School Psychology PhD/PsyD thread

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School Psych is in kind of a gray area between Counseling and Clinical PhD programs and "other" Psychology PhD programs, as it does involve a clinical/direct practice component and in some states, PhD/PsyD applicants may be licensed as full psychologists; however, in some states, school psych has a different scope of practice and some program requirements and foci are generally different requirements in some regards.

So, are there any current School Psych PhD program grad students, psychologists, or prospective grad students out there?

Any thoughts on the field? Thoughts on the value (or not) of cross-over licensure?

Good links:

APA-accredited school psych programs: http://www.apa.org/ed/accreditation/schoolpsy.html

APA-accredited combined programs: http://www.apa.org/ed/accreditation/proscipsy.html

NASP-approved programs (PDF): http://www.nasponline.org/certification/ApprovedPrograms0603.pdf

Licensure requirements by state: http://www.nasponline.org/certification/state_info_list.aspx
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I have very similar interests to yours--child multicultural and assessment and clinical psychology. I have interviewed for a few programs and not sure where to go next. I applied to both PhD school psychology programs and PsyD programs that have either child clinical or school psychology tracks. After the interviews, I feel very torn. The PsyD programs offer almost no research other than a dissertation, and I feel like I'd be missing out on that aspect. Although, these programs give the opportunity for APA accreditation and therefore easier psychology licensure. While, on the other hand, the PhD programs would prepare me well for a career in academia, assessment, and working in school. I am interested in working in a school for a few years to learn the ropes, but eventually would like to have my own practice where I can do assessment and therapy with children. So...I'm already in the application phase and still feel kind of stuck! I guess I'll wait and see if I get any offers for admission and then go from there...! Let me know if you get any more good info.
 
Hey, nice to meet you! I'm confused about what you mean when you say APA accreditation? Are you talking about internship, because from your previous posts it looks like you are applying to APA accredited school psych programs. In most states, PhD-level school psychologists do work outside of school system in hospital and clinics, though you'd have to check with your state licensing requirements...

If you don't mind me asking, where did you apply?

On another topic:

Does anyone know school psychologists are eligible for the IHS loan repayment program? Thanks!
 
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Hi!
I meant APA accredited programs. While most of the PhD in School Psy are APA accredited, some of them are just NASP (National Association of School Psychologists) accredited.
And from what I've seen, most PhDs in School Psychology do work outside of the schools, but the PhD School Psych programs I interviewed with--even the APA accredited ones--emphasize School Psych licensure, but not psychology licensure. So while you can go out of your way to get an APA internship and become a licensed psychologist, the programs really concentrate on your school psych requirements. Does that make sense?
I applied to: George Washington University, PsyD; LaSalle University, PsyD; Widener University, PsyD (has a school psych track); Temple University, School Psych PhD; Fordham University, School Psych PhD; Teachers College, School Psych PhD; and University of Delaware, School Psych PhD (not APA accredited).
Hope this helps, I know it's kind of confusing...
 
Thanks! I'm looking at Temple's and Fordham's School PhD for next year-did you by chance interview at either?

From my understanding, most states (there are a few exceptions--Georgia, Florida, and a couple others) don't actually require an APA-accredited internship for licensure, just an "equivalent." Most of the programs I've looked at recommend that applicants who want to work outside the school system do a 600 hour school/900 hour "other" (clinical, hospital, etc.) internship, which fulfills both School Psychologist licensing requirements and, I believe, Licensed Psychologist licensing requirements. As always, check with your state/school.

IMO, NASP and APA should merge PhD and PsyD level accredition for School Psych--it gets too muddled when one program is approved by one body but not by the other....
 
I'm also applying to School psych Ph.d and Psy.d programs. My understanding was that an APA accredited internship is not required for psychology licensure. Most programs indicate a percentage of students who obtained licensure which is usually distinguished from certification in school psych. Does anyone know if I am mistaken?? Do you need an APA accredited internship to qualify for licensure as a psychologist? If so, how can one be obtained in a school psych program? All school internships are non APA approved.
 
An APA accredited internship is only required for PSYCHOLOGIST licensure in a few states (Georgia, Florida, and maybe a few others); no states require a APA accredited internship for SCHOOL PSYCHOLOGIST licensure in and of itself; in all states but a few (check the link of above), people with school psychology degrees who have graduated from APA accredited programs, completed an APA-accredited or "equivalent" pre-doctoral internship, done the required number of supervised post-doc hours, and passed the EPPP can apply for licensure.
 
Hi,

I did interview at Fordham and Temple, but haven't heard back from them yet.

An APA internship is not required for licensure, but can make it a lot easier.

What do you guys know about having a private practice and doing assessment and therapy as a school psychologist outside the schools?
 
daniterese said:
What do you guys know about having a private practice and doing assessment and therapy as a school psychologist outside the schools?
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I'm in a school psych PhD program (it's a combined program, but my concentration is in school psychology). My research adviser has her PhD in school psychology and maintains a private practice on Fridays. She does therapy with children and families on lots of issues, like eating disorders, PTSD, anxiety issues, abuse. I don't know if she does any assessment, but I imagine she would. I plan to have a private practice on the side when I graduate.
 
I spoke to one of the School Psychology faculty at my university (I'm an undergraduate). Some things that you all might be interested in:

-She didn't think it was too difficult for School Psych PhD's to do clinical or consulting work outside of schools. She said that it wasn't so much a matter of *having* the clinical skill set (which a School Psych PhD will give you) but being able to convince clinical/counseling PhD's that one does.

-She said both APA and NASP accreditation/approval are important, and she would be extremely wary of any program that lacks one or both and cannot outline what they are doing to achieve it.

-Important things in applicants: research experience (she's on my BA thesis committee and said that my thesis was an excellent example of research experience to have), well-formed research interests, and experience of some kind working with children, as applicants need to prove that they enjoy (or at least can tolerate) working with this population. Of course, there's a ton of program-to-program variation here, so YMMV.

-School Psych does involve a good deal of working within beauacracy but that it can be done. This can also help one slowly get out of " only testing" role if that what's he/she wants.

-School Psych gives you exposure to a huge population of people, not just those who are actively seeking tx.

-Generally, more emphasis on disability/special education and educational issues than psychopathology, though there are school psychologists that study and focus on that, and school psych PhD programs will give students good training in childhood and adolescent psychopathology.

Hope that helps!
 
I have been accepted to Fordham (Ph.D), Rutgers (Psy.D) and Yeshiva (Combined school-clinical Psy.D) so far. Does anyone have any insight regarding the reputation of these programs. Any guidance would be much appreciated...thx
 
Thank you! I'm leaning towards Rutgers and know its clinical program has a wonderful reputation. I just wish i had some info. regarding which program is most highly regarded. I'm guaranteed an assistantship at Fordham and Rutgers will send me official notice re funding the week of the 23rd. You're right about Yeshiva -- they cannot provide anything at all.
 
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I'm very excited to attend a school psych program next fall! Many undergrads are unaware of this discipline, which is a shame. To any reading this thread, I would suggest only applying to school psych if that is your true passion. Many current students have told me that it can be a turn off to see applicants who, in addition to school psych, have applied to various clinical, developmental, or other types of programs. That being said, if you have a particular research interest that spans a few disciplines, like futureapppsy2, then go for it. Just know that basically all of my 7 interviews asked me, "Why School Psych and not Clinical/Counseling/Developmental???"

I think you really have to figure out if a PsyD or a PhD will be most beneficial for your career goals, as there is a difference between these programs. Personally, I'm not a fan of PsyD programs because I want a strong research background. Regardless of whether I decide to go into academia/research, I want my future practice to be informed by data. If you are interested in a PhD, find the faculty you want to work with, and then start narrowing your choices. Definitely pick programs that are both NASP and APA approved. Research the quality of the practica - make sure your program properly trains you as a practitioner! Lastly, really look into the curriculum and find out if it sufficiently prepares you for various work experiences. Is it eclectic or more designed around a particular perspective (ie behavioral ,cognitive, etc)? Find out what populations you'd be exposed to in fieldwork experiences. If you're looking for a multicultural component, schools near or in cities are often better places to focus your search. I think that since there is no ranking system for these programs, take a look at: faculty publications, involvement with APA Division 16 and NASP, NASP convention posters/workshops, student dissertations, internships, etc.

Futureapppsy2:
-There is an incredible amount of flexibility with school psych. We can work in schools, hospitals, clinics, private practice....anywhere!
-Our society needs school psychologists! It is a lucrative career and in high demand. If you have any interest in becoming a professor, you are in luck; many faculty members will be retiring in the next decade.
-You do not need an APA accredited internship to qualify for licensure as a psychologist. Doctoral school psychologists must go through two channels for credentials if they want the freedom to work in school and non-school settings. I know that in Maryland, for instance, you have to apply for licensure through the Department of Education to be a "school psychologist" and the Board of Psychology to be a "psychologist."
-Fordham offers barely any funding. Assistantships will only cover the tuition of one class, if I recall. There are definitely no stipends. One of the professors has experience with students with physical disabilities and focuses on neuropsychological research.
-Temple has only recently become more research focused. One professor does great research on inclusive educational settings for autistic students. Funding at Temple is a little tricky. Most funding comes from outside sources, like the Institute on Disabilities. Sometimes funding even comes from UPenn. It seems like total tuition waiver + stipend is not guaranteed, but possible in very few cases.
-Northeastern and UConn have professors who focus on health issues, such as asthma and obesity.

Good luck to all current and future students!
 
Thanks for the excellent post! :) My application list will be very heavily slanted towards, if not entirely, school psych programs. Looking at schools now, my doctoral apps may shake down to about 20 School Psych programs and around 4-5 Counseling/Clinical programs (may change depending on who is accepting applicants next cycle).

I've actually been ask to defend my interest in School Psych by faculty at my school, so I usually explain that most of the people who research disability are in school psych and furthermore that much of people's perception, accommodation or lack thereof, and attitude regarding people with disabilities is formed within the school system and that studying disability within a multicultural scope places my focus more heavily on earlier onset disabilities. Obviously, I'll have to polish that before PS/interview time, but I've put thought into it. :)


That's a shame about Fordham's funding... Dr. Finn seems like an excellent match for me.

If you don't mind me asking, what are your research interests?
 
One thing that's on my mind to say about school psych is that you have to be interested in doing assessment. If you have little interest in assessment, do not go into school psychology. Just a note. I was thinking about this because at my school, they just did interviews for the PhD program and they want to make sure that people truly know what they're getting into with school psychology. If they're not interested in doing assessment, they'll be very unhappy individuals because it's an assessment-heavy program.
 
^
True. Actually, that's one of things that intrigues me about school psych.

Along those lines, am I in an unfixable position if I don't have a "Tests and Measurement" course (my UG doesn't offer one)? I will have experience giving neuropsych assessments to study participants, though...

Thanks!
 
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I received a letter stating I'm an alternate candidate for the school psych psyd program.. it contained this statement: "There is a good probability that alternate candidates will receive an offer of admission as the admissions process proceeds. I encourage you to indicate your desire to be included on our alternate candidate list."

I do think this was a general letter and not to me specifically...anyone think this is actually a possibility? I know candidates have until the 15th of april to state their decision.. I had emailed the secretary asking her when they had to make decisions by as well as the order of the alternate candidate list...She did not answer the latter portion of my question which makes me worried...
 
SchoolPsych2198 said:
Thank you! I'm leaning towards Rutgers and know its clinical program has a wonderful reputation. I just wish i had some info. regarding which program is most highly regarded. I'm guaranteed an assistantship at Fordham and Rutgers will send me official notice re funding the week of the 23rd. You're right about Yeshiva -- they cannot provide anything at all.
Click to expand...


Just some info if you're curious..I was at rutgers interview day for school psych psyd.. from what i could tell from speaking with current students, it seemed like most people received some sort of funding but only for their first year..after that, only one person i spoke to was able to get additional funding and that was through a grant.
 
futureapppsy2 said:
^
True. Actually, that's one of things that intrigues me about school psych.

Along those lines, am I in an unfixable position if I don't have a "Tests and Measurement" course (my UG doesn't offer one)? I will have experience giving neuropsych assessments to study participants, though...

Thanks!
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You are definitely fine. I didn't take any test and measurement classes either as an undergrad, but I did have assessment experience administering the PPVT and PALS with preschool children. The fact that you have assessment experience is good.
 
I will be attending Kent State's School Psychology Doctoral Program this fall and was curious as to what programs everyone else has chosen. Talk about School Psych programs is limited on this blog...but I would love to see if any of you will be apart of my cohort!!!
 
^
Congrats! Kent State is one of my top choices right now! What is your background (straight from undergrad, already a specialist level school psychologist, etc)? It seems like they tend to favor transitioning applicants, but I've had really positive communication with my POI there, so...:xf:
 
Is anyone familiar with Berkeley's school psyc program? It's APA accredited, but it's not NASP accredited. It's my understanding that you want to go to a program that is both APA and NASP accredited. Any info about the program would be much appreciated! Thanks!
 
I'm actually really curious about this too. I've been mainly looking into clinical programs, but I came across Berkeley's program and am becoming more and more interested... I had some questions in particular:

Is it possible to get both the education licensure AND the professional psychologist one? that way you can work in the schools and maybe do private practice part-time? would you need both in california?
And how difficult is it to obtain an APA internship and get licensed as a psychologist going through this program?

thanks!
 
I am deciding between a school/clinical program and a straight clinical program. I would like the option of working in a school but am not sure it is what I want to do forever. I'd like to possibly work with adults too. Think the combined program will put me at a disadvantage if I decide to pursue clinical positions?
 
smilie2131 said:
Is anyone familiar with Berkeley's school psyc program? It's APA accredited, but it's not NASP accredited. It's my understanding that you want to go to a program that is both APA and NASP accredited. Any info about the program would be much appreciated! Thanks!
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I don't know much about Berkeley, but I don't think it's necessary to have the program be both APA and NASP accredited (though nice). My program is just APA-accredited. The reason they didn't seek NASP accreditation is because NASP requires you to be in a school setting for a certain number of hours during your internship year. My program didn't want to force students to do that if they wanted a more clinical setting for internship and didn't necessarily want to be in the school setting during internship.
 
I am currently in an APA- and NASP-approved program, and from my understanding the NASP requires you to be in a school setting for 600 hours as part of your internship. However, I have been told by my program, that NASP tends to be flexible in that you could provide school consultative services or work with pediatric populations if you perue a clinical or hospital-based internship and still count those experiences in your hours. We have a few interns in this position, and our faculty expect that they won't have any difficulty with getting the NASP credential.

As for Berkeley, I had looked into that program when applying to school psych programs, but it appears that many if not all of the students do not apply to APPIC or APA-accredited internship sites, but they are required to do a 2-year half-time internship, which I did not want to do. It's certainly different from other school psych programs, but has a reputable faculty.
 
Hi all,

Hopefully, this won't be an issue for me, but what would be good back-up plans if one is not offered admission to any School Psych PhD/PsyD programs?

Can EdS degrees be used as transitional degrees to a PhD (I'm asking because I've seen many programs which award non-terminal EdS degrees in route to PhDs)? Are these programs any less competitive than PhD programs anyway? Would they provide sufficient research opportunities?

Or, alternately, would it be better to try and secure an RA position and/or a child/family-based clinical position?

Thanks!
 
I honestly don't think there any programs which award non-terminal Ed.S degrees en route to a Ph.D. However, many will award non-terminal Master's degrees en route to Ph.D. School psych programs which award both Ed.S and Ph.D degrees tend to have different timelines, since for an Ed.S degree you have to complete 1200 hours in a school setting, while PhD you have to do 1800-2000 hours.

Ed.S programs tend to focus less on research than Ph.D but will provide some opportunities depending on the program. They may require you to do a thesis while others may require solely a portfolio. However, I know some who have completed Ed.S. and would then enroll in a Ph.D. program immediately after in order to increase their future job prospects. In regards to competitiveness, I would say EdS programs are about evenly to slightly less competitive (but not big difference), but Ph.D. programs tend to fund their students more.

Any type of research activitiy with families or children will make you an attractive candidate for many school psych programs, but you can definitely enroll in an EdS program and still be just as competitive.

Hope this helps
 
A thread on School Psychology on SDN. Great job getting this discussion going. I've been checking through these forums on and off throughout my own studies towards my PsyD in School Psychology. Typically SDN has only had a few remarks here and there about our field, so it is refreshing to open a thread with so many interested parties.

For those of you who are applying to doctoral programs, I feel most of you are correct in mentioning the heavy assessment component. On the doctoral level, depending on where you go, this component may or may not be prominent in your studies depending on if you are transitioning from your MA and/or EdS to the PsyD or PhD or going straight into a doctoral program. If you are doing the latter, prepare to test a lot. I had both an MA and an EdS when I started my PsyD program and most of my assessment was done in my first graduate programs.

If you are sitting on the fence between PsyD or PhD programs, the biggest difference is research. PsyD programs do have less emphasis on this component, but this is not to say you can't pursue research with your professors. To this date, in the two years I've been a doctoral student, I've published 3 articles, helped write a book chapter, and presented a study for the national conference (NASP).

APA vs. non-APA and NASP program accreditation. This area is tricky, but at the doctoral level, you'll notice that the area is a little less black and white and more accepting to licensure boards if they see the amount of work you have produced as well as internship and supervision hours completed towards your own licensure in PSYCHOLOGY. As far as licensure for SCHOOL PSYCHOLOGY, this is dependent on the state, but typically with a doctorate, you can achieve licensure when you finish.

Good luck to you all!
 
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I was reading on one site that PsyD grads get paid considerable less than PhD grads doing the same work. (when I find the site, I'll post it)
Do you find this to be the case?
 
I'd like to see the data when you retrieve it. One thing that comes to mind that would support that notion is that the Psy.D. degree is less than 40 years old. Psychologists with Ph.D.s have been around a lot longer than those with Psy.D.s. However, the data should be more even now that some Psy.D.s are closer to retirement.

schoolpsych1 said:
I was reading on one site that PsyD grads get paid considerable less than PhD grads doing the same work. (when I find the site, I'll post it)
Do you find this to be the case?
Click to expand...
 
I think part of this confusion may come from the fact that some people misclassify PsyDs with EdDs/EdS's (I know I saw at least one website that did this, though I can't remember the link), who may get paid less. I, too, would like to see the original dat source, if you have it, please!
 
I haven't seen this issue of misclassification yet, but I do think that if the data is difficult to recover, it's probably not broadly accepted. I know plenty of Psy.D.s who are doing very well in private practice as well as academia.

futureapppsy2 said:
I think part of this confusion may come from the fact that some people misclassify PsyDs with EdDs/EdS's (I know I saw at least one website that did this, though I can't remember the link), who may get paid less. I, too, would like to see the original dat source, if you have it, please!
Click to expand...
 
I'll try to "google" and find that link again, it was a professors graph I think of overall graduates and jobs in the US. It was late and I was tired, but it was only time I saw such a discrepancy in salary. I will post if I find it again.

Does anyone know of any programs that partially fund PsyD? I've been writing students (some colleges have links to present students) and although PhD students have had some trouble with funding after the first year, most were getting by. PsyD students seemed, (unlike me) taking the debt in stride because they went to a very cheap or largely on scholarship undergrad. So for them, the 30,000 wasn't overwhelming. One told me she was funded the first year, but then had trouble later. Sometimes she said a student leaves the program,not because of failing in classes, but they just wont take on the extra loans.
If I was in accounting like my cousin, I wouldn't be as worried, she is already making more than most Psychologists, but you really have to keep future salaries in mind, and being conservative, I look at the lower end.
 
schoolpsych1 said:
I'll try to "google" and find that link again, it was a professors graph I think of overall graduates and jobs in the US. It was late and I was tired, but it was only time I saw such a discrepancy in salary. I will post if I find it again.

Does anyone know of any programs that partially fund PsyD? I've been writing students (some colleges have links to present students) and although PhD students have had some trouble with funding after the first year, most were getting by. PsyD students seemed, (unlike me) taking the debt in stride because they went to a very cheap or largely on scholarship undergrad. So for them, the 30,000 wasn't overwhelming. One told me she was funded the first year, but then had trouble later. Sometimes she said a student leaves the program,not because of failing in classes, but they just wont take on the extra loans.
If I was in accounting like my cousin, I wouldn't be as worried, she is already making more than most Psychologists, but you really have to keep future salaries in mind, and being conservative, I look at the lower end.
Click to expand...

St. John's PsyD and Alfred PsyD both offer partial funding, and Alfred offers some full funding.
 
Thanks, I was looking at St. John's site last night, I'll check out Alfred also.
 
Hi All,

I'm seeking advice about which school psychology program to attend, I'm having a very difficult time deciding! I have narrowed down my offers to UW-Madison and Syracuse. Both programs will fund me and allow me to pursue research in my area of interest.

Any thoughts on these programs' reputation? I need to make a decision soon and I am desperate for advice.

Thank You!
 
I've heard nothing but good things about UW-Madison's program, anecdotally (I believe their school psych program was ranked number 1 in one program ranking)--it's an excellent research match for me, and I'll likely apply next year. Syracuse doesn't have a research match for me, so I haven't looked at it closely, but I've seen good research come out of the department. Congrats on having such excellent choices! :)
 
futureapppsy2 said:
I think part of this confusion may come from the fact that some people misclassify PsyDs with EdDs/EdS's (I know I saw at least one website that did this, though I can't remember the link), who may get paid less. I, too, would like to see the original dat source, if you have it, please!
Click to expand...
A more general problem are the plethora of jobs out there that accept a range of degrees.....but don't have a real pay difference. Often times HR people put them out and do not understand the difference.
 
I was never able to find that graph again, maybe it was outdated, there is a lot of stuff on the web that is.
I have found graphs that show PsyD DEBT is much higher, but one college site had one bright spot....they said although debt is higher, the academia postions that a lot of PhD's obtain, pay much less than a job that a PsyD might get.
The APA also lists starting salaries by region, etc. so you can get an idea of how long it might take you to put a dent in your loans.
 
Haha, a worthy opponent :D Thank you for the well wishes though too :) We'll see what this week brings!!

What are your interests, and where are you right now?
 
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