So, my mom is getting a "therapy" dog

[nancysinatra]

The shame is killing me. My mom, having outspent her resources over approximately the last three decades, is moving into a smaller, more humble abode, and she has this huge dog, which she cannot part with. Her new place is designed for the more geriatric crowd, and dogs aren't allowed. She told me last week she is going to ask her doctor to write a letter saying she needs the dog for her emotional well being. I told her this was pathetic, and beneath a person of her character and integrity, and the first words out of her mouth were, "I don't care. Whatever I need to do!" I have no doubt she will get this letter.

She also has taken to informing me about the various SSRIs she has tried in the last few years. Apparently she discovered she was "anxious and depressed." Ok, really, she just ran out of money. It is really embarrassing to hear her talk about this stuff.

Anyone else run into the situation where your parents dump their psychic woes on you and you really aren't sure you want to hear it??

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[northernpsy]

I think the idea of emotional support animals is absurd. However...if I were forced to move somewhere that it was the only way I could keep my beloved pet with me, I guess I might consider playing the game too, so I can kind of see your mom's point about that.

I don't blame you for not really wanting to hear all about her mental health issues though. I have to admit that after dealing with it at work all day, I probably don't have as much patience for it when people I know personally bring it up when I'm off the clock.

 

[splik]

she's getting an emotional support animal, not a therapy dog. Therapy animals are not allowed in accommodations with no-pet rules, emotional support animals are.

 

[nancysinatra]

she's getting an emotional support animal, not a therapy dog. Therapy animals are not allowed in accommodations with no-pet rules, emotional support animals are.

Thanks for the clarification, Splik. I have no idea what she's getting. But I'll tell you one thing. My mom's dog is crazy. It's a huge, overgrown mangy 85 pound labradoodle that she never properly trained to follow commands. Put that dog in a retirement community and it will provide neither emotional support nor therapy. It might provide reasons for some 911 calls though.

 

[nancysinatra]

I don't blame you for not really wanting to hear all about her mental health issues though. I have to admit that after dealing with it at work all day, I probably don't have as much patience for it when people I know personally bring it up when I'm off the clock.

Yeah, but it's even worse than that. My mom is not actually depressed or anxious. She just "decided" she was at the exact moment in life that she realized she was running out of money and was going to have to downsize. Which, maybe, if she hadn't remodeled her current home 3 times in 4 years, she wouldn't have to do. Her enthusiasm for remodeling is so great it cannot possibly be compatible with a depression diagnosis. And she tells me about her SSRIs like they were new flavors of PEZ. I am a bit skeptical. But it's my mom, what do I know...

 

[nexus73]

Yeah, but it's even worse than that. My mom is not actually depressed or anxious. She just "decided" she was at the exact moment in life that she realized she was running out of money and was going to have to downsize. Which, maybe, if she hadn't remodeled her current home 3 times in 4 years, she wouldn't have to do. Her enthusiasm for remodeling is so great it cannot possibly be compatible with a depression diagnosis. And she tells me about her SSRIs like they were new flavors of PEZ. I am a bit skeptical. But it's my mom, what do I know...

I don't know about anti depressants or PEZ, but saphris wild cherry 40 mg, vodka, and seltzer is quite an experience.

 

[splik]

My mom's dog is crazy.

maybe the dog needs a therapy dog?

 

[nancysinatra]

maybe the dog needs a therapy dog?

Probably! And around here, he'd have no trouble getting a letter.

 

[nancysinatra]

I don't know about anti depressants or PEZ, but saphris wild cherry 40 mg, vodka, and seltzer is quite an experience.

Don't even suggest that. My mom still has about 60 boxes of figurines and Santa ornaments to pack up and move, which requires at least one person with a semblance of sobriety on hand.

Speaking of Santa that reminds me - could I apply for an emotional support WILD animal, such as a reindeer, or perhaps a tiger? Has anyone tried this?

 

[OldPsychDoc]

Might be helpful...

 

[F0nzie]

Don't even suggest that. My mom still has about 60 boxes of figurines and Santa ornaments to pack up and move, which requires at least one person with a semblance of sobriety on hand.

Speaking of Santa that reminds me - could I apply for an emotional support WILD animal, such as a reindeer, or perhaps a tiger? Has anyone tried this?

You would need a letter from a doctor at the institute of winning attesting that a wild animal is needed to occupy your time and energy for the benefit of society. Evidence of tiger's blood in confirmatory testing is also necessary to demonstrate the excessive advantage you possess causing the rest of the human species to become largely irrelevant.


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[Jules A]

I think the idea of emotional support animals is absurd. However...if I were forced to move somewhere that it was the only way I could keep my beloved pet with me, I guess I might consider playing the game too, so I can kind of see your mom's point about that.

I don't blame you for not really wanting to hear all about her mental health issues though. I have to admit that after dealing with it at work all day, I probably don't have as much patience for it when people I know personally bring it up when I'm off the clock.

Yep if I'd do anything necessary to bring my mutts with me so I'm on board with that strategy despite the shame. At least your Mom was being given SSRIs. My 86yo father with no documented psych hx recently informed me the VA gave him temazepam for his "anxiety". My guess is it would be unlikely he is drug seeking, culturally we are more the "just apply a tourniquet and the bleeding will eventually stop" type people, but who knows. In any event I was furious and am tempted to place a call. Its not really my business but one fall and he's in the crapper.

 

[Ceke2002]

Yeah, but it's even worse than that. My mom is not actually depressed or anxious. She just "decided" she was at the exact moment in life that she realized she was running out of money and was going to have to downsize. Which, maybe, if she hadn't remodeled her current home 3 times in 4 years, she wouldn't have to do. Her enthusiasm for remodeling is so great it cannot possibly be compatible with a depression diagnosis. And she tells me about her SSRIs like they were new flavors of PEZ. I am a bit skeptical. But it's my mom, what do I know...

Maybe your Mum and my Mum should get together, we could start a betting pool on how many times the words 'black dog' can be used in a single conversation. Heck I'll even supply wood and nails for the crosses I'm sure they'll both invariably want to climb up on at some point.

 

[st2205]

You would need a letter from a doctor at the institute of winning attesting that a wild animal is needed to occupy your time and energy for the benefit of society. Evidence of tiger's blood in confirmatory testing is also necessary to demonstrate the excessive advantage you possess causing the rest of the human species to become largely irrelevant.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app

You would need a bi-winning diagnosis to qualify. You have to objectively demonstrate through documentation that you win here, and win there.

 

[nancysinatra]

Yep if I'd do anything necessary to bring my mutts with me so I'm on board with that strategy despite the shame. At least your Mom was being given SSRIs. My 86yo father with no documented psych hx recently informed me the VA gave him temazepam for his "anxiety". My guess is it would be unlikely he is drug seeking, culturally we are more the "just apply a tourniquet and the bleeding will eventually stop" type people, but who knows. In any event I was furious and am tempted to place a call. Its not really my business but one fall and he's in the crapper.

Oh, I just forgot to mention, in addition to the SSRIs, my mom also takes "occasional" valium. For how long, I have no idea. I only know because she jokingly asked me the other day if I could refill her prescription. I told her to take a hike. Although, in her case, I can actually see why she might need it. She has a house that is literally pouring over with decorative plates, figurines, and Christmas doodads. And then, she has that dog. I would need valium if I lived like that too.

 

[nancysinatra]

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/10/20/pets-allowed

I actually read that article a few years ago, when it first came out. It's the one where the author goes around with an alpaca. That's probably where I got the idea for a wild emotional support animal in the first place! Either that, or I was thinking about my brother. It occurs to me, my mom might be able to get him counted as an emotional support animal too. In a lot of ways, he acts kind of like a pet. He's the proverbial younger sibling who never really got out on his own entirely. Of course, he is as loyal to my mom as they come. And like pets, he doesn't clean up after himself. If she could get him registered as an emotional support animal, he could get free air fare - to anywhere!

 

[nancysinatra]

Maybe your Mum and my Mum should get together, we could start a betting pool on how many times the words 'black dog' can be used in a single conversation. Heck I'll even supply wood and nails for the crosses I'm sure they'll both invariably want to climb up on at some point.

Seeing as you use the word "mum" I think we are on different continents. Are emotional support animals allowed on international flights?

 

[nancysinatra]

Might be helpful...

So if the only one that is covered under the ADA is service dogs, how did emotional support animals get to where they can evade "no pets" policies? Is there a law about that somewhere?

 

[Ceke2002]

Seeing as you use the word "mum" I think we are on different continents. Are emotional support animals allowed on international flights?

Yes I'm in Australia, and emotional support animals might be allowed on international flights but it takes between 6 and 24 months to travel to Australia with an animal in tow, once you've completed all the customs requirements - unless of course you're a certain Hollywood celeb, in which case the rules don't apply to you.

I believe Mothers are easier to ship. Just make sure you poke a few air holes in the packing crate.

 

[cookymonster]

https://www.animallaw.info/article/faqs-emotional-support-animals#s7
14. Can a person have more than one service or emotional support animal?
While there do not seem to be any cases dealing with the issue of multiple emotional support animals, the basic requirements for this reasonable accommodation would still be the same. In other words, if a person were claiming the need for multiple emotional support animals, then he or she would need documentation supporting this need from his or her physician or medical professional. The practitioner would need to provide documentation that each support animal alleviated some symptom of the disability.

Imagine the possibilities! Based on that New Yorker article, one of our garden variety borderpolar PTSD patients with ADHD could come up with enough permutations of symptoms to stage a real-life Snakes on a Plane sequel.

 

[Ceke2002]

Imagine the possibilities! Based on that New Yorker article, one of our garden variety borderpolar PTSD patients with ADHD could come up with enough permutations of symptoms to stage a real-life Snakes on a Plane sequel.

Funnily enough I have a friend who suffers from depression, and surrounds herself with all manner of creepy crawlies that she adores - snakes, lizards, giant hissing cockroaches, spiders, scorpions, etc etc. As strange as it might sound to a lot of people, they do bring her a great deal of comfort and joy. Although mind you she also works at a natural history museum, and none of her menagerie are listed as 'emotional support animals'.

 

[oldanddone]

Imagine the possibilities! Based on that New Yorker article, one of our garden variety borderpolar PTSD patients with ADHD could come up with enough permutations of symptoms to stage a real-life Snakes on a Plane sequel.

For this patient, adjunctive therapy for a regular sleep schedule would include nightly playing of Samuel Jackson reading the adult version 'now go the f*@$ to sleep. An excellent nurturing of the inner child,calming the cptsd knowing Samuel got your back. And all the snakes shenanigans can be put aside. Until tomorrow....dA da daaaaah. Look out world

https://www.google.ca/search?q=samu...droid-bell-ca&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8

 

[smalltownpsych]

Yep if I'd do anything necessary to bring my mutts with me so I'm on board with that strategy despite the shame. At least your Mom was being given SSRIs. My 86yo father with no documented psych hx recently informed me the VA gave him temazepam for his "anxiety". My guess is it would be unlikely he is drug seeking, culturally we are more the "just apply a tourniquet and the bleeding will eventually stop" type people, but who knows. In any event I was furious and am tempted to place a call. Its not really my business but one fall and he's in the crapper.

Don't worry, after he falls they will just add opiates to the mix for the pain. I'm actually not joking, have already seen this in four family members who are older and two of them are dead because of it. Fortunately my dad and aunt figured out that they don't tolerate opiates well since they are both over 80 and are more afraid of falling than pain. They just tell the docs it's an allergy although it is really just a known effect in the elderly that somehow or other the docs don't see. Probably because they think all the old people have dementia. In reality, sick people get anxious which is why they went to the doc and older people with slower processing can't think clearly or quickly when anxious. Also when you are young and sick, you assume you're going to be fine, but it gets a bit scarier when you are 80 plus.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Anyone else run into the situation where your parents dump their psychic woes on you and you really aren't sure you want to hear it??

No, but that sounds really frustrating and it sucks you are having to deal with her baggage.

 

[erg923]

No, but that sounds really frustrating and it sucks you are having to deal with her baggage.

I always refer any non patients, family members included, to this:

 

[psychMDhopefully]

Why do you hate you mom so much?

 

[erg923]

Why do you hate you mom so much?

hate?

 

[smalltownpsych]

Yeah, hate is a really strong word and it is actually pretty normal to have frustration with your parent's behaviors that you don't like. In fact, the closer you are to someone, the more you tend to care about it. Expressing those frustrations with people who might validate that it is indeed difficult at times to have parents while using a bit of humor is an adaptive coping strategy.

 

[erg923]

Yeah, hate is a really strong word and it is actually pretty normal to have frustration with your parent's behaviors that you don't like. In fact, the closer you are to someone, the more you tend to care about it. Expressing those frustrations with people who might validate that it is indeed difficult at times to have parents while using a bit of humor is an adaptive coping strategy.

I LOVE my mommy. But a long lunch with her is taxing.

 

[Ceke2002]

Yeah, hate is a really strong word and it is actually pretty normal to have frustration with your parent's behaviors that you don't like. In fact, the closer you are to someone, the more you tend to care about it. Expressing those frustrations with people who might validate that it is indeed difficult at times to have parents while using a bit of humor is an adaptive coping strategy.

Agreed. I think very, very few people who say they hate their parents (not that I think anyone's outright said that on here) mean it literally, even those of us who might have good reason to. Over the years my Mum has abused me, denigrated me, belittled me, treated me as a narcissistic extension of herself, frustrated the living day lights out of me at times and just absolutely **** me to tears - but she is still my Mother and I don't hate her. Sure I might hate her behaviour, but that's not the same as hating her. So yeah, every so often I'll toss out a few quips or make some eye rollingingly sarcastic remark about frustrating Mothers, and you're right it is an adaptive coping mechanism, and one that's a damn sight preferable to some alternatives I can think of. None of it means I don't actually care; heck if I didn't care I wouldn't be feeling fed up and frustrated in the first place, I just wouldn't give a ****.

 

[WisNeuro]

Perhaps your mother would benefit from a trip to the Amen clinic. They can diagnose her with a variety of neurological ailments and then offer proprietary "cures" for said ailments. They'll even explain everything with pretty color images and plenty of pseudoscientific jargon!

 

[666357]

crack wise all you want

i'm sure at least half the shrinks posting on this forum have written such letters

my guess is that you have a folder on your desktop with a Word template with boilerplate language, and that after the pt pays 50 bucks you type their name in the blanks and print it out...

 

[smalltownpsych]

crack wise all you want

i'm sure at least half the shrinks posting on this forum have written such letters

my guess is that you have a folder on your desktop with a Word template with boilerplate language, and that after the pt pays 50 bucks you type their name in the blanks and print it out...

Correct except for the charging 50 bucks part. The patient pays more than that for the session itself. The pet letter or other letters requested is no extra charge. Anyway, is there a point here that I am missing?

 

[WisNeuro]

If I'm going to sell my integrity to write a letter for this nonsense, it's going to take a lot more than $50. I'm not a grad student anymore, $50 won't even buy a decent bottle of mid-level scotch.

 

[666357]

Correct except for the charging 50 bucks part. The patient pays more than that for the session itself. The pet letter or other letters requested is no extra charge. Anyway, is there a point here that I am missing?

who doesn't charge to fill out forms or write letters? why pass up on easy revenue? your charting

 

[666357]

If I'm going to sell my integrity to write a letter for this nonsense, it's going to take a lot more than $50. I'm not a grad student anymore, $50 won't even buy a decent bottle of mid-level scotch.

and re: integrity...so you don't think a little lap dog improves people's moods? are you kidding? i'd rather have my dogs than a pill any day. i'm lucky enough to choose where i live. not everyone is. it'd be unbearable for some people to have to make a choice between a companion pet and a roof over their heads.
screw your "integrity".
and scotch tastes like dirt, only pretentious sob's who think they're better than everyone else delude themselves into thinking that garbage tastes good.[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

 

[WisNeuro]

Having pets improves mood. Calling it a "service animal " above and beyond that hasn't yet been shown to do jack. Just a waste of healthcare expense at this point. Not the only waste, but one that I'd rather not reinforce. Go get your placebo elsewhere, on someone else's dime. Mmm, scotch tastes like high SES, so good once it hits your lips

 

[666357]

Having pets improves mood. Calling it a "service animal " above and beyond that hasn't yet been shown to do jack. Just a waste of healthcare expense at this point. Not the only waste, but one that I'd rather not reinforce. Go get your placebo elsewhere, on someone else's dime. Mmm, scotch tastes like high SES, so good once it hits your lips

i call it an "emotional support animal" and "service animals" may be something different?
i'm talking about someone's pet

you agree pets help improve people's moods

so why not advocate for your patients and write the letter so the poor little 'ol lady can have poochy live with her in her apartment
i don't need a peer reviewed study to tell me that makes sense and is good medicine

and scotch still tastes like garbage... you are indeed totally delusional
at least it's not bizarre and it's fairly harmless
but you know as well as i do that no matter how much i tell you that it's garbage you'll continue to swear by the swill

 

[WisNeuro]

Because the designation of an emotional or support animal conveys certain legal protections (e.g., animal in buildings, free or discounted pet travel fees, etc). If someone merely wants to have a pet, they can go down to the pound or pick up a stray. If they can't afford that for some reason, plenty of other free activities abound that can positively alter mood that do not require continued upkeep costs. Emotional support animals are neither good sense nor good medicine in many cases. Just people who want pets, but want them subsidized.

 

[erg923]

i call it an "emotional support animal" and "service animals" may be something different?
i'm talking about someone's pet

you agree pets help improve people's moods

so why not advocate for your patients and write the letter so the poor little 'ol lady can have poochy live with her in her apartment

Because other people have rights too, right? Who the hell am I to dictate to some poor landlord/property company that they have to change their policy cause Suzy would benefit from having a pet cause I said so. Its their business, and I don't think I have the right to attempt to dictate their business policies, and I'm always curious why other people would feel comfortable in doing so.

 

[OldPsychDoc]

@Down Home --I was with you when advocating for pets, but how dare you malign the Libation of Heaven in such a way!

 

[666357]

Because other people have rights too, right? Who the hell am I to dictate to some poor landlord/property company that they have to change their policy cause Suzy would benefit from having a pet cause I said so. Its their business, and I don't think I have the right to attempt to dictate their business policies, and I'm always curious why other people would feel comfortable in doing so.

yeah, i totally agree with you- i'm all for free enterprise.
the letters aren't legally binding
most landlords are just accommodating if the resident presents a doctor's letter
the patients know the policy before they come to you for the letter
the landlords can refuse

 

[666357]

@Down Home --I was with you when advocating for pets, but how dare you malign the Libation of Heaven in such a way!

i didn't besmirch Jack Daniels in the least bit...

 

[keifernny2]

Incorrect- Landlords can't refuse without violating Fair housing and risk getting sued. They are stuck once you write that letter. They can't even charge a deposit in case your Rottweiler / ESA excretes all over the carpet or require you to have insurance in case they bite the neighbor's child. Interestingly, if your pet is NOT ESA the landlord can put an insurance requirement / breed restriction on it.

Their only recourse is to sue the tenant after eviction. As we all know, many of those asking for these letters have little to no assets or income and are therefore judgement-proof.

So, yes, these letters are a big deal.


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[smalltownpsych]

My patients who ask for these letters are typically poor. Maybe poor people shouldn't have pets or maybe we just have a screwy system.

 

[keifernny2]

It's not that poor people shouldn't have pets, it's just that they should have the same requirements as everyone else does for safety purposes. Your income has no bearing on your legal requirement to have car insurance when on the road. Why are pets different? I say this as a tenant in a building where at least 5 of my neighbors have "service pit bulls" and one has attacked my dog. My apartment excludes pit bulls, but once they get their doctors letter, they can do whatever they want.

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[WisNeuro]

My patients who ask for these letters are typically poor. Maybe poor people shouldn't have pets or maybe we just have a screwy system.

Pets are not the only way we can improve the mood of our patients. I have plenty of recommendations I can make which cost nothing. If you've ever done behavioral activation with a patient, you get pretty good at figuring out a range of activities across the SES spectrum.

 

[smalltownpsych]

Pets are not the only way we can improve the mood of our patients. I have plenty of recommendations I can make which cost nothing. If you've ever done behavioral activation with a patient, you get pretty good at figuring out a range of activities across the SES spectrum.

I don't see it really from standpoint of a treatment, but in small towns anyone who rents has to have a letter for their pet and this disproportionately affects poor people. Maybe it is just a little of my social justice warrior showing.

 

[WisNeuro]

I don't see it really from standpoint of a treatment, but in small towns anyone who rents has to have a letter for their pet and this disproportionately affects poor people. Maybe it is just a little of my social justice warrior showing.

My persona of adhering to empirically supported treatments overrides my persona of SJW every time. This would be akin to me saying that someone's mTBI is causing their psychological and cognitive problems, resulting in unemployability, despite failed validity tests, and that they deserve a bump up in their service connection. I don't manufacture unnecessary and unvalidated recommendations to try and offset psychosocial injustices.

 

[Crayola227]

Dunno what to say.

Some people's lifespans are measured by the years left their pet has.