School messed up my LOR for residency, What should I do?

[PDK12]

Hi everyone,

My university mixed up my Letters of recommendation with respect to specialty. They assigned it under the wrong specialty, and it was sent to all the residencies for another specialty.

I am not really sure what I should or can do about this. Its pretty late in the application cycle and I applied to a ton of residencies and have only gotten a handful of interviews.

What should I do?

Is there any legal action I can take against the university for this, since they are responsible? If yes, can you PM me contact information for someone who has dealt with something like this before?

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[BoardingDoc]

Hi everyone,

My university mixed up my Letters of recommendation with respect to specialty. They assigned it under the wrong specialty, and it was sent to all the residencies for another specialty.

I am not really sure what I should or can do about this. Its pretty late in the application cycle and I applied to a ton of residencies and have only gotten a handful of interviews.

What should I do?

Is there any legal action I can take against the university for this, since they are responsible? If yes, can you PM me contact information for someone who has dealt with something like this before?

Why did your school have control over your LORs to begin with? Are you a DO/IMG? I only ask because I know that when I applied, I was able to have my LORs uploaded to ERAS directly by the person writing it, and the onus was on me to specify what program and specialty the letters were going to. This may not be the case for the DO match or for IMGs though.

 

[Siggy]

Why did your school have control over your LORs to begin with? Are you a DO/IMG? I only ask because I know that when I applied, I was able to have my LORs uploaded to ERAS directly by the person writing it, and the onus was on me to specify what program and specialty the letters were going to. This may not be the case for the DO match or for IMGs though.

For ERAS, the person writing the letter has the option of either uploading it themselves, or sending it to your school (including residents reapplying through the Match... my token this year still came from my medical school). In my school's case, even if the person writing the letter uploads the letter themselves, the school still has to approve the letter as a quality assurance measure. Regardless, it should be pretty hard to mess up letters since the cover letter includes a LOR ID number in addition to your AAMC number.

 

[BoardingDoc]

For ERAS, the person writing the letter has the option of either uploading it themselves, or sending it to your school (including residents reapplying through the Match... my token this year still came from my medical school). In my school's case, even if the person writing the letter uploads the letter themselves, the school still has to approve the letter as a quality assurance measure. Regardless, it should be pretty hard to mess up letters since the cover letter includes a LOR ID number in addition to your AAMC number.

Exactly. You have to create a LOR request on ERAS as a placeholder and then your LOR writer or your school can upload it to that slot. Unless PDK12 created requests with the wrong specialty him/herself, I don't see how this could have happened.

 

[123eyes]

Exactly. You have to create a LOR request on ERAS as a placeholder and then your LOR writer or your school can upload it to that slot. Unless PDK12 created requests with the wrong specialty him/herself, I don't see how this could have happened.

Because Registar's offices are imperfect places. One applicant I know got screwed over last year because the registrar somehow uploaded the Dean's letter as one of his regular LOR's. So to him, it looked like all of his letters had been uploaded, but there was no way to know that it had been assigned wrongly.

 

[ari202]

I thought you don't have to assign letters by specialty in ERAS. you can just upload them and click the box for each letter for each specific program.

 

[Beacopp665]

This happened to someone at my school too actually. Her letter writers sent their letters to our registrar and they accidentally uploaded one of them twice. So she assigned them appropriately and it looked like two different letter but there was in fact a duplicate. Luckily a program actually notified her relatively early on and they were able to correct it while invites were still going out

 

[PDK12]

I'm assuming the OP was applying to multiple different fields. So like his integrated plastics programs got his general surgery letters and vice versa. Or his psych and FM letters got switched, or whatever.

Yes, this is what happened. My letter writer wrote one letter, then addressed one to specialty A, and another to specialty B. Although I called, and double checked, and triple checked, somehow there was a "glitch" and the registrar still managed to mess it up.

I would appreciate any advice on what I can actually do, most of the comments are more concerned with how this happened. I'm just as lost as everyone else with how they let this happen.

 

[ari202]

I'm assuming the OP was applying to multiple different fields. So like his integrated plastics programs got his general surgery letters and vice versa. Or his psych and FM letters got switched, or whatever.

Yes, so lets say he applies to a Psych program (he can click on the program on eras, and then check the box next to the letters he wants for Psych (i.e. from Dr. Jane or Dr. Smith for instance). then he clicks save/select.

Then if he applies FM, he can manually click the box for the letters that are from FM writers (Dr. Pete or Dr. Donald for instance).

This is assuming he has multiple different letters uploaded (you can only send 4 at a time i think)

 

[ari202]

oh gotcha! i see what you mean. i guess the way to avoid this would have been just have the preceptor write a generic letter.

 

[Smurfette]

Moving to ERAS subforum

 

[Mass Effect]

oh gotcha! i see what you mean. i guess the way to avoid this would have been just have the preceptor write a generic letter.

That's a sure-fire way to not get interviews.

OP, I would ask the school what can be done. Maybe the dean can help make some phone calls on your behalf? I don't see how suing would help anything and would most likely just come back to bite you in the ass.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

As mentioned, I'm not sure there is much to do. Options:

1. Contact programs and try to explain things. I doubt much explanation is needed, as everyone knows what's going on. Having the Dean contact programs and explain it was their fault doesn't really do anything either. If one of the two fields you've applied to is much more competitive than the other, then perhaps contacting those programs with updated letters and an explanation might help (the less competitive field is probably unexcited about interviewing someone who they know is applying to something else, knowing they will be low on the ROL to start).

2. You could apply to more programs, now that it's fixed.

3. You could withdraw from the match and try again next year. Alternatively, you could rank only the more competitive field -- if you match, then you're done. If not, then you apply again next year to both fields again.
3A. if you choose this option, you could demand that your school extend you for another year for free, or arrange for paid research, etc. Much will depend upon how responsible they consider themselves.

4. Lawsuit is always an option. It is unclear how successful you would be. It would seem a lawsuit's best outcome would be a year of free medical school plus living expenses to let you try to match again.

 

[Siggy]

4. Lawsuit is always an option. It is unclear how successful you would be. It would seem a lawsuit's best outcome would be a year of free medical school plus living expenses to let you try to match again.

...and given the bajillion new 4th years going through the match PLUS all of the unmatched/prelim/transitional year applicants applying, how many programs would consider an applicant who sued their medical school, even if it is the medical school's fault?

 

[Winged Scapula]

...and given the bajillion new 4th years going through the match PLUS all of the unmatched/prelim/transitional year applicants applying, how many programs would consider an applicant who sued their medical school, even if it is the medical school's fault?

There's not a box on ERAS to click responding to, "have you sued your medical school"? No one needs to know.

 

[Siggy]

There's not a box on ERAS to click responding to, "have you sued your medical school"? No one needs to know.

I'm surprised that programs don't regularly Google the name of the people they're interviewing... or at least the top portion of their rank list.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

It's kinda a moot point. It would take longer than a year for the suit to be processed by the courts. So ultimately the question isn't whether you can sue your school, it's whether they are willing to negotiate with you to help address the error

 

[PDK12]

The school is stating that it would be an ACGME match violation if they were to contact the programs to explain to them that they have made an error. Is this true? I keep trying to call the ACGME, but nobody is picking up the phone.

 

[gutonc]

The school is stating that it would be an ACGME match violation if they were to contact the programs to explain to them that they have made an error. Is this true? I keep trying to call the ACGME, but nobody is picking up the phone.

No. They're trying to shirk responsibility. Have you spoken to the Dean or are you just talking to the front desk folk? You need to talk the Dean and your advisor.

 

[PDK12]

No. They're trying to shirk responsibility. Have you spoken to the Dean or are you just talking to the front desk folk? You need to talk the Dean and your advisor.

I actually spoke to the Vice Dean, the assistant Dean of student affairs, Dean of medical education, all at the same time and they state that they all consulted with the actual dean.

They are telling me they just want to upload the correct letters with a cover sheet explaining the mix up, but who will even read these letters this late in the cycle? I have also been rejected by several programs, these programs surely wont re-read my application.

I am not sure if they are just oblivious to the rules or if they are actually trying to do me harm. To tell you the truth, it seems like they are trying to get out of this by doing as little work as possible without considering me at all.

Its very sad when your own university pulls a stunt like this.

 

[LocumOnly]

I can't believe stuff like this happens. One of your terms in addressing this grievance should include termination of the person responsible.

 

[Frederica]

The school is stating that it would be an ACGME match violation if they were to contact the programs to explain to them that they have made an error. Is this true? I keep trying to call the ACGME, but nobody is picking up the phone.

This has nothing to do with the ACGME. If anything, this is an NRMP issue.

The ACGME doesn't care how you pick your trainees, I have checked on this for my programs multiple times, as long as they trainees meet the qualifications set by the ACGME and the Program. For example, an applicant trained in general surgery in a foreign training program is not eligible for some (might even be all, each RRC has their own rules) fellowships. They are required to complete an ACGME accredited or Canadian GSU program.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

Agree with Frederica, this has nothing to do with ACGME. Let's assume you (or admin) meant that contacting programs would be an NRMP match violation.

That's ridiculous. There's no violation, not even close. Your dean could call each PD individually, or send cookies, or anything, and it's totally fine.

The fact that their first answer to you wasn't "Holy crap, this is our fault, let's try to fix it ASAP" is bad news. Because it (mostly) is their fault, assuming all of the letters were correctly attached to cover letters etc.

Uploading the correct letters with a cover letter is a potential solution, but you're correct it is unlikely to have much positive impact. In fact, there's some chance that it might bring attention to the error that someone has (somehow) missed in reviewing your application. Even if they do upload new letters, the old ones remain visible and the new ones get addended to the bottom. So, overall, not very helpful.

As I mentioned already, there is no great solution to your problem. Applying to new programs with corrected letters might work, but it's very late. If you do this, create NEW slots in ERAS for the letters to be uploaded again -- as if they "fix" the current letters it will only append a copy of the new letter to the old letter.

Best option at this point:

Insist on meeting with the Dean of Students, perhaps with the Dean of the school personally.

1. Consider applying to new programs with fixed letters. Your school should pay ERAS fees for all new applications.
2. Have Dean contact these programs personally, explain the screw up, take responsibility for it, ask them to evaluate your application despite late submission.
3. Have Dean contact all of your 1st choice specialty programs and explain the situation.

Fork in the road: Will your school give you free tuition and COL expenses for another year?
Yes: Then cancel all of your second choice specialty interviews. Enter the match for your 1st choice specialty. If you match, you're done [although you could consider asking your school to reimburse you all ERAS/NRMP/Interview expenses for the catastrophe]. If not, then you complete a 5th year and match again next year with a new application, unlikely that anyone will remember you from this year.

No: You're in a tough spot. I would consider getting a lawyer -- the goal is not to go to court, but to force the above plan. Still stay in the match for your 1st choice specialty. You have to decide whether to rank the 2nd choice specialty, vs not matching and doing research and applying again, vs getting a prelim spot.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

I can't believe stuff like this happens. One of your terms in addressing this grievance should include termination of the person responsible.

Forgot to comment upon this. Do NOT do this. The Dean's office will decide what to do. Insisting on someone being fired simply makes you look like a jerk. Like Donald Trump. Don't be that guy/gal.

 

[LocumOnly]

I can't believe stuff like this happens. One of your terms in addressing this grievance should include termination of the person responsible.

If you're already suing your school might as well go for broke.

 

[gutonc]

If you're already suing your school might as well go for broke.

You're like your own little echo chamber.

 

[Law2Doc]

If you're already suing your school might as well go for broke.

Meh, the goal should never be to end up broke. Always stay on higher ground. I'm skeptical that you'd be able to prove damages in this kind of setting, and this would be a question for local counsel after the cycle if you go down that route, but in the event you do avail yourself to the legal system you don't really want documents to read like you are a spoiled brat demanding people lose their jobs over what was likely an isolated accident (even if to you it potentially was a costly one). Murphy's law suggests that it's inevitably some likable low wage secretary whose a single mom with sick children who was the culprit and you will seem like a beast in court if you demand her head.

 

[Sir Gillies]

I just wanted to say that I feel so bad for what you are going through! It's already stressful enough to try to get to get a residency spot, without having this mess happening to you.

I wonder if you could cut a deal with your med school and see if they can finance a one year masters. That gives you an opportunity to start fresh next match cycle, and boost up your CV by conducting research and all the good that comes with it (publications, presentations, experience).

Even, if a legal action is more than justified in my opinion, I wonder how much benefit you would get from it. I would seek independent professional legal advice before mentioning it to your med school.

I wish you the very best of luck!

 

[gutonc]

I just want to make sure that one thing is very clear to the OP (and others suggesting the option).

While it's true that your school f***ed up and are now just trying to dodge responsibility, if you decide to file any sort of legal action against your school, not only are you likely to lose (or win what will amount to a Pyrrhic victory at best), you will be publicly declaring that you no longer want a career in medicine.

There are only two real outcomes of a lawsuit for you, a multi-million dollar settlement (as likely as Santa bringing you the same amount of money in your stocking next week) or a lifetime of jokingly mis-spelling people's names on green and white coffee cups.

Choose wisely.

 

[LocumOnly]

.

 

[ari202]

That's a sure-fire way to not get interviews.

how is that sure fire way not to get interviews? I know of several people who have done this (appying to both Neuro & IM) and they have received interviews. Does anyone really give a lot of importance to LOR's anyways? you would not choose someone to write you a letter who doesn't know you well.

 

[ari202]

This is going to be very field dependent. For surgical subspecialties, letters matter a lot and yes, a generic LOR will be a big negative

Ok, what about IM and Neuro? You are only recommending an applicant, say this was written in the beginning of 3rd year when you didn't know what you wanted to do and your sweet FM preceptor wrote you a generic letter saying you would be a valuable addition to the medical community in general and any program would benefit from you?

 

[Mass Effect]

how is that sure fire way not to get interviews? I know of several people who have done this (appying to both Neuro & IM) and they have received interviews. Does anyone really give a lot of importance to LOR's anyways? you would not choose someone to write you a letter who doesn't know you well.

Yes, letters do matter. I don't know much about IM, but you better believe they matter in neuro. Your last line is amusing since sending a generic letter very much implies that the writer doesn't know you well. Letters don't just say "so and so was a wonderful third year." These letters aren't like pre-med letters for med school. These letters should outline why you're a good fit for the particular specialty you want. If you don't know what you want at the beginning of third-year but you know you want a letter from a particular attending, then ask them if they'll write you a letter when you settle on specialty choice. They understand that you might not know until the middle or late third year. Just keep in touch with them and when you know, send an email reminding them they said they would write a letter for you.

 

[organdonor]

I was honestly very surprised when we had our applicant review the other day and our faculty shared that one of the applicants had a similar situation. Pretty much his letters revealed he was at least applying to another specialty and likely using ours as a safety. Didn't think it was going to be a huge deal since 20% of my class SOAPed into this program after failing to match to other specialties but faculty said it "left a bad taste in their mouth" and he will probably not be ranked. Double standard much?

 

[Chicago2012]

I suggest you run around and panic in the streets.