think of.

I saw that about Brown on the school's website, but I guess on MSAR it probably says how many were accepted via "special programs" on the school's homepage,

Jealous!

Interesting fact: I got rejected by UW-Madison's Biological Sciences program for undergrad. I realize those BS programs are pretty much [Public] Ivy Leagues for acceptance, but still find it funny I probably have a better shot getting into their medical school than their undergrad....

Know anything about those other public schools that would entice me to apply there? I think I'll have to invest into the MSAR

Thanks again!

 

[1289]

haha I got wait listed originally at UW for undergrad, but yet I got into UMichigan right away. I never understand these admissions processes!

I honestly don't think you need to apply to all of those public schools haha you have great stats and will get in SOMEWHERE, I just thought you should know that you're competitive at a lot of schools. Good luck!

 

[HopefulNodakMD]

haha I got wait listed originally at UW for undergrad, but yet I got into UMichigan right away. I never understand these admissions processes!

I honestly don't think you need to apply to all of those public schools haha you have great stats and will get in SOMEWHERE, I just thought you should know that you're competitive at a lot of schools. Good luck!

Yup, they waitlisted me as well, ended up getting a rejection letter during my Senior summer. Damn you, UW-Madison! I really just wanted to go wakeboarding on that lake, to be honest... haha priorities, priorities.

Yeah, I'm a bit concerned about becoming overwhelmed with secondaries... and [hopefully] interviews. The expense, the time, etc, would be pretty intense, and I have a difficult Fall schedule.

I am very happy with how my application seems to be turning out, but thanks for the compliments. Hey, maybe I'll get into a dream school after all!

I wish you the best at UW-Madison!

 

[HopefulNodakMD]

Anyone else have advice, especially regarding upper/middle tier schools?

 

[Amba]

yeah I go to UW, it's pretty awesome

same here. I'm working in a dept. of the med school and everyone I've met is awesome. All the med students I've met love it here as well.

You'll be competitive almost anywhere OP and you're almost guaranteed to get in somewhere (assuming decent interview skills, PS, etc...). The only thing that might hold you back at the top schools is your somewhat limited research; is there anything tangible to show from it? Other than that, your app looks pretty amazing

 

[HopefulNodakMD]

same here. I'm working in a dept. of the med school and everyone I've met is awesome. All the med students I've met love it here as well.

You'll be competitive almost anywhere OP and you're almost guaranteed to get in somewhere (assuming decent interview skills, PS, etc...). The only thing that might hold you back at the top schools is your somewhat limited research; is there anything tangible to show from it? Other than that, your app looks pretty amazing

I am pretty social, I figure the interviews, although very anxiety-inducing, should go well. My PS is hopefully above-par, but not much 'breathtaking' for me to say since I am not from an extremely diverse background, just lots of leadership experience.

My research experiences are both from 3 month internships. I hope to secure a LoR from my PI from last summer, he did his PhD work at Johns Hopkins and has done some very significant work since. I will simply have to see if he would be willing to write me a luminous recommendation that would catch some eyes. That may be my only 'saving grace' for research. I have no publications, unfortunately, but I'm an undergrad at a small private school, there simply wasn't much option for that, so hopefully they will understand that.

Thanks though!

Specific question though, with my stats, how should I be weighting my Top/Mid/Low tier schools? Would applying to 20 schools really be a feasible thing? That's a lot of money and a lot of time, but would allow me to apply to ~10 upper tiers with 5 middle and 5 lower. Or should I do the typical 5/5/5 split? Or 7/5/3?

I don't want to apply too top-heavy and then get rejected from all of them!

 

[Amba]

I don't want to apply too top-heavy and then get rejected from all of them!

That's a reasonable concern. How much time are you willing to spend on secondaries? For what it's worth, I have similar stats (see MDApps for details if you want) and I plan on applying to 25 schools or so next year. If you're set on attending a top 20 school (which isn't as bad of a thing as some on SDN make it seem), feel free to add more mid to top tier...just make sure you have plenty of safeties as well.

 

[HopefulNodakMD]

That's a reasonable concern. How much time are you willing to spend on secondaries? For what it's worth, I have similar stats (see MDApps for details if you want) and I plan on applying to 25 schools or so next year. If you're set on attending a top 20 school (which isn't as bad of a thing as some on SDN make it seem), feel free to add more mid to top tier...just make sure you have plenty of safeties as well.

Wow, we have extremely similar profiles. I wish you the best of luck! Maybe we'll see each other in class eventually

25 is a lot of schools, I don't know if I could put that much time into secondaries, but I do have all of August off at this point.

You have a lot more research than I do, so I don't think I would be competitive. Maybe a few others will be a bit more friendly to my lack of research simply because I'm from a small school. But how much will not having extensive research end up hurting my applications? Should I simply not apply to schools that emphasize it (WashU for example)?

Do you think 4 'safety' schools would be enough? I am a ND resident, so UND is probably about as good as a safety as they come, as I actually really love their curriculum as well. I know you probably know as much as I do, but I feel like if I go over 20 schools it will (1) Look bad (2) Sacrifice the quality of my secondaries (3) cost a shiat ton of money.

I am actually worried that the lower tier schools will 'know' that they are my safeties, and will have a fun time rejecting me because of that...

Also, why are you taking a year off?

 

[Amba]

Wow, we have extremely similar profiles. I wish you the best of luck! Maybe we'll see each other in class eventually

25 is a lot of schools, I don't know if I could put that much time into secondaries, but I do have all of August off at this point.

You have a lot more research than I do, so I don't think I would be competitive, especially at a school like WashU. Maybe a few others will be a bit more friendly to my lack of research simply because I'm from a small school.

Do you think 4 'safety' schools would be enough? I am a ND resident, so UND is probably about as good as a safety as they come, as I actually really love their curriculum as well. I know you probably know as much as I do, but I feel like if I go over 20 schools it will (1) Look bad (2) Sacrifice the quality of my secondaries (3) cost a shiat ton of money.

I am actually worried that the lower tier schools will 'know' that they are my safeties, and will have a fun time rejecting me because of that...

Also, why are you taking a year off?

Looking at your list again, some of your more mid-tier match schools are definitely below your stats. UW-Madison (if you have state ties), Georgetown, George Washington, and Tulane will all like your significant volunteering. The only downside to some of those are 10,000+ apps. Either way, I think your school list looks good overall (except for probably Brown). One other "safety" you might consider adding is Vermont (54% OOS if I remember correctly) if living in beautiful Burlington is your thing...

The whole lower tier rejecting solely because they are safeties to some is a myth. It's probably more to do with people being lazy on those secondaries or coming off as aloof/stuck up in interviews. So just avoid that and you'll be fine.

And I'm taking a year off to work on ECs. I am, or at least was, low on shadowing and clinical volunteering, but those are taken care of this summer. I also need two more LORs from profs who have taught me, want a pub or two from my research, and plan on doing an Ironman in my gap year. So there were a lot of factors haha.

 

[H Y F R]

Seriously?

 

[HopefulNodakMD]

Looking at your list again, some of your more mid-tier match schools are definitely below your stats. UW-Madison (if you have state ties), Georgetown, George Washington, and Tulane will all like your significant volunteering. The only downside to some of those are 10,000+ apps. Either way, I think your school list looks good overall (except for probably Brown). One other "safety" you might consider adding is Vermont (54% OOS if I remember correctly) if living in beautiful Burlington is your thing...

The whole lower tier rejecting solely because they are safeties to some is a myth. It's probably more to do with people being lazy on those secondaries or coming off as aloof/stuck up in interviews. So just avoid that and you'll be fine.

And I'm taking a year off to work on ECs. I am, or at least was, low on shadowing and clinical volunteering, but those are taken care of this summer. I also need two more LORs from profs who have taught me, want a pub or two from my research, and plan on doing an Ironman in my gap year. So there were a lot of factors haha.

I have UW-Madison 'state ties' only because I live in the Midwest, I do not have time there during my lifetime other than infrequent visits.

So should I be considering those schools as my 'lower tiers'? Georgetown, Tulane, George Washington, UND, Drexel, Creighton, Medical College of Wisc., etc?

I have your LizzyM selector list (PM if you want to know how... haha), and it is pretty overwhelming having 85% of schools listed as a "Safety" because I feel that simply cannot be true with how competitive schools are. Should I really be top-loading my application like that?

Let's say I do:

10 Top 20 Universities, my "Hopeful" and "Go for it" - Stanford/Johns Hopkins/Vanderbilt/Mayo/etc
7-8 Top 40 Universities, my "Upper-tier Safeties" - UW - Madison/UoMinn - TC/Vermont/BU/Georgetown/etc
3-4 Bottom 80 Universities, my "Lower-tier Safeties" - UND/Creighton/Drexel/Tulane/GWU/etc

I feel like if this backfired, it wouldn't be pretty.

Seriously?

I know I would get in somewhere, it's where I am capable of getting in. That's what "School List" threads are about, no?

 

[H Y F R]

MazelTov on your stats, and yes you will get in somewhere. But I don't see your need for a thread like this, extensive detailing, and "tiering" and grouping of schools. Then again, I don't understand any of these chance threads, unless you are borderline and you really need the help.

 

[HopefulNodakMD]

MazelTov on your stats, and yes you will get in somewhere. But I don't see your need for a thread like this, extensive detailing, and "tiering" and grouping of schools. Then again, I don't understand any of these chance threads, unless you are borderline and you really need the help.

Tiering is just to spread out schools intelligently, if you don't like it why do you view these threads?

What's the difference between someone with low stats asking how to improve and someone with high stats asking where they are competitive? Each school has its preference of applicants. I likely would have applied (and wasted a bunch of money) on Brown had I not been told otherwise...

"What are my chances" encompasses all levels of applicants, not just those struggling.

 

[H Y F R]

Tiering is just to spread out schools intelligently, 1) if you don't like it why do you view these threads?

2) What's the difference between someone with low stats asking how to improve and someone with high stats asking where they are competitive? Each school has its preference of applicants. I likely would have applied (and wasted a bunch of money) on Brown had I not been told otherwise...

3) "What are my chances" encompasses all levels of applicants, not just those struggling.

1) I am not violating any terms of this forum by viewing a thread I disagree with and respectfully stating my opinion

2) The difference? grace and humility

3) I guess you are right here.

 

[HopefulNodakMD]

1) I am not violating any terms of this forum by viewing a thread I disagree with and respectfully stating my opinion

2) The difference? grace and humility

3) I guess you are right here.

1) But it accomplishes nothing; I'm not trying to be a dick, I was just saying I'm bordering between mid and upper tier and was questioning how I should [strategically] spread my schools out for the best odds.

2) It's the internet, not a seat at the King's table or a patient's room. Humility and Grace are long lost here, but mind you, violating them was not my intention.

3) Thus, I don't see the problem. I'm simply asking for advice, and some were happy to help and I appreciate that since I do not have other people with personal experience to ask.

 

[H Y F R]

good luck bud

 

[HopefulNodakMD]

Whether that was condescending or not, thanks. I meant no ill will.

 

[H Y F R]

Whether that was condescending or not, thanks. I meant no ill will.

I am sure you didn't. Like you said, you are entitled to ask for help here. I am coming from a far from traditional place, and I am grateful for the blessings I have been given. Along my path, I have learned the value of humility and grace, as this makes me a better human being and a better physician in my future. When I see threads like this, I can't help but respectfully tell people that there is no need for a discussion like this to this extent. But again, it is your right to share your thoughts. And honestly, I commend you for your record. You seem like a good kid. Thanks for not tripping out on my comments. I wish you nothing but the best of luck in your future. I am sure you will be accepted to a school you deserve and one that will appreciate you being there.