PhD/PsyD Should I go for a phD when I just want to practice?

[princesspeach2]

Hello everyone!

EDITED MY POST- I tried to make it more concise and organized.

I've been a lurker for awhile, but this is my first post. I couldn't find any threads with the the answer that relates to my specific situation, if I missed any, don't hesitate to direct me to them.

As my question states, I'm wondering if I should plan my schooling around getting a phD or psyD in Clinical Psychology (with a focus on neuropsychology).

{As a side note-I really think I'd enjoy neuropsychology and would want in a hospital setting. I really enjoy learning about our bodies biology and how the brain functions. It just seems that it would be a good fit for me as I'm very analytically minded, I like stats/math/running tests, and enjoy working with people.

I've looked into a lot of other different areas, and didn't find any others to strike me as something I'd want to do the rest of my life.}

My reasons why I'm undecided:

1. I know I'll have to do a LOT of research and I'm okay with that, it's just once I'm done with my schooling, I don't want to go into research nor academia, and solely want to go into clinical practice.

2. The lack of full funding for most psyD programs versus the more available funding for phD programs. I know that the top 4 psyD programs that happen to reside in the north eastern US offer fully funded programs, but even if I *could* get into one, I'm not sure if I would want to move to the NE coast solely because my boyfriend would have a hard time finding work there. The one psyD program I'm interested at DU, doesn't seem to offer any or only very minimal financial aid-nor would my boyfriend be able to find work there either probably.

3. Touched on in number two, but my boyfriend has a good job in the CA city where we now live. If I am able to get into the phD program here in/near our city (there are no reputable psyD programs near us), then we wouldn't be broke financially while I'm in school. HUGE CONSIDERATION.

4. The negative psyD stigma (even from a reputable university) concerns me for internship applications.

I would just go for a psyD program, except the lack of full funding for most really concerns me, along with how a lot of internship sites seem to have a stigma against psyD's from my understanding; it just seems it would make a lot more sense to go the phD route and make the most out of the research experience.

I'm more just concerned that I wouldn't be prepared to only do practice if I go the phD route rather than the psyD route.

So basically, I either want to plan for to get a phD at UCLA or go for a psyD at Denver University (We are from Colorado, I'd love to move back home again if my boyfriend could find work)

Yes, I am aware how bad it is to bank on only a couple schools, and I *DO* plan to have several back up school, but that's just where my goals are currently.

Currently, I am 23 and technically a freshmen starting at LACC this fall (I flunked my freshmen year straight out of HS, just didn't try/family drama/too many pets/worked too much. I had a 4.0 GPA in HS and did well in AP Stats and in general, so I know I have a chance if I buckle down and do it right this time). I have plenty of time to plan, but since the courses I take will be based on where I want to go for my 4 year university, I want to get things planned out now.

Also, I am in the process of trying to find a suicide hotline to volunteer with, and plan to find research volunteer opportunities at UCLA my freshmen year at LACC as well to start getting experience and a taste of what it's like. (..and to make myself a more competitive applicant for UCLA to transfer)

Thank you so much for any advice, sorry I wrote so much! I'm prone to writing a lot.

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[princesspeach2]

I just purchased the Insider's Guide to Graduate Clinical and Counseling Psychology Programs 2016 edition book, hopefully that will help.

 

[erg923]

I'm more just concerned that I wouldn't be prepared to only do practice if I go the phD route rather than the psyD route..

Your whole post can be boiled down to this concern...which is simply false, as well as somewhat short-sighted.

1. Clinical psychology phd programs are called clinical psychology programs for a reason. Of course they will prepare you to work with patients.

2. Practice is just not about practice. Practice is based on the science of psychology, and competent practice is based on knowing how to apply principles of psychological science to clinical phenomena and how to deconstruct research based or non research based interventions. These are things you need to learn, and hopefully want to learn if you want to be a actual psychologist as opposed to the half dozen other varieties of "psychotherapist." If you don't want to learn this aspect, then I would argue you don't really want to be a psychologist.

If you really want to do this, you are going to have to become more geographically flexible.

 

[WisNeuro]

Seriously, there are like a thousand of these threads, can we just make some kind of sticky? As erg said, do a quick search, there are a LOT of misconceptions about how things work in your post OP.

 

[princesspeach2]

Thank you for the response!

I guess I've just read so many things saying something along the lines of that it's basically pointless and a waste of time to pursue a phD if you have little desire to go into research or academia full time, and even read a few things where it said that psyD's will train you better to work with patients.

Thank you kindly for debunking that and letting me know that it's false.

As for your second concern, I do actually want to learn those things. I just wanted to make it clear that I didn't want to do mostly research with seeing clients on the side sort of scenario as a lot of people do. I understand that research plays an important role in psychology, and realize that I wouldn't be pushing research out of my life after I would graduate school. I know it would be incorporated in my life in some way since it's such an integral part of being a psychologist and how new information is brought to the profession, I'm 100% okay with that and excited about what I could learn from it.

To reiterate, I'm not against research, I just don't want it to be my main focus. I'm okay with doing it and applying it, along with staying up to date.

Yes, I am realizing that the whole geography aspects I'll need to be more flexible on. Once I reach the point where I'm applying for grad schools, I do plan to apply to ones outside my target cities/states, and base off where I apply off of the faculty and their research interests, along with funding (along with internship match rates, EPPP? pass rates, etc.).

I do apologize if this has been asked before seeking the exact information I was seeking, I was able to find similar posts, but not the exact information I was after for my situation. (I found ones with people who didn't want to do any research at all, even in grad school, and several that showed a negative stigma towards psyD programs (not just for the diploma mills, which is expected) even on these boards.)

{In case anyone is wondering, when I went to college the first time, I was going with the goal to be a veterinarian. I had shadowed a vet, volunteered at the animal shelter, interviewed other vets, etc. I thought it was the PERFECT career for me, and I had wanted to be a vet since I was like 10. After I was in college though, I started working as a vet assistant and realized I COULD NOT stomach causing animals physical pain, even if I was helping them. I loved learning about the different diseases, treatments, how their bodies worked, body parts, etc. I just couldn't go past causing them pain-even something minor like trimming their nails and nipping the quick.)

With this new information, do you think a psyD or phD program would be a better choice for me, or would it make more sense to apply/plan for both?

I really am just trying to make sure I don't screw anything up so I can prepare, prepare, and prepare! I can't express how excited I am to go back to school, nor my enthusiasm for learning about psychology. I haven't felt this way about any career path before, even though I know it's a very hard and grueling path, I'm just really excited. I'm excited to learn how to conduct research to learn how to apply stats, just everything. It's all really fascinating to me. I don't think I can possibly convey this new found motivation and enthusiasm. I went from reading articles on buzzfeed to the Standford Prison Experiment by Zimbardo in my spare time. I went from watching netflix and being on social media for mindless hours to focusing on researching graduate schools, different fields in psychology, etc with a show on just for background noise.

After 5 years of procrastination, I had set up my orientation and assessment testing. I

When I first realized that psychology might be a good career about a year ago, I thought I wanted to mainly just work as a marriage counselor, or with social services for kids.

After spending many nights and days looking more into the field of psychology, I realized that I would rather work with more severe things, and that evolved into wanting to pursue clinical psychology.

I further looked into specialties inside clinical psychology, and stumbled on neuropsychology. I super excited about learning how to use all the fancy technical medical equipment to run tests and gather information about the brain, and just really fascinated by it.

I've been stuck on neuropsych for over 6 months now.

My CC guidance counselor didn't have the answers- she told me to look it up online basically, and my parents (well my mom) think it's pointless for me to even think about grad school right now (since it's so far off). I know that's not true though, as everyone says the sooner you plan, the better prepared you can be.

Thank you again for reading, and for anymore responses. I'm really not trying to be annoying, I just was stuck and couldn't find what I was looking for.

 

[PsyDr]

You're jumping the gun, bullets, a few textbooks on ballistics, and some other hyperbole.

You are in freshman year and have had academic problems. You'd be well served on focusing on your current academics, not where you want to go to grad school.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

You're jumping the gun, bullets, a few textbooks on ballistics, and some other hyperbole.

You are in freshman year and have had academic problems. You'd be well served on focusing on your current academics, not where you want to go to grad school.

Agreed. If after 2ish years you have a 3.5+ GPA, have learned more about grad school training, and have taken classes in research and statistics…then re-visiting this area could be helpful. For more general information about doctoral training in psych: http://psychologygradschool.weebly.com

 

[deleted343839]

I think you should consider a Ph.D. in clinical psychology, though definitely give yourself the time and space to consider other options as you continue your studies. This web site has some helpful information - http://clinicalpsychgradschool.org/ - although I think it oversells the idea that Ph.D. = academic. Most psychologists in clinical practice have a Ph.D.!

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Agreed. If after 2ish years you have a 3.5+ GPA, have learned more about grad school training, and have taken classes in research and statistics…then re-visiting this area could be helpful. For more general information about doctoral training in psych: http://psychologygradschool.weebly.com

Agreed. Although I'd say that it's never necessarily to early to get involved with psych research. See if there are any professors at your school who are doing research that looks interesting to you and are taking volunteers to work as research assistants. This usually works out to a few hours per week.

The caveat being that before doing so, be sure you can handle your current course load and do well academically.

 

[princesspeach2]

Okay, thanks for all the advice. I'll wait til after 2 years so I can prove to everyone that I can handle the academics, gain research experience, etc. to post anything else.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Okay, thanks for all the advice. I'll wait til after 2 years so I can prove to everyone that I can handle the academics, gain research experience, etc. to post anything else.

Oh, certainly feel free to post in the mean time, particularly if you have any questions that pop up along the way.

 

[smalltownpsych]

Okay, thanks for all the advice. I'll wait til after 2 years so I can prove to everyone that I can handle the academics, gain research experience, etc. to post anything else.

It is never too early to start asking the questions, but it can be too late so keep on asking. As I was pursuing my academic goals, I always seemed to find out information a little late or sometimes just barely in the nick of time. I would have loved to have known about SDN back in the dark days of my early undergrad when I was a lowly community college student with a low GPA and a dream of being a psychologist. Heck, I didn't really even know what one was back then.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

I would have loved to have known about SDN back in the dark days of my early undergrad when I was a lowly community college student with a low GPA and a dream of being a psychologist. Heck, I didn't really even know what one was back then.

I don't know when the Clinical Psych forum started, maybe early 2000s? I took over as mod late 2006, though I think I lurked for about a year before I joined. I don't believe it existed when I was looking in the late 90s/early 00s.

Well...*that* walk down fuzzy memory lane made me feel old.

--

I cheated and looked, July 1st, 2003.

 

[smalltownpsych]

I don't know when the Clinical Psych forum started, maybe early 2000s? I took over as mod late 2006, though I think I lurked for about a year before I joined. I don't believe it existed when I was looking in the late 90s/early 00s.

Well...*that* walk down fuzzy memory lane made me feel old.

--

I cheated and looked, July 1st, 2003.

That is the year I started my doctoral program so too late to help me much.

 

[WisNeuro]

Man, you guys are old. Were you both on your university's Hoop and Stick teams?

 

[PsyDr]

I remember writing papers before articles were online. And before most grad programs had web pages. I also remember when Sdn got started. Signed up after the VA blocked ESPN.com.

 

[smalltownpsych]

Man, you guys are old. Were you both on your university's Hoop and Stick teams?

You want to hear old? My first ever research paper was done on a Royal typewriter. Those were the days when cut and paste meant scissors and glue.

 

[WisNeuro]

I remember writing papers before articles were online. And before most grad programs had web pages. I also remember when Sdn got started. Signed up after the VA blocked ESPN.com.

They blocked that, but yahoo is still good, so I can still get all my fantasy sports in on my "lunch hour."

 

[WisNeuro]

You want to hear old? My first ever research paper was done on a Royal typewriter. Those were the days when cut and paste meant scissors and glue.

Do you still know the Dewey Decimal System?

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Do you still know the Dewey Decimal System?

I crushed it!

 

[PsyDr]

Do you still know the Dewey Decimal System?

You mean, "where is 150?" (I.e., the Dewey decimal prefix for psychology).

 

[Wendi22]

Okay, thanks for all the advice. I'll wait til after 2 years so I can prove to everyone that I can handle the academics, gain research experience, etc. to post anything else.

I wish I had started asking questions and researching earlier. I did not start until the end of my junior year of undergrad. I had so many misconceptions and was sometimes worried about asking questions because like most people.... I had some bumps along the way. Also, sometimes when people have been in the field for a while it all feels like common sense or second nature but starting out there is soooo much to learn and it can feel overwhelming. Also, I think there are many people on here (including me) who have previously interviewed/ been accepted to a program or two you listed so keep reading old threads and posting new questions!

 

[deleted760483]

Hello everyone!

Whole lot of negative nellies in this thread. I didn't do well my first 2 years in undergrad. I received my doctorate last year, didn't relocate at any point. I also mainly wanted to practice and despite the additional time and money investment I'm still glad I went for my doctorate. The additional training in biology, neurology, and testing in particular have been huge for me.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Whole lot of negative nellies in this thread. I didn't do well my first 2 years in undergrad. I received my doctorate last year, didn't relocate at any point. I also mainly wanted to practice and despite the additional time and money investment I'm still glad I went for my doctorate. The additional training in biology, neurology, and testing in particular have been huge for me.

1. APA-acred program & internship?
2. What about post-doc/fellowship? Did you find a formalized program option or did you get hours on your own?
3. Did you make any compromises w access to training, cost, etc?

It's great when it works for ppl, but it's just not the norm. A decent % of ppl have more flexibility be post-doc, but it's hard prior to that to do without sacrificing something.

-Realistic Rick

 

[deleted760483]

1. APA-acred program & internship?
2. What about post-doc/fellowship? Did you find a formalized program option or did you get hours on your own?
3. Did you make any compromises w access to training, cost, etc?

It's great when it works for ppl, but it's just not the norm. A decent % of ppl have more flexibility be post-doc, but it's hard prior to that to do without sacrificing something.

-Realistic Rick

1. Program yes, internship no.
2. A previous practicum site offered me a fellowship position a few months into my pre-doctoral internship and I loved working there so I accepted and never applied anywhere else. They had verbally offered me the position before I even left for internship based on my work there.
3. Not totally sure what you mean here.

The key ingredient for me was building relationships with clinics and treatment centers in the area I wanted to live while I was in school. I specifically sought out practicum experiences at places I could see myself working long-term.

 

[deleted760483]

And I apologize if I came off poorly. It's just that a lot of responses in this thread strike a nerve for me. I heard that my grades weren't good enough, that I'd have to move, etc. In the end I stuck with my plan and everything worked. I know it's not a guarantee but it's certainly not impossible.