SOAP 2015

[DrInLimbo]

As for ERAS each application in speciality you didn't apply before for main match is $95 whether its 1 app or 10. Apps you have applied for previously are $/app basis.

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Members don't see this ad.

 

[j4pac]

Not really. I Matched EM. Loved seeing MD's with far inferior Board Scores/Class Rank etc get triple the # of interviews I got from arguably better programs, not to mention there are a decent amount of EM programs that dont even interview DO's.


The point is moot though because of the merger that is coming up.


I would argue that at this point for Surgical Subspecialties it is better to be a DO. I have a ton of classmates that matched Ortho, Optho, ENT, Urology that would not have matched those fields outside of the DO match. Im talking about people who have board scores/grades that wouldnt have even got them into an MD EM residency and now they are going to be an Ortho.


Once the merger happens that all goes away though.

I agree that on the whole being an US MD has a higher ceiling. The numbers don't lie. US MDs have better match rates into more competitive specialties. But I would argue that DOs have a higher floor (as in...they are essentially guaranteed a residency of some type). I believe that the ACGME merger may increase the ceiling for DOs while lowering the floor, meanwhile US MDs will have maintain a high ceiling and their floor will increase. It will be a bad deal for DOs unless they find a way to block IMGs/FMGs. I know it sounds cold...but it's the truth.

 

[PMRMD2B]

This should be a warning to many students.. competition is a B****. I see many AMG's not matching, but IMG's (and DO's) getting the spots instead. It goes to show getting into a US med school shouldn't give one a false sense of security and you will still have to earn your way into a residency. At the end of the day, most programs really do want the BEST resident they can get, no matter what school name is on their diploma.

 

[DrInLimbo]

I had a question regarding contacting programs that didn't participate in SOAP (grey boxes in NRMP unfilled spots link). Are they also only considering applications through ERAS? My dean was under the impression that I could just email non-SOAP participating programs. Any help please

 

[bbg1951]

yeah I had the same concern? Are people just sending in apps via eras without any prior communication? I was under the impression you could just email your documents to them or you should wait to speak with someone.

 

[mcl]

I had a question regarding contacting programs that didn't participate in SOAP (grey boxes in NRMP unfilled spots link). Are they also only considering applications through ERAS? My dean was under the impression that I could just email non-SOAP participating programs. Any help please

Each of those programs will likely have their own preferences regarding how they want to receive applications. Check their website for application instructions first. If you don't find anything on the residency program page, call--they might have application instructions on their voice mail message. If there are still no instructions, email. Since ERAS costs $$, I'd find out the application criteria and method before blindly applying.

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

Is DO becoming a better investment than MD? I don't think that there is any question that ceiling may not be as high (though DOs do match at elite programs)...the floor is higher. There is going to be a 100% match rate for DOs this year, unless the DOs decide to not match by choice.

I don't know that I would go that far. The SOAP/scramble thread every year is a horrifying thing to read (and unfathomably worse to experience).

But the reality is that year after year 95% of US-MD students match. 80% match to one of their top 3 choices.

And among the 5% who don't match, over 2/3 of them pick up spots in the SOAP. And among the 1/3 who don't, a lot of those are because they chose to defer graduation or do research for a year to try to reapply. A good chunk of these students are competitive applicants who didn't match derm or ENT the first time around and reapply smarter the second time around and secure very good spots.

The "floor" for US-MDs is still very high. This is just a stressful time of year when all we are hearing is the bad news. The good news is coming in a few hours. Hang in there everyone.

 

[mommy2three]

AOA Post Match site
http://cf.osteopathic.org/aoapostmatch/students/index.cfm

and some of those were positions that are at dually accredited programs and rolled over to the allopathic match so they may be filled.

 

[j4pac]

delete

 

[SOAP_city USA]

I'm all about the new game plan. Some good stuff posted and I'm ready. No point in (any of us) reinventing the wheel. Might as well heed all the suggestions of these former Scramble/SOAP'ers who are now interns (or going to be) and do what they did!

Thanks! Now let's stop posting and start DOING, fellow SOAP'ers! And be back next Match, to help the others who will be where we (sadly) are now.

(P.S. - I like a majority SouthernSurgeon's posts lol)

 

[a runner]

It sounds like 20 didn't get anything in SOAP and subsequently scrambled into the AOA. Everyone in my class that I'm aware of who went unmatched got something in SOAP.

It's getting very tight!

According to the NRMP, there were ~790 DO's eligible for the SOAP last year and ~120 got spots if I remember correctly. That's ~15%. USMD's had about ~30% (600 out of 2000) finding a position. US Grads were <10% and US IMG's odds were absolutely dismal, with FMG's faring the worst.

My point is that, statistically, most DO's (85%) who are SOAP eligible don't find a spot in SOAP and have to take an open AOA spot. Fortunately there are literally hundreds of AOA spots still available only to DO's at that time in diverse specialties. Unfortunately, these spots will be opening up to USMD's and IMG's soon (2017 or 2018 I'm guessing) and likely won't be around come post-SOAP time anymore for those and future graduating classes.

According to conversations I've had with Carib students I rotate with, IMG's and their schools are well aware this is coming and are actively preparing to target these spots, so they won't be going unfilled for much longer.

 

[SLC]

According to the NRMP, there were ~790 DO's eligible for the SOAP last year and ~120 got spots if I remember correctly. That's ~15%. USMD's had about ~30% (600 out of 2000) finding a position. US Grads were <10% and US IMG's odds were absolutely dismal, with FMG's faring the worst.

My point is that, statistically, most DO's (85%) who are SOAP eligible don't find a spot in SOAP and have to take an open AOA spot. Fortunately there are literally hundreds of AOA spots still available only to DO's at that time in diverse specialties. Unfortunately, these spots will be opening up to USMD's and IMG's soon (2017 or 2018 I'm guessing) and likely won't be around come post-SOAP time anymore for those and future graduating classes.

According to conversations I've had with Carib students I rotate with, IMG's and their schools are well aware this is coming and are actively preparing to target these spots, so they won't be going unfilled for much longer.

Good info, it will be interesting to see what the numbers look like this year.

I can only speak anecdotally, but 75% of the folks I'm aware of from my class who were SOAPing found spots in the first round.

And as for the AOA spots opening to USMD's and IMG's/FMG's. It's pretty much certain that these programs will still require a yet undetermined demonstration of OMM proficiency before applying, perhaps it will be an elective course and exam that non-DO's must pass or something along those lines, but I don't expect those positions to just fill with IMG's and USMD's like some do.

Additionally, DO's have been discriminated against for decades in the allopathic GME system (and I'm of the opinion that the ACGME should protect their own just like the Osteopathic programs will so I don't resent the system at all) so I fully expect DO PD's to hold on to bias of their own for a long time. Those scars run deep.

 

[a runner]

Good info, it will be interesting to see what the numbers look like this year.

I can only speak anecdotally, but 75% of the folks I'm aware of from my class who were SOAPing found spots in the first round.

And as for the AOA spots opening to USMD's and IMG's/FMG's. It's pretty much certain that these programs will still require a yet undetermined demonstration of OMM proficiency before applying, perhaps it will be an elective course and exam that non-DO's must pass or something along those lines, but I don't expect those positions to just fill with IMG's and USMD's like some do.

Additionally, DO's have been discriminated against for decades in the GME system, I fully expect DO PD's to hold on to bias of their own for a long time. Those scars run deep.

Good points. The OMM component and DO discrimination should blunt the effect for several years at least, but I fully expect the big Carib schools to hire DO's and start offering OMM as a part of their curriculum (maybe as electives) if necessary to meet any requirements. The classes of 2017-2019 will likely only be minimally affected, but after that it will be much worse, I expect.

Congrats on finding a great spot in the SOAP by the way!

 

[SLC]

Good points. The OMM component and DO discrimination should blunt the effect for several years at least, but I fully expect the big Carib schools to hire DO's and start offering OMM as a part of their curriculum (maybe as electives) if necessary to meet any requirements. The classes of 2017-2019 will likely only be minimally affected, but after that it will be much worse, I expect.

Congrats on finding a great spot in the SOAP by the way!

It's going to be interesting to see what plays out. The old guard is definitely very proud of the DO heritage and I suspect they will do everything in their power to keep as close to the status quo as they can. I could be completely wrong though, because as we all know, money talks and the Carribean schools probably have plenty.

What will be interesting is if there is ever a combined match, or if the DO programs will maintain a separate match similar to the SF Match (only much much larger). If there is one match, I think DO's will do just fine because those programs are always going to want an Osteopathically trained applicant more than someone who took a course.

Yeah, I really don't see how this becomes a boon for IMG's. And I'm trying hard to, I have no real love for the AOA.

 

[Old&InTheWay]

This thread should have a disclaimer telling people about to start medical school not to read it. Holy cow, I am having vicarious anxiety! I was accepted into my state MD program this year after being waitlisted at the three programs that I interviewed at the previous year. It was incredibly difficult time for me, but as stressful and demoralizing as it was, it sounds insignificant compared to what some people here are going through. I know I am not really in a place to give advice, but I found some solace in the idea that the trial I was going through could perhaps give me some insight into what patients dealing with a difficult illness might experience. Anyhow, I feel for everyone who is struggling through this and wish you all luck.

 

[docmama]

Don't know if anyone is looking for a catgegorical position in general surgery, but I just got an email 30 second ago from www.residentswap.com alerting me to a new position:

Hello,

I would like to bring to your attention the PGY-1 opening in surgery that
was posted on Resident Swap earlier today. I am writing this message to
you (apart from the automated alert system), because you have previously
indicated interest in PGY-1 openings, and you may also be interested in
this position. Your search filter does not encompass this speciality or
location. If you are interested in this position, I recommend that you
log in and set your search filter to include this speciality and a large
radius. This will enable you to view this position and also to receive
automated alerts of any surgery openings in the future.

Please note that some positions may fill quickly.

--
Best Regards,
Michael Kulon, MD
ResidentSwap.org

 

[Iced]

As a DO student applying to MD programs, I can safely say there are some DO programs that are pretty busted and honestly should remain unfilled. I wouldn't be surprised if most of these smaller, poorly established DO programs have serious trouble meeting ACGME accreditation requirements as the merger starts taking place over the next couple of years.

 

[Siggy]

Is DO becoming a better investment than MD? I don't think that there is any question that ceiling may not be as high (though DOs do match at elite programs)...the floor is higher. There is going to be a 100% match rate for DOs this year, unless the DOs decide to not match by choice.

On one hand, when you look deeper most of the unfilled programs are small 200 bed, 40k year ED visit hospitals in cold territory. Will they provide adequate training? Sure. Are we talking the high volume, high pathology county or university hospitals that makes up the average ACGME program? More often then not, no.

On the other hand, a job is a job.

 

[j4pac]

On one hand, when you look deeper most of the unfilled programs are small 200 bed, 40k year ED visit hospitals in cold territory. Will they provide adequate training? Sure. Are we talking the high volume, high pathology county or university hospitals that makes up the average ACGME program? More often then not, no.

On the other hand, a job is a job.

I think that wins out.

 

[SLC]

I think that wins out.

The thing that would scare me most if I was if I was in the class of 2018 or beyond would be that if I went to one of those "a job is a job" places and it couldn't meet the ACGME standards before the deadline in 5 years that my residency would be disbanded before I could finish.

And I single out 2018 because that's the class that would have the shorter residencies in FM, Peds, and IM cancelled when they were second year residents.

 

[j4pac]

The thing that would scare me most if I was if I was in the class of 2018 or beyond would be that if I went to one of those "a job is a job" places and it couldn't meet the ACGME standards before the deadline in 5 years that my residency would be disbanded before I could finish.

And I single out 2018 because that's the class that would have the shorter residencies in FM, Peds, and IM cancelled when they were second year residents.

Of course you would have concerns...and nobody should gun for mediocrity. But it's better than nothing.

 

[IlDestriero]

I think that wins out.

The job is the foundation of your career. Take a shady low acuity and/or malignant program and you might find yourself regretting it for a loooong time.

 

[j4pac]

The job is the foundation of your career. Take a shady low acuity and/or malignant program and you might find yourself regretting it for a loooong time.

Versus not having a job? Really?

 

[IlDestriero]

If you're a fair candidate that didn't match for any number of reasons and can improve your application, scrambling into some crap residency that barely meets accreditation standards and case minimums is probably not the best way to start a career. I'd take my chances next year first. You want solid training before you go out and take on the liability and responsibility of being an attending.

 

[alisepeep]

If you're a fair candidate that didn't match for any number of reasons and can improve your application, scrambling into some crap residency that barely meets accreditation standards and case minimums is probably not the best way to start a career. I'd take my chances next year first. You want solid training before you go out and take on the liability and responsibility of being an attending.

I dont agree with this one bit..the crappiest worst ranked program will give you the opporrunity to become a great doctor, at some places you just might have to put in more effort. There is no guarantee that you will match next year so if you are offered something, ANYTHING, this cycle you should take it!

 

[randomcollusion]

In this cycle, 43.6% of allopathic medical school graduates matched to a PGY-1. That is the lowest of all categories possible, including non-US IMGs.

 

[Chicago2012]

In this cycle, 43.6% of allopathic medical school graduates matched to a PGY-1. That is the lowest of all categories possible, including non-US IMGs.

That is awful

 

[IlDestriero]

I dont agree with this one bit..the crappiest worst ranked program will give you the opporrunity to become a great doctor, at some places you just might have to put in more effort. There is no guarantee that you will match next year so if you are offered something, ANYTHING, this cycle you should take it!

I wouldn't recommend that strategy for a surgical specialty or anesthesia. You are doing yourself a big disservice if you're not doing challenging cases regularly. Some programs barely meet their numbers or do so only by sending people away to other programs for specialty months. You don't get great being brow beaten by a bunch of hacks while you do endless lap choles and wound debridements from the local shady nursing home. I'm not sure I would take a preliminary year either. That's a dead end.
My comments, as noted above, wouldn't apply to FMGs, poor students, or other red flag candidates that may need to take whatever they can get and try to jump start their application and their career.

 

[lakersno834]

41.7% of all Non-USMGs did not match this year. Looking at the NRMP match data compared to 5.5% USMGs who did not match.

 

[IlDestriero]

In this cycle, 43.6% of allopathic medical school graduates matched to a PGY-1. That is the lowest of all categories possible, including non-US IMGs.

I'm not exactly sure what that statistic represents.
If the soap, isn't that because the vast majority of us allopathic students matched already and, excepting the marginal Derm and optho kind of guys reaching for the stars, only the red flag candidates remained?

 

[Monmonmons]

41.7% of all Non-USMGs did not match this year. Looking at the NRMP match data compared to 5.5% USMGs who did not match.

link?

 

[DrBowtie]

In this cycle, 43.6% of allopathic medical school graduates matched to a PGY-1. That is the lowest of all categories possible, including non-US IMGs.

What are you referring to? US seniors had an overall match of 93.9% based upon the data tables.

Edit: I see they are referring to those graduated already and the figure is correct. 13.3% submitted no rank list though.

 

[randomcollusion]

I wouldn't recommend that strategy for a surgical specialty or anesthesia. You are doing yourself a big disservice if you're not doing challenging cases regularly. Some programs barely meet their numbers or do so only by sending people away to other programs for specialty months. You don't get great being brow beaten by a bunch of hacks while you do endless lap choles and wound debridements from the local shady nursing home. I'm not sure I would take a preliminary year either. That's a dead end.
My comments, as noted above, wouldn't apply to FMGs, poor students, or other red flag candidates that may need to take whatever they can get and try to jump start their application and their career.

I think there are precious few that could benefit from your advice, since other than those people, the only ones left are people who seriously overreached in terms of where they interviewed.

I'm an AMG from one of the top 20 US News and World Report schools (like that matters, but not in the middle of nowhere), Step 1 239, Step 2 221 (terrible score), and I am a red flag student. Had to repeat preclinical year, only got passes on core clerkship medicine and surgery rotations, but got high passes on critical care advanced clerkship and acting internship in medicine. Never failed a rotation. First author in a published cohort study, 2nd author in 2 others. Got 7 interviews in neurology, curiously all at university institutions even though I specifically avoided the cream of the crop. No match, no soap, and it's looking like no scramble.

Now all I can think about is $400,000 in unforgivable loans. So I guess I'm a poor student now too.

I need a job.

 

[randomcollusion]

What are you referring to? US seniors had an overall match of 93.9% based upon the data tables.

Edit: I see they are referring to those graduated already and the figure is correct. 13.3% submitted no rank list though.

15-17% submit no rank list in the lower categories (excluding fifth pathway) likely because they had nothing to rank.

 

[SOAP_city USA]

That's the kinda stuff where I believe you need a "boost" by someone you know. There are red flags like repeating a course or remediation, failing a Step but then where is the redemption. If the program is pre-screening, you're already out of the interview pile, except at places that might not activate the red flag filters. So w/o some intervention, doesn't that just doom someone to low probability realms?? Won't making a "difference" in the Match start to rely on maybe having someone you know w/ some sway getting the PD to give you a really good chance?

 

[randomcollusion]

I'm not exactly sure what that statistic represents.
If the soap, isn't that because the vast majority of us allopathic students matched already and, excepting the marginal Derm and optho kind of guys reaching for the stars, and only the red flag candidates remained?

If you're saying that this statistic includes current PGY-1s who matched into advanced out of residency, then that partially explains the low number, but why on earth would that statistic be included?

 

[lakersno834]

link?

Here's the official release of Match Data by NRMP.
http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/ADT2015_final.pdf

 

[randomcollusion]

You're looking at the data wrong.


#1. This is the "lowest" of all possible categories, except it is in and of itself a unique category. This is the only category where they separate out previous graduates. For IMG, DO, etc it includes current students and previous graduates.

To come up with an equivalent statistic for US-MDs, you would need to add the 1520 previous US-MD grads to the 18025 current US-MD seniors, and then add the 662 grads who matched PGY-1 to the 16932 current students who matched. This would give you a 90% matched PGY-1 rate for all US-MD applicants (grads + seniors).

#2. The notes state:
"Applicants who ranked only PGY-2 and Physician (R) programs are counted as unmatched in this table because they did not match to a PGY-1 position."

This tremendously skews the pool since a number of these previous graduates of US-MD schools are already in PGY-1 positions (prelim years).

I agree, it completely covers up the actual statistics of AMG re-applicants and is a useless category.

Which is a shame for precisely the people that need to make that calculation. 90% combined match rate is also useless since the combined populations are so different.

 

[ProgCord]

Just a note from a program coordinator - one who is really involved in the process including interviewing candidates and voting in rank meeting - to those of you who are left unmatched this very competitive year.

Don't lose hope. This isn't the end of the road and I have personally witnessed some REALLY unlikely candidates ranked to match (and by that I mean in the top however many spots available) because they made great connections with the program and worked their butts off in connection to SUPER competitive programs.

I just want you to know, from this side of it (though I guess I can really only speak for myself) we WANT you to succeed. We are on your side. If we interview you, we probably already like you and would be happy to have you here - as long as you weren't rude, inappropriate, or gave off a serial killer vibe. Match results are always a little bittersweet, because we all have our favorites and sometimes we weren't the best fit for them, but I am always so excited for those people because they matched where they thought it was a better fit. Sucks for me, but I am happy for them!!

For the candidates who are ranked but go unmatched - we really feel for you. Nine times out of ten, we ranked you, and would have loved to have you - we just matched higher on our list and sometimes higher than expected. This does not mean you were at the bottom of our list, or even, in some cases, a quarter of the way down. Do not let this define you, do not feel ashamed or embarrassed, and do not feel like you have failed. So many amazing candidates just slip through the fingers of the Match because it is SO competitive.

I know you feel like the world is ending, but it isn't. Take heart, take advice (even if you don't like it), and take time for your family and friends who have missed you while you were in medical school and will miss you when you land that residency.

And just some advice: Please DO NOT show up unannounced and without an invitation. It is not professional, it is awkward, and it is going to cost you far more than it benefits you. And please, do not call, get voicemail, call back, rinse and repeat a billion times. Most of us have caller ID so we see how many times you have called, and it is really inappropriate if we are interviewing someone or are hosting a meeting. Please just leave a voicemail.....

Best of luck to you in snagging an off cycle position or matching next cycle!

 

[Mass Effect]

In no way am I being antagonistic here... but majority of AMG's simply don't want to pursue residency in fields like primary care, psych, path or pm&r etc. Which is balanced out by the foreign grads and do's who ARE willing to apply to and pursue careers in those perceived "less prestigious" (and less lucrative) fields

And sometimes, there are USMDs who DO want those fields, but don't match into them.

 

[PMRMD2B]

I think people should also see that US-IMGs decreased this year, but they had about the same percent who matched their first choice as AMG's. That is pretty significant, even if the overall number is smaller. The truth is that most US-IMGs who don't match went to fly-by-night schools who aren't accredited in all 50 states and other issues. The vast majority who go to Ross, AUC, and SGU have match success.

 

[lakersno834]

I think people should also see that US-IMGs decreased this year, but they had about the same percent who matched their first choice as AMG's. That is pretty significant, even if the overall number is smaller. The truth is that most US-IMGs who don't match went to fly-by-night schools who aren't accredited in all 50 states and other issues. The vast majority who go to Ross, AUC, and SGU have match success.

Although you are right in your statement. The notion of 'all other' IMGs are from fly by night schools are not good candidates is wrong. They ALL take the same USMLEs and have relatively the same clinical rotations. The only benefit these three schools have is that they have been around for a long time, have federal loans, which enables them to bring in more students, and have more revenue which enables them to 'out perform' others.

 

[docmama]

Versus not having a job? Really?

YES. Trust me on this one. I speak from experience.

 

[Lysinee]

When looking at the number of unfilled programs from the advanced tables data, is that the number before or after SOAP?

 

[PMRMD2B]

Although you are right in your statement. The notion of 'all other' IMGs are from fly by night schools are not good candidates is wrong. They ALL take the same USMLEs and have relatively the same clinical rotations. The only benefit these three schools have is that they have been around for a long time, have federal loans, which enables them to bring in more students, and have more revenue which enables them to 'out perform' others.

Not true, IMO. Many programs filter out IMGs by only allowing certain school names in. I went to one school and transferred to another, so I know for a fact my old school has never gotten interviews at places my new school does every year. Some programs told me directly they don't take students from any of the other schools. They know what they are getting out of the big 3, and the standardized tests alone don't give them enough confidence to know what their clinical experience is from other schools. Again, first hand I can tell you by rotating with MANY other Carib schools, their clinical experience was a joke and they know it. I've met students who never set foot in a hospital while in med school.

I would say there are 3-4 schools outside of Ross, AUC, and SGU that have good graduates, i.e. MUA, SABA, UMHS, AUA, St. Matthews. Outside of those programs, you will struggle to get a match without some sort of connection or audition rotation.

 

[PMRMD2B]

YES. Trust me on this one. I speak from experience.

I may have missed this, but what did you do in the last year to strengthen your application? I hate that you are in this situation.

 

[Mass Effect]

I think people should also see that US-IMGs decreased this year, but they had about the same percent who matched their first choice as AMG's. That is pretty significant, even if the overall number is smaller. The truth is that most US-IMGs who don't match went to fly-by-night schools who aren't accredited in all 50 states and other issues. The vast majority who go to Ross, AUC, and SGU have match success.

Not true, IMO. Many programs filter out IMGs by only allowing certain school names in. I went to one school and transferred to another, so I know for a fact my old school has never gotten interviews at places my new school does every year. Some programs told me directly they don't take students from any of the other schools. They know what they are getting out of the big 3, and the standardized tests alone don't give them enough confidence to know what their clinical experience is from other schools. Again, first hand I can tell you by rotating with MANY other Carib schools, their clinical experience was a joke and they know it. I've met students who never set foot in a hospital while in med school.

Maybe it's just me, but I always felt the SOAP thread is not the place to boast your success and criticize others.

 

[Hopeless119]

YES. Trust me on this one. I speak from experience.

I wanted an IM residency last year and only applied to all IM. Didn't match or SOAP. This year, I improved my application and got 5 IM/3 FM IV's. Didn't match but SOAP into FM. I was 50/50 on accepting the offer cause it's not what I really want but then again, it's a job. I hope I'll learn to like it and enjoy the residency.

 

[PMRMD2B]

Maybe it's just me, but I always felt the SOAP thread is not the place to boast your success and criticize others.

Maybe.. just maybe, the SOAP is over and I was replying to other's comments on the same topic of certain IMGs not matching, etc. (yet I don't see you quoting their posts). Second, did this post in any form boast my success or criticize anyone? I'll make this easy for you, the answer is NO. I guess some don't like to read facts if they don't like the way the information makes you feel.

 

[lakersno834]

Not true, IMO. Many programs filter out IMGs by only allowing certain school names in. I went to one school and transferred to another, so I know for a fact my old school has never gotten interviews at places my new school does every year. Some programs told me directly they don't take students from any of the other schools. They know what they are getting out of the big 3, and the standardized tests alone don't give them enough confidence to know what their clinical experience is from other schools. Again, first hand I can tell you by rotating with MANY other Carib schools, their clinical experience was a joke and they know it. I've met students who never set foot in a hospital while in med school.

I would say there are 3-4 schools outside of Ross, AUC, and SGU that have good graduates, i.e. MUA, SABA, UMHS, AUA, St. Matthews. Outside of those programs, you will struggle to get a match without some sort of connection or audition rotation.

Again.. You just proved my point. The fact that these schools have a reputation is because they have been around longer and have enjoyed the benefits of Federal loans or big investors. Hence their graduates have better match success rates.