Simultaneous Careers: Mental Health Counselor & Stripper

[erg923]

Lets all keep in mind here that "pornstar" is a lie. It's a euphemism. These are not "stars." You can't really say that when 99% if the populous has has no idea who you are. These women are prostitutes. This is not a "judgement"or a derision of their character. It just is.

When we can stop kidding ourselves about what we are doing, I think we can have meaningful dialogue. However I generally find that supporters and advocates of pornography like to build it up into much more than it actually is.

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[neutralpalatte]

LOL ok. Too bad none of them care and probably none of them actually want to be famous, or you know... they would have done something that would get them famous. Not everyone who works in entertainment wants to be famous. In fact, majority would probably agree that mainstream fame would be hell. Living in a fishbowl, getting stalked, and not able to leave your house without being harassed? No thanks.

Oh and yep, I was tooooootally a prostitute despite never having sex with a man for money, nor having been an escort. Apparently, because someone is nude in front of a camera, it must be because they're a ~*prostitute*~. Even a few of the girls I posted as "pornstar" examples a couple posts back, have never worked on camera with men. Newsflash: Many are just shooting glamour nudes, or fetish content completely solo. It is artistic. Yet, apparently everyone in front of a camera is a total prostitute. Guess you're right. LOL

Done here

 

[psychtalk1274]

This poster seems a bit "axis ii" to me. and by the way a TON of people with mental illness (and most axis ii) can make it to work on time and do the job asrequired. Thbis conversation is ridiculous and you obviously have no boundaries which makes me think borderline (a lot of borderlines are high functioning). I think you need to learn some boundaries in order for you to be even a mediocre therapist otherwise you will harm clients and yourself.

 

[neutralpalatte]

This poster seems a bit "axis ii" to me. and by the way a TON of people with mental illness (and most axis ii) can make it to work on time and do the job asrequired. Thbis conversation is ridiculous and you obviously have no boundaries which makes me think borderline (a lot of borderlines are high functioning). I think you need to learn some boundaries in order for you to be even a mediocre therapist otherwise you will harm clients and yourself.

Diagnosing people you've never met, unwanted, and over the internet. Professional and classy. I am the farthest thing from having BPD lol. Like almost opposite. Too careful and value too much alone time. Extremely independent and with a secure identity, interests and friends I've had for years. Making smart, well thought-out choices that have proved to be emotionally rewarding and even some great ones with financial payoffs, etc.

But anyway, continue on! I'm done here

 

[erg923]

Oh and yep, I was tooooootally a prostitute despite never having sex with a man for money, nor having been an escort. Apparently, because someone is nude in front of a camera, it must be because they're a ~*prostitute*~. Even a few of the girls I posted as "pornstar" examples a couple posts back, have never worked on camera with men. Newsflash: Many are just shooting glamour nudes, or fetish content completely solo. It is artistic. Yet, apparently everyone in front of a camera is a total prostitute. Guess you're right. LOL

Done here

If the convo is to shift in this direction, both parties have to be honest. The traditional definition of prostitution is not limited to the act of coutis. Selling ones body for sexual purposes is prostitution ("pro" and "statuere"-to put up front for sale). Hooking. Whoredom. And any other vile label given for that work. The is a label of the job, not the person, mind you.

I agree that the act of prostituting ones body can also be artistic or percieved as art by others if pictures are taken of it.

 

[LPPSYD]

...Again with the stereotypes? Really??

Aside from personal experience and things I've seen with my own eyes, I think that because of common things like this:



Its just the facts of life that people (especially women) are threatened by conventionally attractive women. And people (especially men) are threatened by people with money. Its a huge threat on a biological level since women value their looks and men value resources.

Stripping is just a job. Just as people who work at McDonalds aren't obsessed with burgers, people that work as a sexworker aren't obsessed with sex. Yes, lets "not like" someone because of their occupation. In reality, that makes no sense. The reality is that these people "don't like" the stripper because this person is a threat. Physical beauty + confidence + money.


Lastly, (@erg923) though it is none of your business, I will say that I do not have a preoccupation with money. I run businesses, so obviously I have to care about things like profit. But I actually rarely spend money unless I have to, and when I do spend money, I buy items that are cost-effective yet still high quality so I don't have to buy another one. But that's not anyone's business.

You yourself seem to buy into a lot of harmful stereotypes that keep women down (e.g., people who are "vanilla" and the notion that women are "threatened by conventionally attractive women." And as others pointed out, no one had a judgment of strippers in their responses. You come off as incredibly self-righteous.

 

[erg923]

Stripping is just a job. Just as people who work at McDonalds aren't obsessed with burgers, people that work as a sexworker aren't obsessed with sex. Yes, lets "not like" someone because of their occupation. In reality, that makes no sense. The reality is that these people "don't like" the stripper because this person is a threat. Physical beauty + confidence + money.

Empowerment of an individual can occur in almost any scenario. So, I wont take that mantra away from those in the adult industry (including stripping). However, this notion becomes much more complex when applying it to larger groups. That is, that the notion of "empowerment" of the female species by using their sexuality to hold power over men. This seems to be common argument made, from what I can tell. That and the notion of "sexual freedom" which is little more than a euphemism for hedonism.

I am, for lack of better word a stereotypical man, however. I played football in high school and I currently coach La Crosse. I don't do laundry, nor do I cook much, as my wife does much of this. However, watching a strange a young woman take her clothes while a table full of men remains clothed and drinks beer hardly strikes me as an equitable relationship. Nor does it strike me a relationship. It strikes me as seeing another human as an object to be used for pleasure. It strikes me as "lust."

Lust, Wrath, Greed, Sloth, Hubris, Envy, Gluttony...

 

[smalltownpsych]

Empowerment of an individual can occur in almost any scenario. So, I wont take that mantra away from those in the adult industry (including stripping). However, this notion becomes much more complex when applying it to larger groups. That is, that the notion of "empowerment" of the female species by using their sexuality to hold power over men. This seems to be common argument made, from what I can tell. That and the notion of "sexual freedom" which is little more than a euphemism for hedonism.

I am, for lack of better word a stereotypical man, however. I played football in high school and I currently coach La Crosse. I don't do laundry, nor do I cook much, as my wife does much of this. However, watching a strange a young woman take her clothes while a table full of men remains clothed and drinks beer hardly strikes me as an equitable relationship. Nor does it strike me a relationship. It strikes me as seeing another human as an object to be used for pleasure. It strikes me as "lust."

Lust, Wrath, Greed, Sloth, Hubris, Envy, Gluttony...

"But that sounds so judgmental. What about freedom of expression and unconditional positive regard?" As if psychology (or any human pursuit for that matter) could ever be value neutral. Just wanted to throw that out preemptively.

 

[CaliMac]

"But that sounds so judgmental. What about freedom of expression and unconditional positive regard?" As if psychology (or any human pursuit for that matter) could ever be value neutral. Just wanted to throw that out preemptively.

Yes, that. When we confuse discernment with discrimination, we get in trouble.

 

[chartero]

I think we can all agree that the risk of boundary issues is proven conclusively in this case report by T-Pain (2005).

 

[erg923]

Yes, that. When we confuse discernment with discrimination, we get in trouble.

This is essential. Teaching one's children moral lessons requires them to develop a sense of rightness and wrongness based on certain values. I want my children to critically analyze and then judge behavior, NOT people. By the way, Neutralpallate this is what psychologists do, as part of their job description. I'm not sure who told you we don't judge people's behavior?

I think a source of disagreement comes from a lack of willingness to understand that while all people are of equal value/worth and should not be judged, their behavior can, and most certainly should be judged. Thats how we grow and learn. And its why we have civilized societies as opposed to anarchy. I mean, when a child lies to his/her parents, you judge that behavior as wrong, right? I think the rub is that some people are functioning with the motto: If it makes you feel good immediately, immediately do it -and anything to to the contrary is castigated "vanilla." There's no higher order morality or value involved there. Do it if it's your thing. If it's not, it's okay. Wanna have sex? Sure, go ahead. Wanna have a kid? Sure. Have a kid whenever... and with whoever. Pretty much the only rule is "don't judge," cause THATS really whats harmful.

Decadence. One the historically accepted reasons that Rome fell to the Turks...

 

[SublimeNature]

First of all, I AM DEAD SERIOUS. I am currently a psychology/honors program/aging studies minor student with a 4.0 GPA and am graduating two years early. I am also running an independent experiment which may be published (I haven't finished analyzing the data yet). I have been stripping once a week in order to support myself since my father is emotionally abusive and my mother is below the poverty line. I shouldn't have to post such personal information, but I feel I must in order to avoid any judgment. I LOVE my job; it has allowed me to make lots of money and keep school a priority. Anyways, I plan on becoming a Clinical Mental Health Counselor and was wondering if I could still be a stripper? I would obviously do it in a different town, I just want to make sure my license won't be taken away. I can't ask the grad schools I'm looking at because they might stigmatize me. Psychology scholars should know better, but they apparently don't. I have anonymously contacted the Society of Counseling Psychology and they ignored my e-mail. This is a serious question and I will only entertain those that are interesting in providing me an answer. Thank you.

Where the hell is the PM button on here?! I have a lot to say privately which mostly entails a kudos for your candor and "you go girl!" in a lot of sentences.

 

[erg923]

Where the hell is the PM button on here?! I have a lot to say privately which mostly entails a kudos for your candor and "you go girl!" in a lot of sentences.

Do you like lawsuits? You must...

 

[SublimeNature]

Do you like lawsuits? You must...

I'm not quite sure why you would query in such a way. Giving someone props for being open and empowered regarding a highly stigmatized subculture would never equate to a law suit. I get the feeling that you disagree, which is fine. But a disagreement isn't lawsuit worthy.

 

[erg923]

I'm not quite sure why you would query in such a way. Giving someone props for being open and empowered regarding a highly stigmatized subculture would never equate to a law suit. I get the feeling that you disagree, which is fine. But a disagreement isn't lawsuit worthy.

I assume you did not read farther, in which the poster discusses her business plan in a bit more detail? If you don't think her "business plan" is a recipe for board complaints, civill tort fillings, and a violation of about half a dozen APA ethics codes, then I would question your judgment as well..

If empowerment is the freedom to be an objectified element of ones lust, then yes I suppose dancing naked in front of men while they remain clothed is "empowering."

 

[neutralpalatte]

I assume you did not read farther, in which the poster discusses her business plan in a bit more detail? If you don't think her "business plan" is a recipe for board complaints, civill tort fillings, and a violation of about half a dozen APA ethics codes, then I would question your judgment as well..

If empowerment is the freedom to be an objectified element of ones lust, then yes I suppose dancing naked in front of men while they remain clothed is "empowering."

That girl just asked about it. She didn't say she was going to do that for sure. She hadn't even entered the program yet lol.


Question (and this is in general, not specifically to the posters who have already posted in this thread). I'm sure the answers are going to be extremely debbie downer just due to the comment climate of this board in general, so I'm going to take the answers with a grain of salt anyway, but... Can a practicing LMFT/LCSW/LPC/PsyD/PhD get her license revoked if the media was the one exposing her legal adult industry side job (or past job) with her real name and that she a practicing psychotherapist/psychologist? And how would that even be her fault since the media can write whatever articles they want?

And I mean, even if the OP actually did do the thing she typed up there, how would anyone a.) find out about it, and b.) prove that she is doing that? I'd not advocating to do that, I'm just saying it would be awfully hard to prove as true lol. Wow, a random man who goes into strip clubs sometimes is holding her business card!!! Omg!!! She must automatically be a stripper because there's no where else he could have gotten her business card!!!

 

[erg923]

That girl just asked about it. She didn't say she was going to do that for sure. She hadn't even entered the program yet lol.

Question (and this is in general, not specifically to the posters who have already posted in this thread). I'm sure the answers are going to be extremely debbie downer just due to the comment climate of this board in general, so I'm going to take the answers with a grain of salt anyway, but... Can a practicing LMFT/LCSW/LPC/PsyD/PhD get her license revoked if the media was the one exposing her legal adult industry side job (or past job) with her real name and that she a practicing psychotherapist/psychologist? And how would that even be her fault since the media can write whatever articles they want?!!!

This is not a court of criminal law, where the burden is "reasonable doubt." The burden of proof is on the practitioner that his/her action are not effecting the quality of her clincial work or exploiting/harming patients. Harm doesn't have to be deomostrated as having happened, just risk that it could given the practice or behavior in question. Punishments can include anything from suspensions, to manadated supervision, to full license revokation.

And I mean, even if the OP actually did do the thing she typed up there, how would anyone a.) find out about it, and b.) prove that she is doing that? I'd not advocating to do that, I'm just saying it would be awfully hard to prove as true lol. Wow, a random man who goes into strip clubs sometimes is holding her business card!!! Omg!!! She must automatically be a stripper because there's no where else he could have gotten her business card!!!

I'm not sure what you mean here. Obviously, there could be pictures, videos, testimony from persons, subpoening (boards of psychology have this legal authority) of employment records, etc. The question is really more how long could one keep a secret, right?

 

[neutralpalatte]

This is not a court of criminal law, where the burden is "reasonable doubt." The burden of proof is on the practitioner that his/her action are not effecting the quality of her clincial work or exploiting/harming patients. Harm doesn't have to be deomostrated as having happened, just risk that it could given the practice or behavior in question. Punishments can include anything from suspensions, to manadated supervision, to full license revokation.

I'm not sure what you mean here. Obviously, there could be pictures, videos, testimony from persons, subpoening (boards of psychology have this legal authority) of employment records, etc. The question is really more how long could one keep a secret, right?

No, I mean what if what happened to Belle Knox, for example, happened to someone who previously had a LEGAL adult industry career? Would their license get revoked just because they previously had a LEGAL adult industry career? Belle was outed, while working as a pornstar, as going to Duke University. And this isn't uncommon, just most aren't outted. Belle obviously did it on purpose though to get more adult bookings (thus more money) since she's still in undergrad and not in law school yet. http://time.com/2873280/duke-porn-star-belle-knox-college-cost/

All girls who work in the adult industry have side jobs, other businesses, invest, or are in school because they have to put that money somewhere and think long-term.

 

[erg923]

No, I mean what if what happened to Belle Knox, for example, happened to someone who previously had a LEGAL adult industry career? Would their license get revoked just because they previously had a LEGAL adult industry career? Belle was outed, while working as a pornstar, as going to Duke University. And this isn't uncommon, just most aren't outted. Belle obviously did it on purpose though to get more adult bookings (thus more money) since she's still in undergrad and not in law school yet. http://time.com/2873280/duke-porn-star-belle-knox-college-cost/

All girls who work in the adult industry have side jobs, other businesses, invest, or are in school because they have to put that money somewhere and think long-term.

The behavior in question generally has to be either: occuring concurrent with practice OR resulted in a criminal (usually felony) conviction. Standards veary from state to state.

 

[neutralpalatte]

The behavior in question generally has to be either: occuring concurrent with practice OR resulted in a criminal (usually felony) conviction. Standards veary from state to state.

Okay... I know that. But this wouldn't fall into either category. It would be past behavior, past career. With behavior occurring before someone had their license, or at least their own private practice. And its legal, so obviously not a felony. Actually, even if you were an escort, which is illegal, it would only be a misdemeanor if you got caught.

 

[erg923]

Okay... I know that. But this wouldn't fall into either category. It would be past behavior, past career. With behavior occurring before someone had their license, or at least their own private practice. And its legal, so obviously not a felony. Actually, even if you were an escort, which is illegal, it would only be a misdemeanor if you got caught.

Ok. Im not sure I know what your question is? I thought it was clearly answered?

 

[smalltownpsych]

That girl just asked about it. She didn't say she was going to do that for sure. She hadn't even entered the program yet lol.


Question (and this is in general, not specifically to the posters who have already posted in this thread). I'm sure the answers are going to be extremely debbie downer just due to the comment climate of this board in general, so I'm going to take the answers with a grain of salt anyway, but... Can a practicing LMFT/LCSW/LPC/PsyD/PhD get her license revoked if the media was the one exposing her legal adult industry side job (or past job) with her real name and that she a practicing psychotherapist/psychologist? And how would that even be her fault since the media can write whatever articles they want?

And I mean, even if the OP actually did do the thing she typed up there, how would anyone a.) find out about it, and b.) prove that she is doing that? I'd not advocating to do that, I'm just saying it would be awfully hard to prove as true lol. Wow, a random man who goes into strip clubs sometimes is holding her business card!!! Omg!!! She must automatically be a stripper because there's no where else he could have gotten her business card!!!

I would think that it depends on the individual board and the laws in that state. If I was sitting on a psychology board and a complaint came before me about a licensed psychologist being a stripper, I don't think I would automatically say revoke his or her license, but it would raise some serious concerns. many of those have already been discussed. It would also depend on the nature of the complaint, which is how they would find out about it to answer one of your other questions. Unless one of the board members was at the strip club when Dr. Bambi Bombshell starts twirling around the pole. I was trying to stay serious but I just couldn't help myself.
The biggest issue with the OP was that she was talking about combining the two professions, that's ethically problematic. Most of the posters here were pointing those problems out as would be the case with any side job. I have ethical dilemmas that arise when I am teaching because of the potential fior dual relationships. On that level, it is no different. On the level of a practitioner of psychotherapy and the intimate relationships that we form with our patients, bringing a sexualized element to that is also problematic regardless of how that is introduced and sexual boundary violations are the number one reason for disciplinary action.

 

[neutralpalatte]

I would think that it depends on the individual board and the laws in that state. If I was sitting on a psychology board and a complaint came before me about a licensed psychologist being a stripper, I don't think I would automatically say revoke his or her license, but it would raise some serious concerns. many of those have already been discussed. It would also depend on the nature of the complaint, which is how they would find out about it to answer one of your other questions. Unless one of the board members was at the strip club when Dr. Bambi Bombshell starts twirling around the pole. I was trying to stay serious but I just couldn't help myself.
The biggest issue with the OP was that she was talking about combining the two professions, that's ethically problematic. Most of the posters here were pointing those problems out as would be the case with any side job. I have ethical dilemmas that arise when I am teaching because of the potential fior dual relationships. On that level, it is no different. On the level of a practitioner of psychotherapy and the intimate relationships that we form with our patients, bringing a sexualized element to that is also problematic regardless of how that is introduced and sexual boundary violations are the number one reason for disciplinary action.

I just don't think there would be any disciplinary action. I was wondering if there was any specific law or rule about this. The Belle Du Jour lady, Dr Brooke Magnanti, was an escort before she got her PhD. Even while she was in school. And escorting is illegal. And for all we know, she could even still be an escort. Yet nothing happened to her, but she's not in private practice or practicing. Just research. So I was wondering if there was distinction between if you have a license and if you don't, in a situation like this.

 

[erg923]

I just don't think there would be any disciplinary action. I was wondering if there was any specific law or rule about this. The Belle Du Jour lady, Dr Brooke Magnanti, was an escort before she got her PhD. Even while she was in school. And escorting is illegal. And for all we know, she could even still be an escort. Yet nothing happened to her, but she's not in private practice or practicing. Just research. So I was wondering if there was distinction between if you have a license and if you don't, in a situation like this.

That person is not licened by any board to practice anything, that I can see...

 

[neutralpalatte]

That person is not licened by any board to practice anything, that I can see...

I know. You are not writing anything that I don't already know. I am asking that, hypothetically, if she had a license of some sort and was in private practice, would it be revoked due to some law or clause. If so, what is the clause?

 

[erg923]

Likely no. If it was happening concurrenly, then "moral turpitude" clauses, of which most state psych boards have a form of, would apply.

Also, if she was advocating her patients/clients partake in an illegal activity (eg., prostituition), obviously this would be grounds for license revokation.

 

[neutralpalatte]

Likely no. If it was happening concurrenly, then "moral turpitude" clauses, of which most state psych boards have a form of, would apply.

Also, if she was advocating her patients/clients partake in an illegal activity (eg., prostituition), obviously this would be grounds for license revokation.

Okay well even then, escorting is legal in London where she supposedly lived.

 

[erg923]

Okay well even then, escorting is legal in London where she supposedly lived.

Yes, but you dont live in London.

 

[neutralpalatte]

Yes, but you dont live in London.

That doesn't have anything to do with anything. I'm not an escort and never have been, and I could move to London if I wanted but I don't want to. She is also not from there (she's American), she moved there.

 

[erg923]

That doesn't have anything to do with anything. I'm not an escort and never have been.

Uh huh. You sure seem to be asking a whole lot of "hyopthetical" questions then. My spidey senses are tingling...

 

[neutralpalatte]

Uh huh. You sure seem to be asking a whole lot of "hyopthetical" questions then. My spidey senses are tingling...

Never been on and don't plan on it. I bought it up because of Belle Du Jour who was in the media, with that situation. There's no one else working in psychology whose been in the media in the adult industry. End of story.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

I know. You are not writing anything that I don't already know. I am asking that, hypothetically, if she had a license of some sort and was in private practice, would it be revoked due to some law or clause. If so, what is the clause?

To add to what was said, if the person had actually been doing something illegal (e.g., working as an escort), failed to list this on their licensing application (if it included an appropriate question/section), and it later came to light--yes, that person could very well lose their license. If the application didn't have a question that pulled for such a disclosure (e.g., "have you ever participated in illegal activities involving _____, even if you were not charged?"), then if the activities came to light later, I'm not sure if the board would be able to pull the license just for that. However, as erg mentioned, the "moral turpitude" clause that is present in all licensing applications I've seen seems to give the board lots of latitude here.

My guess would be that if the board felt the individual was abusing power, taking advantage of people, significantly leveraging trust for personal gain, etc., then they might consider revoking the license. I'd imagine they'd probably need some measure of proof, though.

 

[neutralpalatte]

To add to what was said, if the person had actually been doing something illegal (e.g., working as an escort), failed to list this on their licensing application (if it included an appropriate question/section), and it later came to light--yes, that person could very well lose their license. If the application didn't have a question that pulled for such a disclosure (e.g., "have you ever participated in illegal activities involving _____, even if you were not charged?"), then if the activities came to light later, I'm not sure if the board would be able to pull the license just for that. However, as erg mentioned, the "moral turpitude" clause that is present in all licensing applications I've seen seems to give the board lots of latitude here.

My guess would be that if the board felt the individual was abusing power, taking advantage of people, significantly leveraging trust for personal gain, etc., then they might consider revoking the license. I'd imagine they'd probably need some measure of proof, though.

Okay, so the defining factor is the legality issue then?

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Okay, so the defining factor is the legality issue then?

I don't know if I'd say it's the defining factor, no. Legality could just specifically apply to the hypothetical situation you provided, and would provide for a relatively straightforward response--if the person lied on their application materials, their license would likely be suspended or outright pulled. Thus, in that situation, the defining factors would be both legality and, perhaps more importantly, failure to disclose.

Regardless of legality, though, there's still the morality clause that can come into play, even if the person is forthright when applying.

 

[neutralpalatte]

I don't know if I'd say it's the defining factor, no. Legality could just specifically apply to the hypothetical situation you provided, and would provide for a relatively straightforward response--if the person lied on their application materials, their license would likely be suspended or outright pulled. Thus, in that situation, the defining factors would be both legality and, perhaps more importantly, failure to disclose.

Regardless of legality, though, there's still the morality clause that can come into play, even if the person is forthright when applying.

And if something is legal, its not likely considered culturally immoral or... it would be illegal. lol

 

[AcronymAllergy]

And if something is legal, its not likely considered culturally immoral or... it would be illegal. lol

Not necessarily; that'd be up to the licensing board. Relating to the current topic, some might consider working as an adult dancer/entertainer/performer/etc. to not adhere to the "moral turpitude" clause, and to be at odds with one's ability to appropriately provide mental health care and/or interact with potential patients. I'm not saying that's definite, or that it's happened, just that the option could potentially be there. I'd also imagine that's the kind of thing which could end up in court eventually.

This is all assuming the individual is in private practice, of course. If the person has an employer, then said employer can have all sorts of stipulations regarding these things.

 

[erg923]

And if something is legal, its not likely considered culturally immoral or... it would be illegal. lol

What makes you say that? Lots of things that are frowned upon by certain segments of professional society or professions are "legal."

Similarly, lots of behaviors that are legal are wholly inconsistent with the trust element of being a healthcare professional. Further, lots of behaviors that are legal can pose potential harm or exploitation to the vulnerable population that this profession is entrusted to care for.

 

[neutralpalatte]

Lol this is just laughable at this point. Living your life based on what-ifs or potential this or that is just so pointless. Well I'm glad to know there is no clause that states certain things (especially past) are exempt. I'm willing to take the risks .

Luckily for me, I already have fallback businesses that will remain in tact before, during (and after, in the very rare case) private practice. So I'm lucky in that regard. I have nothing to lose.

 

[neutralpalatte]

No, but as stated previously, your potential patients do.

Oh yes... you're totally right! An ex-stripper and ex-nude model turned entrepreneur can't possibly provide good care to clients as a licensed psychotherapist! You caught me! Like I said, I retired yearssss ago and its a legal profession. Lol. a.) This isn't a thread I started, and b.) I was just asking if there were any specific clauses in regards to adult work and where the line is drawn if those clauses did exist. And now I know there are no clauses against it.

Lol I think I'm done here. Its pretty obvious why stripper OP never came back.

 

[erg923]

If your searching for "approval" honey, you ain't getting it here. Only truth. You asked. Don't shoot the messengers.

 

[futurefreud2014]

Hey guys, look who's back! I haven't been on here because I actually have a life and don't feel the need to sit on internet forums all day. I am definitely not a troll. I know, it's hard to believe that someone with a 4.0 could possibly be a stripper. Anyways, looking back on what I said about the business cards, it may not have been a good idea. When I wrote that, I meant that if I talked to someone who seemed like or expressed they needed counseling, I would refer them to therapy and stop my interactions with them at the club. If they still showed up, I would simply refer them to a different therapist. But if I do pull of the simultaneous careers thing then I would simply not interact with a patient if I saw them at the club, or I would work in a different town in order to decrease the odds. To be honest, though, I would probably just not introduce myself and try not to go near them when I get off stage because people don't even recognize me at work between all the makeup, the dim lights, and my stage name. I've been in the industry for two years, so it wasn't me simply being naive about it. I never even drank alcohol at work because I'm under 21. I probably won't do them simultaneously, but if I chose to it would be very easy to keep them separated. I did it while I was living on campus and no one recognized me. I actually decided to apply to doctorate programs since I got more research/clinical experience, so who knows, one of you who put me down may end up teaching me one day or being my supervisor and not even know it! Erg, you are one messed up psychologist. I really hope you don't talk to your patients like that. And it wasn't my stripping that led me to want to become a therapist, I started stripping in order to support myself and save in case I have to get a psyD (which I could pay for all by myself at this point). All I wanted to know if I would lose my license over this or not, and now I have the information I needed. Anyone else who made a joke or judged me is obviously immature and needs to sort out their own issues before they enter the field.

 

[erg923]

1. In your opinion, what treatments or clinical populations might be contraindicated due to the dual professional roles that are being performed. For example, would you accept individuals with past history of sexual violence as one of your clients? Etc.

2. How would your dual roles be divulged to, and proactively addressed with, the licensing board in order to assuage concerns and prevent disciplinary action? If you would prefer to choose not to divulge this information to the licensing board,please explain why this is? Do you think this is ethical?

 

[erg923]

Perhaps you could articulate why the profession of "psychologist" apparently means one has to the view selling of lust as "healthy," or on a personal level, "morally neutral?" It is the selling of ones body for sexual purposes. I find this, generally, to be a distasteful act... as do most others. Its not a particularly unusual opinion on the topic, and I think psychologists are entitled to personal views the way that anyone else is. From an empirical/scientific perspective, I have insufficient evidence that such work is psychologically healthy and lots of data that is presents substintial risks. Thus, it something I may indeed bring up as presenting an obstacle to the goals of a patient's treatment plan. Seems pretty logical and in line with established standards of practice to me.

But I'm curious, what else am I not allowed to view as "immoral" in my personal life? Am I required to be "supportive" of abortion as well? How polygamy? Am I understanding that you do not think that one can have moral convictions that are at odds with the larger mainstream culture because my profession is one of "psychologist?" Disagreeing with a patients behavior (whether or not that is relevant to treatment plan and thus discussed explicitly in counseling) is
certainly common within the therapeutic relationship. Perhaps you have a different experience or view?

Hint: unconditional positive regard is in relation to the "person" not to the person's chosen behavior.

 

[GunnarBronson]

I'm not sure about psychology, but the NASW code of ethics does not specifically prohibit such an arrangement. However if you were to refer clients from your work to your agency, regardless of if they see you or not, if word got out to your supervisor about your employment in the adult entertainment industry, they may be inclined to call you out on it under the premise of unprofessional conduct. Again, its rather vague but it could happen.

I'm sure you're an intelligent person and a capable therapist, but you have to remember that perception is reality. I'd venture to guess that if clients knew about your other employment, they might not hold you in as high of regard, even if they happen to patronize such businesses. Double standards and what not. I have full sleeve tattoos, and because of that I only wear long sleeve shirts to work. Many clients, even the ones who are also heavily tattooed, might question my professionalism and clinical acumen.

I'm not passing judgement at all, but from the standpoint of avoiding any potential for future conflict, I'd say working both jobs simultaneously might not be the best idea. In terms of maintaining a professional image, I'll just say: limit your exposure.

 

[Goobernut]

The NASW Code of Ethics specifically has a section on "dual-relationships." In my opinion, the whole stripper/counselor thing is covered there. Especially (specifically) in the scenario that the OP mentioned of performing at a club and handing someone in her audience her business card for therapy. That's a textbook dual-relationship to me.

I suppose one could argue that the NASW code of ethics doesn't cover the specific situation of an individual attempting to be an adult entertainer in one city and a therapist in another. I.e. when the OP mentioned that she would not be recognized by her clients due to make-up etc in a later post.

Another interesting thing I learned this week -- there are agencies who specifically forbid moonlighting of any kind. This obviously does not apply to neutralpalatte and her private practice scenario, but it will for people who have to work for an agency. So if the OP wants to work for an agency in the future, she'll have to make sure and get permission to have a second job.

 

[erg923]

The NASW Code of Ethics specifically has a section on "dual-relationships." In my opinion, the whole stripper/counselor thing is covered there. Especially (specifically) in the scenario that the OP mentioned of performing at a club and handing someone in her audience her business card for therapy. That's a textbook dual-relationship to me.

I suppose one could argue that the NASW code of ethics doesn't cover the specific situation of an individual attempting to be an adult entertainer in one city and a therapist in another. I.e. when the OP mentioned that she would not be recognized by her clients due to make-up etc in a later post.

Another interesting thing I learned this week -- there are agencies who specifically forbid moonlighting of any kind. This obviously does not apply to neutralpalatte and her private practice scenario, but it will for people who have to work for an agency. So if the OP wants to work for an agency in the future, she'll have to make sure and get permission to have a second job.

Given the horrified look on my service chief"s face when I told her I was going to do some side work with the managed care industry, I think asking permission to oscillate ones "milkshake" at a local "gentlemans club" might go over like a lead ballon.

 

[GunnarBronson]

The NASW Code of Ethics specifically has a section on "dual-relationships." In my opinion, the whole stripper/counselor thing is covered there. Especially (specifically) in the scenario that the OP mentioned of performing at a club and handing someone in her audience her business card for therapy. That's a textbook dual-relationship to me.

I suppose one could argue that the NASW code of ethics doesn't cover the specific situation of an individual attempting to be an adult entertainer in one city and a therapist in another. I.e. when the OP mentioned that she would not be recognized by her clients due to make-up etc in a later post.

Another interesting thing I learned this week -- there are agencies who specifically forbid moonlighting of any kind. This obviously does not apply to neutralpalatte and her private practice scenario, but it will for people who have to work for an agency. So if the OP wants to work for an agency in the future, she'll have to make sure and get permission to have a second job.

Yeah you're right. I was thinking dual relationship as in a personal relationship and a therapeutic relationship, but a "business" relationship and therapeutic relationship would certainly conflict as well.

Given the horrified look on my service chief"s face when I told her I was going to do some side work with the managed care industry, I think asking permission to oscillate ones "milkshake" at a local "gentlemans club" might go over like a lead ballon.

 

[smalltownpsych]

Oh yes... you're totally right! An ex-stripper and ex-nude model turned entrepreneur can't possibly provide good care to clients as a licensed psychotherapist! You caught me! Like I said, I retired yearssss ago and its a legal profession. Lol. a.) This isn't a thread I started, and b.) I was just asking if there were any specific clauses in regards to adult work and where the line is drawn if those clauses did exist. And now I know there are no clauses against it.

Lol I think I'm done here. Its pretty obvious why stripper OP never came back.

I don't think he was referring to your former career, rather it is the seemingly flippant attitude that you have that raises concerns. I have said it before and I will say it again. Being a healthcare professional requires responsibility and the highest of ethics. First and foremost is "do no harm". Legal is the minimum bar for ethical behavior. Oh and the stripper did come back and seems to be more thoughtful about this than yourself.