SOAP 2014 Thread

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Which field are you trying to SOAP into?

  • Total voters
    60
  • Poll closed .
cognitus said:
You lied. The programs didn't technically lie unless there are some unfilled spots for SOAP. They may have ranked you, but not high enough to match at those programs.
Click to expand...

How did the pp lie? Also he/she specifically said that they both ended up in SOAP. Meaning the poster and the program.
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Mapplicant said:
I think one option is Physician Assistant. There are lot of schools for those. It's 2-3 years and you can make basically 100K. You do stuff like being first assist in surgeries and also clinic work as well. So it's a"mid level" since it's somewhere below a MD but above say a medical tech/assistant.
Click to expand...

They will have a hard time finding a PA school to take them since most don't like taking in those that either failed to match or couldn't complete medical school.
 
EEL08 said:
How did the pp lie? Also he/she specifically said that they both ended up in SOAP. Meaning the poster and the program.
Click to expand...
Maybe he thought he actually told all the programs that they were "#1", rather than what he actually said: i.e. that he wished he had done that.
 
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Fail to match is such a stigma. With residency spots at a premium, med students are a dime a dozen. PDs don't give a **** about you.
 
cognitus said:
I didn't get the sense that those same programs also ended up having unfilled spots. If they did, then they lied too.
Click to expand...

How could you not get the sense that that program had unfilled spots? The poster said that both he/she AND THE PROGRAM are in the SOAP.
 
nothing, nada, complete radiosilence.

what are some things I can do in the upcoming year to both improve my app as well as make some money?

anybody have any suggestions?
 
Hi guys,

For those of you who got someplace to go this year, congrats! Thank the lucky stars this is over for you.

For those who got nada, I empathize because I was in your shoes last year.

About me: Middling to below average AMG with non-stellar boards scores, good LORs and Rotation evals. I tried to match into IM in the 2013 match. Obviously didn’t match in Main, SOAP, and mini scramble after SOAP.

What I did immediately:

1) Grieved – owned the feelings, dealt with them, talked to counseling and friends during match week and a couple of days after. Don’t wallow in self-pity (too long).

2) Navel gazed – did I want to try again? How passionate am I about medicine? Can I recommit?

3) Talked to IM PD in my school and the “community” IM program affiliated with my school. Got feedback on what their advice would be as to what I should do if I want try again. The answers I got: A) Do an MPH and B) Find a research position. Along with that, I would have to demonstrate commitment to medicine somehow (volunteer at a free medical clinic, find shadowing experiences, etc.)

4) I talked to my Letter Writers, and flat out asked them if I could have their support again if I tried next time (they said yes).

5) I decided to recommit. I cared about medicine too much (and my loans were too big) to not try again. I did, however, make this decision with the following caveat: if I did not Match the 2nd time I WOULD NOT try again. The second time I was going for broke.

What I did over the year:

1) Since I was going for broke and was determined to match, I decided I cared enough about being a doctor that I would dual apply – both IM and FM

2) To that end, I talked with my school's FM program director about my situation and to put out feelers as to how FM PDs would receive my application. Obviously FM’s concern would be whether I was actually committed to becoming a Family Practitioner. To me, I was committed to being a physician and FM naturally fit into that mix.

3) This was an EXPENSIVE decision – I chose to postpone graduation one semester so that I could take another FM and IM rotation and hopefully do well and get fresh letters (especially for FM). In addition these were the added benefits: A) I would still be covered by my school’s trainee malpractice insurance so that I could volunteer as a training clinician at our free medical clinic and student run clinics, and B) I would have concrete evidence about my dedication to medicine, learning, and continuing patient contact. I did not take the above the decision lightly. I talked with PDs and other physician-mentors I trusted. It also took some convincing of the Dean of student affairs and the Registrar.

4) I found a research position. At first I was contacting anyone who had a lab. But then I decided to play to my strengths and interests. I knew I wanted to get into pulm/crit care and I had basic science experience. I cold contacted a PI doing basic pulm research. I laid out my situation and he took me on. I was upfront about me still being enrolled in school, and needing to be away for a couple rotations as well as the time off I would have to take for interviews. The work has been hard but rewarding. And, I got an LOR from it.

What I did for Match 2014:

1) APPLY ON TIME. I got my applications in late last year, and I think that hurt.

2) This is gonna be a numbers game and, again, EXPENSIVE. I kid you not. I dual applied to FM and IM for a grand total of 245 applications. You read that right. It cost, but I had my family’s support. I did discriminate somewhat, I definitely avoided obvious reach programs.

3) That gamble paid off (sorta, depends on your perspective) because I got ~50 interview invites. The proportion of FM:IM invites was the same as FM/IM split of my applications.

4) I went on 32 interviews, both FM/IM. That cost, also. But hey, I said I was going for broke and I was determined to maximize my chances.

5) I had to shift gears constantly between IM and FM. I had to make sure I demonstrated utter passion and commitment to the field I was interviewing for. I will make no excuses, this was disingenuous. However, my rationale is that PDs will do what is right for the program (i.e. self-interest) and you have to do what is right for you.

6) I was surprised that there actually were several FM programs that really impressed me and I ended up ranking them pretty high (given my primary interest in IM). High enough such that I would not be surprised if I match into FM.

7) I tried my absolute best to e-mail thank-yous and “love notes” in a timely fashion. With this many interviews I did screw up once: in my e-mails to an IM program I really liked, I referred to them by the wrong institution’s name. In my defense, I was exhausted and the names were quite similar. PUT EXTREMELY LOW TRUST IN WHAT THEY SAY TO YOU. It’s just the game that has to be played.

8) GET THAT RANK LIST IN! If you don’t, you have absolutely no one to blame but yourself.

9) As match day approached, I felt confident that I had done everything in my power to maximize my chances. This firmed my resolve that if I did not match this time around, then it was not meant to be and I would not try again.

10) I made peace with the fact that I have massive debt, and that I would just find a way to pay it back some other way if I did not practice medicine.


Regarding that last part: We are all smart, competent, and capable. None of us would have finished Med School otherwise. Trust me, I did not feel that way last year during Match Week. But promise me and yourself that – eventually – you will remember that fundamental truth. How I handled this past year is not for everyone, but no one could doubt my dedication and resilience.

Talk to people. Get as much advice as you can, then lay out a road-map for how you want to proceed. Maybe some of you will try the Match again. Others may chose to redirect their life. Note: I won’t call it quitting. It’s not. It is making a rational decision regarding what is right for you.

BTW, I Matched. If you have questions, I’ll try to field them.
 
Last edited:
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cheezwiz said:
Hi guys,

For those of you who got someplace to go this year, congrats! Thank the lucky stars this is over for you.

For those who got nada, I empathize because I was in your shoes last year.

About me: Middling to below average AMG with non-stellar boards scores, good LORs and Rotation evals. I tried to match into IM in the 2013 match. Obviously didn’t match in Main, SOAP, and mini scramble after SOAP.

What I did immediately:

1) Grieved – owned the feelings, dealt with them, talked to counseling and friends during match week and a couple of days after. Don’t wallow in self-pity (too long).

2) Navel gazed – did I want to try again? How passionate am I about medicine? Can I recommit?

3) Talked to IM PD in my school and the “community” IM program affiliated with my school. Got feedback on what their advice would be as to what I should do if I want try again. The answers I got: A) Do an MPH and B) Find a research position. Along with that, I would have to demonstrate commitment to medicine somehow (volunteer at a free medical clinic, find shadowing experiences, etc.)

4) I talked to my Letter Writers, and flat out asked them if I could have their support again if I tried next time (they said yes).

5) I decided to recommit. I cared about medicine too much (and my loans were too big) to not try again. I did, however, make this decision with the following caveat – If I did not Match the 2nd time I WOULD NOT try again. The second time I was going for broke.

What I did over the year:

1) Since I was going for broke and was determined to match, I decided I cared enough about being a doctor that I would dual apply – both IM and FM

2) To that end, I talked with my school's FM program director about my situation and to put out feelers as to how FM PDs would receive my application. Obviously FM’s concern would be whether I was actually committed to becoming a Family Practitioner. To me, I was committed to being a physician and FM naturally fit into that mix.

3) This was an EXPENSIVE decision – I chose to postpone graduation one semester so that I could take another FM and IM rotation and hopefully do well and get fresh letters (especially for FM). In addition these were the added benefits: A) I would still be covered by my school’s trainee malpractice insurance so that I could volunteer as a training clinician at our free medical clinic and student run clinics, and B) I would have concrete evidence about my dedication to medicine, learning, and continuing patient contact. I did not take the above the decision lightly. I talked with PDs and other physician-mentors I trusted. It also took some convincing of the Dean of student affairs and the Registrar.

4) I found a research position. At first I was contacting anyone who had a lab. But then I decided to play to my strengths and interests. I knew I wanted to get into pulm/crit care and I had basic science experience. I cold contacted a PI doing basic pulm research. I laid out my situation and he took me on. I was upfront about me still being enrolled in school, and needing to be away for a couple rotations as well as the time off I would have to take for interviews. The work has been hard but rewarding. And, I got an LOR from it.

What I did for Match 2014:

1) APPLY ON TIME. I got my applications in late last year, and I think that hurt.

2) This is gonna be a numbers game and, again, EXPENSIVE. I kid you not. I dual applied to FM and IM for a grand total of 245 applications. You read that right. It cost, but I had my family’s support. I did discriminate somewhat, I definitely avoided obvious reach programs.

3) That gamble paid off (sorta, depends on your perspective) because I got ~50 interview invites. The proportion of FM:IM invites was the same as FM/IM split of my applications.

4) I went on 32 interviews, both FM/IM. That cost, also. But hey, I said I was going for broke and I was determined to maximize my chances.

5) I had to shift gears constantly between IM and FM. I had to make sure I demonstrated utter passion and commitment to the field I was interviewing for. I will make no excuses, this is disingenuous. However, my rationale is that PDs will do what is right for the program (i.e. self-interest) and you have to do what is right for you.

6) I was surprised that there actually were several FM programs that really impressed me and I ended up ranking them pretty high (given my primary interest in IM). High enough such that I would not be surprised if I match into FM.

7) I tried my absolute best to e-mail thank-yous and “love notes” in a timely fashion. With this many interviews I did screw up once: in my e-mails to an IM program I really liked, I referred to them by the wrong institution’s name. In my defense, I was exhausted and the names were quite similar. PUT EXTREMELY LOW TRUST IN WHAT THEY SAY TO YOU. It’s just the game that has to be played.

8) GET THAT RANK LIST IN! If you don’t, you have absolutely no one to blame but yourself.

9) As match day approached, I felt confident that I had done everything in my power to maximize my chances. This firmed my resolve that if I did not match this time around, then it was not meant to be and I would not try again.

10) I made peace with the fact that I had massive debt, and that I would just find a way to pay it back some other way if I did not practice medicine.


Regarding that last part: We are all smart, competent, and capable. None of us would have finished Med School otherwise. Trust me, I did not feel that way last year during Match Week. But promise me and yourself that – eventually – you will remember that fundamental truth. How I handled this past year is not for everyone. But no one could doubt my dedication and resilience.

Talk to people. Get as much advice as you can, then lay out a roadmap for how you want to proceed. Maybe some of you will try the Match again, others may chose to redirect their life. Note: I won’t call it quitting. It’s not. It is making a rational decision regarding what is right for you.

BTW, I Matched. If you have questions, I’ll try to field them.
Click to expand...


Fantastic! I think the best advice is to apply on the day ERAS opens.
 
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Reactions: 1 user
cheezwiz said:
Hi guys,

For those of you who got someplace to go this year, congrats! Thank the lucky stars this is over for you.

For those who got nada, I empathize because I was in your shoes last year.

About me: Middling to below average AMG with non-stellar boards scores, good LORs and Rotation evals. I tried to match into IM in the 2013 match. Obviously didn’t match in Main, SOAP, and mini scramble after SOAP.

What I did immediately:

1) Grieved – owned the feelings, dealt with them, talked to counseling and friends during match week and a couple of days after. Don’t wallow in self-pity (too long).

2) Navel gazed – did I want to try again? How passionate am I about medicine? Can I recommit?

3) Talked to IM PD in my school and the “community” IM program affiliated with my school. Got feedback on what their advice would be as to what I should do if I want try again. The answers I got: A) Do an MPH and B) Find a research position. Along with that, I would have to demonstrate commitment to medicine somehow (volunteer at a free medical clinic, find shadowing experiences, etc.)

4) I talked to my Letter Writers, and flat out asked them if I could have their support again if I tried next time (they said yes).

5) I decided to recommit. I cared about medicine too much (and my loans were too big) to not try again. I did, however, make this decision with the following caveat: if I did not Match the 2nd time I WOULD NOT try again. The second time I was going for broke.

What I did over the year:

1) Since I was going for broke and was determined to match, I decided I cared enough about being a doctor that I would dual apply – both IM and FM

2) To that end, I talked with my school's FM program director about my situation and to put out feelers as to how FM PDs would receive my application. Obviously FM’s concern would be whether I was actually committed to becoming a Family Practitioner. To me, I was committed to being a physician and FM naturally fit into that mix.

3) This was an EXPENSIVE decision – I chose to postpone graduation one semester so that I could take another FM and IM rotation and hopefully do well and get fresh letters (especially for FM). In addition these were the added benefits: A) I would still be covered by my school’s trainee malpractice insurance so that I could volunteer as a training clinician at our free medical clinic and student run clinics, and B) I would have concrete evidence about my dedication to medicine, learning, and continuing patient contact. I did not take the above the decision lightly. I talked with PDs and other physician-mentors I trusted. It also took some convincing of the Dean of student affairs and the Registrar.

4) I found a research position. At first I was contacting anyone who had a lab. But then I decided to play to my strengths and interests. I knew I wanted to get into pulm/crit care and I had basic science experience. I cold contacted a PI doing basic pulm research. I laid out my situation and he took me on. I was upfront about me still being enrolled in school, and needing to be away for a couple rotations as well as the time off I would have to take for interviews. The work has been hard but rewarding. And, I got an LOR from it.

What I did for Match 2014:

1) APPLY ON TIME. I got my applications in late last year, and I think that hurt.

2) This is gonna be a numbers game and, again, EXPENSIVE. I kid you not. I dual applied to FM and IM for a grand total of 245 applications. You read that right. It cost, but I had my family’s support. I did discriminate somewhat, I definitely avoided obvious reach programs.

3) That gamble paid off (sorta, depends on your perspective) because I got ~50 interview invites. The proportion of FM:IM invites was the same as FM/IM split of my applications.

4) I went on 32 interviews, both FM/IM. That cost, also. But hey, I said I was going for broke and I was determined to maximize my chances.

5) I had to shift gears constantly between IM and FM. I had to make sure I demonstrated utter passion and commitment to the field I was interviewing for. I will make no excuses, this was disingenuous. However, my rationale is that PDs will do what is right for the program (i.e. self-interest) and you have to do what is right for you.

6) I was surprised that there actually were several FM programs that really impressed me and I ended up ranking them pretty high (given my primary interest in IM). High enough such that I would not be surprised if I match into FM.

7) I tried my absolute best to e-mail thank-yous and “love notes” in a timely fashion. With this many interviews I did screw up once: in my e-mails to an IM program I really liked, I referred to them by the wrong institution’s name. In my defense, I was exhausted and the names were quite similar. PUT EXTREMELY LOW TRUST IN WHAT THEY SAY TO YOU. It’s just the game that has to be played.

8) GET THAT RANK LIST IN! If you don’t, you have absolutely no one to blame but yourself.

9) As match day approached, I felt confident that I had done everything in my power to maximize my chances. This firmed my resolve that if I did not match this time around, then it was not meant to be and I would not try again.

10) I made peace with the fact that I have massive debt, and that I would just find a way to pay it back some other way if I did not practice medicine.


Regarding that last part: We are all smart, competent, and capable. None of us would have finished Med School otherwise. Trust me, I did not feel that way last year during Match Week. But promise me and yourself that – eventually – you will remember that fundamental truth. How I handled this past year is not for everyone, but no one could doubt my dedication and resilience.

Talk to people. Get as much advice as you can, then lay out a road-map for how you want to proceed. Maybe some of you will try the Match again. Others may chose to redirect their life. Note: I won’t call it quitting. It’s not. It is making a rational decision regarding what is right for you.

BTW, I Matched. If you have questions, I’ll try to field them.
Click to expand...


you should copy paste this and make its own thread. soem good advice here. or it will get lost in this one....since its already on page 15.
 
you should copy paste this and make its own thread. soem good advice here. or it will get lost in this one....since its already on page 15.
Click to expand...

Sure, I'll do that.
 
HelpPleaseMD said:
Fantastic! I think the best advice is to apply on the day ERAS opens.
Click to expand...

This is the most important factor. I didn't match but I submitted my apps a month after eras opened. Got 3 interviews and two were prematch programs. So, this time around, I'll reapply on the first day.
 
Hopeless119 said:
This is the most important factor. I didn't match but I submitted my apps a month after eras opened. Got 3 interviews and two were prematch programs. So, this time around, I'll reapply on the first day.
Click to expand...
I don't think so... This could be true only under these assumptions: programs download all applications on the very firs day, send all they IV invites only to these applicants and never ever check new applicants after that. And this is not happening. It's basically just some of the img's "truths" which they use to convince themselves that the problem with too little IVs and not matching was caused by that and not by the fact that their application wasn't good enough.
 
Last edited:
In the main match, do programs that do not set particular parameters for application REALLY go through all the applications before sending interview invites? or is there some sort of an inner filtering process before they even start vetting the full application (recent graduates, USMLE scores, etc?)
Its kinda important for me to know as I am an IMG older graduate.. If my application is usually tossed away without anyone looking at it I would like to know that before wasting time and effort going through the same process again next year..
anyone got any idea?
 
They are definitely not going through all the application. no way. The fact that they didn't set the parameters at their website doesn't mean they don't have any... they do. PD/PC always use the filters that ERAS is offering to them (I'm not sure what everything they can filter) to get some reasonable amount of applicants matching the expected resident's profile of their program... only after that they go through the whole app and do vetting/sending IVs. I'm not a PC nor PD but this is what I understood at SDN and this is a common logic I believe in... so yes if there is any red flag in your app that their are able to filter out in advance they will never see your whole application or even your name in the list. Unfortunately I'm not able to say what filters they can use easily and especially how these filters really work (I mean like let say filter for step 1 above 240 could cause to disappear all of the applicant who have lower score in eras.. but it could make disappear applicant who do not have a score filled too... and I guess you can see that there is a huge difference in who is going to be filtered which depends on how the filter really works)...

any PD/PC ???

And to be honest. Most of the succesful stories about matching second time you read are from US grads. This is not happening for IMGs. Or it does but only if they have any important thing missing in their app during first attempt. I mean like if they have no USCE of any kind or no US LOR or any part of Steps and so one missing then yes they can match in second time. But if you have everything at least at basic level in your app there is no way to change the result. In that case the marginal rate of improving the app is like zero I guess b/c it really doesn't matter whether you have 1 US LOR or 3... it doesn't matter whether you have 4 months of USCE or 1 year... or so. It is a red flag having none of it but marginal rate of having 1 or 3 is almost zero. Thus as an IMG you have to have all of them at least at some basic level and make a try.. if not matched then it's just waste of time and money (especially the money) to try to improve it and have another shot... That is how I believe it works.
 
SOAPapian said:
In the main match, do programs that do not set particular parameters for application REALLY go through all the applications before sending interview invites? or is there some sort of an inner filtering process before they even start vetting the full application (recent graduates, USMLE scores, etc?)
Its kinda important for me to know as I am an IMG older graduate.. If my application is usually tossed away without anyone looking at it I would like to know that before wasting time and effort going through the same process again next year..
anyone got any idea?
Click to expand...


Its like online dating. There are literally check boxes.

US Grad Check
MD Check
Step I > 22x Check
Research Check
AOA Check

anyone without checks gets a rejection letter based on a template. Its the only way they're able to filter the system since the electronic method makes it so easy to spam your app if you're willing to pay.
 
Untraditional said:
Its like online dating. There are literally check boxes.

US Grad Check
MD Check
Step I > 22x Check
Research Check
AOA Check

anyone without checks gets a rejection letter based on a template. Its the only way they're able to filter the system since the electronic method makes it so easy to spam your app if you're willing to pay.
Click to expand...

I believe that a large number of programs do it this way, but not all regard all of those criteria highly. Step scores, AOA, research, being an MD, or US grad aren't always important. Some look at the whole application, but with so many apps coming into relatively small programs, they have to cut corners just to have the manpower to sift through it all. Of course if you are one of the "top programs" (depending on how you define that), you can just use a filter.
 
About filters, they are very versatile and flexible. For step scores, I can filter for scores above or below a certain cutoff, or whether a score exists at all. I can choose what type of school, country (for international schools), year of graduation, number of research experiences, etc. ERAS does come with some built in filters, but those are very basic -- all US grads, or everyone selected for an interview, etc. Each program needs to build a filter to find what it wants. So, for example, my filter for "Applicant ready to review" is Application + Transcript + >= 3 LOR's + PS + (USMLE Step 1 or COMLEX Level 1) + MSPE. My IMG filter adds Step 2 CK.

How do I review applications? There's no way I can read all applications -- I get >2000 for only 200 or so interviews. Every program will do things differently. I start by looking to see if the applicant has ever worked / studied at my institution -- if so, I at least review their application briefly. After that, I pull out all of the applications that have USMLE scores well below our target -- they get rejected without further review. We state a USMLE minimum on our website. I then look at all applications with prior GME training at least briefly (because their YOG may be a bit in the past), and then filter out anyone whose YOG is too far in the past (also on our website). That narrows the pool, and then we start reviewing applications. This is a single example -- I'm sure each program is different.
 
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SOAPapian said:
In the main match, do programs that do not set particular parameters for application REALLY go through all the applications before sending interview invites? or is there some sort of an inner filtering process before they even start vetting the full application (recent graduates, USMLE scores, etc?)
Its kinda important for me to know as I am an IMG older graduate.. If my application is usually tossed away without anyone looking at it I would like to know that before wasting time and effort going through the same process again next year..
anyone got any idea?
Click to expand...
Yes its true thats its harder for an IMG, I am also an IMG; but its also true that if you know people in the system that can get you at least an interview you have a good chance to get them to see your whole application. I applied very late this year bc I took my CS in Dec. and still got an interview at a place where I did research. I didn't match but then again I only applied to 2 programs. I graduated 6 yrs ago and this is a filter in many programs.
 
still illegal to talk? did gen surg at baylor have any spots in the soap? any tx anesthesia programs?
 
Last edited:
thanks everyone who had answered my question
 
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I understand that this is an outdated thread, but I am going through the SOAP this year for categorical IM. I was wondering, does anyone know if SOAP offers were only given to people who received phone interviews or email communication? Did anyone get an offer who did not hear from a program initially?
 
flower12345 said:
I understand that this is an outdated thread, but I am going through the SOAP this year for categorical IM. I was wondering, does anyone know if SOAP offers were only given to people who received phone interviews or email communication? Did anyone get an offer who did not hear from a program initially?
Click to expand...

Yes, I've been scanning through some of these old threads and there were people who got offers without being contacted first. Hang in there.
 
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