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Are any EM residencies training EM residents to do invasive neurotrauma procedures such as ventricular drains, burrholes, and ICP monitoring?
Seaglass said:The question is why would you want to?
roja said:EM's are not neurosurgeons.
roja said:crack a chest with now CT surgeon available?
Sure your patient has a penetrating chest wound and lost vitals in your ed, but your in the boonies and don't have a surgeon. Yup, your patient is getting worse.
Do you still crack the chest?
No, its contra-indicated.
waterski232002 said:Contra-indictated???
Why would you NOT crack the chest? The patient is already dead (no vitals), so he/she can't get any worse.
waterski232002 said:I would hope that if I was shot in the chest in rural america that I would be given every opportunity to be treated (CT surgeon or not).... Furthermore, I think you need to use your judgement on a case-by-case basis... Guidelines are just that--"guidelines". We are not robots, we are human and have minds of our own! Let's not forget to use them to deviate from the norm when necessary and appropriate.
USUHS said:J Am Coll Surg. 2000 Mar;190(3):288-98.
Survival after emergency department thoracotomy: review of published data from the past 25 years.
Rhee PM, Acosta J, Bridgeman A, Wang D, Jordan M, Rich N.
Department of Surgery, Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences, Bethesda, MD 20814, USA.
BACKGROUND: Emergency department thoracotomy (EDT) has become standard therapy for patients who acutely arrest after injury. Patient selection is vitally important to achieve optimal outcomes without wasting valuable resources. The aim of this study was to determine the main factors that most influence survival after EDT. STUDY DESIGN: Twenty-four studies that included 4,620 cases from institutions that reported EDT for both blunt and penetrating trauma during the past 25 years were reviewed. The primary outcomes analyzed were in-hospital survival rates. RESULTS: EDT had an overall survival rate of 7.4%. Normal neurologic outcomes were noted in 92.4% of surviving patients. Factors reported as influencing outcomes were the mechanism of injury (MOI), location of major injury (LOMI), and signs of life (SOL). Survival rates for MOI were 8.8% for penetrating injuries and 1.4% for blunt injuries. When penetrating injuries were further separated, the survival rates were 16.8% for stab wounds and 4.3% for gunshot wounds. For the LOMI, survival rates were 10.7% for thoracic injuries, 4.5% for abdominal injuries, and 0.7% for multiple injuries. If the LOMI was the heart, the survival rate was the highest at 19.4%. The third factor influencing outcomes was SOL. If SOL were present on arrival at the hospital, survival rate was 11.5% in contrast to 2.6% if none were present. SOL present during transport resulted in a survival rate of 8.9%. Absence of SOL in the field yielded a survival rate of 1.2%. There was no clear single independent preoperative factor that could uniformly predict death. CONCLUSIONS: The best survival results are seen in patients who undergo EDT for thoracic stab injuries and who arrive with SOL in the emergency department. All three factors-MOI, LOMI, and SOL-should be taken into account when deciding whether to perform EDT. Uniform reporting guidelines are needed to further elucidate the role of EDT taking into account the combination of MOI, LOMI, and SOL.
Publication Types:
* Multicenter Study
PMID: 10703853 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
Baylor said:J Trauma. 1994 Jan;36(1):131-4.
Successful roadside resuscitative thoracotomy: case report and literature review.
Wall MJ Jr, Pepe PE, Mattox KL.
Cora and Webb Mading Department of Surgery, Baylor College of Medicine, Houston, TX 77030.
Patients with injuries severe enough to require cardiopulmonary resuscitation (CPR) have a dismal prognosis. Time to surgical intervention is a major determinant of outcome in moribund trauma patients who have a potential for survival. With the exception of endotracheal intubation during evacuation to surgical intervention, no other usual prehospital procedures have been validated to affect outcome in such cases of extremis. This is a report of a case in which resuscitative surgical techniques were extended successfully to the prehospital environment. The patient was a 30-year-old man in extremis after a stab wound to the left chest. Estimating a transport time of 15 minutes, a physician riding with the emergency medical service (EMS) crews elected to perform a resuscitative thoracotomy. Following digital aortic compression, the patient regained both blood pressure and consciousness by the time of arrival at the trauma center. A left lower lobectomy was then performed in the operating room. The patient recovered fully and was discharged home in 21 days, neurologically intact. Four years later, the patient was alive, healthy, and working. This report demonstrates the feasibility of prehospital thoracotomy and raises provocative issues regarding future intense surgical involvement in prehospital care.
Publication Types:
* Case Reports
* Review
* Review of Reported Cases
PMID: 8295241 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
Gundersen Clinic said:Am Surg. 1994 Jun;60(6):401-4.
Gunshot wounds: 10-year experience of a rural, referral trauma center.
Dodge GG, Cogbill TH, Miller GJ, Landercasper J, Strutt PJ.
Department of Surgery, Gundersen Clinic, Ltd., La Crosse, Wisconsin 54601.
The 10-year experience of a Level II trauma center with 122 gunshot wounds referred from a large rural area was analyzed to illustrate differences from the experience of urban centers. Most frequent causes of injury were attempted suicide in 38 (31%) patients, hunting mishaps in 32 (26%), unintentional accidents in 29 (24%), and intentional assault in 18 (15%). Of weapons specified, rifles were documented in 48 (39%) instances, shotguns in 25 (21%), and handguns in 24 (20%). Body regions injured were the trunk in 47 (39%) patients, head in 35 (29%), lower extremity in 31 (25%), and upper extremity in 29 (24%). Twenty-five patients (20%) died as a result of their injuries. The cause of death was brain injury in 18 (72%), exsanguination from truncal wounds in 5 (20%), myocardial infarction in 1 (4%), and multiple organ failure in 1 (4%). We conclude that the distributions of cause and type of gunshot wounds are unique in a rural setting. These differences have profound consequences in designing effective prevention programs for our area and support the design of more efficient trauma systems for rural North America.
PMID: 8198327 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
waterski232002 said:Additionally, we can not use overall mortality post-procedure as the only guage to determine the utility of using that procedure. If we did this, then nobody would use CPR (overall mortality of an in-hospital code is >90%... and <5% of resuscitated patients who have coded actually make it to hospital discharge). This has a much worse outcome than the above cited EDT; however, we still do it. Would anyone suggest we not do CPR? I am not... but I would agree there are instances where we can just call the code and not proceed. Again, it's all about thinking outside the box and making decisions based on the individual case.
waterski232002 said:Additionally, we can not use overall mortality post-procedure as the only guage to determine the utility of using that procedure. If we did this, then nobody would use CPR (overall mortality of an in-hospital code is >90%... and <5% of resuscitated patients who have coded actually make it to hospital discharge). This has a much worse outcome than the above cited EDT; however, we still do it. Would anyone suggest we not do CPR? I am not... but I would agree there are instances where we can just call the code and not proceed. Again, it's all about thinking outside the box and making decisions based on the individual case.
Just because a CT surgeon is needed to "clean up our mess" does not mean that we should not do a life-saving procedure. If I was worried about waking up my consultants and having them mad at me for burdening them with my short-comings, I sure as hell would not go into EM!You don't have to find a surgeon to clean up your mess after you perform CPR.
waterski232002 said:If I was worried about waking up my consultants and having them mad at me for burdening them with my short-comings, I sure as hell would not go into EM!
waterski232002 said:Just because a CT surgeon is needed to "clean up our mess" does not mean that we should not do a life-saving procedure. If I was worried about waking up my consultants and having them mad at me for burdening them with my short-comings, I sure as hell would not go into EM!
waterski232002 said:If I was worried about waking up my consultants and having them mad at me for burdening them with my short-comings, I sure as hell would not go into EM!