It's going to take a little while for the dust to settle. Definitely check frequently, but don't expect anything to show up immediately. There are always a few matched residents who have to drop out because they ended up not passing Step 2 CS or CK in order to graduate on time and can't get another exam scheduled in time to have results by July 1st. A few have a change of heart about specialty and apply to NRMP for a waiver. A few are IMGs whose visas are delayed beyond the point their program is willing to wait. Once that happens, programs will post the positions and be flooded with applications. You'll want to be an early responder, so be prepared with a pdf of your ERAS application, updated CV, USMLE scores, medical school transcript and diploma, MSPE, and letters of recommendation if you can get them. At the very least, let your letter writers know your status and see if they will agree to send the letters if requested.
SOAP 2015
- Thread starter seap3
- Start date
It's going to take a little while for the dust to settle. Definitely check frequently, but don't expect anything to show up immediately. There are always a few matched residents who have to drop out because they ended up not passing Step 2 CS or CK in order to graduate on time and can't get another exam scheduled in time to have results by July 1st. A few have a change of heart about specialty and apply to NRMP for a waiver. A few are IMGs whose visas are delayed beyond the point their program is willing to wait. Once that happens, programs will post the positions and be flooded with applications. You'll want to be an early responder, so be prepared with a pdf of your ERAS application, updated CV, USMLE scores, medical school transcript and diploma, MSPE, and letters of recommendation if you can get them. At the very least, let your letter writers know your status and see if they will agree to send the letters if requested.
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May I ask, how do we get a hold of our MSpE and transcript to be sent to programs we'll be privately applying to?
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Your school
FWIW, I'm a DO student, now applying to DO internships. I sent in 2 applications so far via eras, but only had to pay $95 for the first one. So I'm hoping that it's just a $95 one time fee. At this point I really don't care about the money, but I was shaking my head the whole time I was entering my credit card numbers, ugh.
DO in training here.
Literally walked into the DME's office at 5:10pm with my paperwork in hand. Offered me a TRI on the spot. Phones were ringing off the hook.
Keep fighting! And show face - I'm pretty sure that is the ONLY reason he gave me a spot.
Literally walked into the DME's office at 5:10pm with my paperwork in hand. Offered me a TRI on the spot. Phones were ringing off the hook.
Keep fighting! And show face - I'm pretty sure that is the ONLY reason he gave me a spot.
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It's easier said than done. All of the openings are out of state for me.
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what's a DME? or a TRI? Is it something DO specific? If not I'm sure I've heard it before and just not figuring out what it is at the moment.
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Should you decide that you want to leave medicine, look into IBR. You need to work for a non-profit, but you will only pay back your loan based on your income. As it stands now, the debt will be forgiven in 10 years if you work for a non-profit the whole time. That could change though. It's unclear if it'll affect past loans if it does change.
To the above poster, DME = director of medical education. TRI = traditional rotating internship (prelim year, basically).
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thanks!
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This may be the one time where being a DO is advantageous to being an AMG. There are still a decent number of AOA opportunities, and there has already been an AOA scramble.
Go get it my DO friends!
Go get it my DO friends!
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Not trying to antagonize you, but are you still pursuing medicine for the right reasons? Or is pride what's keeping you going?
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I ask myself that question every day. It still just feels. . ."right", for lack of a better word. When I studied for Step 3 last summer, I got so excited in my reading. I had forgotten how COOL medicine is! It was all I talked about for a solid month at least. When I have conversations with my physician friends or with friends with medical questions (although I ALWAYS tell them to go see their doctor if they have real concerns), I get so into it and remember how much I love it. If it were just about the money, I'd say "eff it" and go work for McKinsey. If it were pride, I'd just quit and claim I "did it for the children" (which is actually kinda sorta true, but not really). No, I really do want to practice medicine. I want to practice clinical medicine and I don't want to do anything else. I don't want to research, I don't want to write (although I do have a BA in English), I want to get my hands dirty every day and see patients with all kinds of interesting goodies and forget where I am or what time it is because I haven't checked the clock since I walked into the office this morning.
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Yep for my fellow 2015'ers there are:
-200+ FM spots (stopped counting at 204)
-100+ IM spots
-8 EM spots
-5 Gen Surg
-5 Peds
-1 Derm
-1 Gas
-2 Rads
-1 Neurosurg
I'm sure the website needs some updating but these were afraid the numbers just now.
I'll bet there aren't even enough DO's still looking to even come close to filling the FM spots.
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You might be right. But this year...
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Better quality in general. No OMM which is big for some (lots) of DO grads.
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Then you have no other choice but to continue to fight. I really hope that you get your spot.
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Yes but something that most people dont consider, remember or realize is that if you sign up for the the ten year loan repayement programs out there, you dont necessarily have to be working in a "clinical" setting to be forgiven of your loans at the end of the 10 years. A friend of mine was having a lot of difficulty matching (I believe he applied 3 times already) and he recently started a job working for a non-profit organization that coordinates organ donations.... point is that even though hes not working as a "practicing/licensed physician" it still counts towards the 10 years. Even if he never gets residency (hopefully he will and I think he will soon) you are NOT STUCK WITH ALL THE DEBT FOREVER...there are options guys!!!
The way he sees it hes going to continue to apply for a few more years and if he matches he'll be a few years into his 10 years and if not he still be a few years into his 10 years knowing that hes not stuck forever with this loan..
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Yes. The numbers are probably a little off because I just noticed that advanced positions are in there with the general ones. But this is the gist of what DO's who haven't been able to SOAP have available to them.
And most of them got spots in the SOAP already anyway.
My friend and classmate got one of the 7 or so ER spots yesterday for cryin' out loud. Every DO that I know of personally got something already. I'm sure there are some who didn't, but they have good options still available now!
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Wow, you're a real class act you know @SouthernSurgeon. You probably remember me because I remember you when I was going through my resignation and the match process; you are honestly an awful person. I can see you taking your cynical one liners on me on my thread but I cannot imagine you would stoop so low as the belittle people on a SOAP forum while they are dealing with something I cannot even imagine going through; and I have been through quite an ordeal.
Well, in case you are wondering I matched without your help and I can't wait to open that email tomorrow to a University program of my dreams.
I was just reading this thread at my leisure just to reflect on where I have been and trying to relate with what these people are going through. You have NO right to participate in any of these conversations and as far as I am concerned, you are the type of person who is actively seeking out vulnerable people and rubbing salt in the wound.
I just wanted to let you know that as good as you think you are, all you are is a bored person with nothing but smartass comments that you dish out to people who are already hurting; you really should take a close look in the mirror and reevaluate what your value really is on this planet.
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yah. what i really cannot comprehend is how a surgery resident has enough time to post as prolifically as he does. at some point you realize there are very few people driving these forums, and they are deeply unusual people who apparently commit enormous time to this online world. to take any of this as seriously as they do would be a grave mistake.
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Yep, DO spots for DO's only. Like I said, the end of SOAP week and still unmatched may be the one time it's better to be a DO than a USMD.
Situations like this make me advise everyeone to go DO vs Carribean ...I along with 20 of my unmatched classmates (who did not receive offers after the SOAP) were succesffuly able to scramble into spots...had we been carribean grads we would have been screwed.
NEVER GO CARRIBBEAN! BAD BAD BAD decision.
NEVER GO CARRIBBEAN! BAD BAD BAD decision.
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Leave him alone. Some of us just don't sugarcoat the truth.(not referring to your situation since I have no idea what happened)
Sometimes bad luck leads to failure...many people who did not match in this cycle including myself had good scores, good letters, no red flags we just purely got unlucky due to the # of qualified applicants and not being very strategic when making our ROL....calling people failures is messed up...i know several people who failed boards first time and still matched, so how are we any more of a failure than they are? A lot of it is luck and some of us are not very lucky unfortunately.
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He already apologized. He gives great advice 99% of the time and is generally very helpful in the forum. There is no need for the personal insults.
I wish you luck tomorrow but please tone it down a bit.
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lol, coming off just a tad judgemental here my friend.
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Twenty of your classmates went unmatched? How many people are in your graduating class? The match is getting scarier every year.
I'm already scared for 2017.
Our class is about 180... Yeah its crazy...the people who got screwed over where those trying to match out on the west coast ( regardless of specialty, FM/IM/PEDs and of course the ortho/derm/optho crowd
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How were those spots found? On the "Unfilled positions" tab in NRMP?
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Been reading this thread as well. Just wanted to share my experience if it helps.
I didn't match last year, was unsuccessful with the SOAP, and matched this year. The entire SOAP process last year was heartbreaking. Had a few phone calls but no offers. Since I was doing an away rotation at that time and had no friends in the area I spent the whole SOAP week and the next few weeks thinking about what I would tell my parents, my siblings and friends, about having to go home for a year with no residency. Ultimately time passed, I cried and vented, then sucked it up and forced myself to move on. I was also fortunate to find another SDNer to help me through the year.
Before I graduated and moved back home I looked for jobs I could do. I went on Craiglist to browse and applied for some research assistant and medical assistant positions just to stay in the medical field. Fortunately I got a few replies and was able to line up a few interviews. I ultimately got a job working for a doctor who needed help with "paper work"--I basically worked as a scribe in addition to a few other tasks.
I ultimately took step 3 and reapplied for the match. This year I made sure to get a few more LORs, made sure to do everything right with the application, made sure my scores were in, and made sure I had a better personal statement. The doctor I currently work for constantly gives me a pointers. What really helped me this year was my knowledge of the medical system outside of what we learn as medical students and my doctor's push for me to be more confident--transitioning me from being a med student to "doctor".
As of now my two cents would be to most definitely gather your ERAS application, transcripts, any LORs you can get and send out the massive emails to programs to consider you in case there are any unexpected openings. Definitely keep an eye out for any open positions posted on any site. In the mean time, keep on going, learn from everything that you're going through, work on improving any faults that may have affected you this cycle, and reapply if you have to.
Good luck everybody still without a position. Keep your head up. Please message me if you want to talk/vent/anything.
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You continue to have the misconception about a "strategic" ROL. That does not exist. You would have gone unmatched no matter what order you put programs in.
Is your school telling you different?
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I actually disagree, only because having gone through this last year I know that there's not much you can do in the interim year that is clinical and being a scribe is really as close as you can get to the medical decision making. They will need to know that you have been keeping up your knowledge in the time since graduation.
I also think taking my step 3 was the biggest help for my application overall....since I had already had a passing step 2 ck/cs when I applied the first time.
I got five times as many interviews this year than last. So hopefully that helps :/
I also think taking my step 3 was the biggest help for my application overall....since I had already had a passing step 2 ck/cs when I applied the first time.
I got five times as many interviews this year than last. So hopefully that helps :/
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Sigh. I was not intending to call anyone a failure. I was responding to the notion of forgiving loans if people can't match, which I thought was not a smart idea.
Again, I (a) phrased it poorly and (b) this thread is not the place for a financial aid discussion. So I apologized.
I don't really want this thread to become about me, so I'm done responding to these posts.
On a more thread appropriate note, I'm glad to hear you found a spot - I've been reading your posts all week and rooting for you.
US senior here. Several students got pulled off rotations this week for SOAP and as far as I know most got a spot and by the skin of their teeth. Our dean says competition has gotten worse and will get worse still. I have nothing but sympathy for everyone that had to endure this process, and prayers for those unmatched.
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Damn that seems like a ton of people... That's gotta be higher than average right?
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It sounds like 20 didn't get anything in SOAP and subsequently scrambled into the AOA. Everyone in my class that I'm aware of who went unmatched got something in SOAP.
It's getting very tight!
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Is DO becoming a better investment than MD? I don't think that there is any question that ceiling may not be as high (though DOs do match at elite programs)...the floor is higher. There is going to be a 100% match rate for DOs this year, unless the DOs decide to not match by choice.
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Not really. I Matched EM. Loved seeing MD's with far inferior Board Scores/Class Rank etc get triple the # of interviews I got from arguably better programs, not to mention there are a decent amount of EM programs that dont even interview DO's.
The point is moot though because of the merger that is coming up.
I would argue that at this point for Surgical Subspecialties it is better to be a DO. I have a ton of classmates that matched Ortho, Optho, ENT, Urology that would not have matched those fields outside of the DO match. Im talking about people who have board scores/grades that wouldnt have even got them into an MD EM residency and now they are going to be an Ortho.
Once the merger happens that all goes away though.
Something that someone posted last year when I was going through SOAP that helped me re-focus and work toward the future! It has been a crappy year... but I matched on Monday and that made it all worth in the end! Hopefully this helps someone as it helped me! Good Luck!
Hello guys,
I am so sorry to hear you guys didnt match- I was in your shoes last year and its a terrible feeling.
Im writing because i didnt match to IM last yr, but this year I re-applied and did. I have great advice (what I wished someone would have told me last march but I had to piece together myself)on what to do this year, and if any of you want to contact me personally please feel free to PM me. Again, I was in your shoes and I get it, its super stressful and draining, but you have no time to waste if you want to re-apply next year, you need to get started. You need to be a MUCH STRONGER applicant next year, so you need to do tons of stuff.
-this will be financially tough- you are gonna need money to do these things- move back with your parents. Get rid of your data plan, etc. My spouse supported me through the whole ordeal, but its tough if you cant afford that.
-do an MPH- most programs I interviewed at asked me about my MPH. You can do one online so you can continue through residency and you dont have to physically go. Classes are expensive. Take 1-2 classes if that's all you can afford. Ask for fin aid. They wont ask you how many classes have you taken so far when you interview next year. If you manage to enroll full time, you wont have to pay your loans for a while.
-volunteer at a community clinic. Email all community/free/shelter clinics in you area and see who will take you. See patients. Work with a Dr if you can, if not, a nurse. You need to be able to say you have not been away from patient care. Do as much as they'll let you at the clinic. Teach patients. Give a class on diabetes.
-Do research- literally email every medicine (and its sub specialties ) doctor in all academic hospitals around you and ask for a research opportunity. Clarify this is an UNPAID appointment you are looking for. Ask them if they know anyone offering research, help people write grants. Look at the hospital websites for paid research opportunities if you can find one, great. Prioritize how good it will look on your resume not how much money you will get, if you can afford that. Chose more than 1 if you can- it does not need to be in your field. Remember you are applying for a medicine spot, not a renal spot right now.
-take step 3!!!! This is especially important if your steps 1 or 2 are not stellar. You need to do well, not amazing. If you didnt match in IM you are probably not Harvard material, so dont worry about getting a 260 on step 3. Just get 220+ to show them you are a solid candidate. Do not delay taking step 3 to get a 260! You need to get this in before applications go out or ASAP afterwards.
-email every PD where you interviewed and asked them why you didnt match there. Ask them for advice. Stay in touch with those PDs that seem more receptive to you application, tell them what you are doing throughout the year, email them once every 6 months or so, including right before re-applying. If a PD tells you you were totally not up to their standards, dont apply there again, particularly if money is tight.
-email the PD at your school and ask him for advice. Ask him to critique you PS.
-Tutor if you need money (as little as you can, this is not the ideal). They want to see you are a teacher and a leader.
-Get involved in health policy- contact NIH drs for opportunities.
-apply to as many programs as you can afford next year. This means 100+. Email PDs of programs you really like 1 month before applications open to let them know you will be applying there and you love the program. Be ready to tell them why you love it (VERY SPECIFIC). Apply to more than 1 specialty, perhaps a few FM programs, perhaps peds if you like it. Be very realistic. If you have money for 150 programs, dont waste money on 50 Northwestern/Emory/UT. 5 dream ones are ok, but dont do 30 of those. Include community and university ones. If money is a limiting factor regarding your applications, DO NOT apply in NY/Chicago/LA. Programs in these areas can have the luxury of being very low quality and still getting top applicants due to location only. Applicants will turn down an invite to Mayo because its in the middle of nowhere to interview at a low quality community program in NY. Never think of programs in these locations as "safe" options.
-be ready to tell each program you interview at next year why you want to train there. I disagree you need to have questions, i think you need to be able to tell them why you love them. If they dont ask you say "I want you to know I am really serious about this program because..."
-be on top of your ERAS application, make sure all documents are in including your picture and transcript. Call your school to make sure they put everything in.
-Have an updated resume
-be ready to answer why you didnt match last year and explain all red flags on your resume. know you application in and out. Find a positive spin to everything. Emphasize what you've learned. If there is an obvious red flag that you can compensate for (lets say, you failed step 2 but now you really did well on step 3) bring it up even if they dont ask (at least to 1 interviewer at each place). Say "I imagine you might be concerned about my step 2. I want to let you know this was the problem and this is how I fixed it". Always take responsibility for the red flag. Dont say "my school didnt prepare me well... I got divorced..." say "I didnt realize how unprepared I was... I got divorced and it was hard for me to concentrate, now I know how I should have managed that more effectively and it will not happen again because Ive learned this... that this wont happen again is exemplified by..." If they dont ask it doesnt mean they dont care about it.
-Call everyone you know in the field (even remotely) to ask them to put a good word for you to get research opportunities and to get interviews when the time comes. Not the time to be shy. Send people your resume. Call that high school friend whose father works at a hospital you want to match at.
-get a credit card with point that will allow you to travel to interviews on points so you dont spend a fortune on tickets and hotels.
-Pray and be thankful for all the blessings you have
Good luck everyone! It gets better, but you gotta make the best of this year!
Hello guys,
I am so sorry to hear you guys didnt match- I was in your shoes last year and its a terrible feeling.
Im writing because i didnt match to IM last yr, but this year I re-applied and did. I have great advice (what I wished someone would have told me last march but I had to piece together myself)on what to do this year, and if any of you want to contact me personally please feel free to PM me. Again, I was in your shoes and I get it, its super stressful and draining, but you have no time to waste if you want to re-apply next year, you need to get started. You need to be a MUCH STRONGER applicant next year, so you need to do tons of stuff.
-this will be financially tough- you are gonna need money to do these things- move back with your parents. Get rid of your data plan, etc. My spouse supported me through the whole ordeal, but its tough if you cant afford that.
-do an MPH- most programs I interviewed at asked me about my MPH. You can do one online so you can continue through residency and you dont have to physically go. Classes are expensive. Take 1-2 classes if that's all you can afford. Ask for fin aid. They wont ask you how many classes have you taken so far when you interview next year. If you manage to enroll full time, you wont have to pay your loans for a while.
-volunteer at a community clinic. Email all community/free/shelter clinics in you area and see who will take you. See patients. Work with a Dr if you can, if not, a nurse. You need to be able to say you have not been away from patient care. Do as much as they'll let you at the clinic. Teach patients. Give a class on diabetes.
-Do research- literally email every medicine (and its sub specialties ) doctor in all academic hospitals around you and ask for a research opportunity. Clarify this is an UNPAID appointment you are looking for. Ask them if they know anyone offering research, help people write grants. Look at the hospital websites for paid research opportunities if you can find one, great. Prioritize how good it will look on your resume not how much money you will get, if you can afford that. Chose more than 1 if you can- it does not need to be in your field. Remember you are applying for a medicine spot, not a renal spot right now.
-take step 3!!!! This is especially important if your steps 1 or 2 are not stellar. You need to do well, not amazing. If you didnt match in IM you are probably not Harvard material, so dont worry about getting a 260 on step 3. Just get 220+ to show them you are a solid candidate. Do not delay taking step 3 to get a 260! You need to get this in before applications go out or ASAP afterwards.
-email every PD where you interviewed and asked them why you didnt match there. Ask them for advice. Stay in touch with those PDs that seem more receptive to you application, tell them what you are doing throughout the year, email them once every 6 months or so, including right before re-applying. If a PD tells you you were totally not up to their standards, dont apply there again, particularly if money is tight.
-email the PD at your school and ask him for advice. Ask him to critique you PS.
-Tutor if you need money (as little as you can, this is not the ideal). They want to see you are a teacher and a leader.
-Get involved in health policy- contact NIH drs for opportunities.
-apply to as many programs as you can afford next year. This means 100+. Email PDs of programs you really like 1 month before applications open to let them know you will be applying there and you love the program. Be ready to tell them why you love it (VERY SPECIFIC). Apply to more than 1 specialty, perhaps a few FM programs, perhaps peds if you like it. Be very realistic. If you have money for 150 programs, dont waste money on 50 Northwestern/Emory/UT. 5 dream ones are ok, but dont do 30 of those. Include community and university ones. If money is a limiting factor regarding your applications, DO NOT apply in NY/Chicago/LA. Programs in these areas can have the luxury of being very low quality and still getting top applicants due to location only. Applicants will turn down an invite to Mayo because its in the middle of nowhere to interview at a low quality community program in NY. Never think of programs in these locations as "safe" options.
-be ready to tell each program you interview at next year why you want to train there. I disagree you need to have questions, i think you need to be able to tell them why you love them. If they dont ask you say "I want you to know I am really serious about this program because..."
-be on top of your ERAS application, make sure all documents are in including your picture and transcript. Call your school to make sure they put everything in.
-Have an updated resume
-be ready to answer why you didnt match last year and explain all red flags on your resume. know you application in and out. Find a positive spin to everything. Emphasize what you've learned. If there is an obvious red flag that you can compensate for (lets say, you failed step 2 but now you really did well on step 3) bring it up even if they dont ask (at least to 1 interviewer at each place). Say "I imagine you might be concerned about my step 2. I want to let you know this was the problem and this is how I fixed it". Always take responsibility for the red flag. Dont say "my school didnt prepare me well... I got divorced..." say "I didnt realize how unprepared I was... I got divorced and it was hard for me to concentrate, now I know how I should have managed that more effectively and it will not happen again because Ive learned this... that this wont happen again is exemplified by..." If they dont ask it doesnt mean they dont care about it.
-Call everyone you know in the field (even remotely) to ask them to put a good word for you to get research opportunities and to get interviews when the time comes. Not the time to be shy. Send people your resume. Call that high school friend whose father works at a hospital you want to match at.
-get a credit card with point that will allow you to travel to interviews on points so you dont spend a fortune on tickets and hotels.
-Pray and be thankful for all the blessings you have
Good luck everyone! It gets better, but you gotta make the best of this year!
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I wouldn't go as far as to say there will be a 100% match rate. There are always a few who really shouldn't become physicians and will not find a spot even in the most non-competitive places in the AOA. But if you're at the expected level of competency at the end of medical school, right now you have little to fear in terms of missing out on a GME spot after graduation.
In no way am I being antagonistic here... but majority of AMG's simply don't want to pursue residency in fields like primary care, psych, path or pm&r etc. Which is balanced out by the foreign grads and do's who ARE willing to apply to and pursue careers in those perceived "less prestigious" (and less lucrative) fields.
Would you rather all those spots go unfilled during the regular match, simply to have "buffers" and back-up's for non-matched US MD's- and THEN offer whatever remaining spots to Do's and foreign grads that are actually interested in and dedicated to primary care (and the other less competitive fields)?
Now THAT seems counter-intuitive to me.
