One of the EM PDs told me that it's ok to get SLOE from an institution with no EM residency programs attached to it... What do you guys think?
SLOE from institution with no residency program
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If it's the only rotation you can do, than sure why not do it, heck you could probably get a SLOE from the director at the local zoo for Petes sake 
...but I can't imagine that either of those SLOE's holding anywhere near the same about of weight if it was done by a residency program. Just my $0.02.
...but I can't imagine that either of those SLOE's holding anywhere near the same about of weight if it was done by a residency program. Just my $0.02.- Joined
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If it's the only rotation you can do, than sure why not do it, heck you could probably get a SLOE from the director at the local zoo for Petes sake
Agreed.
It's a little late now to be concerned about it. CORD is pretty clear that only faculty can write it. More importantly, most of the core faculty that review applications know one another pretty well. Who's to say if it harms or hurts for interview invites. For the rank list meeting, it might be a little more important.Yeah that's exactly my question - how would they answer the ranking question? But the PD I spoke to convinced me that it was OK to get SLOE from any ED. And a PD from one of my auditions said no one in his ED filled out SLOE. #fml4wastingmytimethere
I had the same question because I rotated at 2 places without residencies and I was told by multiple people that I should not consider asking for a SLOE. The SLOE is geared towards PD's so there is no way someone could fill it out as intended if they were not part of a residency program and as a result it would lose its usefulness to other PD's who basically just want to see how their equals rank you.
Ask for a regular letter from the program but don't get a SLOE.
Ask for a regular letter from the program but don't get a SLOE.
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I think I would certainly do this. Looking back I wish I would have provided letter writers a copy of the SLOE template and tell them that although much of the information they want from residency programs aren't applicable to them it should give them some idea the things they want to know about applicants. Perhaps that would help a regular LOR writer compose a better letter.
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I think it could be a good opportunity - if only to really shine. There won't be so many other students there vying for the attention of the attendings - and you may get more hands on experiences. You'll stand out and the docs will love the help as well and the chance to do some teaching. I would say if possible, do one at a place with a program and one at a place without one.
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Disagree with this. I would NOT waste time doing an audition at a program where I couldn't match unless you are attempting to get a sloe for name recognition.
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I'm not sure that's what he was implying at all. I think he was saying he felt it was a good idea to do a rotation at a place WITHOUT a program at all.
I did this as my first rotation of OMS-IV and haven't regretted it. I rotated at a very busy Level 1 which doesn't have a residency. There were no other students in the ED that month. I worked with a younger doc not too far removed from residency, got a lot of great advice, did a ton of procedures, saw a lot of interesting cases that I was able to sort of pick and choose from, and felt like I was not only more prepared for auditions but grew as a student across the month.
I'm not sure this would be beneficial in the middle of the season but I felt it was a reasonable move early on in the fall. Granted, if I don't match, I guess I'll swallow my words and kick myself for not using that month at a program.
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I have a feeling you'll be fine in the match
. As far as rotating at a Level 1, I bet the name recognition will carry more weight(regionally) than some random ED.I had a similar experience but at a level two in July, got to do every procedure that came in the door from intubation to chest tube to suture, worked with young and old attendings, probably the best rotation I have had and I came out ready to crush my auditions. If you can do this at the start of 4th year then do it, the experience will help you more than the SLOE.
I think the issue is more that Sloe writers at residency programs are a know quantity. They wrote those letters every year and other programs have a good point of reference. On the other hand, a sloe from a random Ed attending is a single data point. The whole point of the sloe is to allow a more objective letter than can be trusted by programs, rather tha. LoRs from a doc no one has ever heard of.
That being said, I still think it is worth asking for a sloe or at least showing them the template prior to them writing a lor. Even if it counts for less, it is still better than nothing, and sometimes you just don't have a better option.
Tl;dr
Residency sloe>personal/nonresidency sloe> random lor (in most cases)
That being said, I still think it is worth asking for a sloe or at least showing them the template prior to them writing a lor. Even if it counts for less, it is still better than nothing, and sometimes you just don't have a better option.
Tl;dr
Residency sloe>personal/nonresidency sloe> random lor (in most cases)
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Unless you fail to match due to not getting a sloe that could have been gained with that month.....
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Agreed. Why not get the same experience AND a SLOE at the same time?
Well that can be avoided with planning, the non SLOE rotation was my first rotation and I've had two other rotations since from which I received two very strong SLOE's and I attribute my success directly to the fact that I spent a month in the non SLOE program that taught me a ton, with no other med students or residents to compete with I sutured like 60 lacs, did a bunch of LP's and basically got good at procedures that many medical students aren't good at and my preceptors at the SLOE programs have definitely taken notice when I've gotten the tap on the 300lb'er or nerve blocked and sutured the autistic 8 year old with no tears. Obviously results may vary and other people might not have such a good experience so take it with a grain of salt, but in my case it helped and gave me a leg up and if I match I will look at that rotation as a defining moment.
The danger is that if its your first EM rotation you might F it up and get a mediocre SLOE. I've been at two academic programs and without my prep rotation I would have gotten my ass handed to me. They were both super competitive and I was put through my paces. I didn't come out feeling good because they really challenged me, but in the end I got very good grades and very good SLOE's but that wouldn't have happened if they were my first rotations. But again, grain of salt, some people might be fine, I wouldn't have.
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Why? What does a SLOE from a person that no one important (PDs) ever heard of do for your application?
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See above post.. thats great you liked your non academic rotation, but how does a program compare an SLOE from such a place to ones that have >100 students passing through there every year. Plus the faculty wouldnt be known by residency programs because they dont have a residency program. Hence why the SLOE wouldnt mean anything probably.
