Seriously, How Much Harder Can Med School Be?

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kopitar

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As I ask current and former medical students to compare the difficulty of med school to the workload of a bachelors in biology (within 4 years) the consensus is usually something drastic like 10 times harder, etc. Seriously, is it double the workload, maybe triple? I am starting medical school in a few months and am trying to mentally prepare myself for what is to come. Is it the pressure that is difficult, or just the vast material to be memorized and processed? What is a current week like in the life of an American Medical Student ?

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I went to an average public school and did the bare minimum to get a 3.9+ GPA. On average, my total study time was around 10 hours per week and it was all cramming.

I just finished first year and came very close to failing an entire integrated class block. The workload isn't harder to comprehend, it's just MORE. And you have to know what's relevant and what's not. You have to study efficiently, it's too bad some of us never figure out how.
 
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You learned all of biochem in 16 weeks in undergraduate possibly.

Now learn it all in 5 weeks and apply alot of that knowledge to disease processes.

Firehose analogy: "Med School is like drinking water from a firehose". Not difficulty of content, but shear VOLUME of content.

And if you crammed like every did in undergrad, you'll learn to start studying on weekdays rather than the weekend before.
 
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I took 21 credits a semester of upper level math and chemistry for at least two semesters. That was kindergarten in comparison to med school. Not in terms of difficult, but in terms of workload.

Every year someone wants to know about workload "because I want to be mentally prepared." You can't be. You can't. I thought 21 credits was preparation (you know when your easiest course is PChem you're having a tough semester). It wasn't. Not even close. How you thought you learned best, forget about it. Unless you have a photographic memory and no life. Learning the sheer volume required in the short amounts of time is a whole new ballgame and not one you can get prepared for until you're immersed in the particular level of educational fire-hose-fest known as medical school.

The best way to prepare is to do whatever you enjoy most. Do it every day, all day. Sleep late. Eat well. Learn how to cook. Learn how to shop savvy. Find shoes you can stand in for 10 hours a day alternating not moving for 4 hours and running your butt off up and down stairs and not hurt. Get a hobby to take your mind off med school. Enjoy your life now and come to med school refreshed and rested. THAT is the best mental preparation you can do.
 
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I agree with everyone else - the workload can't be compared to even the hardest semesters at undergrad.

I think what is really different is how unprepared I feel for exams. In undergrad, I had time to read every bit of material several times, make notes, etc. In med school, I pretty much listen to the lecture once, then go over the material for the exams once (maybe twice, if it is a slow week) before taking the exams. When you have 2-3 exams a day with about 100 pages of material on each (min), you have to learn a new way to study and retain information rather than simple repetition.

Of course, there are many of my classmates who pull all-nighters regularly in order to be able to look over the material and memorize everything. I imagine that gets tiring, though.

You get used to it, though. You will see once you get a bit into your first year - it is too difficult to explain the differences well, and I agree that there isn't anything you can do to prepare for what it will be like when you start.
 
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Good question. Let me start from the beginning. Undergrad was nothing compared to pharmacy school. I was studying probably ~3-4hrs a day and all day weekends for pharmacy school during exam weeks. I know the volume of material for med school will be much worse. So, I am trying to brace myself once again, this time for more. Hopefully, I will have a heads up on some of the material in med. school, esp pharm! :D NC, we will be classmates, if you ever need any help on the pharm. side I am always willing to help. See you in a few months.
 
I think the reason most of us (c/o 2014er's) are scared about this is because we just don't know what we're capable of when faced with this amount of material... and we won't know until August/September gets here...

Yeah that's how I feel. I have no problem studying but am unfamiliar with how I will handle the new schedule. I was near the top of my class in undergrad so I do not have much experience struggling and dealing with intense studying pressure. I would imagine feeling unprepared for every test in medical school is bad for confidence. I keep reading these other threads talking about how students are facing panels regarding expulsion, that would be HORRIFYING! Working so hard to get into med school to follow your dreams then have it come to a screeching halt.

What is the average number/percent of 1st year dropouts/failouts??

I would like to think those who do not succeed in medical school are those who do not have an inherent love for medicine and healing.
 
I think people are exaggerating just a bit in this thread. Med school is obviously difficult, but most people would probably be fine putting in about 5 hours day. I think people just like to inflate the difficulty/time spent.

You can still have a life outside of med school. It is not all-encompassing. The key is just to make sure to study consistently. No more cram sessions.
 
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"I was near the top of my class in undergrad so I do not have much experience struggling and dealing with intense studying pressure."


This is probably going to be one of the more difficult things peopl ehave to deal with. EVERYONE was near the top of their class in medical school, so many will suddenly find themselves right in the middle.
 
I hate it when people say medical school is "so hard". First of all, what did you think you were getting into? Second of all, you can make anything sound terrible.

You've got to realize that everything that comes out of a med student's mouth is a lie. You're not really covering "all" of biochem in 5 weeks, no matter what you say. The tests aren't impossible. You won't have to sacrifice your first born just to get through anatomy. And it's not at all like drinking water from a fire hydrant. That just sounds like torture, when in reality what you're really doing is chilling back and drinking a latte while you read some biochem. My god, how awful!

If you described your typical day to anyone who actually does real work for a living, they'd laugh in your face.

"Well, I get up at 7, work out, eat a nutritional breakfast, get some coffee, go to class if I feel like it or I might even stay home, read books and note packets all day, check my facebook, check on all the new celebrity gossip on TMZ's webpage, have dinner, watch some TV, and go to bed. It's REALLY hard!"

The biggest factor is stress, and it can make even the small things seem like Godzilla.

So remember, when anyone says anything about how hard something is, don't believe it. It's not true, and you're not them.
 
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The national average for student's not graduating medical school, this is for every reason not just failing out, is about 4%. I know for DO schools you can go to the AOA website and download a pdf that has the percentages of students that don't graduate and their reasons from each DO school. So don't freak out so much. If you didn't have what it takes the admissions committee would not have accepted you, you will be OK. I am also starting this fall and I am sure that some of my study methods will work and others won't work in med school when they worked in undergrad. If you want some good advice about study tactics my DO school sent us this link.

http://www.ttuhsc.edu/SOM/success/

I found some study techniques that I didn't use in undergrad that I am going to try out in med school. Eventually most of us will figure out how to most effectively study in med school and achieve the success we want. For now enjoy being accepted into medical school and have fun. Pretty soon we won't have that excited feeling of fulfilling our dream of going to med school, we will have stress and a ton of material to learn. Until you start, ENJOY the exciting aspect of beginning medical school.
 
Med school must be divided between preclinical and clinical years ... and they are seperate beasts.

Pre-clinical years - concept-wse, nothing is hard - just the volume of the material and the speed which is given to you. Basically take everything you learn in one semester of intro biochemistry and cram it into 9-12 weeks. Add histology, pharmacology, genetics, and microbiology on top of that (in the same 9-12 week time period). Imagine having 100s of pages of outlines of summaries of what you need to know (basically highlighers are useless at this point since you end up highlighting your entire notes). Btw, don't forget to study for your OMM exams while this is going on. Oh - don't forget to prepare for that standardize patient/early clinical exposure stuff that every med school now claim they offer to preclinical med students.

You've heard of drinking water out of a fire hydrant. I think a better analogy (which came from the Pre-Allo forums) is pancakes.
Medical School is like eating 5 pancakes every day. Not a big deal so long as you eat them every day. But, what if you don't want to eat pancakes one day? Well then you have to eat 10 pancakes the next day or 6 pancakes for five days. Pretty soon you end up with 40 pancakes to eat and only a day to do it in.


Clinical years - you are thrown into a new environment every few weeks. You have to adjust to new teams, new residents, new attendings. For some schools, this means new hospital/computer system/charting system. For some schools, it could also mean different part of the country. You need to re-establish yourself for every rotation. In addition, you're trying to remember everything that was taught to you in the first 2 years of med school, try to organize it, and find the relevant clinical stuff, to be able to correctly answer the clinical questions your resident/attending is asking you AT THIS MOMENT. On some rotations, you will be waking up at 3-4AM every morning, and returning to bed at 9-10PM, with 30-hr calls thrown in between (if you're lucky enough, the hospital will have beds for med students, if not, then find a couch or empty patient room). Try remembering the anatomical borders for the Epiploic foramen of Winslow, or which nerves innervate the flexor digitorum profundus (and name the correct arterial supply) ... all while in a sterile OR gown, with bright lights literally beaming down on you, and being awake for 28 hrs (cuz you're postcall in the OR) :smuggrin:

I jest ... clinical years is much much better than preclinical years. :p
 
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med school must be divided between preclinical and clinical years ... And they are seperate beasts.

You've heard of drinking water out of a fire hydrant. I think a better analogy (which came from the pre-allo forums) is pancakes.
Medical school is like eating 5 pancakes every day. Not a big deal so long as you eat them every day. But, what if you don't want to eat pancakes one day? Well then you have to eat 10 pancakes the next day or 6 pancakes for five days. Pretty soon you end up with 40 pancakes to eat and only a day to do it in.

amazing:hungover:
 
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What helps is doing things for the given week and trying to get everything read in that week so you dont fall behind during the 1st and 2nd year so that you dont fall behind. Med school is all about learning what you can during the time you are taught. Meaning if you sit in a lecture, try to learn and pay attention then so that when you are home, you can read something else. The faster you read, the more you will get done. Stay calm and cool along the way but disciplined.

see some articles on my SDN blog.
 
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k and drinking a latte while you read some biochem. My god, how awful!

If you described your typical day to anyone who actually does real work for a living, they'd laugh in your face.

.



Having done both, I'd have to disagree with you on many accounts.

Med School hasn't been that "hard"...it's just consuming. At least when I came home from work, I was done with that for the day...rather than having just enough time to eat, say hi to my wife, and then study for 4-6 hours.
 
I don't think the material in med school is harder than undergrad. When it came to biochem or cell bio crap, my undergrad stuff was way more in depth and that made it harder. The big difference is when I took biochem in undergrad, it was 16 weeks with 3 other classes mixed in. In med school, biochem was 6 weeks with physio, micro, OPP, H&P, and other stuff mixed in. When you have class, workshops, and labs that make your day last til 4 or 5 in class (we have mandatory attendance) it makes it very difficult to keep up with the material. If you stay on top of the material everyday and review on weekends, you won't fail. If you wait and have to cram for tests, you will end up barely passing or failing. You will learn quickly how to master the material and keep up with everything. Honestly I didn't think med school was that hard. There is just a lot of crap you have to get through in 2 years. It really helped me to go through the lectures the same day they were given because that allowed it to remain in my mind longer. The people who fail out are the ones who don't study enough to pass (this is variable for each person) or do well. Everyone will study different amounts and there will be people who study a couple hours a day and get B's. The common theme I have seen among my class is the people who do well are the ones who stay on top of the material each day and use their weekends to review. We do put in a lot of hours a day/week but it will pay off when it comes to boards. Just to put it in perspective, I was an average student in undergrad (3.2 GPA) with an average MCAT (27) and I am in the top 15-20% of my class. You can do it. Don't let it stress you out. Look up ways to study here on SDN. That was the single best thing I did last summer. You will have ideas and ways that may work for you.
 
Medical school is like Chinese water torture. At some point into your first year you'll want to scream "make it stop." Unfortunately, it doesn't stop.

I remember talking to my Mom on the phone like 3 weeks before the end of first year. She was blabbing something like "can you believe in 3 weeks you'll be done with your first year?" I told her that's just not what my brain was doing at that point. I had so much on my plate in those remaining 3 weeks, so many opportunities to negate my performance leading up to those 3 weeks, so many potential disaster scenarios running through my mind, that those 3 weeks might as well have been 3 months.

The truth is you can't understand the nature of the pressure until you're in the midst of it. Medical school emphatically rewards hard workers, and furiously punishes the intelligent but lazy. I'm of the latter camp, and I can tell you that it really is a nightmare personality combo to have given the nature of med school.

BUT, and I know I've been coming off really negatively on here about med school . . . I made it through first year, and it's definitely a brilliant career choice in many ways. It's just that going through the process of becoming a physician makes me cringe with the force of a thousand lemons.
 
To add perspective (and some hope to incoming 1st years), I graduated undergrad with a 2.7 gpa mostly due going clubbing 3-4 nights a week. I'm not kidding. Long story short, five years after undergrad, I managed to get into ONE med school the day before orientation started. (PCOM, I love you.).

Despite my dismall undergrad performance, I started med school with a vengence. "Lets do this" type of attitude. I discovered early on my learning style -- SKIP ALL CLASSES and study all day. I studied practically everyday but nothing stressful. Wake up after 8 hours of sleep (this is key), work out for an hour, shower and eat a huge breakfast. Then stroll into school around noon refreshed (while everyone else just sat through 4 hours of lecture), pick up the scribed notes and hit the cubicle. I'd study until midnight most days then call it quits. I always went back to VA/DC on Thursdays and spent the weekend with my ex-gf. I took my books with me and got in about 4 hours of stress-less studying on the weekends then partied at night. Sunday drove back to Philly. Rinse and repeat.

This method worked out beautifully for me. I was very well rested the first two years of med school. Graduated top 10% of my class and got into a competitive allopathic residency.

IMO, third year is the armpit of medical education. But you play the game and that, too, passes.

In short, yes, there's a lot of material in med school but your brain is capable of wonders. Skip class if you can, learn on your own and enjoy the free time you have.

Best of luck my friends!
 
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I'm personally finding it kind of funny that I've heard from multiple, high-ranked students at very reputable DO schools to completely skip class and just study. I personally didn't like doing this in undergrad and felt like I got a lot of information by attending and PAYING ATTENTION (going to lectures and not listening was the biggest drain of my time) to lectures. Unsure if I should switch it up. Should probably just try it out regular at first (attending classes) and go from there.
 
I'm personally finding it kind of funny that I've heard from multiple, high-ranked students at very reputable DO schools to completely skip class and just study. I personally didn't like doing this in undergrad and felt like I got a lot of information by attending and PAYING ATTENTION (going to lectures and not listening was the biggest drain of my time) to lectures. Unsure if I should switch it up. Should probably just try it out regular at first (attending classes) and go from there.

Definitely go to class at least until your first set of exams. That way you'll be able to realize for yourself how foolish going to class is.

Sort of kidding, but the challenge with medical school isn't understanding the material, it's getting in enough repetitions to make it stick. So going to class really hinders your ability to get those repetitions in.

But yeah, fear will make you go to lectures in the beginning. Eventually you'll get comfortable with what you need to do, and you'll start strategically shedding lectures. Come the end of first year, you my find yourself only attending mandatory lectures.

Second year is ahead of me, but I will only be attending things that are mandatory. Without question.
 
I hate it when people say medical school is "so hard". First of all, what did you think you were getting into? Second of all, you can make anything sound terrible.

You've got to realize that everything that comes out of a med student's mouth is a lie. You're not really covering "all" of biochem in 5 weeks, no matter what you say. The tests aren't impossible. You won't have to sacrifice your first born just to get through anatomy. And it's not at all like drinking water from a fire hydrant. That just sounds like torture, when in reality what you're really doing is chilling back and drinking a latte while you read some biochem. My god, how awful!

If you described your typical day to anyone who actually does real work for a living, they'd laugh in your face.

"Well, I get up at 7, work out, eat a nutritional breakfast, get some coffee, go to class if I feel like it or I might even stay home, read books and note packets all day, check my facebook, check on all the new celebrity gossip on TMZ's webpage, have dinner, watch some TV, and go to bed. It's REALLY hard!"

The biggest factor is stress, and it can make even the small things seem like Godzilla.

So remember, when anyone says anything about how hard something is, don't believe it. It's not true, and you're not them.

This is so true. I just finished MS I and while it required some work, it was not all that bad. And being a non-trad and having worked in various capacities before, I can say that the med school life style is pretty easy. You control your day-to-day schedule, and there are very few places that you absolutely have to be at (unlike a real job). I studied between 3-5 hours a day depending on the exam schedule. I read for pleasure, worked out 2+ hours per day, went out on dates with my wife, was actively involved in my church and watched all my favorite TV shows and managed to maintain a 87% average in all of my classes.

Now there were some in my class who lived in the library, and I mean they were there from 8am until the place shut down at midnight. My guess is that they are really looking to score some super competitive residency. But if that's what you have to do to be in that elite, stressed out, top 10% of the class, well they can have it. For me it is more important to enjoy life and enjoy being in medical school. And I really have enjoyed it.

So decide what is important to you, do your best, really "learn" the material and don't get caught up in the self imposed stress. Medical school is challenging but very doable and you can succeed without having to lose your soul in the process.
 
One of my interviewers thinks I am going to have more free time in medical school than I had in undergrad. Even if she isn't right, it was sure nice to hear. :)

Oh, I absolutely had more time first year and WAY more time 2nd year then I ever did in undergrad.*


*Disclaimer: In undergrad I had a full time job, a part time job, 16 hours of classes a term (double degree), was a TA, an adviser, an active member of a sorority, did a ton of volunteer work, and had an active social life on the side....So, yeah, med school...takes up a little less time and energy then...well, that.

Med school is manageable. Honest. The hardest part is figuring out what works for you. ESPEICALLY if you're someone who never had to study before.

I'm not going to say I condone skipping class to study....especially since my school has an attendance policy...but um...er...I'm just going to stop there.

One thing that REALLY pissed me off that my school did was at orientation someone came to talk to us and informed us that there was not enough time in the day to exist, something about "you need 25 hours in a day to be able to eat/sleep/study/go to class. so you figure out where those hours have to come from" It was not only unnecessary, but untrue.

I will say this: after your first year you'll be floored at what you know. It's pretty striking.

Now sure, right before an exam the words "OH MY GOD IF I JUST HAD 2 MORE DAYS" normally come (loudly) out of my mouth, but really? It's fine.

I have a life, I'm an average student, I travel whenever I can, I study...quite a bit, but probably not as WELL as some of my class mates (really, I have to do something multiple times before it sticks). I don't hate my life and I don't lament my work load. Well, this week I do, but it's board study and I'm studying for about 11 hours a day (WAY more then I did during school) so it's understandable.

To all you premeds in this thread, good luck. :luck:
 
This thread is a little scary. I studied a decent amount of time in undergrad, and it just blows my mind to think I'll be studying 5-10 times as much in medical school.

Did it take you guys a little while to adapt to studying 4-6 hours a day as opposed to 1-2 hours a day like most people do in undergrad (if they even study that much)?

I think the reason most of us (c/o 2014er's) are scared about this is because we just don't know what we're capable of when faced with this amount of material... and we won't know until August/September gets here...

Oh, it's a kick in the throat, don't let anyone kid you.

I did the Honors track in college. Never less than 15 hours a semester, max of 18, at least 6 of those Honors. At most I was studying 2-3 hours a day, and that was one of my more evil courses.

Med school? Try 6. Minimum. I'd go to lecture from 8-3, study until 10, and start again the next day. It's a massive adjustment. Hell, I'd spend longer in the anatomy lab in a given day than I'd spend studying in college, and that's before even getting home to study.
 
I'm personally finding it kind of funny that I've heard from multiple, high-ranked students at very reputable DO schools to completely skip class and just study. I personally didn't like doing this in undergrad and felt like I got a lot of information by attending and PAYING ATTENTION (going to lectures and not listening was the biggest drain of my time) to lectures. Unsure if I should switch it up. Should probably just try it out regular at first (attending classes) and go from there.
I'm in the same boat JP. Hopefully we both come to the same decision..
 
I found that medical school and the volume of information wasn't much of a challenge. The challenge really was trying to manage my time between academics and personal/social life.

I remember during anatomy, when we had lab from 9-12 almost every day and with material to study not only for anatomy lecture AND lab, but also for histo and embryo, I rarely had time to myself to do the things I wanted to do. Also, this was my first med school class so needless to say, my time management skills were very sub-par.

I just finished MS1 couple days ago and I can honestly say my time management skills are at superstar level now. This has helped and made my life 10x easier and interestingly, people around me sometimes wonder if I'm still in medical school. :laugh:

So don't miss the forest for the trees. Medical school is, by all means, very important but it is NOT THE ONLY priority in your life. Never forget that.
 
If it makes some incoming first years feel better, I don't "study" 5 hours a day. I attend every lecture (we have a mandatory attendance policy...and let's be honest, if I didn't go to school I would probably sleep all day). I count that as my first time going over material. During the week, I only study about 2 hours a night or so. I am much more of a weekend person - I am able to wake up early and study for 8-10 hours and then get all of the information really well.

So, if you add that up over the week, med. school takes up about 6 hours a day in classes/ labs + 2 hours of studying after class + 8-10 hours on the weekend = 56-60 hours a week of studying/ med school. Less time than I will spend working during 3rd/4th years on rotations and also less time than I will eventually work.

I tend to not study nearly as much as some of my classmates, though. Like I said before - you have to take time to adjust and figure out a study style that works for you. It took me about 6 weeks to figure it out, but once I did I was able to use my time very well and my grades improved a lot.
 
I would agree with most of the later posters in this thread. Med school isn't that bad (unless you want derm, ortho, etc). I find that I have more free time now than before because I don't work, do research, and don't usually attend class. I don not recommend my study habits, but I am a total crammer and have pulled all-nighters for each block exam thus far (as a 1st year). I am averaging an 82% around the 50th % for the class. My weeks consist of me listening to lectures on the couch once and maybe reading some BRS books (like between commercials).... then about 3 days before the test I study about 9hrs, 12 hrs, and then for about 24 hrs. Obviously I am making it okay, but I am not at the top of my class and have essentially kept the same study habits as undergrad (except I went to class then and never reviewed material until the night before).
So moral of the story is that you will find a way to pass, but try to be consistent so you can study for boards 2nd year without changing too much!

I take my final in a few days so we will see if my terrible study habits get me through without any failures:xf:
 
You've heard of drinking water out of a fire hydrant. I think a better analogy (which came from the Pre-Allo forums) is pancakes.
Medical School is like eating 5 pancakes every day. Not a big deal so long as you eat them every day. But, what if you don't want to eat pancakes one day? Well then you have to eat 10 pancakes the next day or 6 pancakes for five days. Pretty soon you end up with 40 pancakes to eat and only a day to do it in.

This is the best analogy I have ever heard.:thumbup:

My saving grace is that I seem to have an expandable stomach, so eating ~20 pancakes in one sitting is doable for me;)
 
Having done both, I'd have to disagree with you on many accounts.

Med School hasn't been that "hard"...it's just consuming. At least when I came home from work, I was done with that for the day...rather than having just enough time to eat, say hi to my wife, and then study for 4-6 hours.

I'm gonna have to agree with this. Even this summer I'm doing some 50-60 hr weeks on some research projects and to me this seems like a vacation because when I go home I get to completely turn off my brain. Hence I've been drinking quite often and enjoying all the sports that are in season:)
 
Medical school emphatically rewards hard workers, and furiously punishes the intelligent but lazy. I'm of the latter camp, and I can tell you that it really is a nightmare personality combo to have given the nature of med school.

Perfect description, sadly I too am in the latter camp and it does make it VERY difficult and stressful at other times. But at the same time I can't complain because I probably don't study half as much as some of my classmates, but then again my grades reflect that...

My goal for this year is to adopt the good study habits some of my friends have. Review the material covered THAT SAME DAY from 6-9 pm and then skim over the notes for the next day for 30 minutes, rinse and repeat. Then on weekends review what you learned that week.
 
I have heard the phrase rinse and repeat several times in this thread. I much prefer rinse, lather, and repeat. Its just something about lathering that makes me think the material will magically engrain into my head lol
 
I guess I should say lather, rinse, then repeat.
 
I would agree with most of the later posters in this thread. Med school isn't that bad (unless you want derm, ortho, etc). I find that I have more free time now than before because I don't work, do research, and don't usually attend class. I don not recommend my study habits, but I am a total crammer and have pulled all-nighters for each block exam thus far (as a 1st year). I am averaging an 82% around the 50th % for the class. My weeks consist of me listening to lectures on the couch once and maybe reading some BRS books (like between commercials).... then about 3 days before the test I study about 9hrs, 12 hrs, and then for about 24 hrs. Obviously I am making it okay, but I am not at the top of my class and have essentially kept the same study habits as undergrad (except I went to class then and never reviewed material until the night before).
So moral of the story is that you will find a way to pass, but try to be consistent so you can study for boards 2nd year without changing too much!

I take my final in a few days so we will see if my terrible study habits get me through without any failures:xf:

Do you think the pass/fail grading takes some of the edge off, or is there still a secret competition to be at the top of the class? I've always been the type to do exactly as much work as I needed to get an A. I think it'll be nice to not have to shoot for the top, and in that regard med school may be a bit less stressful than undergrad.
 
Oh, I absolutely had more time first year and WAY more time 2nd year then I ever did in undergrad.*


*Disclaimer: In undergrad I had a full time job, a part time job, 16 hours of classes a term (double degree), was a TA, an adviser, an active member of a sorority, did a ton of volunteer work, and had an active social life on the side....So, yeah, med school...takes up a little less time and energy then...well, that.

Med school is manageable. Honest. The hardest part is figuring out what works for you. ESPEICALLY if you're someone who never had to study before.

I'm not going to say I condone skipping class to study....especially since my school has an attendance policy...but um...er...I'm just going to stop there.

One thing that REALLY pissed me off that my school did was at orientation someone came to talk to us and informed us that there was not enough time in the day to exist, something about "you need 25 hours in a day to be able to eat/sleep/study/go to class. so you figure out where those hours have to come from" It was not only unnecessary, but untrue.

I will say this: after your first year you'll be floored at what you know. It's pretty striking.

Now sure, right before an exam the words "OH MY GOD IF I JUST HAD 2 MORE DAYS" normally come (loudly) out of my mouth, but really? It's fine.

I have a life, I'm an average student, I travel whenever I can, I study...quite a bit, but probably not as WELL as some of my class mates (really, I have to do something multiple times before it sticks). I don't hate my life and I don't lament my work load. Well, this week I do, but it's board study and I'm studying for about 11 hours a day (WAY more then I did during school) so it's understandable.

To all you premeds in this thread, good luck. :luck:

This is good to hear as your schedule somewhat mimiced my schedule in UG.
 
Do you think the pass/fail grading takes some of the edge off, or is there still a secret competition to be at the top of the class? I've always been the type to do exactly as much work as I needed to get an A. I think it'll be nice to not have to shoot for the top, and in that regard med school may be a bit less stressful than undergrad.

For me it helps a little knowing that I am not getting "letter grades." At our school if you get in the top 10% in a block you get a note in your file (so there is some incentive). As far as competition between classmates--- I cannot really say because I rarely study at school and pretty much just see my classmates to lift, play tennis, golf, or in OMM lab. The school (as I presume others are) is very careful to not expose anybody's grades, so unless you go around bragging nobody will know and you will look like a douche anyway. I always assume the people that drop hints about their grades are barely passing or trying to get people to study with them, as they have no friends anyway.
 
For me it helps a little knowing that I am not getting "letter grades." At our school if you get in the top 10% in a block you get a note in your file (so there is some incentive). As far as competition between classmates--- I cannot really say because I rarely study at school and pretty much just see my classmates to lift, play tennis, golf, or in OMM lab. The school (as I presume others are) is very careful to not expose anybody's grades, so unless you go around bragging nobody will know and you will look like a douche anyway. I always assume the people that drop hints about their grades are barely passing or trying to get people to study with them, as they have no friends anyway.

Thanks, I think it's just good to know that aside from being in that top 10%, a pass is a pass, whether it was comfortable or just barely. I tended to be a crammer in undergrad too, but I'll probably have to keep up with things much better since I applied for the pcc track. Having time outside of class is really important to me since I have a wife and daughter I like spend at least some time with plus when I don't have time to go the gym I get really grumpy.
 
Yeah that's how I feel. I have no problem studying but am unfamiliar with how I will handle the new schedule. I was near the top of my class in undergrad so I do not have much experience struggling and dealing with intense studying pressure. I would imagine feeling unprepared for every test in medical school is bad for confidence. I keep reading these other threads talking about how students are facing panels regarding expulsion, that would be HORRIFYING! Working so hard to get into med school to follow your dreams then have it come to a screeching halt.

What is the average number/percent of 1st year dropouts/failouts??

I would like to think those who do not succeed in medical school are those who do not have an inherent love for medicine and healing.

We started with 225, added 15 who transfered in but only graduated 180. So 60 out of 240 dropped out.

Most of those who dropped out were in the first year. We lost 10 students between orientation and the first day of class.

"I would like to think those who do not succeed in medical school are those who do not have an inherent love for medicine and healing."

I don't think it is the love of medicine but the desire to do what it takes to get a passing grade. If that means studying all the time, and spending the entire weekend in the library. Not just putting in the time but trying to learn what it takes to pass.
 
I hate it when people say medical school is "so hard". First of all, what did you think you were getting into? Second of all, you can make anything sound terrible.

You've got to realize that everything that comes out of a med student's mouth is a lie. You're not really covering "all" of biochem in 5 weeks, no matter what you say. The tests aren't impossible. You won't have to sacrifice your first born just to get through anatomy. And it's not at all like drinking water from a fire hydrant. That just sounds like torture, when in reality what you're really doing is chilling back and drinking a latte while you read some biochem. My god, how awful!

If you described your typical day to anyone who actually does real work for a living, they'd laugh in your face.

"Well, I get up at 7, work out, eat a nutritional breakfast, get some coffee, go to class if I feel like it or I might even stay home, read books and note packets all day, check my facebook, check on all the new celebrity gossip on TMZ's webpage, have dinner, watch some TV, and go to bed. It's REALLY hard!"

The biggest factor is stress, and it can make even the small things seem like Godzilla.

So remember, when anyone says anything about how hard something is, don't believe it. It's not true, and you're not them.
I don't know why this thread even continued beyond this post.
 
Clift, if you don't mind my asking, what school did you go to? (i you don't want to post it, you can PM me)

We started with 225, added 15 who transfered in but only graduated 180. So 60 out of 240 dropped out.

Most of those who dropped out were in the first year. We lost 10 students between orientation and the first day of class.

"I would like to think those who do not succeed in medical school are those who do not have an inherent love for medicine and healing."

I don't think it is the love of medicine but the desire to do what it takes to get a passing grade. If that means studying all the time, and spending the entire weekend in the library. Not just putting in the time but trying to learn what it takes to pass.
 
Refer to "facing dismissal" in the above thread. It's not easy, anyone can be dismissed without hard work.
 
This is where the pancake analogy comes from. good video.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5RapBjos3I[/YOUTUBE]
 
This is where the pancake analogy comes from. good video.

[YOUTUBE]R5RapBjos3I[/YOUTUBE]

Great Video



So if we are only on a P/F system then what are all of the stats that are important when trying to get an awesome residency?
 
We started with 225, added 15 who transfered in but only graduated 180. So 60 out of 240 dropped out.

Most of those who dropped out were in the first year. We lost 10 students between orientation and the first day of class.

"I would like to think those who do not succeed in medical school are those who do not have an inherent love for medicine and healing."

I don't think it is the love of medicine but the desire to do what it takes to get a passing grade. If that means studying all the time, and spending the entire weekend in the library. Not just putting in the time but trying to learn what it takes to pass.

Wow, 25% of the class? That is ridiculous for any US school!
As someone going through the app cycle right now I would like to know what school as well. Please PM it if you feel uncomfortable posting.
 
Medical school isn't hard... Per se.. What's hard is making yourself go to the library (or place of study) and sit there for 8 hours/day, covering the same material that you just went over two days ago.

Tons of material=tons of work. It's more self-discipline than anything. Which, believe it or not, isn't the easiest thing to keep going for an entire year.

PS. We lost 0 first year students from our class of 190.
 
I'm in the same boat JP. Hopefully we both come to the same decision..

Me too! We will be the regulars at KCOM lectures... want to sit in the front too? (LOL)
 
med school is hard.

seriously, if it wasnt, i would be disappointed. this is graduate school, not undergrad... expect to be pushed to your limits (whether those limits are learning material, time management, keeping your sanity, etc etc), and then past them. try to keep an outside life, but honestly, dont plan on having much of one. yes you can sneak away every now and then, but when it comes down to it, there is a TON of material and nothing but sitting down and studying will get it into your memory (i think every one of my classmates wishes it was like the matrix and we could just load things into our brains like a computer).

to put it simply:

all the people that say that med school is hard are right.

all the people that say its not that bad are right too. its still hard, but its something we love so it's easy to justify mentally killing ourselves over.


oh..... and yes, MOST classes are a complete waste of time to go to. I always thought class was the best place to learn..... TOTALLY wrong! Once you find out how to study, nothing else can be as productive as that. We are supposed to go to class, but even if Im there im thinking how I wish i could go back to my cave to crack the books on my own.
 
med school is hard.
...
to put it simply:

all the people that say that med school is hard are right.

all the people that say its not that bad are right too. its still hard, but its something we love so it's easy to justify mentally killing ourselves over.


oh..... and yes, MOST classes are a complete waste of time to go to. I always thought class was the best place to learn..... TOTALLY wrong! Once you find out how to study, nothing else can be as productive as that. We are supposed to go to class, but even if Im there im thinking how I wish i could go back to my cave to crack the books on my own.

Agree with the above....and if you're a compulsive schmuck like I am/was who kept thinking,"If I DON'T do all the reading AND go to class AND make notes AND do questions, I'll miss something --- you'll wind up burning out in about 6 months and learning goes out the window. Unfortunately, we had an administrator who believed in going to class and although it was not mandatory, the recordings were cut off whenever class attendance was down.....yet the school emphasized 'adult learning' (i.e. go home and read after a one hour lecture over the chapter with appropriate emphasis to guide your studying and follow up with a 5 point quiz to see if you got the major points).....it was a bit schizophrenic.....
I wound up not having a good big picture in first and second year and it really was reflected in my grades....3rd and 4th - when I could focus on a subject with one or two good resources was a different story.....

Oh, and as for how hard could it be?....an example I've used before....

When your prof in undergrad tells you to have a cursory familiarity with a desks in the library, you might need to know how many there are and in general where they're located in terms of what floors have them and which ones don't....

When your prof in med school tells you to have a cursory familiarity with desks in the library......you need to know that the desk in the corner of the 4th floor has 5 screws with a right hand twist and one bolt with a lock washer in the most northeast position. That lock washer was manufactured in Reading, Pennsylvania on lock washer machine #3 whose operator had fought on the beaches of Tarawa with the 2nd Marine Regiment in WWII. He was working overtime the day THAT particular lockwasher was made and was receiving $2.25 an hour overtime pay. The lock washer was derived from metals mined in the African country of Kenya from mine #3 located in the south-central part of the country and brought up from the inner mineshaft via a small Rwandan youth who was making money to send home to Mom and Dad.......Oh, be able to answer the question about what material the Rwandan youth used for his shoes and would that necessarily generate bunions or not.....

So, is it harder? Not really, just a helluva lot more detail...and you'd better know the interactions and implications......
 
Agree with the above....and if you're a compulsive schmuck like I am/was who kept thinking,"If I DON'T do all the reading AND go to class AND make notes AND do questions, I'll miss something --- you'll wind up burning out in about 6 months and learning goes out the window. Unfortunately, we had an administrator who believed in going to class and although it was not mandatory, the recordings were cut off whenever class attendance was down.....yet the school emphasized 'adult learning' (i.e. go home and read after a one hour lecture over the chapter with appropriate emphasis to guide your studying and follow up with a 5 point quiz to see if you got the major points).....it was a bit schizophrenic.....
I wound up not having a good big picture in first and second year and it really was reflected in my grades....3rd and 4th - when I could focus on a subject with one or two good resources was a different story.....

Oh, and as for how hard could it be?....an example I've used before....

When your prof in undergrad tells you to have a cursory familiarity with a desks in the library, you might need to know how many there are and in general where they're located in terms of what floors have them and which ones don't....

When your prof in med school tells you to have a cursory familiarity with desks in the library......you need to know that the desk in the corner of the 4th floor has 5 screws with a right hand twist and one bolt with a lock washer in the most northeast position. That lock washer was manufactured in Reading, Pennsylvania on lock washer machine #3 whose operator had fought on the beaches of Tarawa with the 2nd Marine Regiment in WWII. He was working overtime the day THAT particular lockwasher was made and was receiving $2.25 an hour overtime pay. The lock washer was derived from metals mined in the African country of Kenya from mine #3 located in the south-central part of the country and brought up from the inner mineshaft via a small Rwandan youth who was making money to send home to Mom and Dad.......Oh, be able to answer the question about what material the Rwandan youth used for his shoes and would that necessarily generate bunions or not.....

So, is it harder? Not really, just a helluva lot more detail...and you'd better know the interactions and implications......


are you implying that a large portion of medical education is the history of the procedures and equipment. I know the detail is going to be important but please dont tell me I have to go through the history of medicine- that would be a complete waste of time- and confusing at the same time- instead of drawing blood I am now bloodletting? It could happen :D
 
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