SEXISM still exists?

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Evisju7

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I've been starting some arguments on news sites (which is stupid, I know. It's pretty darn addicting though. Once you start the argument, you just can't let it go..)

The problem is, I've used my facebook account to log-in. So, people can view my photos and age-group. I'm young, female, and USED to model. Not anymore.. definitely not cut out for that crap. I despise the industry, but still have some photos I was tagged in for memory's sake.

I base my arguments in facts and try to avoid name-calling, personal attacks, etc. Basically, sticking to the proper rules of arguments. Focus on the issue.

People (men only), when offended by what I've said, or disagree with me, start to attack me as person. They focus on my gender, age, and looks. So to negate my viewpoints, they'll say: "Okay look sweetie", "You're wrong Honey", "You're naive" "Okay, Nurse Goodbody" (that was the most offensive).

I know I'm asking for it when I get online and argue with strangers, no need to lecture me. I have since, made everything on my page PRIVATE, but I would still like to start a thread on this. (Guys, you're welcome here too. I realize that sexism exists for both men and women, I'm just familiar with the latter).

My point is broader than this. Women, do you notice sexism more-so because of your science orientation?

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Someone on the internet was wrong?!
 
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People are ALWAYS surprised when I tell them that my major is Cell and Molecular Biology, and that I want to be a doctor. Men and women both. Then they often follow up with "Why don't you go to nursing school?" "I have a friend in PA school, it's great because she has more time for family stuff," or just plain giving me skeptical look. I think people have good intentions most of the time and are just trying to relate to me, but their comments sometimes have sexist undertones. The fact is, society views a man as a doctor, and a woman as a woman doctor.
 
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People are ALWAYS surprised when I tell them that my major is Cell and Molecular Biology, and that I want to be a doctor. Men and women both. Then they often follow up with "Why don't you go to nursing school?" "I have a friend in PA school, it's great because she has more time for family stuff," or just plain giving me skeptical look. I think people have good intentions most of the time and are just trying to relate to me, but their comments sometimes have sexist undertones. The fact is, society views a man as a doctor, and a woman as a woman doctor.

Yes. I have told several close friends I'm pursuing med school, to be a doctor, and they still call me "nurse". It's meant kindly, but I'm not a nurse. And I don't want to be one. Nurses are great, but they are not only women. It's offensive to myself and to nurses.
 
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Of course there's still sexism; it's not like it has magically disappeared. Women face gender bias in all sorts of jobs, not just science/medicine, and are still known to be paid significantly less than their male counterparts. Women in powerful positions are often times judged differently than men, from appearance to attitude (bitchy vs. assertive) and so on.

I have personally experienced this, but it doesn't make me hate everyone or work harder to prove myself. I work hard regardless and get my jobs done, while trying to ignore whatever sexist comment someone feels they need to express to me. Having thick skin thus far in life has helped me significantly and I suggest you develop the same if you do plan on pursuing a career in medicine. You don't need to let people walk all over you, but you shouldn't sit around and whine about how unfair life is either...
 
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People are ALWAYS surprised when I tell them that my major is Cell and Molecular Biology, and that I want to be a doctor. Men and women both. Then they often follow up with "Why don't you go to nursing school?" "I have a friend in PA school, it's great because she has more time for family stuff," or just plain giving me skeptical look. I think people have good intentions most of the time and are just trying to relate to me, but their comments sometimes have sexist undertones. The fact is, society views a man as a doctor, and a woman as a woman doctor.
I am a man and part of society, and the gender of a doctor never crosses my mind. Don't speak for all of society. There are many ignorant people out there who say plenty of ignorant and inappropriate things... What is the point of this thread?
 
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I'm shocked more by the naivete of the title question. Of course sexism still exists. The people who think sexism doesn't exist anymore are probably the same people who thought racism officially ended when a half-black president was elected.

Clavicle's right on. It's important to acknowledge and work to correct prejudice, but on a personal level, don't let it affect who you fundamentally are. I've seen too many people with enormous chips on their shoulders (due to perceived slights, both real and imagined) who have a very difficult type relating to classmates and coworkers because they can't see past the racism/sexism they suffer.

But yeah, it's still out there. Anyone who thinks we've evolved as a society should just spend 20 minutes looking through Youtube comments.
 
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But yeah, it's still out there. Anyone who thinks we've evolved as a society should just spend 20 minutes looking through Youtube comments.
Perhaps said in jest, but I'd say we have definitely evolved - I suppose you mean progressed as "evolution" isn't necessarily favorable change - as a society in the U.S. We no longer lobotomize people to make them compliant, sexual minorities are gaining ground more and more, women definitely are in a better position than in any time in the past 250,000 years and more people are being educated as a percentage of the population. We are steadily figuring things out.

But yes, YouTube comments kill brain cells.
 
I'm shocked more by the naivete of the title question. Of course sexism still exists. The people who think sexism doesn't exist anymore are probably the same people who thought racism officially ended when a half-black president was elected.

Clavicle's right on. It's important to acknowledge and work to correct prejudice, but on a personal level, don't let it affect who you fundamentally are. I've seen too many people with enormous chips on their shoulders (due to perceived slights, both real and imagined) who have a very difficult type relating to classmates and coworkers because they can't see past the racism/sexism they suffer.

But yeah, it's still out there. Anyone who thinks we've evolved as a society should just spend 20 minutes looking through Youtube comments.


The point of the title is to get you to click and view. It worked :)

No, I know sexism exists. Clearly I've witnessed it and I have seen statistics on the disparity between men and women in the workplace.
It's just sad to me and I don't really know what to do about it. God forbid I become a feminist. So, I'm a humanist.. and truly, I believe that people should be judged on an individual basis, not within their gender. But that doesn't seem like enough, because we still have this huge gap between the genders NOW.
 
Sexism DEFINITELY exists. As a male, I notice how I have certain privileges and powers in this society that my female counterparts don't have or don't have equally as I do. Even growing up, my sister and I were never treated equally.

I think the most important thing one can do is to acknowledge that it still exists, be aware of it, and make a conscious declaration to try and not to let it influence you. Inevitably, culture is a powerful thing though and only through counter-cultural movements, such as Feminism, can our society truly move forward towards gender equality.
 
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I'm shocked more by the naivete of the title question. Of course sexism still exists. The people who think sexism doesn't exist anymore are probably the same people who thought racism officially ended when a half-black president was elected.

Clavicle's right on. It's important to acknowledge and work to correct prejudice, but on a personal level, don't let it affect who you fundamentally are. I've seen too many people with enormous chips on their shoulders (due to perceived slights, both real and imagined) who have a very difficult type relating to classmates and coworkers because they can't see past the racism/sexism they suffer.

But yeah, it's still out there. Anyone who thinks we've evolved as a society should just spend 20 minutes looking through Youtube comments.
Some people might not like this comment simply because of semantics. Sexism is a noun that means prejudice, stereotyping, or discrimination, typically against women, on the basis of sex. If you just say "sexism exists" you're essentially saying that people, most likely women, are discriminated against because of their sex. Not all women are discriminated against because of their sex. Not all men discriminate against women. It would be better to say that there are still some sexist individuals out there. Same goes for racism. While there are still ignorant individuals out there, I think that society HAS evolved in many ways. That we have a black president, suggests that race is not an issue or concern to the majority of the electorate.
 
Yes, it still exists. Lots of bad things still exist, despite the earnest efforts of people to change things. But it's better to light a candle than curse the darkness.

You can also laugh last, because if the current demographic trend holds, by 2040, the vast majority of doctors in this country will be women.

I've been starting some arguments on news sites (which is stupid, I know. It's pretty darn addicting though. Once you start the argument, you just can't let it go..)

The problem is, I've used my facebook account to log-in. So, people can view my photos and age-group. I'm young, female, and USED to model. Not anymore.. definitely not cut out for that crap. I despise the industry, but still have some photos I was tagged in for memory's sake.

I base my arguments in facts and try to avoid name-calling, personal attacks, etc. Basically, sticking to the proper rules of arguments. Focus on the issue.

People (men only), when offended by what I've said, or disagree with me, start to attack me as person. They focus on my gender, age, and looks. So to negate my viewpoints, they'll say: "Okay look sweetie", "You're wrong Honey", "You're naive" "Okay, Nurse Goodbody" (that was the most offensive).

I know I'm asking for it when I get online and argue with strangers, no need to lecture me. I have since, made everything on my page PRIVATE, but I would still like to start a thread on this. (Guys, you're welcome here too. I realize that sexism exists for both men and women, I'm just familiar with the latter).

My point is broader than this. Women, do you notice sexism more-so because of your science orientation?
 
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I took a taxi to one of my interviews and I told the driver I was going to a med school interview. He said "oh, you could be a gynecologist or a pediatrician! You have the look for that!" He didn't know anything about my other than my gender (I'm female).

It was almost as annoying as when people assume I want to be a nurse when I'm volunteering at the hospital.
 
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Some people might not like this comment simply because of semantics. Sexism is a noun that means prejudice, stereotyping, or discrimination, typically against women, on the basis of sex. If you just say "sexism exists" you're essentially saying that people, most likely women, are discriminated against because of their sex. Not all women are discriminated against because of their sex. Not all men discriminate against women. It would be better to say that there are still some sexist individuals out there. Same goes for racism. While there are still ignorant individuals out there, I think that society HAS evolved in many ways. That we have a black president, suggests that race is not an issue or concern to the majority of the electorate.

I'm not sure where you took semantics lessons from, and in any case, I have no interest in getting into an Internet pissing match. I wasn't aware that saying "sexism exists" or "racism exists" implied that this form of prejudice exists across all individuals and at a societal level. To acknowledge that some people are sexist/racist, to me, acknowledges that sexism/racism exist in some form in some pockets of society. I've never seen anyone use that term to describe all people, everywhere.
 
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Some people might not like this comment simply because of semantics. Sexism is a noun that means prejudice, stereotyping, or discrimination, typically against women, on the basis of sex. If you just say "sexism exists" you're essentially saying that people, most likely women, are discriminated against because of their sex. Not all women are discriminated against because of their sex. Not all men discriminate against women. It would be better to say that there are still some sexist individuals out there. Same goes for racism. While there are still ignorant individuals out there, I think that society HAS evolved in many ways. That we have a black president, suggests that race is not an issue or concern to the majority of the electorate.

Yes, there are individual people who are sexist and individuals who are not, but the greater issue is that society is still sexist. Sexism isn't just born inside random individuals. Our society (and by extension our culture) breeds this. It's incorrect to say "not all women are discriminated against because of their sex" because all of our women live in a similar society. Perhaps they don't face the exact same sexist individuals, but they still all face the same prejudices that we all hold as a society. Kitchen jokes, objectification, telling girls that "men prefer no make up" instead of "you're beautiful no matter what" (which symbolizes how important male approval is), etc. are present in some form in everyone, whether we are aware of it or not.

As I always say, culture is a POWERFUL thing because it seems so common sense to us that we might not even be aware of it.
 
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Were do you all come from? Seriously. I feel like reasonable people like you do not exist in the real world..
 
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Were do you all come from? Seriously. I feel like reasonable people like you do not exist in the real world..
We're on SDN. ;) Sexism exists far less among educated adults. I never deal with sexism at school, but when I go home, I'm told to marry a rich man. -_-
 
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You know what really grinds my gears. Female biology and/or chemistry majors who join "Women under-represented in STEM" groups. Or similarly, "Women under-represented in Medicine & Science".
The groups should really be "Women under-represented in STEM including computer science, but excluding biology and chemistry" and "Women under-represented in Orthopedics & doctoral degrees in science"

http://www.nsf.gov/statistics/seind12/c2/c2s2.htm
http://www.lifescied.org/content/13/3/478.full
http://yaledailynews.com/blog/2006/04/27/gender-gap-in-majors-persists/

You don't see me starting a "Men under-represented in Social Sciences" club... google "men underrepresented in social sciences" and the whole first page is about women in STEM.

EDIT: Editted to establish clarity of argument. My point herein is that sexism is not a one-way street. And though OP referenced that it does affect both sexes, the question to end the OP was worded specifically in a way as to discredit sexism against males.
 
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. That we have a black president, suggests that race is not an issue or concern to the majority of the electorate.
I disagree and propose that it suggests the exact opposite. Where I live, the vast majority of white people's main reason for not voting for Obama - both times - was because he is black. Conversely, the vast majority of blacks voted for him - both times - for the sole reason that he is black. Most people in my area of the state and maybe the country cared far more about the color of his skin than his experience, his views, his policy ideas or the quality of his leadership. It is racist in itself to have such a strong, single factor bias both for or against someone.

Perhaps it's more accurate to say many whites didn't vote for him because he wasn't white and many blacks voted for him for the same reason. Those are the unfortunate racial dynamics we have in this country.
 
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I'm glad I can use this on SDN:

duty_calls.png
 
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The point of the title is to get you to click and view. It worked :)

No, I know sexism exists. Clearly I've witnessed it and I have seen statistics on the disparity between men and women in the workplace.
It's just sad to me and I don't really know what to do about it. God forbid I become a feminist. So, I'm a humanist.. and truly, I believe that people should be judged on an individual basis, not within their gender. But that doesn't seem like enough, because we still have this huge gap between the genders NOW.

Why, oh why has feminism become a four-letter word? How is it that we have let 'anti-feminists' corrupt the word to the extent that no one wants to admit to being one anymore? I'm absolutely a feminist, and so is my husband. So were my mother and father, and proudly so. We all believe that women are as capable as men and should have all of the same rights, privileges and responsibilities. Why is this in any way revolutionary? And who could possibly object to a concept this benign and this (seemingly) obvious.

And yet, the word feminist is said with a sneer or air quotes, or negated in advance -- "I don't want to sound like a feminist, but..." "It's not like I'm a feminist, but..." The word is feminist, not racist. Not bigot. Not fanatic or zealot or ignoramus.

I know (think) that's not what you meant by your (bolded) comment, but far, far too many people mean exactly that. We need to get our word back --
 
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Yeah @DokterMom , I think people have no idea what feminism actually is...

THIS.

Feminism is, simply, the belief that women should be treated equally and given the same opportunities as men. You either support this as a feminist or you don't. It is NOT anti-man. It is anti-BS.
 
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Agreed, I'm not fond of the term mansplaining. It's oppressive and unequal.

EDIT: Not being facetious - genuinely dislike the term.
 
THIS.

Feminism is, simply, the belief that women should be treated equally and given the same opportunities as men. You either support this as a feminist or you don't. It is NOT anti-man. It is anti-BS.

I think the only reason feminism isn't the right word is because it means that all men and all women should be treated equally, which also encompasses race/sex preference/orientation/class/etc.

Agreed, I'm not fond of the term mansplaining. It's oppressive and unequal. But it's often accurate as fak.

There. Fixed that for ya.
 
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Jeez. I hope you guys aren't afraid of being called a feminist because of ugly stereotypes. You think women should have equal opportunities as men? Congrats, your a feminist
 
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o-FEMINIST-570.jpg
 
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Some people might not like this comment simply because of semantics. Sexism is a noun that means prejudice, stereotyping, or discrimination, typically against women, on the basis of sex. If you just say "sexism exists" you're essentially saying that people, most likely women, are discriminated against because of their sex. Not all women are discriminated against because of their sex. Not all men discriminate against women. It would be better to say that there are still some sexist individuals out there. Same goes for racism. While there are still ignorant individuals out there, I think that society HAS evolved in many ways. That we have a black president, suggests that race is not an issue or concern to the majority of the electorate.
This pot hasn't been stirred enough. For arguments sake, why do you believe that a sexist person is ignorant?
 
This pot hasn't been stirred enough. For arguments sake, why do you believe that a sexist person is ignorant?

A lot of sexist people actually don't know what they believe in/say/do is actually bigoted and prejudiced. That makes them ignorant. There are a few who are fully informed and still choose to be sexist, in which case they're just an dingus.
 
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A lot of sexist people actually don't know what they believe in/say/do is actually bigoted and prejudiced. That makes them ignorant. There are a few who are fully informed and still choose to be sexist, in which case they're just an dingus.
Exactly, however what is it that makes them that way (a dingus!)? What about individuals who have a string of bad experiences with the opposite sex, and now are none too warm towards them?

PS dingus is underused, high five!
 
Exactly, however what is it that makes them that way (a dingus!)? What about individuals who have a string of bad experiences with the opposite sex, and now are none too warm towards them?

PS dingus is underused, high five!

The fact that they wish for men to have preferential treatment over women, for men to have certain rights that women shouldn't have, and for men to be in a certain position of power in society (whether either gender wants that or not) above women.

Not being too warm towards women and wanting women to be second class citizens are separate.
 
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The fact that they wish for men to have preferential treatment over women, for men to have certain rights that women shouldn't have, and for men to be in a certain position of power in society (whether either gender wants that or not) above women.

Not being too warm towards women and wanting women to be second class citizens are separate.
Sexism is a two way street. Although men are certainly more infamous for it, women aren't guilt free by any means.

The fact that they wish for men to have preferential treatment over women, for men to have certain rights that women shouldn't have, and for men to be in a certain position of power in society (whether either gender wants that or not) above women.

Not being too warm towards women and wanting women to be second class citizens are separate.

Perhaps. You'd be surprised what those seeds can sprout into.
 
Sexism is a two way street. Although men are certainly more infamous for it, women aren't guilt free by any means.



Perhaps. You'd be surprised what those seeds can sprout into.

I never meant to imply that women couldn't be prejudiced against men. Sexism is a complex issue. But whatever the case, if a man wishes to get certain privileges solely for being a man, they suck as a person and are a "dingus".

If a person had bad experiences with women and thus wants all women to be treated unequally, they are also a dingus. That's like saying that someone got harassed by Asian gangs and now wants all Asians to lose their rights.
 
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I never meant to imply that women couldn't be prejudiced against men. Sexism is a complex issue. But whatever the case, if a man wishes to get certain privileges solely for being a man, they suck as a person and are a "dingus".

If a person had bad experiences with women and thus wants all women to be treated unequally, they are also a dingus. That's like saying that someone got harassed by Asian gangs and now wants all Asians to lose their rights.
That would solve that individuals problem though, would it not? It's certainly radical, but can you fault someone for being selfish and wanting to protect themselves?
#devilsadvocate
 
That would solve that individuals problem though, would it not? It's certainly radical, but can you fault someone for being selfish and wanting to protect themselves?
#devilsadvocate

Yes, because many stupid things can solve an individual's problem. The holocaust, the KKK, 9/11, all started from wanting to solve individuals' problems. If someone wants that to happen all because of their individual problems, then they're a dingus.
 
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It's curious to see that some women suffer from sexism more than others. I'm a girl (and a girly one at that - skirts, heels, dresses, etc), but I can't say that anyone asked me about marriage/kids or was surprised that I want to be a doctor. All in all I've very rarely been on the receiving end of this nonsense (and when I was I straightened out the opposition so they may never make that mistake again).

I suppose all we have left to do is keep our heads high and march toward our goals no matter what.
 
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What about full custody of the children in a marriage, domestic violence cases automatically portray men as guilty, no selective service, etc...

I'm in full with feminism but feminists should reconsider the movement public figures since all they portray is hembrism, accept the responsibility of "equality" ( Ex: Abortion coming from a mother without the acceptance of the father is totally acceptable in this society but vice versa is not.)
 
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What about full custody of the children in a marriage, domestic violence cases automatically portray men as guilty, no selective service, etc...

I'm in full with feminism but feminists should reconsider the movement public figures since all they portray is hembrism, accept the responsibility of "equality" ( Ex: Abortion coming from a mother without the acceptance of the father is totally acceptable in this society but vice versa is not.)

Full custody? Certainly not the norm for the last 20 years. The courts' overwhelming presumption is shared custody unless one of the parties can show why that is not in the best interests of the child.

The presumption that men are guilty in domestic violence cases? While women certainly dish out a share of domestic abuse, the vast majority of violent incidents reported to police are male on female. To some extent, men are reluctant to report physical violence from their female domestic partners, but you're not seriously arguing that it's 50/50, right?

And while I can empathize with a man whose partner gets an abortion against his wishes, the man's 'stake' in an unwanted pregnancy falls far short of the woman's. While it's not an honorable thing to do, he, at least, has the ability to simply walk away. She cannot.

Your arguments are simplistic and don't reflect society's gray areas.
 
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What about full custody of the children in a marriage, domestic violence cases automatically portray men as guilty, no selective service, etc...

I'm in full with feminism but feminists should reconsider the movement public figures since all they portray is hembrism, accept the responsibility of "equality" ( Ex: Abortion coming from a mother without the acceptance of the father is totally acceptable in this society but vice versa is not.)
Custody is dependent on other factors such as the parent's job and income, social history and even religiosity, in some cases. You should watch COPS more often. If the man has a bruise anywhere on him, she's going to jail, even if he goes too. As DoctorMom stated, the concerns surrounding pregnancy lie predominantly with the female individual. I don't see how the male can have any say in the matter that overrides that of the pregnant female. Selective service is designed to put teenagers on the battle field. I suppose it is unequal in that only males must register, but if something comes up and draft orders go out, there will be more problems than gender equality with the generation of kids we have now.
 
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Sexism is a two way street. Although men are certainly more infamous for it, women aren't guilt free by any means.



Perhaps. You'd be surprised what those seeds can sprout into.

I never meant to imply that women couldn't be prejudiced against men. Sexism is a complex issue. But whatever the case, if a man wishes to get certain privileges solely for being a man, they suck as a person and are a "dingus".

If a person had bad experiences with women and thus wants all women to be treated unequally, they are also a dingus. That's like saying that someone got harassed by Asian gangs and now wants all Asians to lose their rights.

You realize that women can be part of the patriarchy but can't really oppress men, right?

A bad experience with women=big deal... A bad experience with 2-3 people is fine. If you use it to define an entire gender, then that's stupid.

What about full custody of the children in a marriage, domestic violence cases automatically portray men as guilty, no selective service, etc...

I'm in full with feminism but feminists should reconsider the movement public figures since all they portray is hembrism, accept the responsibility of "equality" ( Ex: Abortion coming from a mother without the acceptance of the father is totally acceptable in this society but vice versa is not.)

You realize feminists argue against this right? Most also advocate for paternity leave following the birth of a child.
 
You realize that women can be part of the patriarchy but can't really oppress men, right?

A bad experience with women=big deal... A bad experience with 2-3 people is fine. If you use it to define an entire gender, then that's stupid.



You realize feminists argue against this right? Most also advocate for paternity leave following the birth of a child.

I never said women can oppress men, but they certainly can be prejudiced against men. And that's all I claimed.


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I never said women can oppress men, but they certainly can be prejudiced against men. And that's all I claimed.


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Women oppressing men? Not in our society, no. But it's not as if that is impossible.
 
Women oppressing men? Not in our society, no. But it's not as if that is impossible.
I'm not aware of any societies were this would be possible. But i suppose it's theoretically something that could happen
 
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It was almost as annoying as when people assume I want to be a nurse when I'm volunteering at the hospital.

It's not going to end anytime soon. People assume I am going to be a nurse and I'm a 3rd year med student.
 
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I'm surprised at the responses in this thread. You people must live in some backwards area. Half of the physicians at my hospital are female--and I live in the poorer rural region of my state. I haven't seen anything overtly sexist but you'll always run into someone with very traditional views, and i don't know how old you are, but you can't change how people feel and think.

An interesting thing I saw while in undergrad was that the females actually had more advantages; they were more likely to be helped by professors which in turn led to research opportunities.

I can see how strangers online would throw petty insults at you--but have you actually experienced sexism in real life?
 
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