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Giovanotto

Giovanotto

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Hi SDN,

I'm creating this thread to get some help on selecting schools for the 2015 application cycle. I've been so busy with other aspects of the applications that quite frankly I have no idea where to apply. I'm willing to go anywhere for school, no reservations. Also important to note that I'm an international student.

Should I bother with MD schools? The new ones maybe? Which DO schools am I competitive for? I'm more concerned about getting in somewhere then my residency outlook at the moment. I mean I know I can't be too picky with my stats, and I feel like getting in anywhere would be a relief.

Thank you in advance for the advice.

In the following list you can also look at the schools of osteopathic medicine (resulting in a DO title), taken from aacom.org, which are considerably more open to international students (19 out of total of 29 of them accept foreigners):
  • A.T. Still University Kirksville COM (ATSU-KCOM):
  • *Arizona COM of Midwestern University (AZCOM/MWU): foreigners must provide a proof of sufficient funds prior to matriculation (more info in the official international applicant packet)
  • Campbell University SOM (CUSOM)
  • *Chicago COM of Midwestern University (CCOM/MWU): foreigners must provide a proof of sufficient funds prior to matriculation
  • *Kansas City University of Medicine and Biosciences COM (KCUMB-COM): foreigners must provide a proof of sufficient funds in order to receive student visa
  • Lake Erie COM–Erie/Seton Hill (LECOM): contact [email protected] for more information
  • *Lincoln Memorial University–DeBusk COM (LMU-DCOM): foreigners need to submit an amount equivalent to one year of tuition prior to matriculation
  • Marian University COM (MU-COM): contact the MU-COM Office of Admissions for requirements at the time of application
  • Michigan State University COM (MSUCOM)
  • *Philadelphia COM (PCOM) and Georgia Campus-Philadelphia COM (GA-PCOM): must provide a proof of ability to pay for the studies
  • Nova Southeastern University COM (NSU-COM): contact [email protected] or call 1-800-541-6682, extension 27240 for more information
  • Rowan University SOM (RowanSOM): call Admissions Office for information, (856) 566-7050 - TAK
  • Touro COM (TouroCOM-NY)
  • University of New England COM (UNECOM):foreigners need to show proof of ability to pay for one year of tuition
  • University of North Texas Health Science Center/Texas COM (UNTHSC/TCOM)
  • University of Pikeville-Kentucky COM (UP-KYCOM)
  • Edward Via COM – Carolinas Campus (VCOM-CC) and Edward Via COM – Virginia Campus (VCOM-VC)
  • Western Univ. of Health Sciences–COM of the Pacific
  • *(WesternU/COMP): foreigners are only accepted at the Pomona, CA campus------> DREAM SCHOOL
  • William Carey University COM (WCUCOM)

Last update: 11/4/201

The above was copy and pasted from:
http://premedusa.blogspot.com/2013/05/medical-schools-admitting-internationals.html
--but edited by me.

From the above list, I'm thinking of applying to about 10-15 schools. But which ones?

*Double checked by me
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Right off the bat, you are greatly limited by your international student status. Take off ATSU-KCOM (not accepting international student though CIB states otherwise), CUSOM (claims to accept international student but look for students with very particular background, i.e. rural medicine oriented, willing to stay in the area to practise), WCUCOM (same as CUSOM, do not apply unless you fit their mission). PCOM, VCOM, KYCOM, and LECOM may accept international students but perhaps only those with outstanding profile or those who fit their missions. TCOM and RowanSOM are public schools and have strong bias for IS students; you are unlikely to receive interview without a good profile.

You should apply to all other schools on the list. Depending on your MCAT score (aim for 28+) and whether you have DO LOR (check the requirements for each school), add any of PCOM, VCOM, KYCOM, LECOM, TCOM, and RowanSOM. And unless you are URM or you score exceptionally on MCAT (35+), your chances at MD schools are near to zero since international students are held to a much higher standard due to limited spot and the lack of state residency advantages.
 
Initial posted edited, thank you for the lo-down.
 
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Just letting you know as well, keep in mind that what you are receiving on your MCAT scores right now will not necessarily be the case during the actual MCAT. Your average for all five exams is 23.4 which will most likely get you a 23 or 24. Being an international student with that type of MCAT score will not help your chances of getting into the school. Once you are performing above 30 on the later AAMC exams (this is of course for the previous exam, not really sure what the new one will be like) then you will most likely hit the 29-30 mark on the actual MCAT.
 
@Nesmall2, I understand what you mean, but what was the point of averaging my scores? My first MCAT scores are no longer indicative of my current performance -- I've certainly gone a long way and hope to continue improving. I'm also very aware of the fact that I'm taking the "new" MCAT. I've taken their official practice exam and I didn't do so bad, percentage wise. Thanks for the insight either way.

I noted my MCAT performance to show that I'm improving and still have time till my April test date comes around.
 
Giovanotto said:
@Nesmall2, I understand what you mean, but what was the point of averaging my scores? My first MCAT scores are no longer indicative of my current performance -- I've certainly gone a long way and hope to continue improving. I'm also very aware of the fact that I'm taking the "new" MCAT. I've taken their official practice exam and I didn't do so bad, percentage wise. Thanks for the insight either way.

I noted my MCAT performance to show that I'm improving and still have time till my April test date comes around.
Click to expand...
I apologize, I didn't mean to insult you. You are making great progress and with time it will only increase. I didn't mean to seen insensitive. I was just giving an example to my study skills. My scores increased dramatically throughout the study process but in the end my score was an average for all my exams. This was just me though.
 
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s5260205 said:
Right off the bat, you are greatly limited by your international student status. Take off ATSU-KCOM (not accepting international student though CIB states otherwise), CUSOM (claims to accept international student but look for students with very particular background, i.e. rural medicine oriented, willing to stay in the area to practise), WCUCOM (same as CUSOM, do not apply unless you fit their mission). PCOM, VCOM, KYCOM, and LECOM may accept international students but perhaps only those with outstanding profile or those who fit their missions. TCOM and RowanSOM are public schools and have strong bias for IS students; you are unlikely to receive interview without a good profile.

You should apply to all other schools on the list. Depending on your MCAT score (aim for 28+) and whether you have DO LOR (check the requirements for each school), add any of PCOM, VCOM, KYCOM, LECOM, TCOM, and RowanSOM. And unless you are URM or you score exceptionally on MCAT (35+), your chances at MD schools are near to zero since international students are held to a much higher standard due to limited spot and the lack of state residency advantages.
Click to expand...
We have quite a few international students in my class here at KCOM...
 
abolt18 said:
We have quite a few international students in my class here at KCOM...
Click to expand...
I believe they no longer consider international student applications. DMU used to accept international students but no longer does so since a few years ago. I guess it's the increased number of applications from domestic students.
 
s5260205 said:
I believe they no longer consider international student applications. DMU used to accept international students but no longer does so since a few years ago. I guess it's the increased number of applications from domestic students.
Click to expand...
Any evidence to substantiate that claim?
 
abolt18 said:
I guess I didn't realize there was a difference between international and permanent resident. Pretty sure all our 'international students' are permanent residents. They've all been here for undergrad+ that I can think of.
Click to expand...

Huge difference. A permanent resident is someone in the possession of a green card who may choose to become a citizen after 5 years of being a permanent resident. We can live, work and get financial aid; while international students have to have a valid visa, a work permit with many restrictions, and can't get financial aid. Someone can still graduate a U.S. college as an international student, and in fact I'm pretty sure you have to graduate college here for your prerequisite work to be recognized. The reason why med schools don't take many international students is because they would have to finance their education completely out of pocket and even when they graduate, they will face significant challenges with finding residencies who would want to deal with their visa paperwork.
 
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allantois said:
Huge difference. A permanent resident is someone in the possession of a green card who may choose to become a citizen after 5 years of being a permanent resident. We can live, work and get financial aid; while international students have to have a valid visa, a work permit with many restrictions, and can't get financial aid. Someone can still graduate a U.S. college as an international student, and in fact I'm pretty sure you have to graduate college here for your prerequisite work to be recognized. The reason why med schools don't take many international students is because they would have to finance their education completely out of pocket and even when they graduate, they will face significant challenges with finding residencies who would want to deal with their visa paperwork.
Click to expand...
Got it, in that case I only know of one international student for sure in my class but there may be more.
 
abolt18 said:
Got it, in that case I only know of one international student for sure in my class but there may be more.
Click to expand...

Try marrying them, they must be pretty rich! :D
 
Giovanotto said:
Wanted to update this thread with my scores for further advice.

Chemical and Physical Foundations of Biological Systems 32% - 47%
Critical Analysis and Reasoning Skills 62% - 77%
Biological and Biochemical Foundations of Living Systems 39% - 54%
Psychological, Social, and Biological Foundations of Behavior 39% - 54%
MCAT Total Score 42% - 52%

Absolute retake for the schools above?
Click to expand...

If I interpret these scores correctly it is like having a 24-25 on the old MCAT. With you being an international student, it is tough to give advice. You may need to retake. The schools on your list that you might have a chance with are LMU, MU, VCOM, and maybe LECOM-erie. Your chances are extremely low with the others.
 
IslandStyle808 said:
If I interpret these scores correctly it is like having a 24-25 on the old MCAT. With you being an international student, it is tough to give advice. You may need to retake. The schools on your list that you might have a chance with are LMU, MU, VCOM, and maybe LECOM-erie. Your chances are extremely low with the others.
Click to expand...

Yeah, maybe so, hu? Sigh, I really hated the entire experience and am really not looking forward to trying again. I've always been a very poor standardized test taker. The entire "studying and taking the MCAT" experience taught me a lot and I feel like I've jumped through all the application "hoops" now. I really don't see myself scoring incredibly higher on a retake either--I gave it my all.

Would it be stubborn of me to try and apply this cycle with my current "score" to all the schools on the above list and then IF I get rejections consider a retake? Or should I retake in August/September and still apply this cycle and then just update my scores? I know nobody wants to retake this thing, but I'm really burned out from it and from classes and various other stresses.

It's amazing how inflated GPAs and MCAT score requirements have gotten in the last couple of years. I've been on this forum for almost two years now and I know in the past a 25 MCAT would certainly not have been a death sentence for DO programs.
 
Giovanotto said:
Yeah, maybe so, hu? Sigh, I really hated the entire experience and am really not looking forward to trying again. I've always been a very poor standardized test taker. The entire "studying and taking the MCAT" experience taught me a lot and I feel like I've jumped through all the application "hoops" now. I really don't see myself scoring incredibly higher on a retake either--I gave it my all.

Would it be stubborn of me to try and apply this cycle with my current "score" to all the schools on the above list and then IF I get rejections consider a retake? Or should I retake in August/September and still apply this cycle and then just update my scores? I know nobody wants to retake this thing, but I'm really burned out from it and from classes and various other stresses.

It's amazing how inflated GPAs and MCAT score requirements have gotten in the last couple of years. I've been on this forum for almost two years now and I know in the past a 25 MCAT would certainly not have been a death sentence for DO programs.
Click to expand...

You need to retake and you can still apply if you do well. Don't count on getting in with those scores, so if you want you can apply to one school while waiting on the new score. You can put that you are a permanent resident only when you have that green card on your hands. If you do decide to wait until next year (you still need to retake!), you will be at a significant advantage with the residency thing (still won't be a resident of any state, though).
 
allantois said:
You can put that you are a permanent resident only when you have that green card on your hands.
Click to expand...

Most of the time the people on here are really helpful, but sometimes I get the most awkward, mixed replies. Who are you to give me legal, ethical advice? It's like you made 101 assumptions before making that statement--I'm blown away. I appreciate your other advice though, even if it sucks to hear.
 
Giovanotto said:
Most of the time the people on here are really helpful, but sometimes I get the most awkward, mixed replies. Who are you to give me legal, ethical advice? It's like you made 101 assumptions before making that statement--I'm blown away. I appreciate your other advice though, even if it sucks to hear.
Click to expand...

You send a photocopy of your green card to schools that you apply.
 
allantois said:
You send a photocopy of your green card to schools that you apply.
Click to expand...
That's fine. I have a pretty good grasp on that aspect of the application and my life, but thanks for the heads up. I will be applying as an international student this cycle.
 
Giovanotto said:
Wanted to update this thread with my scores for further advice.

Chemical and Physical Foundations of Biological Systems 32% - 47%
Critical Analysis and Reasoning Skills 62% - 77%
Biological and Biochemical Foundations of Living Systems 39% - 54%
Psychological, Social, and Biological Foundations of Behavior 39% - 54%
MCAT Total Score 42% - 52%

Absolute retake for the schools above?
Click to expand...
What is your 3 digit score?

strange how the percentile ranges are so broad. They should just give a single percentile for each section and for the overall score.
 
user3 said:
What is your 3 digit score?

strange how the percentile ranges are so broad. They should just give a single percentile for each section and for the overall score.
Click to expand...

I agree, they are really broad. Apparently, I get my 3 digit score on June 16th--hoping for a 500+ score...
 
Giovanotto said:
Yeah, maybe so, hu? Sigh, I really hated the entire experience and am really not looking forward to trying again. I've always been a very poor standardized test taker. The entire "studying and taking the MCAT" experience taught me a lot and I feel like I've jumped through all the application "hoops" now. I really don't see myself scoring incredibly higher on a retake either--I gave it my all.

Would it be stubborn of me to try and apply this cycle with my current "score" to all the schools on the above list and then IF I get rejections consider a retake? Or should I retake in August/September and still apply this cycle and then just update my scores? I know nobody wants to retake this thing, but I'm really burned out from it and from classes and various other stresses.

It's amazing how inflated GPAs and MCAT score requirements have gotten in the last couple of years. I've been on this forum for almost two years now and I know in the past a 25 MCAT would certainly not have been a death sentence for DO programs.
Click to expand...

A 25 isn't a death sentence, even I got interviews with a 25. However, combined with the fact your a international student, this will put you out of the running for the high stat schools. You may have a chance with MU, LMU, KYCOM, Lake Erie, ACOM, VCOM (all 3), WVSOM, Burell-COM, and PNWU.
 
IslandStyle808 said:
A 25 isn't a death sentence, even I got interviews with a 25. However, combined with the fact your a international student, this will put you out of the running for the high stat schools. You may have a chance with MU, LMU, KYCOM, Lake Erie, ACOM, VCOM (all 3), WVSOM, Burell-COM, and PNWU.
Click to expand...

Would you go as far as saying that it would be foolish of me to apply to all of the schools on Post #1 and some of the ones you've mentioned here?
 
Giovanotto said:
Would you go as far as saying that it would be foolish of me to apply to all of the schools on Post #1 and some of the ones you've mentioned here?
Click to expand...

I don't want to go as far as say foolish. There have been cases with an early application that one could get into certain schools such as KCUMB, RVU, ATSU-SOMA, Touro-NV, PCOM-ga (has regional bias), Western-COMP, and NOVA. These schools are moderately competitive to highly competitive. I would say these are definitely reach schools with an early application. However, schools such as Touro-CA, Touro-NY, AZCOM, CCOM, MSU-COM, and PCOM-pa are extremely difficult, even with an early application. You can try if you have the money, but it would be a waste IMO.
 
.
 
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Can't apply to ACOM they require citizenship. At the interview you have to bring a passport or birth certificate
 
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Giovanotto said:
Is ACOM the same thing as AZCOM?
Click to expand...

No its Alabama College of Osteopathic Medicine. I was just going off someone else post telling you to consider that school
 
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kenjixshadow said:
@Giovanotto You need to retake because you're an international student. Hence, you need to be more competitive than the residents here. If a school has to choose between you and another applicant with the same MCAT score & GPA, why should they choose you over a citizen? Ppl here won't have issue with visa or student loans.

Btw, with your current score, you can can forget about TCOM, UNECOM, KCU, RVU, Western-COMP, NOVA, PCOM-PA, MSU-COM, AZCOM, CCOM, all Touro, and dare I say MU too.
Click to expand...

Out of curiosity, and I'm not necessarily doubting you, but are you coming to this conclusion because of my stats + international student status, or simply off of my stats? I ask because I've been spending a lot of time looking at these school's admission pages and although my MCAT score isn't competitive, the rest of my application certainly is and they all state that the MCAT is "Only one factor of the application". I get that I'm probably beating a dead horse here, but it comes off incredibly hypocritical of them to make those statements and the knock me out of the pool because of my average, sub-optimal MCAT score. Could I retake it again? Sure, probably, I think I'm lucky enough to get a chance at it, but the whole thing does seem rather foolish at this point. I understand that I'm being somewhat naive here, so excuse me for my soft rant/plead for mercy!
 
Thank you very much for your in-depth analysis and clarification. I will proceed with caution this cycle!

I'm going to hope that my score does end up around 50% percentile and that the new scoring system will somehow play to my advantage. I'll let everyone know how this cycle went, but for obvious reasons, my optimism isn't high. Nevertheless, I'll be hoping for the best. I may end up applying to 18 schools this cycle, and I'll gladly go to any one of them.
 
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Need some strategic help.

1)Send primaries with this score and wish for the best
2) Send primaries with this score and add a planned date, even though not sure I would retake
2a) If I do retake it would be best if I did after the fall semester, therefore it would be sometime in February 2016, is this too late?
2b) Retake in the middle of Fall semester ~ October (Couldn't I be dealing with interviews then though?)
3) Send primaries with no mcat and then later update with both this score and a retake score
4)????
 
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I think you may be best served skipping this cycle with a 43rd percentile score.

Apologies.
 
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Cawolf said:
I think you may be best served skipping this cycle with a 43rd percentile score.

Apologies.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure I will have the ability to apply again in the near future, hence my anxiety and call for help regarding this cycle. I am planning on submitting tonight or tomorrow, and I wanted to get a consensus for which strategy would best suit me.

If it wasn't for other circumstances, you're right, I probably would have opted out of this cycle.
 
Anybody? I could really use some guidance about this, please.
 
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43%ile is the rough equivalent of 24. I say go for it and see what happens
 
go for it. But do not apply to high stat places. My guess would be apply to LMU-DCOM, VCOM all branches, KYCOM, BCOM. You can try LECOMs. PNWU gives Californians interviews most of the time. Usually late but its an interview. Western Oregon may also take a shot on you. I don't foresee Pomona due to the mcat
 
DO2015CA said:
go for it. But do not apply to high stat places. My guess would be apply to LMU-DCOM, VCOM all branches, KYCOM, BCOM. You can try LECOMs. PNWU gives Californians interviews most of the time. Usually late but its an interview. Western Oregon may also take a shot on you. I don't foresee Pomona due to the mcat
Click to expand...

They are an international applicant.
 
Cawolf said:
They are an international applicant.
Click to expand...

Ohhh... Ya you need to be better than a marginal candidate if you're international. My thought is retake, think about PA, or go to the country where you're a national and go to school
 
I'll apply this cycle with my score, and if I don't get in, I will retake the MCAT and use that to explain myself as a re-applicant.
 
Giovanotto said:
I'll apply this cycle with my score, and if I don't get in, I will retake the MCAT and use that to explain myself as a re-applicant.
Click to expand...

Best of luck, but why even ask if you knew what you wanted to do from the beginning?
 
Cawolf said:
Best of luck, but why even ask if you knew what you wanted to do from the beginning?
Click to expand...

I knew somebody would have said that.

I didn't exactly get constructive criticism right? I was trying to figure out the best way to go about this, (RE: MCAT SCORE), but nobody advised me. You simply said to skip this cycle, which unfortunately, isn't an option for me. I hope they can see past my MCAT score, is all. I don't have any self-doubts about being able to handle medical school.

Plus, being an international student might not be perceived differently at DO schools as much as MD. I called many schools and they supposedly treat them the same in the application process. I mean I've been here for 14 years, cmon... you could see why I get upset about being disadvantaged as an international.

Edit: I might not even get the option to re-apply, so we'll see.
 
Best of luck.

You should report your results after the cycle so others in your situation can have a reference.
 
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