Second year slump?

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Attending1985

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Hi Everyone - I'm currently finishing up my second year of residency and am finding myself unhappy. I liked first year so I don't get it. I feel like I've progressively become more unhappy this year and find myself seriously feeling like I picked the wrong specialty. Did anyone one else feel like this? I can't figure out if I'm burned out or if I truly made a mistake. I've thought about switching to pediatrics or IM but it makes no sense as I have will have completed three years by the time a switch would even be possible. I've also thought about doing a sleep fellowship but I heard the job market is crappy. Did anyone else have similar experiences? How did it turn out for you?

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What was different about first year than second-year? More inpatient, more emergency, more consults? Are you at a different site with the different attending?
 
What about second year are you not liking? Just curious, because I know for many programs second year can be busier than first, and you could just be burned out. Everybody needs a break.
 
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Less inpatient, more consults, more emergency and different attendings. I think the attending things stands out as a factor that contributes to my misery. I worked with really cool people last year. This year not so much.

Overall, I can't pinpoint what I'm not liking. I do feel really tired. I feel like I'm not helping people as much as I thought I would. Sick of never having a right answer and everything always being so vague.
 
I think second year is the hardest year of training--whether it's a traditional hospital-intensive program, or an outpatient-heavy second year. There's a ton of learning going on, progressing independence...it's kind of the adolescent stage of your psychiatric development.
 
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2nd year is rough for a lot of specialties because it's also where some of the idealism of medicine starts to wear off. You've started seeing readmissions, you've started to realize that a lot of people won't get better, and if they do it will be at a glacial pace. You have also been seeing the sickest of the sick for almost two years straight. Next year, in outpatient you'll get to see some people who are actually doing pretty well. Schizophrenics with jobs and even families. Bipolar patients who haven't been noncompliant in years and actually seek out help before they decompensate. People with MDD who actually respond to treatments. Borderline patients who are reducing the chaos and the self-harm. It will help.

Also attendings make a big difference. They also change periodically and are not dsomething you have to deal with permanently.
 
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Less inpatient, more consults, more emergency and different attendings. I think the attending things stands out as a factor that contributes to my misery. I worked with really cool people last year. This year not so much.

Overall, I can't pinpoint what I'm not liking. I do feel really tired. I feel like I'm not helping people as much as I thought I would. Sick of never having a right answer and everything always being so vague.

I was extremely dissatisfied during my 2nd year. I distinctly remember getting frustrated by the lack of variability. I remember saying "this is way too much Psychiatry for me". 3rd year was slightly better but getting slammed with non-stop intakes was overwhelming. 4th year was the ultimate year of satisfaction because I was able to cherry pick my interests.
 
Fonzie -

I'm assuming you're at attending now. Are you enjoying your work? Did you consider switching specialities during residency? Thanks for replying. It's nice to know that I'm not alone.
 
Fonzie -

I'm assuming you're at attending now. Are you enjoying your work? Did you consider switching specialities during residency? Thanks for replying. It's nice to know that I'm not alone.

I was actually thinking of switching to EM. I coped by starting new hobbies and moonlighting on the side. As I learned more about Psychiatry in 3rd and 4th year I was able to find something that I really enjoyed. I am very happy with where I am in my career and glad to have stuck it out to the end.
 
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Well that give me hope I can still end up happy in this speciality. Thanks, Fonzie.
 
I hear ya bud. I hated first year (mainly inpatient) but getting into the ER more/Consults etc and actually being the "gate keeper" for a change....versus sitting on an inpatient unit while everyone twiddles their thumbs at the malingerer and gossips in morning report (yet, is afraid to do anything, like, *gasp*, discharge the pt)....or admitting the borderline, to watch some attending put them on lithium to "decrease suicidality" because "it could be on the bipolar spectrum (and previously the schizophrenia spectrum, next...?) or....drum roll....Depakote!....instead of having an actual conversation with the person, or, god forbid, confronting them and treating them like an adult......

*breathe*

Second year is coming to a close. For anyone who gets in the way, all you gotta do is tell yourself one thing, "F*** 'em"
 
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I did one year of psychiatry and felt rather unhappy because I did not feel like people were getting much better nor that there was much personal satisfaction from te work. During the year I found myself being more enthusiastic when off service and happier overall when I was off service. People told me it was burn out but I didn't feel tired in fact I found my psychiatric work to be very easy and people thought it was of high caliber...putting it together for me it was right to leave the specialty. I took a leap into EM not knowing if it would be perfect for me or not and thankfully it has become my passion. I could tell in the first month that it was right for me.

At least for me I knew deep down things weren't right when I was a psychiatrist and I knew immediately they were when I was in EM.

Good luck finding your way...you'll know what's right for you I think.
 
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I was actually thinking of switching to EM. I coped by starting new hobbies and moonlighting on the side. As I learned more about Psychiatry in 3rd and 4th year I was able to find something that I really enjoyed. I am very happy with where I am in my career and glad to have stuck it out to the end.
I switched from FP (talk about vague symptoms that you'd feel stupid doing the million $ work up, but you are worried sick because it could be just something that might be SOMETHING.) FP is the hardest damn specialty you can ever imagine.

Second year call was Q4. OMG! it was painful, but at least it was psych and it was something I knew how to handle.

4th year is hands down the nicest. I am working 4 days a week and 6-7 hours per day. The occasional call is still a major disruptor to my peace and routine, but it is almost over. Looking forward to fellowship. Doing a very plum psychopharmocology fellowship with world renowned psychopharmologists at a state hosp facility.

This is the happiest I have ever been in my life. However, in my second year, I was irritable, short, anger. One night, I hit my baby in the thigh (slapped his thigh 2x hard) when he woke me. It was like I saw my hand slap his thigh before I even knew what was happening (but, another part of me knew exactly what was happening and just didn't care to stop myself). Right after that, I knew it was time to restart psychotherapy. I have been in psychotherapy most of my 4th year med school; and have been faithfully going consistently. For a while after I slapped the baby, I went twice a week--for about a year.

Going through my personal therapy has made me a much better psychotherapist myself. (I am one of the few psychiatrist who does actual psychotherapy.) In pgy-3, I had six patients in my psychotherapy panel. I plan provide psychotherapy to my patients through out my career.

cheers.
 
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Getting there. Its winter and I'm in a different site/residential treatment site where there are therapists and I am basically this pill dispenser. 15 minutes, that's it. Therapists can apparently interrupt me and take over my intakes. Meetings all day. Scales given, testing done not only for assessment but to give something to insurance companies. Then in between that I have hospital clinic and county clinic to go to. The severe time constraints are really testing my patience and is making this rotation extremely unsatisfying.
 
At our program second year was the year most people burned out or became toxic. I'm not really sure why that was the case. We weren't working more hours. First year medicine rotations were 80-90h/wk. Second year consults and inpatient psych were more like 70h/wk. But consults were pretty painful. So was psych call.
 
My worst year was my fourth year. It was because I was a chief resident and some of the attendings were blowing off their work, including teaching, but also dangerously leaving 1st years unsupervised over some tough cases so the residents complained to me, so I brought it up to the PD and she got ticked off with me for bringing it up. One of the attendings never even saw any of the patients or gave supervision. He just showed up, signed off on the resident's note, left and it turned out (later proven) that he was double-dipping. That is he was working somewhere else while he was supposed to be at the hospital, keeping it secret so he could earn two full time salaries. The PD even accused me of lying about it without even looking into the situation herself. There were bad outcomes as a result of this lack of supervision.

So for about 6 months of that year, here she was calling me a liar in front of the department, and by about 2 months before the year ended she found out everything I said was true cause bad outcomes were happening and when the hospital looked into it, the data irrefutably pointed to me as telling the truth (e.g. the GME would call the attending in question and he never answered, called the unit and he wasn't there, etc.)

By about 2 months of the PD's abuse, I told the GME what was going on and to my relief they even told me they knew the PD had issues. By about 4 months into the situation, they told me they believed me cause they did their own investigation into what was going on and were even upset and disgusted that the PD just carte blance decided not to look into the situation. By about 6 months the PD did finally fess up and she did notice that pretty much everything I said was true, but never apologized and even made statements that some of the concerns I brought up she never knew about as if I never brought them up in the first place (yeah right, she's calling me a liar to the head of the department because I brought them up).

So I left my program pretty much disgusted. My original PD that I had for the first three years was phenomenal and the new one had big shoes to fill. It would've been unfair to have expected her to have done as well as the original guy cause that's how darned good he was, kind of like trying to live up to Capt. Kirk when he left the Enterprise, but heck, lying, falsely accusing a chief resident without even looking into the situation, etc. those crossed the line.

I also didn't drop the bomb on the above because there were still some good docs at the program I highly respected and such a declaration could make the entire department look bad, but from a SDN/resident's perspective there probably is no more important attending for that person to factor in than the PD.

I was on the forum back at that time but in my attempt to avoid reaction formation I did mention there were problems and they were being fixed (they were, by then it was out in the open so it had to be fixed) and in a more neutral tone than my program deserved, but in hindsight anyone acting in that manner is likely not going to fix their own personal issues that led to those bad decisions overnight.

It was a bummer too cause it tarnished my entire view of the program that was overall good until that year. Other bad things happened such as doing a forensic rotation with a psychiatrist close with the department that was pretty much a hired gun and I caught him embellishing on the stand to defend a guy that was very much obviously malingering and testing even showed he was to a degree of confidence over 95%.

Just for clarification the program was not St. Louis U. where I'm currently at or U of Cincinnati where I did fellowship. If anything those events sharpened my desire to work with good people and consider that a factor more important than the salary. Right now I work side-by-side with three highly respected doctors in the field of name-brand recognition and they are very good people, not just professionally, but just very humble and respectable.
 
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@whopper thats a hell of a story can't imagine the heavy load of stress you been through
 
I think the thing that got me through it was 1-I knew they weren't going to kick me out and 2-I already got into the #1 fellowship I wanted in. So the rest was just me tolerating the BS in terms of my own safety. I was disgusted to say the least that the patients were being given sub-standard care. Another thing was I knew if they did a real move against me I had enough physical evidence and witnesses to support everything that happened so if I was kicked out they'd have a heck of a lawsuit on their hands and I think they knew my savvy enough to execute one. 3-The head of the psych department at one of the hospitals I was at that was attached to the program knew full well what was going on and she told me I had her full support.

The story is actually worse, but I spared a lot of the details. E.g. the first years that were screwed basically were too scared to say anything when they found out their own chief was being raked over the coals, so when I went to the GME I wasn't getting full support from those first years I was trying to protect in the first place. Some of these first years were saying things to me like "I never should've picked this program."

Another reason why I waited to divulge these details on this forum is that there were and still are doctors at that program I respected (such as the head of the department mentioned above) and I was still open to seeing if I could work with them. The odds now are pretty much zip (hey you never know, psych's a small world), not because I don't want to work with them or vice-versa but because I'm in a different state with some top people and good prospects in the here and now. I think enough time has passed for me to say what happened without anger.

My own speculation is that the new PD was possibly overwhelmed with her job and couldn't deal with the stress of it so when faced with the news that some of the attendings were blowing off their work, she couldn't handle it and reacted in a type of ego-defensive way of projecting the blame on the messenger.

And as I mentioned pretty much all of the accusations I stated were later proven. E.g. the department found out for a fact that the attending was working two jobs at the same time, having duty hours in more than one place at a time. They actually had verification from the other institution this was going on. I actually would've been alright with the PD if she just fessed up, but she instead tried to rewrite history and make it out as if I never brought up these problems in the first place, which just made the GME people think she was an even bigger nutcase cause they remembered everything going on.

My last month in the program, the GME called me up and told me they wanted my input on other issues with that PD and the department but I told them that I'm a "just stick to the facts" type of the person and my opinion of that PD was so poisoned that I didn't think I could give an objective opinion, none of these other issues were ones where I was involved, and that I could only say it's obvious she has some very deep-rooted issues and we'd have to leave it at that.
 
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Getting there. Its winter and I'm in a different site/residential treatment site where there are therapists and I am basically this pill dispenser. 15 minutes, that's it. Therapists can apparently interrupt me and take over my intakes. Meetings all day. Scales given, testing done not only for assessment but to give something to insurance companies. Then in between that I have hospital clinic and county clinic to go to. The severe time constraints are really testing my patience and is making this rotation extremely unsatisfying.

Unfortunately a lot of what you describe(med checks for the psychiatrists, therapists providing therapy before or after the med check, lots of meetings and lots of paperwork) are a lot of what most modern day psychiatry is about. Most people who don't like that have two choices:

1) practice a different way and make less money
2) change careers
 
Inpatient jobs are relatively abundant as a lot of us don’t want them. Make sure they don’t make you inpatient director within a month of graduation. Make sure your director supports your hire. You will probably have choices so some reasonable expectations on your end is appropriate.
 
My program had a weekly T-group, and I remember that around Jan-Feb of R2 year we were all talking about how burned out we felt. There was definitely a morale nadir around that point. Mostly it had to do with call burden and tough inpatient rotations. Things got a lot better going into R3, which was basically all outpatient in our program. In my experience, the real magic and sense that you are doing something truly impactful for people happens on the outpatient side. Hang in there.
 
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