Should I go for a Post-Bacc or DO? Or just give up medical school?

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Prince Aladdin

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My stats are terrible:
My UGPA right now is roughly a 2.6. I am finishing up the second semester of my junior year stronger than any of my previous years, expecting A+'s on all of my finals. I finally developed great study habits and am expecting to be able to translate them into 4.0 for the next 2 semesters. If so, I will end with exactly a 3.0.
I had a medical issue late in high school. As a result I was unable to take many classes and no AP's late in high school. This put me at a disadvantage at my difficult top-20 University. I struggled in math and chem freshman year and got poor grades. Tried to make up for it next year by taking a heavy load but I was too headstrong and took too hard of a load, resulting in poor grades again. Also, because of my ailment, I was never able to establish a social life in high school and once I was better in college, I got distracted by finally being able to have a social life. Now in the waning moments of my Junior Year I have established those study habits that most kids came into university with.

My EC's are not bad:
Clinical: Estimated 1000+ hours as an EMT. 100+ from a hospital and another club.
Volunteer: 400+ hours combined from campus clubs like animal shelters and disaster preparedness groups.
Research: Essentially none. I got interviews for a couple but my low GPA always hurt me.
Leadership: 2 years with a campus club.
I can get shadowing experience any time, but not sure if it will do me any good now.
I also played a sport for my university for one year. I did not get into the school for a sport however.

My question is, should I go for that 4.0 senior year to end with a 3.0, then apply to SMPs and Post-baccs, or should I retake some classes that I got C's in and then apply to a DO with around a 3.3? I read that retaking classes at a CC after I graduate wont help because classes won't be calculated into you UGPA. Will SMP/Post-bacc be a good option? I read that those programs allow you to add courses to your UGPA but if that is the case, I would need to take ~200 units with a 4.0 to even get a 3.5.

I read an MCAT prep book over last winter break and studied from it 8+ hours a day. My first shot at the a practice MCAT yielded a 36 after only about 2.5 months of study. I am confident I can raise it.

Or should I just go to Paramedic School and give up becoming a doctor?

Also, my friend is in the same predicament as me, but with a 2.9.

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My stats are terrible:
My UGPA right now is roughly a 2.6. I am finishing up the second semester of my junior year stronger than any of my previous years, expecting A+'s on all of my finals. I finally developed great study habits and am expecting to be able to translate them into 4.0 for the next 2 semesters. If so, I will end with exactly a 3.0.
I had a medical issue late in high school. As a result I was unable to take many classes and no AP's late in high school. This put me at a disadvantage at my difficult top-20 University. I struggled in math and chem freshman year and got poor grades. Tried to make up for it next year by taking a heavy load but I was too headstrong and took too hard of a load, resulting in poor grades again. Also, because of my ailment, I was never able to establish a social life in high school and once I was better in college, I got distracted by finally being able to have a social life. Now in the waning moments of my Junior Year I have established those study habits that most kids came into university with.

My EC's are not bad:
Clinical: Estimated 1000+ hours as an EMT. 100+ from a hospital and another club.
Volunteer: 400+ hours combined from campus clubs like animal shelters and disaster preparedness groups.
Research: Essentially none. I got interviews for a couple but my low GPA always hurt me.
Leadership: 2 years with a campus club.
I can get shadowing experience any time, but not sure if it will do me any good now.
I also played a sport for my university for one year. I did not get into the school for a sport however.

My question is, should I go for that 4.0 senior year to end with a 3.0, then apply to SMPs and Post-baccs, or should I retake some classes that I got C's in and then apply to a DO with around a 3.3? I read that retaking classes at a CC after I graduate wont help because classes won't be calculated into you UGPA. Will SMP/Post-bacc be a good option? I read that those programs allow you to add courses to your UGPA but if that is the case, I would need to take ~200 units with a 4.0 to even get a 3.5.

I read an MCAT prep book over last winter break and studied from it 8+ hours a day. My first shot at the a practice MCAT yielded a 36 after only about 2.5 months of study. I am confident I can raise it.

Or should I just go to Paramedic School and give up becoming a doctor?

Also, my friend is in the same predicament as me, but with a 2.9.

I'm sort of in the same position that you are. There are plenty of people on this forum that can guide you in what you need to do to be successful, but if medicine is what you want to do, then you definitely don't need to give up. A 36 MCAT and 3.3 gpa with a strong academic turnaround will be competitive for DO schools, and maybe even some MDs (especially if these stats are supplemented by a strong post bac or SMP performance).
 
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So you may have read some of this around, and yes, postbacs can bring you back up, granted you go lights out on them. Also, do more activities such as volutneering at a hospital and interacting with patients. (Key point: interact, don't do procedures- a lot of premeds make the folly that we're going to be way more impressed if you can draw blood or do an EKG: we're not.) Usually those who have strong patient interactions and enjoy them, will continue to come back to interact with patients. Those who don't, or who are antisocial, or just don't have any empathy for a person who is sick, well, won't. It's usually a self-selecting group. But being inthe position you are with your academics, its probably a good idea to buff up the other areas of your app, and also go lights out on the postbac.
 
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Do you think my application is strong enough for a postbac? Should I still retake classes if I am applying for a postbac? How strict are the postbac GPA requirements? I won't have a 3.0 until I get a 4.0 both semesters of senior year (which I am confident I can do). Most SMPs require a 3.0 so does this mean I will have to take a year off?
 
What if I just get all A's both semesters of senior year and take a year off to work more as an EMT and improve my MCAT further. Then I could apply with a couple thousand hours of clinical experience, a 3.0 GPA, and possibly a 40+ MCAT. Would that not get me in somewhere?

Aren't SMPs only to show you can handle rigorous work? If I get a 4.0 senior year, isn't that enough? Would an SMP really help that much?

Or is it recommended to take classes during that year off? Isn't it the case where once you obtain your BS, all classes you take after that, at a CC or not, no longer factor into you undergraduate GPA?
 
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Two semesters of As won't cut it. For MD schools, you'll need two years of aceing coursework, and ace MCAT as well.

Do you realize that a 40 MCAT is like the 98th percentile? Please restrain from magic thinking. The average MCAT score is ~25-26, and for for MD matriculants it's 31 (high 20s for DO).

Here's the deal: the fastest way to be a doctor will be to retake all F/D/C science coursework, and go DO.

IF you're boning for that MD degree, then yes, do a post-bac or SMP, ace it, and MCAT as well. You can do the former DIY. And yes, with a 3.0 or even in the high 2's, you can get into a postbac/SMP. They're a dime-a-dozen, really.

What if I just get all A's both semesters of senior year and take a year off to work more as an EMT and improve my MCAT further. Then I could apply with a couple thousand hours of clinical experience, a 3.0 GPA, and possibly a 40+ MCAT. Would that not get me in somewhere?

Aren't SMPs only to show you can handle rigorous work? If I get a 4.0 senior year, isn't that enough? Would an SMP really help that much?

Or is it recommended to take classes during that year off? Isn't it the case where once you obtain your BS, all classes you take after that, at a CC or not, no longer factor into you undergraduate GPA?
 
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Thank you for your response.

I scored a 36 on my one and only practice MCAT. That was just from 2.5 months of studying and I plan on studying much more before I actually test. I only hope that will translate to a higher MCAT. I agree with you that I should be realistic and assume my 36 is what I have to work with, if not less.

I have not F or D classes.
Would you happen to know if SMPs accept retakes as well? If not, would a 3.0 not suffice for application to DO schools?
Also, can I get your opinion on how much an SMP would help someone like me? Assuming I ace the SMP, finish undergrad with a 3.0, and get a 36 on the MCAT, with my ECs, which MDs or DOs would I be looking at?

Thanks again for your reply.


Two semesters of As won't cut it. For MD schools, you'll need two years of aceing coursework, and ace MCAT as well.

Do you realize that a 40 MCAT is like the 98th percentile? Please restrain from magic thinking. The average MCAT score is ~25-26, and for for MD matriculants it's 31 (high 20s for DO).

Here's the deal: the fastest way to be a doctor will be to retake all F/D/C science coursework, and go DO.

IF you're boning for that MD degree, then yes, do a post-bac or SMP, ace it, and MCAT as well. You can do the former DIY. And yes, with a 3.0 or even in the high 2's, you can get into a postbac/SMP. They're a dime-a-dozen, really.
 
Just curious, I'm not actually going to do this, but let us say theoretically I graduated with a 3.0, all my ECs, and a 36 MCAT. If I took like 4 years off and took community college courses, getting 4.0's, became a paramedic for a few years, and raised my MCAT to 40+ after studying for those 4 years. What would I be looking at?
 
I mean it's a thought experiment. We could go all day on them, but I don't see any value. We could make a thought experiment of an mcat of 41, or 42, or 43, or 44. but what's the point?
Do you want to do one on 36 instead? (I hope you understand my sarcasm here) I think you need to do the best you can and see where it takes you. You can set goals, but honestly your goals are not what determines where you apply, and where you get in. Ultimately, its the numbers you actually have.

Do you think during an interview, people share their 'goal' of "Well Dr. XYZ, I wanted a 44 on my mcat, but i didn't get it...I was wishing i had a 3.9 but only a 3.8." No, you focus on what you have when you're applying. so do your best and bring them up as high as you can. If you need to set a goal because you're a concrete thinker, then here's one: 4.0 everything, and get a 45 on the mcat. simple.

Otherwise, I think you need to create and focus on practical goals that are within reason. studying the mcat for 4 years is often not done by many. (no, its not that everyone is a wimp and can't do it) It is likely that you will have marginal gains in studying for it that long for that period of time.

the TLDR version of this is: You can make it if you hustle and work hard. But now that you know that, less talking/theoretics and more doing it will get you there.
 
But what should I do at this point. Obviously I am going to work for that 4.0 senior year. But after that, should I apply straight to DO, SMP, a low MD? Or should I take a year off and do CC courses to raise my undergraduate GPA? Or get a second Bachelors? Or a Masters? Or become a paramedic?

With a 3.0, 36 MCAT, I should be roughly competitive for DO and lower MD shouldn't I?
 
None that I know of.

Would you happen to know if SMPs accept retakes as well?

Yes, but you'll have ot apply broadly, especially to the newer schools.
If not, would a 3.0 not suffice for application to DO schools?

SMPs are auditions for med school. They're tailor made exactly for students like you.
Also, can I get your opinion on how much an SMP would help someone like me?

ANY DO school, your state school, the newer MD schools, the lower tiers, like Risy Franklin, Albany, or NYMC, and even some upper tier schools reward reinvention, like Case, BU, Duke, Dartmouth, Vandy and Columbia.
Assuming I ace the SMP, finish undergrad with a 3.0, and get a 36 on the MCAT, with my ECs, which MDs or DOs would I be looking at?
 
But what should I do at this point. Obviously I am going to work for that 4.0 senior year. But after that, should I apply straight to DO, SMP, a low MD? Or should I take a year off and do CC courses to raise my undergraduate GPA? Or get a second Bachelors? Or a Masters? Or become a paramedic?

With a 3.0, 36 MCAT, I should be roughly competitive for DO and lower MD shouldn't I?
I don't know what "low MD" means but unless you do an SMP, you will not be competitive for any MD schools with those stats. If there is anything else that you would be happy doing besides medicine, then you should go do that. GPA redemption will take several years for you, will be very expensive, and there are no guarantees you will get in; this includes the DO route. That being said, if you really want to go to medical school, it is possible. Good luck
 
None that I know of.

Would you happen to know if SMPs accept retakes as well?

Yes, but you'll have ot apply broadly, especially to the newer schools.
If not, would a 3.0 not suffice for application to DO schools?

SMPs are auditions for med school. They're tailor made exactly for students like you.
Also, can I get your opinion on how much an SMP would help someone like me?

ANY DO school, your state school, the newer MD schools, the lower tiers, like Risy Franklin, Albany, or NYMC, and even some upper tier schools reward reinvention, like Case, BU, Duke, Dartmouth, Vandy and Columbia.
Assuming I ace the SMP, finish undergrad with a 3.0, and get a 36 on the MCAT, with my ECs, which MDs or DOs would I be looking at?

Great. I will remember that and update once I finish my senior year and again after my MCAT. Thank you.
 
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I don't know what "low MD" means but unless you do an SMP, you will not be competitive for any MD schools with those stats. If there is anything else that you would be happy doing besides medicine, then you should go do that. GPA redemption will take several years for you, will be very expensive, and there are no guarantees you will get in; this includes the DO route. That being said, if you really want to go to medical school, it is possible. Good luck

I will definitely pursue an SMP later, if I am able to accomplish a 4.0 senior year and achieve a good MCAT score.

Why will GPA redemption be expensive? Can I not take classes at a CC, which should not be too expensive?
 
I will definitely pursue an SMP later, if I am able to accomplish a 4.0 senior year and achieve a good MCAT score.

Why will GPA redemption be expensive? Can I not take classes at a CC, which should not be too expensive?
SMPs hover around 50k
 
SMPs hover around 50k

That's fine. I think I have it all worked out. Can someone critique me?

The plan, now that I have figured out my mojo so to speak, it to graduate with a 4.0 senior year and a cGPA of 3.0. I will begin studying for the MCAT now, and take it a year after I graduate. Hoping for that 36 again or higher. Take CC courses straight out of senior year for 1 year to raise my GPA to a 3.2. Also, straight out of my current university, I want to jump to Paramedic School (something I have always wanted to do). Then, apply to an SMP program with my 3.2. Continue to work as a Paramedic while doing so. Go through the SMP to completion and then apply to medical school.

This will be roughly 3 years off and will yield a 3.2-3.3 GPA, 36+ MCAT, 2 years of paramedic and one of EMT (3000+ clinical hours). 500+ volunteer hours. A sport in college. A 2 year leadership position. Multiple clubs and volunteer affiliations. A strong finish to college, upward trending near the end. An aced SMP. What I consider to be an educational disadvantage coming into college (medical issues late in high school prevented me from acquiring good study habits and heavy work loads). Maybe I will look for some research as well.

What do you think?

For now, it is up to me to get that 4.0 senior year. I cannot accomplish the rest of this plan without that. I will keep you guys updated. Thanks for the help by the way!
 
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That's fine. I think I have it all worked out. Can someone critique me?

The plan, now that I have figured out my mojo so to speak, it to graduate with a 4.0 senior year and a cGPA of 3.0. I will begin studying for the MCAT now, and take it a year after I graduate. Hoping for that 36 again or higher. Take CC courses straight out of senior year for 1 year to raise my GPA to a 3.2. Also, straight out of my current university, I want to jump to Paramedic School (something I have always wanted to do). Then, apply to an SMP program with my 3.2. Continue to work as a Paramedic while doing so. Go through the SMP to completion and then apply to medical school.

This will be roughly 3 years off and will yield a 3.2-3.3 GPA, 36+ MCAT, 2 years of paramedic and one of EMT (3000+ clinical hours). 500+ volunteer hours. A sport in college. A 2 year leadership position. Multiple clubs and volunteer affiliations. A strong finish to UC Berkeley, upward trending near the end. An aced SMP. What I consider to be an educational disadvantage coming into college (medical issues late in high school prevented me from acquiring good study habits and heavy work loads). Maybe I will look for some research as well.

What do you think?

For now, it is up to me to get that 4.0 senior year. I cannot accomplish the rest of this plan without that. I will keep you guys updated. Thanks for the help by the way!
Sounds good. I would put as much emphasis on the MCAT as possible. Getting less than a 30 will be a death stroke to your application. Also, your road will be more difficult than most because you are from Ca.
 
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I am not clear on CC.

Will it be added into my UGPA? Or would it be calculated separately? And will it help to have CC because I keep hearing that it will not look good because CC work is supposedly not as difficult?

Would it not be better to simply apply to an SMP straight out of college with a 3.0 35 ish MCAT instead of taking a year of CC courses?

Also, this is a weird idea, but could I not apply to a DO and then after 1 year of successful DO, apply to an MD?
Or can I just complete a DO program completely and then come back later and do an MD. Would having a DO help me get into an MD? I know its not exactly smart, but I have always wanted both degrees. And a few others ;)

I think I am leaning toward a DO at this point. I know I am capable of medical school coursework, that I am confident in. Is it feasible for me to just apply to a DO with a 3.0 and 35+ MCAT. And then years down the line if I still want to, come back for an MD? What do you think my chances of a DO are? In California especially.

Sorry, I am just trying to figure out my life. :(
 
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If you are committed to becoming a doctor, please consider Howard Med and Meharry, they are lenient with stats given you have CLEAR committment to serving the disadvantaged and to primary care. They're also cool and very diverse.
 
Ugh I'm back to taking a few years off and then shooting for a reinventer school. If acing senior year, making up my faults in CC, acing an SMP, scoring well on the MCAT, and becoming a paramedic do not get me into a good medical school, then I will just take whatever I can get at that point.

Honestly it's unrealistic, but one of the UC's is the goal after all that.
 
I don't think a CC is going to cut it for the UC's. This is totally just speculation on my part. But with your stats I would start looking at OOS schools, even if you ace the SMP. Also, you might want to consider a university postbacc to make yourself more competitve for the "true" SMPs (Georgetown, EVMS, etc.) Individuals with 3.0 GPAs do get into those programs, but more are rejected and waitlisted (you can head over to their forums now and see for yourself.) Howard and meharry are HBC's, you won't fit their mission statement at all. I strongly suggest considering going DO.
Ugh I'm back to taking a few years off and then shooting for a reinventer school. If acing senior year, making up my faults in CC, acing an SMP, scoring well on the MCAT, and becoming a paramedic do not get me into a good medical school, then I will just take whatever I can get at that point.

Honestly it's unrealistic, but one of the UC's is the goal after all that.
 
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Even if I do all that I plan to, you don't think any MD would take me? I would not want to take a year off just to go to a DO.

What would it take for me to get into a UC?
 
Even if I do all that I plan to, you don't think any MD would take me? I would not want to take a year off just to go to a DO.

What would it take for me to get into a UC?
I didn't say that. What I said is that there are no guarantees you will get into an MD. You might get into a UC, but you will never be competitive for one. The UCs are super competitve and regularly reject 3.8/35 applicants. As for not wanting to take a year off to go DO, if you want to be a physician more than you want the title then you will; a sub 3.0 GPA is a problem for DO schools as well. The most important thing to understand is that you don't get to dictate the terms of your redemption.

Cheers
 
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I am sorry that I am so persistent. I wish things were different. I was wrecked by the medical condition that manifested my senior year of high school. I came into college well behind the curve and I was bested by my peers. Sophomore year I tried to make up for my struggles freshman year by taking on a heavy load but I collapsed under the weight of those classes. Only now in my junior year have I regained the form that got me into college in the first place. I have studied relentlessly over this last third of the semester and am expecting to be the curve setter for both my immunology and genetics finals (only 9 other students are taking both of these concurrently). I have no doubt in my mind I that I will get a 4.0 senior year and set the curves for those classes. I sincerely believe I would ace any SMP out there and am 100% confident in my ability to perform in medical school. I have no doubt in my mind that I can score 40+ on the MCAT. My ECs are not stunning, but they are not average either, and they demonstrate my passion for health.

Is there really little hope for a medical school like UCLA? UCSF?
Is my GPA really the thing holding me back?
If that is the case, if my GPA is truly the only thing holding me back, why would an SMP not demonstrate that my GPA was a product of unfortunate circumstance?

I know I sound like every other low-GPA bargaining student. But I truly believe that I am an anomaly because of misfortune. I know that I am capable of a 4.0, I just can't take away the first few years of lower GPA.

What if I forget paramedic school to stay in college for an extra semester or year and get another year of 4.0. That would yield me a 3.22 overall with 2 years of 4.0.

I am desperate yes. I will do anything to prevent this from slipping away from me. I've already been stripped of enough of my life from that medical issue. I don't want to let me dream slip from me again.

If you truly recommend DO, then I will consider it. But I do not think I would be happy unless I got into an MD.

I'm guessing transferring medical schools is not possible.

I am really sorry for dabbling in hypotheticals, but any guidance would be appreciated.
 
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I don't even know how to respond to you. Have you just joined SDN? Perhaps if you read some of the school
Specific threads you'll see what people are trying to tell you. It seems that you are having a very hard time accepting the facts. There are probably thousands of applicants that only want UCLA or UCSF. Have you checked their admission stats? Have you bought the MSAR yet? Have you used it to get information? There is no guarantee that you will get a 36+ or whatever the new score is on the MCAT. There is no guarantee that you will get a 4.0 for the next 2 semesters. Your ECs are okay but there are hundreds of applicants with better. Your projected GPA of 3.0 is very low for DO and lethal for MD. You have to come to terms with your situation before you can take the next steps to make the best plans to meet your goals.
 
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I am sorry that I am so persistent. I wish things were different. I was wrecked by the medical condition that manifested my senior year of high school. I came into UC Berkeley well behind the curve and I was bested by my peers. Sophomore year I tried to make up for my struggles freshman year by taking on a heavy load but I collapsed under the weight of those classes. Only now in my junior year have I regained the form that got me into UC Berkeley in the first place. I have studied relentlessly over this last third of the semester and am expecting to be the curve setter for both my immunology and genetics finals (only 9 other students are taking both of these concurrently). I have no doubt in my mind I that I will get a 4.0 senior year and set the curves for those classes. I sincerely believe I would ace any SMP out there and am 100% confident in my ability to perform in medical school. I have no doubt in my mind that I can score 40+ on the MCAT. My ECs are not stunning, but they are not average either, and they demonstrate my passion for health.

Is there really little hope for a medical school like UCLA? UCSF?
Is my GPA really the thing holding me back?
If that is the case, if my GPA is truly the only thing holding me back, why would an SMP not demonstrate that my GPA was a product of unfortunate circumstance?

I know I sound like every other low-GPA bargaining student. But I truly believe that I am an anomaly because of misfortune. I know that I am capable of a 4.0, I just can't take away the first few years of lower GPA.

What if I forget paramedic school to stay at UC Berkeley for an extra semester or year and get another year of 4.0. That would yield me a 3.22 overall with 2 years of 4.0.

I am desperate yes. I will do anything to prevent this from slipping away from me. I've already been stripped of enough of my life from that medical issue. I don't want to let me dream slip from me again.

If you truly recommend DO, then I will consider it. But I do not think I would be happy unless I got into at least UCLA.

I'm guessing transferring medical schools is not possible.

I am really sorry for dabbling in hypotheticals, but any guidance would be appreciated.
Let me say that you shouldn't take anything any posters say as scripture, including me.
"I have no doubt in my mind I that I will get a 4.0 senior year and set the curves for those classes. I sincerely believe I would ace any SMP out there and am 100% confident in my ability to perform in medical school. I have no doubt in my mind that I can score 40+ on the MCAT. My ECs are not stunning, but they are not average either, and they demonstrate my passion for health."
I don't doubt you are an exemplary student, and you probably will do very well your senior year. Plenty of 4.0 students get <35 on the MCAT, so it is presumptuous for you to have "no doubt in your mind" that you will get more than a 40. The vast majority of test takers do not hit this number.
"Is there really little hope for a medical school like UCLA? UCSF?"
No hope? No. It's possible but very unlikely, especially UCSF. Don't use the one guy who got into UCSF with a low GPA (and by low I mean anything less than 3.5) as your standard.
"Is my GPA really the thing holding me back?"
Yes. Your UG GPA will never disappear, it's the nature of such a highly competitive process. Even if an ADCOM sympathized with your situation, s/he may say "why should I bother with him when we have an army of high GPA/MCAT students?
"I know I sound like every other low-GPA bargaining student. But I truly believe that I am an anomaly because of misfortune. I know that I am capable of a 4.0, I just can't take away the first few years of lower GPA."
I have no doubt of that, but you are not as much of an anomaly as you think. There are plenty of applicants who went through worst circumstances, and were still able to perform academically.
"What if I forget paramedic school to stay at UC Berkeley for an extra semester or year and get another year of 4.0. That would yield me a 3.22 overall with 2 years of 4.0."
Anything you can do to raise your undergrad GPA should be your priority
"If you truly recommend DO, then I will consider it. But I do not think I would be happy unless I got into at least UCLA."
Then you should do something else. I don't mean to be discouraging but you need to ask yourself what your goals are here. Your standards are way too high considering the position you are in. If your goal is to be a physician (MD or DO), then you can achieve that if you give it your all. I recommend you apply to both MD and DO; be realistic about what your options are. Since you are from Ca you will have to finish the SMP before you apply, meaning you will take multiple gap years. If you ace the SMP you will be competitive for some Ca MD schools, and some schools nationwide. But you still may end up having to go DO, even after doing all that. Be sure that you are okay with the risk before you make such a commitment.
"I'm guessing transferring medical schools is not possible."
You are getting into desperate territory. I literally know one person, who was the top of his class, who transferred from the Carribean to USC. That individual had a strong MCAT with a 3.4 GPA.
"I am really sorry for dabbling in hypotheticals, but any guidance would be appreciated."
You're fine, best of luck.
 
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The only CA MD school that has accepted transfers in the last 5 years is Loma Linda (and the transfers have all been from LCME schools). Before that there were a few transfers to private schools but none were from the Caribbean.
 
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Past performance is the best predictor of future performance. You clearly do not lack confidence in your abilities, but you have yet to demonstrate them. What you have managed to demonstrate in this thread however, is that you have an unwillingness to accept your current reality and a disturbing lack of humility.

The first step you should take down this path is to accept that you have taken 5-6 semesters of classes and have earned a 2.6. Sure, you had a rough start, but at a minimum you could have recognized you were not ready for school and taken time off. You need to learn from the mistakes you have made rather than doubling down on your confidence in your natural ability.

Your next step should be to think about why you want to go to medical school. I get the distinct impression that you are out to prove something thus the obsession with a prestigious MD program. Obviously there are certain advantages to attending a top school, but at the end of the day, whether you graduate from Yale or LECOM, you earn the privilege to help sick people.

Please do not forget that this profession is ultimately about serving others, and that you will have a profound impact on the lives of your future patients. Your ego is not the point.
 
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The only CA MD school that has accepted transfers in the last 5 years is Loma Linda (and the transfers have all been from LCME schools). Before that there were a few transfers to private schools but none were from the Caribbean.
Interesting...guess that makes that individual a liar. I should really stop giving people the benefit of the doubt.
 
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Interesting...guess that makes that individual a liar. I should really stop giving people the benefit of the doubt.
I feel so bad when I extinguish that feeling of trust.

I am told that there may still be east coast schools that accept Caribbean transfers, though...
Or maybe he filled an advanced residency position?
 
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I feel so bad when I extinguish that feeling of trust.

I am told that there may still be east coast schools that accept Caribbean transfers, though...
Or maybe he filled an advanced residency position?
I appreciate that gyngyn, but I probably needed the reality check. It is patently ridiculous upon further examination. "Yea I'm the top of my class at (Caribbean School), no big deal. USC offered me a full ride, I'll probably end up going into Neuro or plastics at one of the UC's for my residency." Damn my soft, trusting heart :smack:
 
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I appreciate that gyngyn, but I probably needed the reality check. It is patently ridiculous upon further examination. "Yea I'm the top of my class at (Caribbean School), no big deal. USC offered me a full ride, I'll probably end up going into Neuro or plastics at one of the UC's for my residency." Damn my soft, trusting heart :smack:
Oh yeah, that's a dead lie.
Their website has indicated that transfers have not been accepted for years and are still not accepted.
http://keck.usc.edu/About/Administr...MD_Admissions/Transfer_Admissions_Policy.aspx
 
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I feel so bad when I extinguish that feeling of trust.

I am told that there may still be east coast schools that accept Caribbean transfers, though...
Or maybe he filled an advanced residency position?
Ours runs around $20-25K. These programs are a dime-a-dozen, so one just needs to do homework, and be willing to relocate as well.
A dime in a dozen goro? Maybe my definition of an smp is too narrow, but I was under the impression there were really only a dozen or so reputable SMP's in the country. By "reputable" I mean they have admission rates into U.S. medical schools over 70% or so.
 
I just see the end result. Someone who gets a 3.9 in, say, Drexel's programs (yes, there are at least two of them), vs Western vs PCOM vs Rosy Franklin vs Georgetown...it doesn't matter. I want to see excellence.

If a medical school runs an SMP, and channels its students into that med school, I'd say that's pretty reputable, from Albany to Yale, from ACOM to Western (that's an alphabetical example...I have no idea how many schools actually run programs!)




A dime in a dozen goro? Maybe my definition of an smp is too narrow, but I was under the impression there were really only a dozen or so reputable SMP's in the country. By "reputable" I mean they have admission rates into U.S. medical schools over 70% or so.
 
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My stats are terrible:
My UGPA right now is roughly a 2.6. I am finishing up the second semester of my junior year stronger than any of my previous years, expecting A+'s on all of my finals. I finally developed great study habits and am expecting to be able to translate them into 4.0 for the next 2 semesters. If so, I will end with exactly a 3.0.
I had a medical issue late in high school. As a result I was unable to take many classes and no AP's late in high school. This put me at a disadvantage at my difficult top-20 University. I struggled in math and chem freshman year and got poor grades. Tried to make up for it next year by taking a heavy load but I was too headstrong and took too hard of a load, resulting in poor grades again. Also, because of my ailment, I was never able to establish a social life in high school and once I was better in college, I got distracted by finally being able to have a social life. Now in the waning moments of my Junior Year I have established those study habits that most kids came into university with.

My EC's are not bad:
Clinical: Estimated 1000+ hours as an EMT. 100+ from a hospital and another club.
Volunteer: 400+ hours combined from campus clubs like animal shelters and disaster preparedness groups.
Research: Essentially none. I got interviews for a couple but my low GPA always hurt me.
Leadership: 2 years with a campus club.
I can get shadowing experience any time, but not sure if it will do me any good now.
I also played a sport for my university for one year. I did not get into the school for a sport however.

My question is, should I go for that 4.0 senior year to end with a 3.0, then apply to SMPs and Post-baccs, or should I retake some classes that I got C's in and then apply to a DO with around a 3.3? I read that retaking classes at a CC after I graduate wont help because classes won't be calculated into you UGPA. Will SMP/Post-bacc be a good option? I read that those programs allow you to add courses to your UGPA but if that is the case, I would need to take ~200 units with a 4.0 to even get a 3.5.

I read an MCAT prep book over last winter break and studied from it 8+ hours a day. My first shot at the a practice MCAT yielded a 36 after only about 2.5 months of study. I am confident I can raise it.

Or should I just go to Paramedic School and give up becoming a doctor?

Also, my friend is in the same predicament as me, but with a 2.9.

Alright. I am back for an update.

First things first. I want to express my gratitude for everyone on this forum, especially those who have helped me cope with my weaknesses. I took some time off after I completed my last semester of junior year here at my university. I took some time off to reflect. I laid in bed for days on end to be truthful, and during that time all I could do was think about was my past, my present, and hope for a future.

After much internal reflection, I decided that it was time to move on. Move on from my past and though it will still hold sway over the rest of my life, I decided to leave it behind me.

My newly awakened self had my first test: summer school.
I enrolled in a class called Human Anatomy Lab. The class is not a weeder, but it is not a 'gimme' course either, supplying an average grade of a B to those willing to take it. I loved the class. And needless to say, I received my first 'A' since Fall Semester of my sophomore year. But this A was special for me because it was my first A in a non-'gimme' course. I proved to myself after some doubt, that I could do it. That I was smart enough.

Soon after that class, my life really got moving. I applied to a job at an ambulance company as an EMT-b and was very well received by the interviewer, who highly recommended me for the job before I had even completed two of my certifications (which were going to be done within the week). I am now looking at working 20 hours a week for the next 4 months, 360 hours total, before applying for an ER-tech position to compliment my job as an EMT during my year off. Moreover, I have applied to be an EMT as a children's summer camp at my university, an opportunity for my year off as well.

Then to my delight, and luck, I managed to secure a great research position in a laboratory on campus for at least the next year, though I am sure they will let me stay until I move out of the area. The lab does great work and it works closely with human samples on a physiological scale. The current research of the lab supervisor (my manager) is research into hepatitis C, while the labs Principal Investigator is beginning trials on a potential treatment for ALS. As my first project, I have been tasked with preparing and then analyzing glucose enrichment in blood samples from obese patients before and after a calorie restricted diet to examine trends.

Additionally, I have started practices for an NCAA sport that I tried out and made the team for.

Moreover, after much thought and discussion with school counselors, I have declared a Nutritional Science minor to supplement my Molecular and Cell Biology Major.

I left some minor things out. Nevertheless, this sums up my life in the last three months since I first posted. Now that everything has fallen into place, it is up to me to get that 4.0 both semesters of senior year to complete what is hopefully viewed as an impressive senior year.

I still plan to take at least one year off of school not only to work as an EMT, ER-Tech, Lab Researcher, and more. If all goes as planned, I will take community college courses as well, but will not be able to raise my GPA beyond a 3.0 by the time applications roll around.

If anyone has any comments, suggestions, critical feedback, or anything really, I would very much appreciate it.

Thanks for everything everyone. You all kept me sane while I was doubting the future of my life.
 
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Alright. I am back for an update.

First things first. I want to express my gratitude for everyone on this forum, especially those who have helped me cope with my weaknesses. I took some time off after I completed my last semester of junior year here at my university. I took some time off to reflect. I laid in bed for days on end to be truthful, and during that time all I could do was think about was my past, my present, and hope for a future.

After much internal reflection, I decided that it was time to move on. Move on from my past and though it will still hold sway over the rest of my life, I decided to leave it behind me.

My newly awakened self had my first test: summer school.
I enrolled in a class called Human Anatomy Lab. The class is not a weeder, but it is not a 'gimme' course either, supplying an average grade of a B to those willing to take it. I loved the class. And needless to say, I received my first 'A' since Fall Semester of my sophomore year. But this A was special for me because it was my first A in a non-'gimme' course. I proved to myself after some doubt, that I could do it. That I was smart enough.

Soon after that class, my life really got moving. I applied to a job at an ambulance company as an EMT-b and was very well received by the interviewer, who highly recommended me for the job before I had even completed two of my certifications (which were going to be done within the week). I am now looking at working 20 hours a week for the next 4 months, 360 hours total, before applying for an ER-tech position to compliment my job as an EMT during my year off. Moreover, I have applied to be an EMT as a children's summer camp at my university, an opportunity for my year off as well.

Then to my delight, and luck, I managed to secure a great research position in a laboratory on campus for at least the next year, though I am sure they will let me stay until I move out of the area. The lab does great work and it works closely with human samples on a physiological scale. The current research of the lab supervisor (my manager) is research into hepatitis C, while the labs Principal Investigator is beginning trials on a potential treatment for ALS. As my first project, I have been tasked with preparing and then analyzing glucose enrichment in blood samples from obese patients before and after a calorie restricted diet to examine trends.

Additionally, I have started practices for an NCAA sport that I tried out and made the team for.

Moreover, after much thought and discussion with school counselors, I have declared a Nutritional Science minor to supplement my Molecular and Cell Biology Major.

I left some minor things out. Nevertheless, this sums up my life in the last three months since I first posted. Now that everything has fallen into place, it is up to me to get that 4.0 both semesters of senior year to complete what is hopefully viewed as an impressive senior year.

I still plan to take at least one year off of school not only to work as an EMT, ER-Tech, Lab Researcher, and more. If all goes as planned, I will take community college courses as well, but will not be able to raise my GPA beyond a 3.0 by the time applications roll around.

If anyone has any comments, suggestions, critical feedback, or anything really, I would very much appreciate it.

Thanks for everything everyone. You all kept me sane while I was doubting the future of my life.

These activities are all well and good but what matters above all else is GPA GPA GPA. Doing all these activities takes time away from studying. You yourself said it this was your first A in a non gimme classe in a while. To start racking up more of them is going take a serious commitment. The A's are what will get you into med school. The other stuff is secondary. You can get into med school with A's and cutting back on that other stuff. You won't get into med school going all in on the EC's but coming away with medicore grades this year.

If you really do ace this year and can get around the lines of the 36 MCAT that you were talking about you had on your practice test on the real thing while I'm usually more hesitant than most to recommend SMPs I think you would be a good candidate for one. I'm not sure DIY post-bac work is going to bring up your GPA fast enough. Furthermore, a high MCAT combined with an upward trend in GPA(if you can pull it off HUGE if) is the type of person who can thrive in an SMP, particularly if they went to a hard school like the UC for undergrad. I don't have a great feel for the SMP timeline but if you want to go to one next year it is in your best interest to start at least thinking about how you will go about that application sooner rather than later and taking the MCAT at an appropriate time. If you plan on enrolling in an SMP next year and have to focus on the MCAT that gives even more incentive to not worry about all these EC's focus on your classes and spend other time studying for the MCAT.
 
Alright. I am back for an update.

First things first. I want to express my gratitude for everyone on this forum, especially those who have helped me cope with my weaknesses. I took some time off after I completed my last semester of junior year here at my university. I took some time off to reflect. I laid in bed for days on end to be truthful, and during that time all I could do was think about was my past, my present, and hope for a future.

After much internal reflection, I decided that it was time to move on. Move on from my past and though it will still hold sway over the rest of my life, I decided to leave it behind me.

My newly awakened self had my first test: summer school.
I enrolled in a class called Human Anatomy Lab. The class is not a weeder, but it is not a 'gimme' course either, supplying an average grade of a B to those willing to take it. I loved the class. And needless to say, I received my first 'A' since Fall Semester of my sophomore year. But this A was special for me because it was my first A in a non-'gimme' course. I proved to myself after some doubt, that I could do it. That I was smart enough.

Soon after that class, my life really got moving. I applied to a job at an ambulance company as an EMT-b and was very well received by the interviewer, who highly recommended me for the job before I had even completed two of my certifications (which were going to be done within the week). I am now looking at working 20 hours a week for the next 4 months, 360 hours total, before applying for an ER-tech position to compliment my job as an EMT during my year off. Moreover, I have applied to be an EMT as a children's summer camp at my university, an opportunity for my year off as well.

Then to my delight, and luck, I managed to secure a great research position in a laboratory on campus for at least the next year, though I am sure they will let me stay until I move out of the area. The lab does great work and it works closely with human samples on a physiological scale. The current research of the lab supervisor (my manager) is research into hepatitis C, while the labs Principal Investigator is beginning trials on a potential treatment for ALS. As my first project, I have been tasked with preparing and then analyzing glucose enrichment in blood samples from obese patients before and after a calorie restricted diet to examine trends.

Additionally, I have started practices for an NCAA sport that I tried out and made the team for.

Moreover, after much thought and discussion with school counselors, I have declared a Nutritional Science minor to supplement my Molecular and Cell Biology Major.

I left some minor things out. Nevertheless, this sums up my life in the last three months since I first posted. Now that everything has fallen into place, it is up to me to get that 4.0 both semesters of senior year to complete what is hopefully viewed as an impressive senior year.

I still plan to take at least one year off of school not only to work as an EMT, ER-Tech, Lab Researcher, and more. If all goes as planned, I will take community college courses as well, but will not be able to raise my GPA beyond a 3.0 by the time applications roll around.

If anyone has any comments, suggestions, critical feedback, or anything really, I would very much appreciate it.

Thanks for everything everyone. You all kept me sane while I was doubting the future of my life.
I'm glad to hear you're doing well. I'm not entirely sure what your goal is. Are you still gunning for an MD?
 
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It's good that you are getting your life back on track, that is great news. Focus on your classes as well and get as many A's as you can!
 
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Quick update:

There are 6 weeks left in this semester, my senior year. I have aced all of my classes so far and am going into the final stretch of the semester with all A's and a good outlook for finals. Essentially I am almost a sure fire for a 4.0 this semester. Another 4.0 next semester and a two A's over summer in breadth classes will give me a final GPA of 3.0. I have decided to take the MCAT after I graduate because I have too much on my plate right now with EMT work, research in an on campus lab, being an Undergraduate Student Instructor for Anatomy, and the various clubs that I am a part of.

So I am looking for some advice. I am 100% confident now that I will get a 4.0 senior year given straight A's so far with the busiest schedule I have ever had. It was tough to adapt at first but I am now used to it and it has become normal and easy to me. I am figuring that I will graduate with a 3.0 flat and with multiple months dedicated to studying for the MCAT and given practice exam results from the past, I am estimating a 36 MCAT. I know the MCAT score is not as reliable since I have not actually taken it, but the GPA is pretty stable at this point.

3.0 GPA, 36 MCAT (or whatever the new scale equivalent it). Upward trend in last year including adding a Nutritional Science Minor to my Molecular and Cell Biology Major. 1 year of research. Work as an EMT through the school year. Hospital volunteering. Various clubs, UGSI'ing for anatomy, etc.

What should I do? Is an MD still on the table? If so, should I go SMP, post-bacc, or just apply to MD's after a year to improve my resume?
 
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IF you get a 515+ MCAT then you need an SMP to even be considered for MD. An MCAT score less than that May just kill your MD chances. You could apply DO with a line of 3.0/515 and probably get in somewhere. It seems like you REALLY want the MD (may I ask why?) so you need an SMP and then to ace it.
 
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Hi everyone!

I am back again for another update on how things are going :)

There are about 4 weeks left in this final semester of my senior year. Last semester, I received a 4.0 while doing some heavy duty ECs. This semester, the outlook is good for another 4.0, although I am a little bit worried about possibly getting an A- in Molecular and Cell Physiology Lab because the GSI is rough. Another 4.0 this semester and a three A's in summer school classes will give me a final GPA of 3.0. I have decided to take the MCAT after I graduate because I have too much on my plate right now, so I expect a good MCAT score with plenty of time to study and complete confidence in myself as a student.
While working towards that 4.0 this semester, I have managed to work as an EMT for 20 hours per week, research in a lab 6 hours a week, volunteer in a hospital 4 hours a week, and volunteer with an EMT-club on campus 2 hours a week for a grand total of 42 hours of ECs per week (not counting travel time!). It was a really tough ride but I am proud to say that I accomplished it.
Moreover, I have been accepted as a research assistant in a UCSF lab!

So I am still panicking and looking for some advice. I will graduate with a exactly a 3.0 and have faith that I will score at least a 36 (516) on the MCAT. You can skim through most of my EC's below.

My EC's are not bad: (Italics and red font indicates activity was performed in senior year)
Clinical: Estimated 500+ hours as an EMT. Estimated 100 hours as a hospital volunteer. Estimated 50 hours shadowing primary care physicians. Estimated 100 hours volunteering with an EMT organization on campus.
Volunteer: 400+ hours combined from campus clubs like animal shelters, homeless shelters, and disaster preparedness groups.
Research: 350+ hours in a lab (slightly over one year)
Leadership: 2 years with a campus club. Tutor for Physiology Lab for one semester. Tutor for Anatomy Lab for one semester. Editor of a scientific publication (school club). 70+ Hours as a CPR instructor.
As you can see, most of my EC's came from my senior year. These numbers are estimates of how many hours I will graduate with in each activity. I plan to continue EMT and research in my gap years, hopefully boosting those numbers quite a bit by the time applications roll around.

A lot of people have been asking me why I am so enamored with applying to MDs. I am embarrassed to say that it is nothing more than an issue of pride. Please understand where I am coming from. I struggled early on in college for reasons that maybe I could have avoided, maybe not. I was set back because of the reasons that I partially detailed in my original post, and I never got my feet back under me until I got my personal issues in check. I struggled early on with adjusting to college for more than a few reasons. Before I could reset and make the necessary changes to prosper, I was faced with a difficult personal decision that I had to make that will soon dramatically change my life (which I can detail in private messages if you care to hear). After months, I finally came to grips with what I had to do and what was the best decision for me. You know the story from here. I emerged from this ordeal as a man that I had never even dreamed I would one day become, a man far more ambitious and successful than I could have ever been, though the marks this journey left on my record were cataclysmic in nature. If you asked me the question of if I would change the way things happened, the quick answer would be yes. I would love to have had a better GPA. If you asked me to search deep down and truly answer that question, then the answer would be no. I would not change anything. I am content with the way things unfolded. It made me a better man than I would have thought possible of that 18 year old boy entering college. It made me better. I only hope that medical schools can forgive my GPA and see me for who I am now.
And this is why I covet an MD so desperately. I must prove to myself that I am good enough. I have been blessed and cursed with a burning desire to prove to myself that I am the best, and to prove to myself that I am worth something. I am sorry that I cannot find the words to describe to you all how I feel. Regardless, my position is a direct result of my failures, and I accept that. I will apply to DO schools as well as MD schools, for it is not the letters on the degree that moved me to become a doctor, it is medicine, and as long as I have a chance practice medicine, I must take it.

Here is my plan: I will be graduating this summer. From here, I will be taking a few months to study for the MCAT and score as high as I can. I will continue my two research positions and EMT while doing this. After I take the MCAT, I will apply to SMP programs in 2017. I can only pray that I will get in to one. Next, I will apply to medical schools in the same 2017 cycle. The goal is to attend an SMP while waiting for medical schools to review my application, and show them through my SMP work that I am a capable student. I do not believe post-bacc programs will benefit me as I would have to take 30 units to get to a 3.2. Unless this will help get me past cutoffs, I do not believe that this will be as useful as an SMP.

Thank you for reading my story. Any feedback would be appreciated.

Most of all, thank you all for sticking with me, believing in me, and keeping my spirits up when I was so down.


Hope to hear from you guys soon,

Prince
 
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I have been thinking about my plans after graduation, and would appreciate some advice. As it stands today, I plan to continue research on campus, start my research position at UCSF, continue my work as an EMT, volunteer as a UGSI for anatomy (tutor of sorts), and most importantly study for the MCAT. After I take the MCAT, I will replace the MCAT prep with a few CC classes to help boost my GPA to a 3.1, while applying to SMP programs.

Is this satisfactory ? Or should I scrap all of the EC's in order study for the MCAT and take CC classes both semesters to boost up to a 3.2?
 
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I have been thinking about my plans after graduation, and would appreciate some advice. As it stands today, I plan to continue research on campus, start my research position at UCSF, continue my work as an EMT, volunteer as a UGSI for anatomy (tutor of sorts), and most importantly study for the MCAT. After I take the MCAT, I will replace the MCAT prep with a few CC classes to help boost my GPA to a 3.1, while applying to SMP programs.

Is this satisfactory ? Or should I scrap all of the EC's in order study for the MCAT and take CC classes both semesters to boost up to a 3.2?

I was in a similar situation regarding the CC classes. I opted to forego taking CC classes, and just keep my gpa at 3.08. It worked out for me, and I really dont think that a 3.0 vs a 3.2 would be a deal breaker, especially after you have some SMP grades.

Keep in mind that your career depends on you doing very well on a single MCAT attempt. I would personally hold off on the ECs until after you are satisfied with your MCAT score.
 
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I was in a similar situation regarding the CC classes. I opted to forego taking CC classes, and just keep my gpa at 3.08. It worked out for me, and I really dont think that a 3.0 vs a 3.2 would be a deal breaker, especially after you have some SMP grades.

Keep in mind that your career depends on you doing very well on a single MCAT attempt. I would personally hold off on the ECs until after you are satisfied with your MCAT score.

Wow, I'm really happy that it ended up working out for you! That put a smile on my face :)
Thank you for the advice about CC classes and my GPA. As per your suggestion, I will prioritize the MCAT studying over the ECs. You are right, I must do well in a single attempt to show ADCOMs that I am capable.
 
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I wanted to briefly check in. I just received my final grades for last semester's courses. I got straight A's for the second semester in a row, including two A+'s.
That completes my 4.0 for all of my senior year classes.
I have begun summer school with a three class load and am continuing most of my ECs concurrently. A's in these three classes will take me just above a 3.0.
MCAT preparation begins in full upon the conclusion of my summer classes.

Thanks for reading,
Prince Aladdin
 
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Good job! Just a note, A+'s are the same thing as A's there is no difference
 
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Quick Update:

Done with undergrad. Although only one of the three summer courses I took was a science course, I finished up with three A's. I wish I could have taken three science courses, but the two non-science courses I enrolled in were necessary for graduation.

That makes it straight A's for two summers and two semesters, or a total of ten classes for grades and two accessory courses on a pass/fail basis.
It's not a huge body of work, but it's something. Importantly, this brings my final undergrad cumulative GPA to a 3.01.

I've cut down a little on EC's to make room for MCAT preparation.

It's going to be a rough few months balancing MCAT studying between 4 full days of work and lab. Throw in some other EC's sparingly and I've got my work cut out for me :)

Thanks for reading.
 
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Quick Update:

Done with undergrad. Although only one of the three summer courses I took was a science course, I finished up with three A's. I wish I could have taken three science courses, but the two non-science courses I enrolled in were necessary for graduation.

That makes it straight A's for two summers and two semesters, or a total of ten classes for grades and two accessory courses on a pass/fail basis.
It's not a huge body of work, but it's something. Importantly, this brings my final undergrad cumulative GPA to a 3.01.

I've cut down a little on EC's to make room for MCAT preparation.

It's going to be a rough few months balancing MCAT studying between 4 full days of work and lab. Throw in some other EC's sparingly and I've got my work cut out for me :)

Thanks for reading.

Good job, and good luck! I'm sure you will do great
 
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