Someone was interested in a Health Psychology Program...

[OneNeuroDoctor]

Correct. And the role of the psychologist is changing from one of service delivery agent to one of a supervisor and disseminator of clinical psychological science. This is in addition to being a practitioner. Thus, the logical way forward is to stop training people to only be one of those, right?

If one chooses to only do one of those after graduate school, that's fine. But we have responsibility to train a new generation of psychologists in the changing healthcare market and the changing role in which we play in it.

I think your confinement in CMHC that has no interest in research or training (by your own admission) likely blinds you to some of these issues.

Well... I am not confined to a CMHC!!
LOL...I work in a private psychiatric center that has inpatient/outpatient service and I have multiple responsibility including neuropsych evaluations. My office is with the other Doctors MD/DO and I receive all the Dr. perks!!! I have training in the science of psychology. Psychology training is not a Black/white process. How naive is it to assume that a PsyD licensed psychologist does not have training in the science of psychology.

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Members don't see this ad.

 

[erg923]

Well... I am not confined to a CMHC!!
LOL...I work in a private psychiatric center that has inpatient/outpatient service and I have multiple responsibility including neuropsych evaluations. My office is with the other Doctors MD/DO and I receive all the Dr. perks!!! I have training in the science of psychology. Psychology training is not a Black/white process. How naive is it to assume that a PsyD licensed psychologist does not have training in the science of psychology.

Well, It's not naive at all if you look at typical curriculum of professional school programs. Much less the dissertations. It's the obvious impression one gets when looking at the indicators. It would be "naive" to think most professional school grads do, actually, based on the training.

I do apologize for mistaking your work setting though. I just remember you talking about working in a HRSA site for post doc that didn't require much supervision.

Did your post doc adhere to/meet Houston conference guidelines? I wasn't aware it was neuropsych post doc either?

 

[OneNeuroDoctor]

I have applied for HRSC and completed my year of postdoctoral supervision and beginning my second year of clinical neuropsychology supervision. My predoc was at an APA accredited CMHC and my program is a NR program. Therefore, both my program and internship meet the guidelines of APA for state licensure and my postdoctoral clinical neuropsychology training will meet my State guideline for clinical neuropsychology. Since I am also licensed as a school psychologist I have prior intensive psychometric courses and my graduate program allowed me the flexibility to take an additional seven neuropsychology courses through interdisciplinary studies in a School Psychology PhD program that is APA accredited through a collaborative University Consortium. I am doing part-time independent practice and consulting with some school districts.

I am applying to a postdoctoral program where I live to acquire additional psychometric training. I suppose you believe school psychology training is inferior to clinical psychology training but many of the test developers have Ed Psych/ School Psych training if you have had more than the basic psychometric courses as is common for PhD Clinical Psych programs.

Why don't you be honest about your training as it seems that you project a training from the highest ranked University but you tend to attack others without ever stating your training.

 

[erg923]

Sounds quite "round about" if you ask me, but I'm not an expert on npsych training.

I just know most places require a formal two year fellowship in neuropsychology to hire a person as a "neuropsychologist." What your describing may be ethically adequate for practice, but doesn't sound very portable/competitive within the larger market.

 

[OneNeuroDoctor]

How would it be "round about?" You have to complete a number of neuropsychology courses during doctoral studies or postdoctoral and then do two-years postdoctoral. This is how you become a licensed clinical neuropsychologist.

I believe you did your postdoctoral teaching in a PsyD program or did you? That could be a non traditional route of receiving postdoctoral training.

 

[erg923]

Because you apparently took "7 neuropsychology courses" in school psych program/ department and did not attend a traditionally except, or formal, training pos doc in neuropsychology. At least from what I can tell. Yet you states part of your current job was doing npsych assessments. So, naturally, I am was a bit confused. I'm just saying it seems like it would be viewed differently I'm the job market compares to what I'm used to seeing.

I'm not sure what you mean. It's wasn't a post doc. It was a formal faculty appt. I wasn't seeking postdoctoral training in any specialty area of clinical practice. I did adjunct instructing in psyd program that year as well, yes.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

RE: neuropsychology specifically, there are certain content areas that one must demonstrate having received training to be eligible for boarding (only maybe one or two states actually protect the term "neuropsychologist" and license folks separately, Louisiana being one of them that I remember off-hand). I can say from personal experience that I learned as much, if not more, on postdoc as I did in my neuropsych-heavy grad program and internship. A big part of the reason for that learning was because I had built up a foundation of knowledge via said grad school and internship, so that by the time I hit postdoc, the advanced concepts really started to all sink in.

Beyond all that, please remember that testing and psychometric theory, while important to what we do, is only one part of the overall picture. Neuropsychology is a body of knowledge, not the ability to administer and score tests. Much of that knowledge involves understanding complex brain-behavior relationships, which we happen to then examine via psychometric testing.

Personally, my take is this--if you (general "you" here) aren't at least board-eligible, you aren't a neuropsychologist, and you shouldn't be doing the work.

I'm hoping there's at least an adequately-trained neuropsychologist available to supervise the work you're conducting at your current setting?

 

[OneNeuroDoctor]

Then did you do your post doc in the VA? Normally you would not be allowed to count a teaching position as a postdoctoral experience. I went right into postdoctoral one week after completing predoctoral. Seems that your training was more "Round About" then many. I could have done a APA accredited neuropsych and I received some offers in Jacksonville and Miami, Florida that paid only in the $30 thousand range. I decided to stay in the SW/MW at a salary in the $60 thousand range. This is why formal post docs are not preferred and why they always have openings.

 

[OneNeuroDoctor]

RE: neuropsychology specifically, there are certain content areas that one must demonstrate having received training to be eligible for boarding (only maybe one or two states actually protect the term "neuropsychologist" and license folks separately, Louisiana being one of them that I remember off-hand). I can say from personal experience that I learned as much, if not more, on postdoc as I did in my neuropsych-heavy grad program and internship. A big part of the reason for that learning was because I had built up a foundation of knowledge via said grad school and internship, so that by the time I hit postdoc, the advanced concepts really started to all sink in.

Beyond all that, please remember that testing and psychometric theory, while important to what we do, is only one part of the overall picture. Neuropsychology is a body of knowledge, not the ability to administer and score tests. Much of that knowledge involves understanding complex brain-behavior relationships, which we happen to then examine via psychometric testing.

Personally, my take is this--if you (general "you" here) aren't at least board-eligible, you aren't a neuropsychologist, and you shouldn't be doing the work.

I'm hoping there's at least an adequately-trained neuropsychologist available to supervise the work you're conducting at your current setting?

During two-year postdoctoral neuropsychology training, face to face supervision and approval from the psychology licensing board are required. Of course I have to finish the next year of training before being licensed as a neuropsychologist and then I will have to pass Orals in neuropsychology in my State.

supervision.[/QUOTE]

 

[AcronymAllergy]

During two-year postdoctoral neuropsychology training, face to face supervision and and approval from the psychology licensing board are required. Of course I have to finish the next year of training before being licensed as a neuropsychologist and then I will have to pass Orals in
neuropsychology in my State.

Are you going to NAN in PR? I was going to attend but to expensive.



supervision.

You must live in one of the small number of states that requires separate credentialing for neuropsychologists, then. I wish more states were like that.

Still up in the air about NAN. I want to go, but will need to see if I can get my clinics blocked off and a decently-priced flight. INS is more of a sure thing, though.

 

[OneNeuroDoctor]

Someone informed me that a small airline has a number of flights to PR out of Orlando and they are taking SWA to Orlando and then one of the small commuter airline to PR. I do not have any vacation time accrued and schedule is booked. The small airline has 25-50 seat jets that flies business commuters to and from PR with some six flights to and from PR daily. Her husband is PR and this is how they fly to and from PR rather than taking big jets.

 

[erg923]

Then did you do your post doc in the VA? Normally you would not be allowed to count a teaching position as a postdoctoral experience. I went right into postdoctoral one week after completing predoctoral. Seems that your training was more "Round About" then many. I could have done a APA accredited neuropsych and I received some offers in Jacksonville and Miami, Florida that paid only in the $30 thousand range. I decided to stay in the SW/MW at a salary in the $60 thousand range. This is why formal post docs are not preferred and why they always have openings.

No. I got licensed when I was faculty. Nothing round about about that. Clinical post docs are in no required in academia. Nor are they required for ANY VA position other than npsych, so you are still not making any sense on this point. Perhaps you can clarify?

 

[OneNeuroDoctor]

No. I got licensed when I was faculty. Nothing round about about that. Clinical post docs are in no required in academia. Nor are they required for ANY VA position other than npsych, so you are still not making any sense on this point. Perhaps you can clarify?

Well that is odd, the VA does not require a postdoctoral! The states where I live do require postdoctoral training and academic work does not count. You must be from Alabama, Washington, or Arizona that don't require postdoctoral. A friend of mine did this but when she moved to a different state, the licensing board required her to do a year postdoctoral even though she was licensed in Arizona they did not count it as equivalent. Strange that the VA does not require postdoctoral but they provide postdoctoral training.

 

[erg923]

Kentucky. And am licensed in Indiana as well.

Why do you find it strange that an organization provides post doctoral training but doesn't require it for most positions (outside neuropsych)? Whats one got to with the other?

 

[OneNeuroDoctor]

I would think that the VA would require their psychologist to complete a postdoctoral year of training for their psychologist to supervise postdoctoral interns. In Louisiana two-years of postdoctoral is required. Better stay with the VA or you may have trouble with licensure in States like Oklahoma and Kansas. Kentucky and Indiana must have lax standards for psychologist licensing.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Keep in mind that "postdoc" is a very ambiguous term. States that require it often just state that you must complete X number of hours and obtain X amount of supervision. They typically don't stipulate the settings in which the clinical contact must occur, how many cases/patients you need to see, etc. Thus, it's very possible to complete the postdoctoral hours required for state licensing in an academic setting if you're working in the university clinic, in a fellow faculty member's private practice, etc.

Also, let's not confuse postdoctoral experience with formal postdoctoral training. State licensing boards typically only require the former for psychologists; it's usually boarding standards and/or jobs that require the latter. And no, the VA does not have a national standard requiring that psychologists have completed formal postdoctoral training, even for neuropsychology; they do eventually require that you're licensed somewhere, though. As for neuropsych, it's usually the people/particular VA posting the positions that state they require or prefer a formal two-year postdoc.

 

[erg923]

Abolishment of the post doc clinical hours requirement is becoming more common. 14 states now, I think.

I do think it's lax at all. I think it's pragmatic. Outside training for specialty practice areas (neuro, forensics), I'm not sure what purpose an across the board post doctoral hours requirement is/was serving other than suppressing one billing power.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Abolishment of the post doc clinical hours requirement is becoming more common. 14 states now, I think.

I do think it's lax at all. I think it's pragmatic. Outside training for specialty practice areas (neuro, forensics), I'm not sure what purpose an across the board post doctoral hours requirement is/was serving other than suppressing one billing power.

I agree--I just don't really see the point of it. If they're worried folks aren't capable of practicing independently as generalist psychologists, then change things so that they are competent by the time they earn their degree.

 

[OneNeuroDoctor]

The State where I reside in has reciprocity with a number of other states:

Arkansas
Manitoba
Missouri
Nebraska
Oklahoma
Ontario
Texas

This reciprocity would stop if they did not require the one year postdoctoral.

 

[erg923]

I only continued with the issue because if your training in neuropsychology, whether in grad school or post-doctorally, was primarily about teaching you how to administer, score and interpret tests (as you alluded to), then you need a new training program.

Along with AAs comments, the practice of neuropsychology is not just about giving and intepreting tests. Thus, I would hope one's training in clinical neuropsychology, especially at the post-doc level, is robust on many levels...and not just supervision of "testing cases."

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

My biggest concern is that clinicians don't know what they don't know when it comes to neuropsych assessment. Getting supervised on some cases and taking a handful of classes does not a neuropsychologist make.

FWIW, I learned more during my two yrs of fellowship than all other yrs combined. I also did more didactic training (adult, peds, behavioral neurology, etc), which is very hard to replicate anywhere outside of a formal fellowship.

 

[OneNeuroDoctor]

I agree, two-year postdoc training is critical for neuropsychology licensure.
Didactics and working with a team including neurologist is critical for acquiring neuropsychology skills.

In states that do not require the two-years of postdoc training, psychologist may not have the required neuropsychology skills competence and this adds further concerns when the VA does not require such training.

 

[erg923]

I agree, two-year postdoc training is critical for neuropsychology licensure.
Didactics and working with a team including neurologist is critical for acquiring neuropsychology skills.

In states that do not require the two-years of postdoc training, psychologist may not have the required neuropsychology skills competence and this adds further concerns when the VA does not require such training.

Just to be clear, only 2 states have any specification about 2 years post-doc to practice neuropsychology. In the other 48, its simply a matter of adhereing to ethics and not "practicing outside the cope of ones training."

Also, VA HR does not have this policy, but the service line chiefs do, of course. People who did not have two years of formal training in neuropsychology were not picked from HR cert list for interview. Candidates who completed the npsych post-doc in a PP, even if meeting HC standards, were looked upon much less favorably. You really can't practice neuropsych in the VA these days without actually be a neuropychologist, trust me.

 

[WisNeuro]

So, the VA does actually kind of have a requirement. They require you to be board eligible for most new positions in neuropsychology. If you did an approved 2-year fellowship, you are board eligible. If you did not, you can still be board eligible, but there are a lot of hoops to jump through and you have to have all of the required coursework/supervision/didactic experiences. Some states actually will not let you bill for npsych codes without board certification. The roundabout way of getting into neuropsych is on the way out.

 

[OneNeuroDoctor]

Here is the qualifications based on the VA website:

• Candidates must have completed a two year post-doctoral training experience in Clinical Neuropsychology that conforms to the Houston Conference guidelines (or are otherwise board eligible). Otherwise, equal consideration is given to those whose training prior to 2005 includes a neuropsychological fellowship/internship which makes them board eligible for neuropscyhology).
  • 
    Experience refers to paid and unpaid experience, including volunteer work done through National Service programs (e.g., Peace Corps, AmeriCorps) and other organizations (e.g., professional; philanthropic; religions; spiritual; community; student; social). Volunteer work helps build critical competencies, knowledge, and skills and can provide valuable training and experience that translates directly to paid employment. You will receive credit for all qualifying experience, including volunteer experience.

 

[WisNeuro]

It really depends on the job posting, they can vary. Any halfway competitive job posting will require the 2-year postdoc now. If it's a rural, less desired position, they may back off on the postdoc.

 

[researchgirl]

I feel bad for the Ph.D. program in Health Psychology and Clinical Science at the City University of New York (CUNY), who had their thread hijacked.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

It really depends on the job posting, they can vary. Any halfway competitive job posting will require the 2-year postdoc now. If it's a rural, less desired position, they may back off on the postdoc.

Agreed. I rarely see any posting that don't require a formal fellowship, though the few I have seen have been all at much less desirable places or a random private practice (though even they almost always req. it). There really needs to be only one door in, and neuropsych is one of the few specialities where they are trying to make that happen. With the latest VA snafu, I'me expecting/hoping the fallout will help push standards across the board.

 

[OneNeuroDoctor]

The VA has adds for neuropsychology technician positions that pay up to the $70,000 range. Many neuropsychologist in private practice tend to have 2-3 neuropsychology technicians who do most of the actual testing while the neuropsychologist does mental status and writes the report. I guess the VA is following this model. Some of the VA neuropsychologist also have assignments at medical schools and private practices and they may rely on neuropsychology technicians. I am unsure how they find the time to do their job at the VA when they are teaching at medical schools and doing adjunct at PsyD programs. I wonder if this is what happened in the recent ruling of a VA neuropsychologist in that the neuropsychology technician completed much of the actual testing and did not complete executive function and memory tests required for a neuropsychology evaluation.

 

[erg923]

Some of the neuropsychologist positions come with a tech, others do not. Thats a funding issue. The VA, as a whole, has no "model" of neuropsychology practice.

And, if you are talking about the logistics of having dual appointments at a VA and the affiliated university, I think you are misunderstanding hiw it works. For example, I have also have an appt my city's medical school. I teach residents, but I teach them here (at the VA) and I do it a few times a quarter. When I do, they block my clinic time. The affiliated position is often part of having (and sharing, in some cases) clinical training programs. Again, part of being psychologist is doing more than clinical service delivery. Psychologists can bring alot more to the table. Thus, many of us have multiple duties as part of our job descriptions.

 

[WisNeuro]

The VA has adds for neuropsychology technician positions that pay up to the $70,000 range. Many neuropsychologist in private practice tend to have 2-3 neuropsychology technicians who do most of the actual testing while the neuropsychologist does mental status and writes the report. I guess the VA is following this model. Some of the VA neuropsychologist also have assignments at medical schools and private practices and they may rely on neuropsychology technicians. I am unsure how they find the time to do their job at the VA when they are teaching at medical schools and doing adjunct at PsyD programs. I wonder if this is what happened in the recent ruling of a VA neuropsychologist in that the neuropsychology technician completed much of the actual testing and did not complete executive function and memory tests required for a neuropsychology evaluation.

I will tell you that the 70k range for techs is easily the minority. If you have a masters and can get that position, hold onto it, there are few out there. Are you talking about the Montana ruling? That wasn't a tech issue.

 

[erg923]

I will tell you that the 70k range for techs is easily the minority. If you have a masters and can get that position, hold onto it, there are few out there. Are you talking about the Montana ruling? That wasn't a tech issue.

You can't use techs for C&Ps neuropsych evals, right?

 

[WisNeuro]

I don't do C&P, but yeah, my understanding is that an actual physician or psychologist has to do the eval itself.

 

[erg923]

I wonder if this is what happened in the recent ruling of a VA neuropsychologist in that the neuropsychology technician completed much of the actual testing and did not complete executive function and memory tests required for a neuropsychology evaluation.

And, correct me if I am wrong, but a neuropsychological evaluation is whatever it needs to be. There is no practice guideline that says one has to include psychometric assessment of certain fucntions (e.g., executive function) to qualify as a "neuropsych evaluation." Correct me if I am wrong? Didn't Edith K say something about a string and a pencil on a desert island?

 

[WisNeuro]

Yeah, flexible battery approach is the prevailing norm. We generally will include most domains on testing, but really, you need to answer the referral question in many contexts and don't necessarily need to test every domain. If the test adds nothing to your conceptualization, you are just wasting both yours and the patient's time and money.

 

[erg923]

Yeah, flexible battery approach is the prevailing norm. We generally will include most domains on testing, but really, you need to answer the referral question in many contexts and don't necessarily need to test every domain. If the test adds nothing to your conceptualization, you are just wasting both yours and the patient's time and money.

So, what's oneneurodoc talking about?

 

[WisNeuro]

Well, the only recent VA ruling that I am aware of is the Montana ruling. And that was about a non-neuropsych doing the assessment and using the wrong instrument for the job. Among other things, but that's neither here nor there.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Some of the neuropsychologist positions come with a tech, others do not. Thats a funding issue. The VA, as a whole, has no "model" of neuropsychology practice.

And, if you are talking about the logistics of having dual appointments at a VA and the affiliated university, I think you are misunderstanding hiw it works. For example, I have also have an appt my city's medical school. I teach residents, but I teach them here (at the VA) and I do it a few times a quarter. When I do, they block my clinic time. The affiliated position is often part of having (and sharing, in some cases) clinical training programs. Again, part of being psychologist is doing more than clinical service delivery. Psychologists can bring alot more to the table. Thus, many of us have multiple duties as part of our job descriptions.

Yep, pretty much this. I've trained/worked in three VAs, and they were all setup slightly differently. I currently test all of my own patients, but have previously been places where techs or trainees routinely tested. As erg mentioned, it's mostly a matter of whether or not your VA has the money and your service chief is convincing enough to get some of it.

As for the dual appointments, again as erg mentioned, if there are official duties required by the joint appointment, the VA is usually going to block off clinic spots for you. I've also known of folks who were paid additional funds by affiliated AMCs, but those duties were handled after hours; thus, those folks usually turned in 50-60+ hours/week. Same would be the case for having a consulting gig/private practice on the side--you're likely going to be putting in those hours on evenings and/or weekends.

 

[OneNeuroDoctor]

Boston Process Approach allow flexibility and to be considered a neuropsychology evaluation, executive functioning and memory functioning need to be assessed. Some neuropsychologists routinely add the TOMM, MMPI2, and in some cases the Rorschach test to rule out malingering.

I believe from my brief review in the thread about VA is that he primarily used the RBANS Update which is mostly used as a screening instrument for geriatric population despite norms going down to age 12 for research purposes.

Again, there is flexibility allowed for neuropsychology measures. I attended a seminar last year where the Pediatric Neuropsychologist was using the McCarthy Scales, PPVT2, and Slossen Scales despite these scales being outdated. The process approach is not as concerned with norm reference but looks at the process the patient takes to complete a tasks as in Kaplan using a "string and stick" to evaluate someone. BPA is not strictly concerned about test scores and they may not even report test scores but report impaired or intact areas of functioning.

Some of the most respected neuropsychologist tend to go "Rebel" and go to the beat of a different drum refusing to buy updated expensive tests.

 

[erg923]

Boston Process Approach allow flexibility and to be considered a neuropsychology evaluation, executive functioning and memory functioning need to be assessed. Some neuropsychologists routinely add the TOMM, MMPI, and in some cases the Rorschach test to rule out malingering.

I believe from my brief review in the thread about VA is that he primarily used the RBANS Update which is mostly used as a screening instrument for geriatric population despite norms going down to age 12 for research purposes.

Again, there is flexibility allowed for neuropsychology measures. I attended a seminar last year where the Pediatric Neuropsychologist was using the McCarthy Scales, PPVT2, and Slossen Scales despite these scales being outdated. The process approach is not as concerned with norm reference but looks at the process the patient takes to complete a tasks as in Kaplan using a "string and stick" to evaluate someone. BPA is not strictly concerned about test scores and they may not even report test scores but report impaired or intact areas of functioning.

Some of the most respected neuropsychologist tend to go "Rebel" and go to the beat of a different drum refusing to buy updated expensive tests.

Yes, I am aware of flexible vs fixed battery debates, but thanks.

And, I still maintain that a "neuropsych evaluation" is only extensive as is needs to be in order to answer the question. A full battery for diff dx purposes would generally measure all those domains, I get that.

And Ror for malingering? You got research on that? Thats alot of time for little gain....

 

[erg923]

And why do I get the feeling you are asking questions, we answer them, and then you post stuff unrelated to that as if you were teaching a class? lol
Of which we then comment on, and then whole cycle starts again?

You care to come back to this post you made debating data that no one can seem to understand?

Norm referenced for determining quality of programs may give misleading numbers and this is no conspiracy! Student growth using ipsative measures tend to yield more accurate predictors of quality of programs. Again...PhD bias is a self serving bias based in fantasy, and not necessarily reality. Human factor engineering as in differential program characteristics may not be reduced to black/white or PhD/PsyD as broadly based differential components due to external validity characteristics of overlapping components exist among and between PhD and PsyD programs. Therefore, confounding and extraneous variables influence outcome variables and may be misleading. There are too many similarities among PhD and PsyD training that does not provide an adequate pretest-post test paradigm to adequately differentiate between the two training models with post test of APPIC match rate and EPPP performance without obvious results being inference to confounding factors.

 

[WisNeuro]

The Rorschach is a terrible test to use to get at malingering. Beyond terrible. Also, the Boston Process approach is not widely used outside of a few coastal areas, and even there it's use is waning. It lacks validity and reliability. Last, the RBANS isn't a screener per se. It's a comprehensive assessment of a sort, it just has a ceiling that is not appropriate for use in many populations. It's great for use in low functioning people to assess stability of function, but doesn't help much with anyone low average and above.

 

[erg923]

I was of course taught too look for and interpret process factors/errors when I was doing neuropsych prac, but not full on Boston Process because it was beyond time consuming and tedious, from what I recall.

 

[WisNeuro]

It's tedious and will get you shredded in court proceedings. I need to look up the specific case, but there was a major issue in the flexible vs fixed approach where the BPA just got destroyed in cross examination due to the lack of standardized administration and evidence for validity.

 

[erg923]

It's tedious and will get you shredded in court proceedings. I need to look up the specific case, but there was a major issue in the flexible vs fixed approach where the BPA just got destroyed in cross examination due to the lack of standardized administration and evidence for validity.

Baxter?

 

[WisNeuro]

Could be Baxter v. Temple, I'd have to review the court proceedings to see.

 

[OneNeuroDoctor]

Yeah the Rorschach is a test I don't use but some neuropsychologist use it. I am one of the anti projective camp and despite all the controversy it is still used.

I don't have my RBAN update kit at home but it seems that the manual specifies that the RBAN should not be considered a full test battery. For gero psych referrals we use the Trails A/B, RBANS Update, WASI2, CVLT2, Clock Drawing Test, Clinical Assessment Scales for Elderly, and other test if needed to answer the referral question.

 

[WisNeuro]

For normal gero patients, sure, that battery works. For an impaired gero inpatient sample who will uniformly time out on the TMT B and get no more than 3 words on trials 1-5 of the CVLT-II and 0 on the delay, not so much.

 

[OneNeuroDoctor]

For normal gero patients, sure, that battery works. For an impaired gero inpatient sample who will uniformly time out on the TMT B and get no more than 3 words on trials 1-5 of the CVLT-II and 0 on the delay, not so much.

Uh...I work in a psychiatric hospital, so most score impaired on the MMSE or the Montreal or they would not be referred for neuropsych testing.

 

[WisNeuro]

Impaired on the MMSE and MoCA is not very telling, especially in a psychiatric setting. Especially with poor administration rampant.