Seriously Considering Caribbean...input much appreciated

[Prettywoman0172]

I met with my premedical advisor today who told me point blank that I have literally no chance at all at getting into a US school. We discussed the possibility of an SMP program, but I am not sure I will get into one of them and even if I did, she said I would need a 3.7-3.8 or I wouldn’t even get an interview – and that is a huge gamble and a lot of money. So I am at the point of seriously considering Caribbean schools. The positives would be that I could enter in the fall with no gap year. No worrying about whether or not I should do any graduate work (and racking up additional debt), no worrying about an MCAT retake, no worrying about the application process. I have done some research on the Caribbean schools and I know the risks. My stats are below. I am looking for honest input.


I am a nontraditional student, caucasian, early 40s. Divorced, single parent (have my mom's support, kids will stay in the US with her). I am a first generation college student and I was applying as disadvantaged. I have one semester left to complete undergraduate degree with a double major in biology and psychology. I have no preference for allopathic or osteopathic. I am committed to primary care: family medicine and OB/GYN. Standard course load has been 15-20 credits per semester. I have strong letters of recommendation and what I consider a very strong personal statement (I am a professional writer). I am taking the MCAT 1/10 but I have not been studying (I tend to self sabotage). I plan to “cram” for three weeks (I know, I know). I have been scoring 25-30 on practice exams. I was going to apply last summer but I postponed the MCAT thinking I would have more time to study. It didn’t happen.


AMCAS unverified: Overall GPA: 3.240, Sceince GPA: 3.165

AACOMAS unverified: Cumulative GPA: 3.45, Science GPA: 3.28

Non-Science GPA: 3.52 Coursework spans 25 years and includes over 400 credits.


Extra Curricular Activities, Work and Volunteer Experience (spans 25 years of service): The hours are accurate.


· Trained as a traditional midwife and naturopathic provider by trading graphic design skills and public relations services in exchange for tuition. Certifications as a lactation consultant, childbirth educator and labor support doula. ~10000 hours


· Volunteered at a local women’s clinic as a sexual health counselor and clinic escort. Shadowed physicians and nurse practitioners. ~700 hours


· Volunteered at free clinic run by the medical students of a local medical school. Provided women’s health services and sexual health counseling. Shadowed medical students, residents and attending physicians. Designed and taught a workshop at the medical school about abortion care and counseling. Invited back to teach a for a second year. ~250+ hours


· EMT-B licensed. Volunteered EMT volunteering services in support of charity sports events such as sponsored running or bicycle races, mud runs, and triathlons. ~150 hours


· Volunteered services as a personal trainer (American College of Sports Medicine) and wellness coach for low-income women and teens. I created personalized nutrition and exercise plans, completed fitness assessments, and provided one-on-one training in the gym. ~1000 hours


· Volunteered in the Emergency Department at large hospital. Shadowed emergency department physicians. ~100 hours


· Volunteered at local WIC offices and community action programs teaching breastfeeding, childbirth education, infant care and family planning classes. Became certified as a lactation consultant and established a free lactation consulting service for low-income women with services offered at two major hospitals, by home visit, and by 24 hour "warm line.” Designed and wrote my own teaching curriculum. My breastfeeding curriculum was adopted by WIC offices statewide. ~2500 hours



· Worked at a local OB/GYN office teaching breastfeeding, childbirth education, infant care and family planning classes. Provided labor support doula services to low-income and at-risk women and teens. Shadowed OB/GYN physicians and a reproductive endocrinologist. ~2000 hours



· Worked as a nursing assistant. ~2500 hours


· Research lab with a focus on human reproductive biology and sexual behavior. Recipient of small fellowship award; honors thesis. One year/two semsesters/ongoing


· Established Positive Psychology Club at university. Have two awards for club service.



· Long distance backpacker. I have hiked more than half of the Appalachian Trail and volunteer periodically as a ridgerunner on the Appalachian Trail. The responsibilities of a ridgerunner include talking to hikers about minimum impact backpacking, answering questions, maintaining the trail, checking shelters and reporting on water supplies and occasionally administering first aid or participating in searches for lost hikers.



· Worked in the music business as a photographer, journalist and personal assistant for more than ten years. Have extensive photography and writing portfolios.



· Lived on a small hobby farm in rural Maine raising dairy goats, rabbits, geese, ducks, and chickens and growing vegetables and berries. I volunteered with the local 4H program as a youth leader, and established and ran a popular Cloverbuds club. I have experience breeding and raising all types of small pets, exotic animals, birds, and reptiles, I am a master gardener, and I am well versed in wildlife rehabilitation.



· Worked at a high-end toy store in the historical department. Responsibilities included talking to customers about the history of the company, answering any customer questions, giving tours of the historical department and helping to maintain the visual displays. Lifelong toy collector.

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[Mad Jack]

Dude, go DO. You'll be fine with those stats at a DO school so long as you get a 26+ MCAT and apply broadly. Don't ever, ever go Carib unless you've put in two or three cycles, because that impatience will cost you dearly in the long run when you likely don't match and end up with 300-400k in debt you can't repay or have forgiven.

Given your time in Maine, UNECOM would likely heavily favor you if you wanted to come back to the state.

 

[theseeker4]

I met with my premedical advisor today who told me point blank that I have literally no chance at all at getting into a US school. We discussed the possibility of an SMP program, but I am not sure I will get into one of them and even if I did, she said I would need a 3.7-3.8 or I wouldn’t even get an interview – and that is a huge gamble and a lot of money. So I am at the point of seriously considering Caribbean schools. The positives would be that I could enter in the fall with no gap year. No worrying about whether or not I should do any graduate work (and racking up additional debt), no worrying about an MCAT retake, no worrying about the application process. I have done some research on the Caribbean schools and I know the risks. My stats are below. I am looking for honest input.


I am a nontraditional student, caucasian, early 40s. Divorced, single parent (have my mom's support, kids will stay in the US with her). I am a first generation college student and I was applying as disadvantaged. I have one semester left to complete undergraduate degree with a double major in biology and psychology. I have no preference for allopathic or osteopathic. I am committed to primary care: family medicine and OB/GYN. Standard course load has been 15-20 credits per semester. I have strong letters of recommendation and what I consider a very strong personal statement (I am a professional writer). I am taking the MCAT 1/10 but I have not been studying (I tend to self sabotage). I plan to “cram” for three weeks (I know, I know). I have been scoring 25-30 on practice exams. I was going to apply last summer but I postponed the MCAT thinking I would have more time to study. It didn’t happen.


AMCAS unverified: Overall GPA: 3.240, Sceince GPA: 3.165

AACOMAS unverified: Cumulative GPA: 3.45, Science GPA: 3.28

Non-Science GPA: 3.52 Coursework spans 25 years and includes over 400 credits.


Extra Curricular Activities, Work and Volunteer Experience (spans 25 years of service): The hours are accurate.


· Trained as a traditional midwife and naturopathic provider by trading graphic design skills and public relations services in exchange for tuition. Certifications as a lactation consultant, childbirth educator and labor support doula. ~10000 hours


· Volunteered at a local women’s clinic as a sexual health counselor and clinic escort. Shadowed physicians and nurse practitioners. ~700 hours


· Volunteered at free clinic run by the medical students of a local medical school. Provided women’s health services and sexual health counseling. Shadowed medical students, residents and attending physicians. Designed and taught a workshop at the medical school about abortion care and counseling. Invited back to teach a for a second year. ~250+ hours


· EMT-B licensed. Volunteered EMT volunteering services in support of charity sports events such as sponsored running or bicycle races, mud runs, and triathlons. ~150 hours


· Volunteered services as a personal trainer (American College of Sports Medicine) and wellness coach for low-income women and teens. I created personalized nutrition and exercise plans, completed fitness assessments, and provided one-on-one training in the gym. ~1000 hours


· Volunteered in the Emergency Department at large hospital. Shadowed emergency department physicians. ~100 hours


· Volunteered at local WIC offices and community action programs teaching breastfeeding, childbirth education, infant care and family planning classes. Became certified as a lactation consultant and established a free lactation consulting service for low-income women with services offered at two major hospitals, by home visit, and by 24 hour "warm line.” Designed and wrote my own teaching curriculum. My breastfeeding curriculum was adopted by WIC offices statewide. ~2500 hours



· Worked at a local OB/GYN office teaching breastfeeding, childbirth education, infant care and family planning classes. Provided labor support doula services to low-income and at-risk women and teens. Shadowed OB/GYN physicians and a reproductive endocrinologist. ~2000 hours



· Worked as a nursing assistant. ~2500 hours


· Research lab with a focus on human reproductive biology and sexual behavior. Recipient of small fellowship award; honors thesis. One year/two semsesters/ongoing


· Established Positive Psychology Club at university. Have two awards for club service.



· Long distance backpacker. I have hiked more than half of the Appalachian Trail and volunteer periodically as a ridgerunner on the Appalachian Trail. The responsibilities of a ridgerunner include talking to hikers about minimum impact backpacking, answering questions, maintaining the trail, checking shelters and reporting on water supplies and occasionally administering first aid or participating in searches for lost hikers.



· Worked in the music business as a photographer, journalist and personal assistant for more than ten years. Have extensive photography and writing portfolios.



· Lived on a small hobby farm in rural Maine raising dairy goats, rabbits, geese, ducks, and chickens and growing vegetables and berries. I volunteered with the local 4H program as a youth leader, and established and ran a popular Cloverbuds club. I have experience breeding and raising all types of small pets, exotic animals, birds, and reptiles, I am a master gardener, and I am well versed in wildlife rehabilitation.



· Worked at a high-end toy store in the historical department. Responsibilities included talking to customers about the history of the company, answering any customer questions, giving tours of the historical department and helping to maintain the visual displays. Lifelong toy collector.

Definitely go DO, NOT Caribbean. This isn't even a question, considering your application. Just do well on the MCAT.

 

[darkeon]

your premed advisor.... sigh
without a doubt, you have a chance. no doubt

 

[Mad Jack]

Also, don't ever trust premed advisors. They generally suck.

 

[mspeedwagon]

I wish this weren't the case, but so true!

OP, you sound like you have been drinking the Caribbean Kool Aid. I would only suggest Caribbean after at least one (but ideally two or three) failed cycle of attempting to get in to US MD or DO schools. Any time advantage you gain by starting soon will be lost on the other end by struggling to match.

Also, don't ever trust premed advisors. They generally suck.

 

[jsmith522]

My advisors said the same thing, and now I am going this fall to RVU with similar stats. After I got in I sent them letters thanking them so much for the hard work they put in working with me.

 

[Mad Jack]

I tried using my school's premed committee and advisors once. They wanted me to fill out all this paperwork, to set up an interview with them, and to jump through a bunch of extra hoops that were very difficult as a nontrad so I just said screw it, I'm not bothering. Didn't use a committee, didn't use an advisor, got piles of invites from schools left and right.

 

[operaman]

Yeah, don't do Caribbean unless you've actually tried the rest for a few cycles. DO is possible with solid MCAT, and you may even find some US MD schools willing to consider you if you apply early enough and work the phones a little. Your biggest asset as a non-trad is your maturity and experience working professionally, so don't hesitate to use it whenever you can.

 

[QofQuimica]

OP, I hope you didn't pay for that advice, because it's not just awful, it's totally wrong. If you did hire this person, you should fire her, yesterday (and you wouldn't be out of line to demand your money back). Even if it was free advice, you need a new advisor who knows how to advise you properly, because this lady doesn't know what she's talking about. That's about the nicest thing I can say about her and her advice.

Now, on to giving you some advice that is actually good.

First, you have no business even thinking of applying to the Caribbean considering you haven't even done a single stateside app cycle yet. That word is hereby out of your vocabulary in any context pertaining to medical schools, and you should never mention it again unless it's coupled with the word "cruise."

Second, what state are you currently a resident of? If you're in the South or Midwest, an app to your state MD schools along with DO schools is not unreasonable. If you're from the coasts (esp. Cali or New England), it's likely higher yield for you to focus on applying DO only.

Third, you don't need to do an SMP. You should, of course, keep making straight As (or as close to it as possible) in your last semester of college.

Finally, you need to stop BSing yourself about the MCAT, because I don't buy it, and you don't really either. Your AACOMAS GPA is fine, your ECs are fine, and the missing link is a decent MCAT score. You're not identifying a real obstacle here when you say that you "self-sabotage"; you're just making up excuses for yourself in advance in case you don't succeed at achieving your dream. But you're a middle-aged single mother from a disadvantaged background; you don't have the luxury to fantasize about going to med school "some day" any more. At your age, you need to either s*** or get off the pot, because some day is *today*. So if med school is what you want, then stop "self-sabotaging," schedule the time to study properly for the MCAT, and make this thing happen. It ain't like studying for the MCAT is harder than being a single mother.

Best of luck to you.

 

[Prettywoman0172]

Thank you everyone for your advice and encouragement. I hear you about someday being today which is one of the reasons I thought about taking that other route :-/ I have three weeks to study for the MCAT. Thats it. I am planning to put in some serious time, but Im not sure it will be enough. I am in New England - Massachusetts.

Thank you all, again.

 

[jakeislove]

Apply US.

Considering how much things are changing, Caribbean is far too risky.

 

[Goro]

1000% concur. And find a new advisor; yours is a *****.

You are a massively competitive candidate for DO schools.

Under no circumstances should you take the MCAT unless you are fully ready for it. I do not think 3 weeks is adequate prep time. Do not take unless your diagnostics are in the high 20s, either.

Dude, go DO. You'll be fine with those stats at a DO school so long as you get a 26+ MCAT and apply broadly. Don't ever, ever go Carib unless you've put in two or three cycles, because that impatience will cost you dearly in the long run when you likely don't match and end up with 300-400k in debt you can't repay or have forgiven.

Given your time in Maine, UNECOM would likely heavily favor you if you wanted to come back to the state.

 

[CajunMedic]

Goro and QofQuimica speak the truth! Sounds like your pre-med "advisor" either has no clue or doesn't know anything about non-traditional students. DO is the way for you to go. Sounds like you may even be competitive for your in-state MD schools. Big key right now is going to be the MCAT.

Stay away from the Carib schools, we have 2 in my OMS-1 class that came from them and said it was one of the worst things they did.

Good luck!

 

[Law2Doc]

I agree with most of the responses here. I would also throw in that a person prone to self sabotage, cramming and fear of studying for a standardized test is exactly the wrong person to go offshore because in those schools you are much more under the gun ( they fail out a good chunk of every class, hold back others) and your future (or more correctly having any future in medicine) is very dependent on doing extremely well on multiple standardized tests.

I would only recommend going offshore for people who screwed up majorly in college/life such that no US school would ever touch them even after multiple cycles and attempts to rehabilitate, but who know in their hearts that if given another chance they can and will work tirelessly and ace every test and wow every preceptor (just for a sliver of a chance to practice medicine in a noncompetitive specialty in a less geographically desirable part of the country.) You aren't there yet.

 

[Jacobyellz]

As a current carib student, I think I can give you some pretty good advice on this topic. My best advice however would be 100% honest with yourself.

Let me explain this through my actual class situation. I started with 35 students in my class. ( We have 5 semesters on the island in our basic science program). After 1 semester, 19 students either failed or dropped out. They couldn't hack it because either they weren't smart enough, didn't study enough.... fill in the blank. Who knows?

That leaves 16 of us remaining. Of the 16, 3 students scored 250+ on Step 1. 2 of them were from Canada and only came here because it is even more difficult to get into med school in Canada than it is in the US. The other student really messed up in college because he partied 24/7, however he is probably one of the smartest people I have ever met.

Out of the 13 remaining, half of us made it through in time, and the other half had to repeat classes or failed out and transferred to another University. Out of the latter, they did not make due to a number of reasons, poor test taking skills, issues with the school, difficulty learning information on your own. However, those students still will be able to match into family or psychiatry once they graduate (provided they pass Step 1 with a somewhat decent score).

I was personally in the top half of those 13. I messed up to the point of no return in college and had no choice. I got my act together here and made it through. Now if I can score (230-240), Im guaranteed a match in something and have a decent shot and a moderately competitive residency. Some classes were a struggle, some came more easily. Keep in mind, just because it a Carib school does not mean classes will be any easier. (atleast not with my school). In fact, you are going to have to teach information to yourself and going to have to deal with a very CONDENSED schedule. FWIW, they prepare us very well for Shelves.

You have to be honest with yourself and see where you fit in. If you fit in with my group, Id say consider the Carib even though it is a struggle. You are in your 40s, and SMP takes 2 years, you may waste another year or 2 with applying to SMPS and med schools. You can probably start at a carib school within a few months. It all up to you though.

 

[QofQuimica]

Thanks for that post, Jacob. Sobering to see your anecdotal experience. Best wishes to you in the match....unfortunately, there are no guarantees there for anyone, but I hope you beat the odds.

 

[mspeedwagon]

@Jacobyellz Are you at one the Big 4? I'm curious what school only has 35 students in a class. Even the smallest, SABA I believe, has a bigger class. You can PM me if you'd like.

 

[FoundAWay]

Non traditional recent grad from a carribbean school, matched into EM.

Carib route is risky for the OP. Many of my class matched, but many did not. The education is there, but most of the responsibility is on you. If you are prone to cramming, procrastination, and "self sabotage" it is a set up for failure.

 

[Beargryllz]

If you get even a bad/mediocre MCAT score you can probably still apply to DO schools and get in somewhere. If you're getting 25-30 on practice exams, you will almost definitely get something in that range on the real exam, which is fine for DO programs.

At least consider this before you start looking at Caribbean programs

 

[Law2Doc]

....unfortunately, there are no guarantees there for anyone, but I hope you beat the odds.

Yeah, I would leave out the phraseology that if you break 230 you are "guaranteed" anything. There are offshore grads with numbers in that ballpark that definitely struggle. Hopefully you (Jacob) won't, but let's not try spinning the Caribbean as anything other than it is -- a long shot for those without better options. Not a guaranteed path to anything until you actually make it.

 

[TeddyBoomBoom]

Do not be afraid of DO. Any discrimination you might face as a DO will be far out shadowed by what you would face coming from the Carib.

Also, with the aacomas grade replacement, I'd bet retaking a few science course would greatly change your science GPA at a fraction of the cost/effort/risk of an SMP.

 

[Prettywoman0172]

Do not be afraid of DO. Any discrimination you might face as a DO will be far out shadowed by what you would face coming from the Carib.

Also, with the aacomas grade replacement, I'd bet retaking a few science course would greatly change your science GPA at a fraction of the cost/effort/risk of an SMP.

The problem with that is that most of my sciences are Bs, B+ I had a D+ in ochem 1 which i retook for a B+ and I had a D in calculus 1 which I retook for an A. I had a C in gen chem 2, and a C+ in a physics lab (which I still believe was unfair). I really dont want to gamble retaking Bs or even that one C. I just finished Ochem 2 and I think I might have pulled an actual, unscaled B!!! Ive had As in all biology classes so far, including upper levels.

 

[Prettywoman0172]

And in regards to procrastination and "self sabotage": I am definitely not a procrastinator and I tend to manage time well. That said, I excel under pressure (which is why cramming for the MCAT just might work!). I have been "studying" for the MCAT for two years - just not very consistently. I am not sure why I didnt make it a priority though, knowing how important it is...the only reason i can come up with is "self sabotage" as in - "Well, Im probably not going to get in anywhere anyway so who cares." :::sigh:::

 

[kthxbai]

And in regards to procrastination and "self sabotage": I am definitely not a procrastinator and I tend to manage time well. That said, I excel under pressure (which is why cramming for the MCAT just might work!). I have been "studying" for the MCAT for two years - just not very consistently. I am not sure why I didnt make it a priority though, knowing how important it is...the only reason i can come up with is "self sabotage" as in - "Well, Im probably not going to get in anywhere anyway so who cares." :::sigh:::

The MCAT isn't a test of knowledge, per se, so cramming most definitely won't work. Do it right once and don't look back.

 

[ridethecliche]

The problem with that is that most of my sciences are Bs, B+ I had a D+ in ochem 1 which i retook for a B+ and I had a D in calculus 1 which I retook for an A. I had a C in gen chem 2, and a C+ in a physics lab (which I still believe was unfair). I really dont want to gamble retaking Bs or even that one C. I just finished Ochem 2 and I think I might have pulled an actual, unscaled B!!! Ive had As in all biology classes so far, including upper levels.

DO schools do grade replacement. Those retakes help a lot more for DO than MD.

Apply DO.

 

[Prncssbuttercup]

OMS3
Had a 3.2c/s and a 3.85 in my PB... 26 MCAT...

Whoever told you that is so incredibly wrong....

 

[Sophinez]

As a current carib student, I think I can give you some pretty good advice on this topic. My best advice however would be 100% honest with yourself.

Let me explain this through my actual class situation. I started with 35 students in my class. ( We have 5 semesters on the island in our basic science program). After 1 semester, 19 students either failed or dropped out. They couldn't hack it because either they weren't smart enough, didn't study enough.... fill in the blank. Who knows?

That leaves 16 of us remaining. Of the 16, 3 students scored 250+ on Step 1. 2 of them were from Canada and only came here because Tis even more difficult to get into med school in Canada than Tis in the US. The other student really messed up in college because he partied 24/7, however he is probably one of the smartest people I have ever met.

Out of the 13 remaining, half of us made it through in time, and the other half had to repeat classes or failed out and transferred to another University. Out of the latter, they did not make due to a number of reasons, poor test taking skills, issues with the school, difficulty learning information on your own. However, those students still will be able to match into family or psychiatry once they graduate (provided they pass Step 1 with a somewhat decent score).

I was personally in the top half of those 13. I messed up to the point of no return in college and had no choice. I got my act together here and made it through. Now if I can score (230-240), Im guaranteed a match in something and have a decent shot and a moderately competitive residency. Some classes were a struggle, some came more easily. Keep in mind, just because it a Carib school does not mean classes will be any easier. (atleast not with my school). In fact, you are going to have to teach information to yourself and going to have to deal with a very CONDENSED schedule. FWIW, they prepare us very well for Shelves.

You have to be honest with yourself and see where you fit in. If you fit in with my group, Id say consider the Carib even though Tis a struggle. You are in your 40s, and SMP takes 2 years, you may waste another year or 2 with applying to SMPS and med schools. You can probably start at a carib school within a few months. It all up to you though.

Thank you for this sincere and helpful discussion. Sounds like you might be at AUA?