Someone please talk me out/ into applying to Caribbean schools and stick with DO Schools

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DrModern

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First of all, remember that the initial after your name doesn't mean anything if the quality of your health care delivery is not up to the par.

I got in an in depth discussion regarding the viability of Caribbean schools in this thread, for those of you who are interested in a change in perspective/ a little insight:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...f-questions-are-coming.1081063/#post-15388449

Note that it has high attrition rate than USMD/ DO, roughly 10-20% (as expected because they admit people who are less than qualified, some of whom actually use their financial aid to gamble in casino, so number doesn't tell you the whole story).

Despite how rumor has it, the residency placement rate is more around 90%.
So around 70-80% of the students who enroll in the first year get into residency.

This is according to Ross Medical School (one of the big four):
http://www.rossu.edu/medical-school/About-Ross-University-School-of-Medicine.cfm
Performance on USMLE Step 1
Performance on Step 1 of the United States Medical Licensing Examination (USMLE) is one of the most important determinants in a medical student's ability to obtain the residency of his or her choosing. In 2013, RUSM achieved a first-time pass rate of 97 percent on USMLE, which is on par with the rate achieved by US and Canadian schools, and above the rate achieved by osteopathic schools (94 percent) and international schools (79 percent).

Track Record of Residency Success
Over the last five years, RUSM has placed more graduates into U.S. residency programs than any other school in the world. Many of our graduates obtain residencies at the earliest available start dates and are well received by residency directors in programs approved by the Accreditation Council for Graduate Medical Education (ACGME)-approved hospitals throughout the United States.

If you look at the match rate of US IMG (Caribbean school), it doesn't look half bad. At least not as bad as how some people put it.

However, please note that Caribbean schools are extremely expansive and if you are failed out, you're in debt for hundreds of thousands of dollars.
Conclusion: Exhaust all options in USMD, DO, POD, before venturing into Caribbean.

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Hello guys,
I have talked to a couple people on SDN as well as doing some google/ SDN browsing, and now it comes down to this:
I will be applying to DO schools as well as caribbean schools (the big four) this cycle.
Assuming that I get accepted into both Caribbean schools and DO Schools, which one should I attend?

Here are some of the pros I have found for DO Schools:
-Due to the recent MD and DO residency merger, DO schools will soon receive the same recognition.
-Very high first choice match rate ~76% (correct me if I'm wrong)

Con of DO schools:
-Currently viewed as inferior to MD

Pro of Caribbean:
-Easyyy to get into
-Earn MD degree
-quote @AlbinoHawk DO http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...rib-md-friend-bashes-do-school.1050379/page-4:
Once you pass the board everything is pretty much equal

Con:
-Overall match rate of ~70%
--> quote @Ibn Alnafis MD: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...bashes-do-school.1050379/page-3#post-14869633
29% of our graduating classes obtain residencies not through the National Resident Match Program
--> quote @hallowmann http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...rib-md-friend-bashes-do-school.1050379/page-4:
match and post-graduate opportunities are better for DOs than for Carib MDs
-30-50% attrition rate
-More expansive

---
Let me know if there are more pros and cons below, I will actively update this :D
The match rate at do schools also has to include aoa residencies so it is actually much higher then 76 percent . You can spend 200 thousand in the carribean and not get a degree. But if you got 200 grand burning a whole in your pocket and 4 years to waste go ahead and go carribean.
 
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What are your stats?

If you have a 3.3/3.4 and 26+, you should have no problem getting into a DO if you apply broadly and have good ECs.
 
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Life is not always sun and fun in the Caribbean. Bad roads, spotty electricity, inferior plumbing, crime, high prices for food are also things you need to consider.
 
IIRC, the general consensus is that US MD>US DO>>>>>>>"Top 4" Caribbean MD>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Other Caribbean MD.
 
IIRC, the general consensus is that US MD>US DO>>>>>>>"Top 4" Caribbean MD>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Other Caribbean MD.
Even if some people look at Caribbean schools through a negative lense, if caribbean graduates are in the same residency programs and acquire similar respectable jobs, I think all is forgiven.
In my opinion general consensus doesn't hold as much of a weight as first match rate, residency programs, etc
 
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Life is not always sun and fun in the Caribbean. Bad roads, spotty electricity, inferior plumbing, crime, high prices for food are also things you need to consider.
I will put that onto the above list
 
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I have a 3.1 gpa and 29 MCAT.
Stellar PS, stellar EC, 5 LOR (2 MD, 2 Strong Science, 1 non-science)
I am applying to these 12 DO Schools:

Lincoln Memorial University - DeBusk College of Osteopathic Medicine, TN(LMUDCOM)
William Carey University College of Osteopathic Medicine, MS(WCUCOM)
Rocky Vista University College of Osteopathic Medicine, College of Osteopathic Medicine, CO
Pacific Northwest University of Health Sciences, College of Osteopathic Medicine, WA(PNUHSCOM)
Western University of Health Sciences/College of Osteopathic Medicine of the Pacific - Lebanon, OR(WUHSCOM)
West Virginia School of Osteopathic Medicine, Admissions Office, WV(WVSOM)
Alabama College of Osteopathic Medicine, AL (ACOM)
Campbell University School of Osteopathic Medicine, NC (CUSOM)
Edward Via College of Osteopathic Medicine - Auburn, AL (EVCOM)
Georgia Campus - Philadelphia College of Osteopathic Medicine, GA (GCPCOM)
Liberty University College of Osteopathic Medicine, VA (LUCOM)
Marian University College of Osteopathic Medicine, IN(MUCOM)

Considering adding LECOM to the list once I get to shadow a DO in 2 weeks
You've already posted and received ample feedback in another thread. No need to start spamming this forum, especially with this beaten to death topic.
 
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Where did you get this info?
Do you mind referring me to the source?

Combine your "30-50% attrition rate" with "70% match rate" and you get "21-35% of those who enroll actually end up matching into a residency." What do you think happens with the other 65-79%? Their debt doesn't get forgiven.
 
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Do you care about the initials after your name or the training, opportunities, and educational environment you'll have? I've known people who went both routes, and, though it's mostly about your drive and ability to make what you can of it, one route gives you better chances and opportunities for quality residency spots... and (hint)... it isn't Caribbean. :thinking: ;)

Explore your opportunities and go where you think you can excel and be the best you can be.
 
If you have at least around a 3.4 GPA and a 27 on the MCAT, you are good for DO. My philosophy: I want to become a physician to serve humanity. I felt like a DO school in the United States would provide me the best possible education with my stats of a 3.4 GPA and a 28 MCAT rather than going to a Caribbean MD program. PM me if you have any further questions!
 
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I have a 3.1 gpa and 29 MCAT.
Stellar PS, stellar EC, 5 LOR (2 MD, 2 Strong Science, 1 non-science)
I am applying to these 12 DO Schools:

Lincoln Memorial University - DeBusk College of Osteopathic Medicine, TN(LMUDCOM)
William Carey University College of Osteopathic Medicine, MS(WCUCOM)
Rocky Vista University College of Osteopathic Medicine, College of Osteopathic Medicine, CO
Pacific Northwest University of Health Sciences, College of Osteopathic Medicine, WA(PNUHSCOM)
Western University of Health Sciences/College of Osteopathic Medicine of the Pacific - Lebanon, OR(WUHSCOM)
West Virginia School of Osteopathic Medicine, Admissions Office, WV(WVSOM)
Alabama College of Osteopathic Medicine, AL (ACOM)
Campbell University School of Osteopathic Medicine, NC (CUSOM)
Edward Via College of Osteopathic Medicine - Auburn, AL (EVCOM)
Georgia Campus - Philadelphia College of Osteopathic Medicine, GA (GCPCOM)
Liberty University College of Osteopathic Medicine, VA (LUCOM)
Marian University College of Osteopathic Medicine, IN(MUCOM)

Considering adding LECOM to the list once I get to shadow a DO in 2 weeks

You should add LECOM ASAP. You can interview without a DO letter and when you interview they will get you a DO.
 
What are your stats?

If you have a 3.3/3.4 and 26+, you should have no problem getting into a DO if you apply broadly and have good ECs.
I would say this threshold is more around 3.2/3.2/24
 
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Please keep in mind that just because a match statistic is 70% does not mean it includes everyone who started from day one. Include those and your match rate dips far far below anything reasonable.

DO's match 99% btw.

So we're talking, 99% of matching v.s 70% on your best day.
 
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OP is 3.1/29, which is possible but unlikely. If he takes an extra year and does a post-bacc, replacing a few of the lower grades, he'll pretty much be a shoe in. He has good ECs which increases his chances for this year.
 
I would say this threshold is more around 3.2/3.2/24

3.2/24 with a very very broad app? I'd probably say you've got a shot. Percent chance? No one can say.


Truth of the matter is that the average rejected applicant has stats around there. So I'm going to say that with a 3.2/24 it's a 50/50 shot.
 
OP is 3.1/29, which is possible but unlikely. If he takes an extra year and does a post-bacc, replacing a few of the lower grades, he'll pretty much be a shoe in. He has good ECs which increases his chances for this year.


Are you having a shot at the fact that those numbers are complimentary? Or the fact that you don't imagine someone with a low gpa getting a decent mcat score? lol

To be completely honest, he could take a year off and attend a better DO school or he could attend a relatively low tier DO school this time. Chances are that his match statistics won't be all that different. The issue here is whether or not he NEEDs to go to a school in a particular area.
 
The thing is I don't really care about general consensus. People's opinions don't factor into my decision making.
Because at the end of the day, if you have an MD at the end of your name. No one really questions.
Then wtf was the point of making this thread? Go carrib, have a nice life and enjoy all the other "perks" of getting that carrib MD that have already been touched on (attrition rate, poor chances in the match, etc). And even the latter half of this post isn't entirely true btw. Patients and nurses may not, but your colleagues and (more importantly) PDs come match time sure will.
 
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Are you having a shot at the fact that those numbers are complimentary? Or the fact that you don't imagine someone with a low gpa getting a decent mcat score? lol

Not sure what you're asking. I'm not "having a shot" at anything. Just bringing OP's actual numbers into the conversation. As for low GPA/decent MCAT.... rofl. I think I'm probably the undisputed king of that.
 
Then wtf was the point of making this thread? Go carrib, have a nice life and enjoy all the other "perks" of getting that carrib MD that have already been touched on (attrition rate, poor chances in the match, etc). And even the latter half of this post isn't entirely true btw. Patients and nurses may not, but your colleagues and (more importantly) PDs come match time sure will.
I apologize that I phrased my intention wrong.
What I meant to say is opinions are not concrete like first match rate, attrition rate, where majority of graduates practice (these factors are not subjected to opinions).
Even if some people look at caribbean schools through a negative lense, if caribbean graduates are in the same residency programs as DO and MD, then I don't really care about what other people think.
Again, I apologize for my wording.
 
You've already posted and received ample feedback in another thread. No need to start spamming this forum, especially with this beaten to death topic.
Sorry, I was simply replying to his question
 
3.2/24 with a very very broad app? I'd probably say you've got a shot. Percent chance? No one can say.


Truth of the matter is that the average rejected applicant has stats around there. So I'm going to say that with a 3.2/24 it's a 50/50 shot.

I agree, but there are considerable obstacles as well. You can't be picky, you have to have something that makes u special and unique with a 3.2 and 24 mcat.

I would even argue that the mcat is too low for that. A 26, 3.3 seems to be the 50 shot mark, and lots of people who had lower scores made up for it with masters degrees or other things etc
 
Not sure what you're asking. I'm not "having a shot" at anything. Just bringing OP's actual numbers into the conversation. As for low GPA/decent MCAT.... rofl. I think I'm probably the undisputed king of that.


Then what's with the "It's possible, but unlikely"?
 
Then what's with the "It's possible, but unlikely"?

OP's chances at getting into DO with those stats. FWIW, my AACOMAS stats at application time were 2.95/3.05/35. I only applied to I think 5 or 6 DO programs, and none of them interviewed me.
 
I agree, but there are considerable obstacles as well. You can't be picky, you have to have something that makes u special and unique with a 3.2 and 24 mcat.

I would even argue that the mcat is too low for that. A 26, 3.3 seems to be the 50 shot mark, and lots of people who had lower scores made up for it with masters degrees or other things etc


Again, who even knows. AACOM isn't breaking it down for us like AAMC does.
 
Not sure what you're asking. I'm not "having a shot" at anything. Just bringing OP's actual numbers into the conversation. As for low GPA/decent MCAT.... rofl. I think I'm probably the undisputed king of that.

I saw 3 people with ~3.1 GPA but ~37 MCAT in the non-trad section last year.
 
OP's chances at getting into DO with those stats.


Ah, it was just the juxapositioning then.

Well, 3.1/29 isn't the worst thing you can have to say the least. I think that there are plenty of mcat heavy schools that'll be more than happy to overlook a low gpa.
 
I apologize that I phrased my intention wrong.
What I meant to say is opinions are not concrete like first match rate, attrition rate, where majority of graduates practice (these factors are not subjected to opinions).
Even if some people look at caribbean schools through a negative lense, if caribbean graduates are in the same residency programs as DO and MD, then I don't really care about what other people think.
Again, I apologize for my wording.
I appreciate the sincerity, but doesn't change the fact that you are requesting for people to talk you out of a poor decision that you seem hell bent on sticking with. If you want to go carib, great. I would rather see someone appreciative of the chance to be a DO take that seat.
 
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That's pretty close to mine. Do you know how they fared?

I think 2 of them were engineers who graduated >10 years ago and just recently took the MCAT. It explains the low GPA and high MCAT.

They wanted to pursue MD or another professional job and DO wasn't a consideration. I didn't follow up so I don't know.

I believe the 3rd one got into CCOM.
 
I think 2 of them were engineers who graduated >10 years ago and just recently took the MCAT. It explains the low GPA and high MCAT.

They wanted to pursue MD or another professional job and DO wasn't a consideration. I didn't follow up so I don't know.

I believe the 3rd one got into CCOM.
Very interesting, thanks.
 
Op you should go to the carribean. If having an MD matters to you that much go ahead and gamble the 200k to get one.

You have about a fifty percent chance to match out of carib while 99% of dos match. If you wanna put your 200-300 grand on the fifty instead of the 99 go ahead. It's yours money. The only thing carib schools offer over do schools is those two letters.

Me personally I wouldn't gamble 200- 300 k over two letters.
 
The only thing carib schools offer over do schools is those two letters.

This.

I can't understand an inferiority complex so fine-tuned that you will choose an inferior school/path with a much higher chance of failure over the 'stigma' of having the wrong letters after your name.
 
I appreciate the sincerity, but doesn't change the fact that you are requesting for people to talk you out of a poor decision that you seem hell bent on sticking with. If you want to go carib, great. I would rather see someone appreciative of the chance to be a DO take that seat.
Again, I apologize for my horrendous phrasing of my intention. People's opinion on the Caribbean vs. DO matter has a tremendous weight in my decision.
On the other hand, how the public view Caribbean graduates doesn't carry as much weight in my decision. Because I know that these graduates hold the same prestigious position in our society.
I respectfully disagree with people who view otherwise.
I hope I do not come off as turning my back to criticism towards Caribbean schools. Rather, I invite those of you have info on this subject matter to bring it up without reserve.
Apologies again.
 
This.

I can't understand an inferiority complex so fine-tuned that you will choose an inferior school/path with a much higher chance of failure over the 'stigma' of having the wrong letters after your name.

This guy must have a small d*** and is trying to compensate ;)

I honestly don't give a shiz if he wants to waste all of his money. Sometimes in life you gotta get burned.
 
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On the other hand, how the public view Caribbean graduates doesn't carry as much weight in my decision.

Patient Joe Schmoe might not know or care about you going to a Caribbean med school, but residency program directors sure will. And it's no secret that US MD/DO graduates are going to have a huge advantage over IMGs when it comes to getting the match.
 
Patient Joe Schmoe might not know or care about you going to a Caribbean med school, but residency program directors sure will. And it's no secret that US MD/DO graduates are going to have a huge advantage over IMGs when it comes to getting the match.
I wholeheartedly agree with you. If the residency program directors look at Caribbean graduates in a negative light, this matters carries a burden in itself.
What I referred to was the public's perceptions, which has no sway over pivotal decision making like residency placement.
 
OMG


Everyone here is trying to help you


Big 4 Carrib is an absolute last resort


Like, you have tried DO 3 times and can't get in
I sincerely appreciate everyone's help. I am just trying to get some concrete fact concerning Caribbean graduates vs. DO graduates.
Simply saying one is inferior to the other is not really helping my investigation.

I apologize in advance to everyone who think this post is a drag.
I tend to be overzealous in collecting information. I like to keep my options open. And finding out more about the pros and cons of Caribbean schools just happen to be one of them.
 
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