Should I forgo committee letter?

[PhoenixAZ]

The general consensus from SDN is that an Aug app is late - even a July app is a bit late. However, my school's committee letter won't be sent until end of July through end of August. This means I am screwed and my chance is significantly impacted before I even start based on the wisdom from SDN. I am thinking about forgoing the committee letter process, but I also know that some schools prefer committee letter. I am stuck either way. Any advice?

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[PhoenixAZ]

Thanks so much for taking the time to respond. I really appreciate it. If for the most part that formal admissions committee reviews won't happen in September since they aren't there in the summer (which makes sense), I wonder why it is such a common belief that one must submit as soon as AMCAS allows it, that a July app is a bit late, and an August app is definitely very late. I also read many times that taking MCAT in July is too late (I am considering retaking in July or Aug to boost my chance). Is a July or Aug retake too late?

 

[Eppur Si Muove]

Do not forgo the committee letter. This looks really bad according to med schools if you have a committee and don't get a letter from them

 

[gettheleadout]

Rule 1: Take a Breath


That is typical of committee letters. Understand the timing here. Schools dont get verified apps from AMCAS until starting July 1st and doesnt really ramp up until mid July thru August and beyond. Secondaries cant be sent out until the primaries reach the schools and then returned (Late July thru September) and LORs, like committee letters dont need to be there until then. The absolute earliest an applicant's file is complete for review is August 1st, usually the first wave is mid-August thru early September. While admissions directors and staff will start looking at files and doing initial processing as things come, for the most part formal admission committee review meetings dont happen until September. Which makes sense as many faculty arent there in the summer.

There are applicants receiving interview invites in July every cycle.

 

[Scribblers]

The general consensus from SDN is that an Aug app is late - even a July app is a bit late. However, my school's committee letter won't be sent until end of July through end of August. This means I am screwed and my chance is significantly impacted before I even start based on the wisdom from SDN. I am thinking about forgoing the committee letter process, but I also know that some schools prefer committee letter. I am stuck either way. Any advice?

As gonnif notes above, this will depend somewhat on the school. A handful of schools will send interview invites before receiving letters.

In any case, having letters sent in late July or early August is not late by any means. My committee letter went out the last week of July, and I was still plenty successful. I think the more important thing is having the primary application in as early as possible (meaning totally complete with an MCAT score).

I also read many times that taking MCAT in July is too late (I am considering retaking in July or Aug to boost my chance). Is a July or Aug retake too late?

Gonnif covered this pretty well.

I will just add that this approach is a big gamble. If your score is good, you're still one of the later apps that's going to be read, which is a disadvantage. If your score is not good and you already submitted, you are now committed to a less than ideal application under less than ideal circumstances, which is a bigger disadvantage. In either case, if you don't get in, that means you're a re-applicant the next year, which is an even bigger disadvantage.

 

[NeuResurgens]

I'm under the impression that if your school has a committee, you must use that letter.

 

[Lawpy]

Do not forgo the committee letter. This looks really bad according to med schools if you have a committee and don't get a letter from them

I'm under the impression that if your school has a committee, you must use that letter.

Let's slow down and clarify few things. Even if your school has a committee letter, you are no way "required" to use the letter. That sounds like if you don't use the committee letter, your app gets thrown in the trash, which is certainly not true because there are numerous applicants here on SDN and elsewhere that ditched the committee letter and stuck with Interfolio. Results? Schools didn't care, and the applicants received several acceptances.

Committees have only one purpose. To help the adcoms by summarizing the contents of the letters from professors/PIs/coordinators etc. who do know the applicants personally. After all, adcoms don't want to be overwhelmed with numerous letters from each applicant.

Yet committees are incredibly flawed and manipulative. Several committees charge a fee to hapless applicants to receive a letter. Other committees require extensive interviews and provide very vague and often lukewarm evaluations, which tank the merit of the applicants' otherwise solid application.

Think about it this way. Would you want a letter from someone who knows you very well, or from the committee who hardly knows you and makes a living by taking advantage of hapless applicants?

Committee letters can be ditched, and valid/justified answers can be provided to schools in the secondaries. Schools, for the most part, don't mind if you ditch the committee letter as long as you provide adequate reasons.

 

[Eppur Si Muove]

Let's slow down and clarify few things. Even if your school has a committee letter, you are no way "required" to use the letter. That sounds like if you don't use the committee letter, your app gets thrown in the trash, which is certainly not true because there are numerous applicants here on SDN and elsewhere that ditched the committee letter and stuck with Interfolio. Results? Schools didn't care, and the applicants received several acceptances.

Committees have only one purpose. To help the adcoms by summarizing the contents of the letters from professors/PIs/coordinators etc. who do know the applicants personally. After all, adcoms don't want to be overwhelmed with numerous letters from each applicant.

Yet committees are incredibly flawed and manipulative. Several committees charge a fee to hapless applicants to receive a letter. Other committees require extensive interviews and provide very vague and often lukewarm evaluations, which tank the merit of the applicants' otherwise solid application.

Think about it this way. Would you want a letter from someone who knows you very well, or from the committee who hardly knows you and makes a living by taking advantage of hapless applicants?

I never said it is "required," but if you have a committee that writes letters and you don't get a letter through them it's a red flag. If you don't believe me call some of the med schools in your area. All 6 I spoke to told me that and many more on here have said the same.

 

[Lawpy]

I never said it is "required," but if you have a committee that writes letters and you don't get a letter through them it's a red flag. If you don't believe me call some of the med schools in your area. All 6 I spoke to told me that and many more on here have said the same.

I'm sorry but it's not a red flag by any means. And I know this because I did contact several schools individually, and I know numerous applicants who ditched the committee letter. As long as an adequate reason is provided, you are fine.

 

[Eppur Si Muove]

I'm sorry but it's not a red flag by any means. And I know this because I did contact several schools individually, and I know numerous applicants who ditched the committee letter. As long as an adequate reason is provided, you are fine.

K

 

[NeuResurgens]

I'm sorry but it's not a red flag by any means. And I know this because I did contact several schools individually, and I know numerous applicants who ditched the committee letter. As long as an adequate reason is provided, you are fine.

Well that's interesting then. I thought it was strongly encouraged. Either way, I'm glad my school doesn't have a committee to deal with.

 

[gettheleadout]

I never said it is "required," but if you have a committee that writes letters and you don't get a letter through them it's a red flag. If you don't believe me call some of the med schools in your area. All 6 I spoke to told me that and many more on here have said the same.

This is too broad to be correct. It depends on the particular medical school's familiarity with your undergrad, as well as the importance the medical school assigns to committee letters in general (i.e. they may not care at all). I applied without a letter from my school's committee and the only place this was brought up was at UChicago, where I already had to address this on the secondary. My interviewer (admin faculty) agreed with my reasoning for foregoing it.

 

[NeuResurgens]

This is too broad to be correct. It depends on the particular medical school's familiarity with your undergrad, as well as the importance the medical school assigns to committee letters in general (i.e. they may not care at all). I applied without a letter from my school's committee and the only place this was brought up was at UChicago, where I already had to address this on the secondary. My interviewer (admin faculty) agreed with my reasoning for foregoing it.

What was your reasoning, might I ask?

 

[Eppur Si Muove]

This is too broad to be correct. It depends on the particular medical school's familiarity with your undergrad, as well as the importance the medical school assigns to committee letters in general (i.e. they may not care at all). I applied without a letter from my school's committee and the only place this was brought up was at UChicago, where I already had to address this on the secondary. My interviewer (admin faculty) agreed with my reasoning for foregoing it.

If it's not a red flag, then why did you have to explain it on a secondary and again in person? It's bad advice to generally say that as long as you have an excuse, your fine. If your committee is terrible, then okay, but it's generally not good to skip on the committee letter.

 

[gettheleadout]

If it's not a red flag, then why did you have to explain it on a secondary and again in person? It's bad advice to generally say that as long as you have an excuse, your fine. If your committee is terrible, then okay, but it's generally not good to skip on the committee letter.

Maybe it was was for UChicago, yet I was still invited to interview there. My issue was with your broad statement that it's a red flag in general.

What was your reasoning, might I ask?

Committee timeline was unacceptable, committee was generally bad, etc. I'd really rather not go into detail here.

 

[Flashfan]

Could additional letters (such as the committee letter) be submitted as an update? Maybe send it to schools before interviews, or as a post-interview update?

 

[NeuResurgens]

Committee timeline was unacceptable, committee was generally bad, etc. I'd really rather not go into detail here.

No need, a general idea is all I was looking for, thanks! I was curious about what acceptable circumstances for forgoing the letter might entail.

 

[NickNaylor]

The problem is this: if you're applying from an even somewhat known school, medical schools are going to know that that school does (or doesn't) provide committee letters. Not having one will be a curious change that could reflect poorly on you depending on your reasoning for this. IMO, your reason would not be a good reason to skip the committee process altogether.

As far as whether or not the committee letter has value, I can say that at our institution it does. It gives context to your strengths compared to other people coming from your institution. It allows us to get a sense of what is important from your app based on people that have looked at a lot of apps. While the letters are generally vague, they do offer some utility. Besides, it's not as if the committee letter is by necessity the only letter that you send to schools. You can (and should) include additional individual letters if they aren't included within your committee packet.

I would not recommend skipping it for the reason provided here. It simply isn't going to make that much of a difference even if your letter is sent out at the end of August if your app is otherwise complete.

 

[Eppur Si Muove]

Maybe it was was for UChicago, yet I was still invited to interview there. My issue was with your broad statement that it's a red flag in general.

Committee timeline was unacceptable, committee was generally bad, etc. I'd really rather not go into detail here.

I understand. And being interviewed at UChicago tells me that your probably a great applicant and that it wouldn't be an issue anyway. I respect your opinion but still stand by what I said. I understand there are exceptions.

 

[gettheleadout]

I understand. And being interviewed at UChicago tells me that your probably a great applicant and that it wouldn't be an issue anyway. I respect your opinion but still stand by what I said. I understand there are exceptions.

I mean, the reality is that the safe route is to try and get a committee letter if it's normal for your school to provide them to applicants. I get that. I had a terrible experience overall with the committee at my school, and skipping out on their BS was absolutely the right choice for me. That said, I'm nearly certain there are schools that either won't know if your school offers committee letters (assuming you don't got to a well-known school) or won't care at all if you don't have one.

Also, I of course have to defer to @NickNaylor here, especially given his experience and having consulted with him about my own situation while applying. I can totally see situations where smaller schools sending out generally strong (or at least qualified) applicants have committees capable of providing meaningful insight in their letters. In my case, I really couldn't see what the committee could say that would be helpful; the fact that I outperformed my peers academically is evident by my GPA and MCAT, and I'm familiar with the typical successful medical school applicant from my school (and it's so incredibly cookie-cutter) and honestly, given my school, I think it's clear from my app that I was widely involved and generally successful on the level as would be expected of a strong student anywhere. Is that an arrogant judgment on my part? Maybe, probably, whatever. Committee letters are valued to different extents at different medical schools, as evidenced by their dispositions toward them in the application process. It can be risky to skip out on one, but if the alternative is more stressful what are you going to do?

 

[Lawpy]

The problem is this: if you're applying from an even somewhat known school, medical schools are going to know that that school does (or doesn't) provide committee letters. Not having one will be a curious change that could reflect poorly on you depending on your reasoning for this. IMO, your reason would not be a good reason to skip the committee process altogether.

As far as whether or not the committee letter has value, I can say that at our institution it does. It gives context to your strengths compared to other people coming from your institution. It allows us to get a sense of what is important from your app based on people that have looked at a lot of apps. While the letters are generally vague, they do offer some utility. Besides, it's not as if the committee letter is by necessity the only letter that you send to schools. You can (and should) include additional individual letters if they aren't included within your committee packet.

I would not recommend skipping it for the reason provided here. It simply isn't going to make that much of a difference even if your letter is sent out at the end of August if your app is otherwise complete.

This is assuming that the committees provide good judgement in assessing the applicant, something which is not necessarily true, or perhaps even detrimental to the applicant. Again, an evaluation from the people who know the applicants very well to offer strong letters significantly trumps the apparent benefits of having a letter from a committee who makes a living evaluating applicants despite hardly knowing them.

Is assessing strengths of the applicants with respect to their undergraduate peers really significant? Isn't that addressed by the applicant's academic performance? If the applicant does extraordinarily well but despises the university for being downright terrible (and yes this happens), it isn't recommended to get a letter from the despised university.

Really, the only reason committee letters are useful is that they summarize the contents of all LORs. But usefulness doesn't make it required.

It wasnt so long ago when committee letters were the primary and expected manner for applicants to submit letters of evaluation . I think in 2008/2009 AMCAS still had provisional direct letter submission for about 10-20 schools. Now, some 5 years later, it is common across most schools. But as I said previously in this thread, there are some reasons to consider a committee letter

I understand that, and I don't think such a requirement is productive. It justifies the prehealth committees to make a living out of applicants.

1) a particular medical school may still have a strong preference for committee letters
2) which committees from which UG schools each medical schools find accurate with their evaluation
3) Conversely, how an med school adcom will interpret lack of a committee letter

I admit #1 is school-specific. The problem is, I don't know what schools have "a strong preference" for committee letters, since I don't think that's public information.

And I'm not sure how #2 and #3 are really benefits when the applicant's academic performance and faculty LORs address them satisfactorily. Comparing the applicant to their undergraduate peers really holds no weight.

 

[NickNaylor]

This is assuming that the committees provide good judgement in assessing the applicant, something which is not necessarily true, or perhaps even detrimental to the applicant. Again, an evaluation from the people who know the applicants very well to offer strong letters significantly trumps the apparent benefits of having a letter from a committee who makes a living evaluating applicants despite hardly knowing them.

Is assessing strengths of the applicants with respect to their undergraduate peers really significant? Isn't that addressed by the applicant's academic performance? If the applicant does extraordinarily well but despises the university for being downright terrible (and yes this happens), it isn't recommended to get a letter from the despised university.

Really, the only reason committee letters are useful is that they summarize the contents of all LORs.

I've looked at many committee letters, and I can assure that if anything I did not use them to "summarize the contents of all LORs." Most of the value comes from where they specifically rank you in their cohort of applicants and the general gestalt statement they include at the end of the letter. It provides another data point in addition to their GPAs and MCAT scores. I don't even look at all the biographical information or other "facts" related to an applicant's time at their undergrad. I don't read the summaries of the letters if they're included. I will wait to read the letters themselves.

You are making a lot of assumptions about the committee process which may or may not be true. And let's assume that they are - guess what? There are plenty of applicants that deal with those things and are successful in the process. You are not special in this regard, and forgoing the process because you think you're special or otherwise not subject to the standard process is going to reflect very poorly on you - particularly if the institution gets a sense that that is your motivation in not getting a committee letter. It's entirely possible you may not even be asked about it. If that's the case, great - no problem. But understand that it's introducing another - and in most cases unnecessary - "unknown" into the process which may backfire.

You are establishing a false dichotomy in that you can either send a committee letter or you can send individual letters. That isn't the case. In the ideal situation - which is what the overwhelming majority of applicants do - you do both. Despite saying that it does in many application instructions and school policies, you shouldn't use the committee letter in place of other LORs. You should use it as a supplement.

If you want to stick it to the man or martyr yourself because you don't think that the committee at your school can evaluate you properly, then that is certainly your prerogative. However, I would not advise the typical applicant to forgo the committee letter for the reasons you state.

 

[gettheleadout]

The problem is, I don't know what schools have "a strong preference" for committee letters, since I don't think that's public information.

From information in their application materials, UChicago and Hopkins are two I would include.

 

[Pusheen]

Schools dont get verified apps from AMCAS until starting July 1st and doesnt really ramp up until mid July thru August and beyond. Secondaries cant be sent out until the primaries reach the schools and then returned (Late July thru September) and LORs, like committee letters dont need to be there until then. The absolute earliest an applicant's file is complete for review is August 1st, .

Bumping this to clarify if these dates are the same for all years, or was that just for the MCAT 2015 year. (I know the new MCAT backed a lot of stuff up).