Someone with a DUI can still be an excellent doctor

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I dont like most driving related laws(including DUIs) in general because they pretend everyone is the same. The thing that seems to concern most people here about DUIs is the "bad decision". But what if that person was barely over the limit, and still able to drive well, and knew that he was able to drive well? Then the only error in judgement was refusing to abide by a law that can be quite arbitrary in the first place. And I am not sure I am willing to keep someone out of med school for that. Obviously part of being an adult and professional is existing in a system full of stupid arbitrary rules, but I still think it is far from a fatal flaw in that case.

Disclaimer: I do not have a DUI and I dont even really drink. I have had friends/relatives killed in DUI related accidents. I have also had relatives killed because somebody took their eyes off the road for a second to change the radio station. I dont think everyone who changes the radio station while driving should be kept out of med school.

The difference is that they were caught. Police officers don't just stop random people driving on the streets for no reason. If they were driving in a way that warranted a police officer to stop them, then they clearly were over their limit. Do a lot of people drive after drinking? Probably yes. But the people who aren't caught are more likely the people you're talking about - the ones who can drive almost perfectly fine with a BAC of .09. If you're caught, you did something to get the attention of a cop to get caught.

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What counts is both one's intentions and the results. That's how law works, in case you didn't know. Even if you didn't mean to hit that jaywalker who thought it would be a bright idea to run across a highway, you can still be charged with vehicular manslaughter.
What does that have to do with my post?
 
The difference is that they were caught. Police officers don't just stop random people driving on the streets for no reason. If they were driving in a way that warranted a police officer to stop them, then they clearly were over their limit. Do a lot of people drive after drinking? Probably yes. But the people who aren't caught are more likely the people you're talking about - the ones who can drive almost perfectly fine with a BAC of .09. If you're caught, you did something to get the attention of a cop to get caught.

Police officers actually do stop random people driving on streets for no reason, because some of them might have been drinking, at sobriety checkpoints.

Also, this attitude, that "some people can drive almost perfectly fine with a BAC of .09" is extremely dangerous. Most of the time, most people will get safely to their destinations. Most of them will attribute this, not to good fortune, but to their own superior skill and ability to drive despite drinking. Add to that the fact that alcohol lowers one's inhibitions and ability to make accurate assessments of their ability to drive. No one gets into a car thinking "I am going to kill somebody tonight." Every last drunk driver believes that they are "almost perfectly fine" right up to the point that they prove otherwise.

It is the same problem with doctors who think that rules shouldn't apply to them. Rules are for other people. They still operate almost perfectly fine after 30 hours without sleep. Sure handwashing is important, for other people to do. Etc.

Sorry, but if I ever have the good fortune to be on an admission committee, you can believe that I am going to be on the look out for people who think that they are above rules.
 
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Police officers actually do stop random people driving on streets for no reason, because some of them might have been drinking, at sobriety checkpoints.

Also, this attitude, that "some people can drive almost perfectly fine with a BAC of .09" is extremely dangerous. Most of the time, most people will get safely to their destinations. Most of them will attribute this, not to good fortune, but to their own superior skill and ability to drive despite drinking. Add to that the fact that alcohol lowers one's inhibitions and ability to make accurate assessments of their ability to drive. No one gets into a car thinking "I am going to kill somebody tonight." Every last drunk driver believes that they are "almost perfectly fine" right up to the point that they prove otherwise.

It is the same problem with doctors who think that rules shouldn't apply to them. Rules are for other people. They still operate almost perfectly fine after 30 hours without sleep. Sure handwashing is important, for other people to do. Etc.

Sorry, but if I ever have the good fortune to be on an admission committee, you can believe that I am going to be on the look out for people who think that they are above rules.

Sorry, I misquoted. My post was for the person above you who said that "everyone is different and everyone has different alcohol tolerances", which while I can admit to the legitimacy of the claim, is still not excuse to drive with a BAC of .09. And if they were CAUGHT while driving like this, they definitely are not the exceptions to the rule that the person brought up.

I've been driving for years and my parents for decades. We've never been stopped once by a police officer for alcohol related questions. In fact, out of everyone in my immediate family who drives, we've all collectively only been stopped once for suspicion of speeding. Perhaps this doesn't happen nearly as much where I live?

But otherwise, I'm pretty sure we agree on everything. Sorry again for the misquote. I'll edit.
 
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Just sayin'.

Doctor 1: Someone with excellent credentials (Let's say 95th percentile test scores and grades in undergrad through residency) and bedside manner who happened to get a DUI in college.

Doctor 2: Someone with inferior credentials (barely scraped his or her way into a US residency) and mediocre bedside manner but doesn't have a criminal record.

I would choose Doctor 1 over Doctor 2 for myself or a family member in a heartbeat. Maybe they just had a few beers and ended up blowing a point .09 at a roadside check. Doesn't make them a bad person or a less capable clinician. I'd rather be in the car with someone attentively driving with a .09 than trying to text and drive anyway...
Nope. Impossible. Everyone knows one event defines the entirety of your life.

(technically it could, but I think those reading know what I mean)

Oh pre-allo.
 
D
Sorry, I misquoted. My post was for the person above you who said that "everyone is different and everyone has different alcohol tolerances", which while I can admit to the legitimacy of the claim, is still not excuse to drive with a BAC of .09. And if they were CAUGHT while driving like this, they definitely are not the exceptions to the rule that the person brought up.

I've been driving for years and my parents for decades. We've never been stopped once by a police officer for alcohol related questions. In fact, out of everyone in my immediate family who drives, we've all collectively only been stopped once for suspicion of speeding. Perhaps this doesn't happen nearly as much where I live?

But otherwise, I'm pretty sure we agree on everything. Sorry again for the misquote. I'll edit.

I had a cop tail me for a couple miles before flashing me. Claimed I swerved and tested me. I was stone cold sober and remain convinced that I didn't swerve. You can't prove or refute that claim. Speeding, they clock you. But swerving? When I passed he was visibly annoyed. Whether there is a quota, bonus system, or they just really feel like they're protecting the world--it absolutely does happen.
 
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The idea that rules are stupid and arbitrary is problematic. So is your idea that someone can know themselves and know that they are above following the rules. But every single one of those stupid arbitrary rules was made in response to a problem, and often that problem IS the person who thinks that rules should not apply to them.

There are people I work with who believe that they are special, important, above the rules that are put in place to keep patients and staff safe. Many of those people are surgeons, and their attitudes are dangerous.

They are the doctors who don't want to stop closing the wounds to find a missing sponge because they know that they are good at what they do and wouldn't have left a sponge in the patient. Except that it happens. When we insist, and refuse to hand them any more surgical implements until they check the incision, they often find what would have become a retained object. Our insistence on following policy regarding surgical counts prevents complications, deaths, and lawsuits. And yet, surgeons whine and complain that OR nurses and techs are oppressing them by insisting on doing the safe thing, the same way, every single time.

I used to think like you. Lots of gifted children were mistreated by being taught that they were above the rules, that rules are stupid and meant for stupid people, not savants like us. That thought is toxic, and it will undermine you in the long run.

Well I was never a "gifted child" and never taught that I was above the rules. That must have been nice, but not anything close to what I experience. I just believe in a full evaluation of each individual circumstance and not a one size fit all solution. I think saying that everyone over a certain blood alcohol level is unfit to drive is the latter. It is especially absurd with all the other dangerous stuff that people(myself included) do when they drive that isnt demonized. Once again I dont even drink so I dont see how you can say that I am just seeing myself as above the rules. I dont have a dog in this fight.
 
How do you guys feel about people who drive while very tired? I do this sometimes(I would guess that most of us do). I am sure it can be quite dangerous, should I be viewed the same as you guys view somebody with a DUI? I get it a DUI is worse because being tired is just something that is unavoidable sometimes, but where is the line drawn? Why is somebody who causes an accident because of alcohol demonized exponentially wrong than somebody who causes an accident because they fell a sleep at the wheel after cramming for an orgo test? Or somebody who takes their eyes off the road to change the radio station.

I cant wait for driverless cars so all this nonsense can be avoided.
 
If you knowingly drive in a compromised state, you are willingly pitting MY life and the life of my family at great risk. Fatal car accidents is one of the biggest killers of people my age.
 
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Sorry. The way you are asking for individualized assessments of each specific circumstance suggested to me that someone had raised you as their special little snowflake. My bad if that isn't the case.

Are there people who might not be as impaired at .9 as some other person? Sure. Can anyone reliably judge that, particularly after they have had a few beers? No way. Literally, there is no safe way for anyone to assume that they really are the exception. In order to live together in a society, we have to agree to some boundaries, and one that was decided upon was a BAC limit of .8 or lower if you are going to drive. .9 isn't just past the ideal limit. The ideal, if you are going to be driving, is 0. 0.8 is an attempt to allow some leeway, for individual circumstances, and 0.9 represents the cut-off where pushing the limit becomes unacceptable.

It doesn't matter whether you ever drink a drop. My issue is not about the drinking and driving. It is about the sense of entitlement to decide when to follow rules and when not to do so.

I would have a doctor who had a DUI in their history. I would not allow someone to care for me if they demonstrated a consistent disrespect for reasonable boundaries and denial of personal responsibility.
 
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D


I had a cop tail me for a couple miles before flashing me. Claimed I swerved and tested me. I was stone cold sober and remain convinced that I didn't swerve. You can't prove or refute that claim. Speeding, they clock you. But swerving? When I passed he was visibly annoyed. Whether there is a quota, bonus system, or they just really feel like they're protecting the world--it absolutely does happen.

I have experienced this myself. But it was worse because I was in my mom's car and she likes to buy plants. Well some of the dirt of one of these plants fell in the middle console of the car and the cop thought it was weed, lol. I was 20 years old, on a saturday night during the summer passing a popular bar with what appeared to be weed in my car. And admittedly I was speeding. It was the first time I had ever been pulled over and I was scared ****less. Somehow got off without a ticket though. She threatened to call in the dogs and lock me up at least 5 times though.
 
Sorry. The way you are asking for individualized assessments of each specific circumstance suggested to me that someone had raised you as their special little snowflake. My bad if that isn't the case.

Are there people who might not be as impaired at .9 as some other person? Sure. Can anyone reliably judge that, particularly after they have had a few beers? No way. Literally, there is no safe way for anyone to assume that they really are the exception. In order to live together in a society, we have to agree to some boundaries, and one that was decided upon was a BAC limit of .8 or lower if you are going to drive. .9 isn't just past the ideal limit. The ideal, if you are going to be driving, is 0. 0.8 is an attempt to allow some leeway, for individual circumstances, and 0.9 represents the cut-off where pushing the limit becomes unacceptable.

It doesn't matter whether you ever drink a drop. My issue is not about the drinking and driving. It is about the sense of entitlement to decide when to follow rules and when not to do so.

I would have a doctor who had a DUI in their history. I would not allow someone to care for me if they demonstrated a consistent disrespect for reasonable boundaries and denial of personal responsibility.

I never said the rules shouldnt be followed if you disagree with them. In fact in my first post I made sure to specifically mention that part of being an adult and professional was following stupid arbitrary rules. I just said in the particular scenario I mentioned that wouldnt be enough to keep that person out of med school for me, and that I dont see everyone with a DUI as a monster.
 
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Actually being an adult is recognizing that just because you don't understand or agree with the reasoning behind something, that doesn't make it stupid or arbitrary.

Being so dismissive of the needs and rights of others that are encoded in rules and laws speaks to me of poor character, which is the best reason I can imagine to keep someone out of medical school.

Happily, it is a big world and there is room for both of us.
 
D


I had a cop tail me for a couple miles before flashing me. Claimed I swerved and tested me. I was stone cold sober and remain convinced that I didn't swerve. You can't prove or refute that claim. Speeding, they clock you. But swerving? When I passed he was visibly annoyed. Whether there is a quota, bonus system, or they just really feel like they're protecting the world--it absolutely does happen.

THIS.

This one time I was driving a shiny red with white stripes dodge viper about 74-76 mph in a 70 and out of nowhere this black thing appears in my rearview mirror almost immediately. It's an undercover charger. I vaguely remember passing an undercover charger going the OTHER WAY about 4-5 miles ago. The hellish-looking black vehicle suddenly developed blue lights, so I pulled over thinking I was getting busted for my window tint. To my surprise the cop writes me a ticket for doing 90. Then I realized what this was about. Shiny red viper, cop with a fast car and ego, 4-5 mile lag between location of supposed offense and location of traffic stop? Yeah, the guy saw my car, floored it until he got to the next median turnaround a mile away or so, then proceeded to do probably about 130 mph on a wide open stretch of empty highway until he finally caught me. I am sure that this must have made him miserable. But clearly me exceeding the speed limit by 4-6 mph justified him chasing after me at 130+ mph and giving me a lecture about how me driving that fast results in "brain matter all over the highway."

So yeah, cops can do pretty much whatever they want and charge you with whatever they want. You get a good lawyer and do what you can if this happens to you (and driving a silver honda civic always helps).

My point is, try not to ever drink anything and drive. If you have one beer and hop in the car, get pulled over, and the cop doesn't like you and smells alcohol, he can make you get out of the car and do a field sobriety test and fail you and charge you with DUI. Even you have a 0.04 down at the station, you can still be charged and convicted of DUI. Remember, the USA has one of the most liberal drunk driving laws in the world. In many countries it's <0.05, and many others have a zero tolerance policy. That said, I am always amazed at two things:

(1) The number of people who drink to the point of intoxication and claim they have never done it. Bullsh|t. If you've ever been drunk in your life more than once, you almost undoubtedly have gotten behind the wheel while impaired whether you admit it to yourself or not (besides the scores of other bad decisions you have probably made -- Somehow you thought texting your ex, buying patron shots for the whole bar, and sleeping in the alley were all ok things to do, but you've always been smart enough while drunk to never drive? Yeah right.) Hopefully you learned from it, didn't make excuses, and don't put yourself in the position again. But we see all the time people going out and drinking and driving home (oh I had 5 drinks, but it was over 4 hours, I'm good. Yeah right buddy tell that one to the judge)

(2) The number of med students, residents, and physicians I see drinking and driving and using drugs while driving. Yet, I almost never hear about a DUI charge. Something doesn't add up there. Somehow it's not shameful if you do it, but only if you get caught and can't hide it? You think with more to lose, you'd be more cautious, especially in an environment where a DUI can be career ending and cops can pretty much make up stuff and get away with it (he was swerving, I smelled alcohol, etc.)
 
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Yes. This is true. I've long thought that drunk driving should be treated as some equivalent as depraved indifference or attempted manslaughter.
Depraved indifference, maybe. Attempted manslaughter, no. Drunk drivers are not attempting to kill.
Funny how all the young people here are trying to rationalize how DUI can't be bad.

If there were a board for Bernie Madoffs and ilk they'd all be rationalizing how making money off the backs of others through lying would be acceptable.

Let's face it guys, the ones defending DUI here are precisely the ones who are most likely to be caught DUI.
Ad Hominem
The idea that rules are stupid and arbitrary is problematic. So is your idea that someone can know themselves and know that they are above following the rules. But every single one of those stupid arbitrary rules was made in response to a problem, and often that problem IS the person who thinks that rules should not apply to them.

There are people I work with who believe that they are special, important, above the rules that are put in place to keep patients and staff safe. Many of those people are surgeons, and their attitudes are dangerous.

They are the doctors who don't want to stop closing the wounds to find a missing sponge because they know that they are good at what they do and wouldn't have left a sponge in the patient. Except that it happens. When we insist, and refuse to hand them any more surgical implements until they check the incision, they often find what would have become a retained object. Our insistence on following policy regarding surgical counts prevents complications, deaths, and lawsuits. And yet, surgeons whine and complain that OR nurses and techs are oppressing them by insisting on doing the safe thing, the same way, every single time.

I used to think like you. Lots of gifted children were mistreated by being taught that they were above the rules, that rules are stupid and meant for stupid people, not savants like us. That thought is toxic, and it will undermine you in the long run.
Every rule is meant to protect me? No. Many rules are good and protect people, but many are also stupid crap that got a politician reelected. For example, making steroid possession a felony offense or even illegal for an adult is insane.
What counts is both one's intentions and the results. That's how law works, in case you didn't know. Even if you didn't mean to hit that jaywalker who thought it would be a bright idea to run across a highway, you can still be charged with vehicular manslaughter.
No reasonable jury would convict.
No one is saying that being intoxicated is bad. We're saying that making the decision to drive intoxicated, knowing that you are endangering other people, and driving BAD ENOUGH to be caught is bad.

Clearly you're privileged enough to not know anyone who was killed by a person DUI. Let's hope that never happens.
Ad Hominem
Everyone thinks they're a special cookie but the fact is they aren't. It's not like great doctors are getting slaughtered each day and it's not like people with potential to be great doctors aren't being born anymore.

There are no second acts in American life. If you screw up, thanks for trying. You might think you're special, but so did every other human who walked this Earth before you for the last two millennia.
You seem to be confusing America with some ancient medieval culture. America is all about second chances.
Actually being an adult is recognizing that just because you don't understand or agree with the reasoning behind something, that doesn't make it stupid or arbitrary.

Being so dismissive of the needs and rights of others that are encoded in rules and laws speaks to me of poor character, which is the best reason I can imagine to keep someone out of medical school.

Happily, it is a big world and there is room for both of us.
Actually being an adult is about being able to discern which laws are crap from which aren't. That is why we let adults vote to change laws as opposed to children who think laws are some special rulebook from on high.
 
I see that you know one rhetorical technique and can identify examples of it. Congratulations.
 
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I see that you know one rhetorical technique and can identify examples of it. Congratulations.
Make more logical fallacies and I will happily identify them for you if I know them. I am not sure what type of rhetoric this one you just posted qualifies as, but it is clearly one.
 
Lol pre allo. Yeah drunk driving isn't a big deal at all, oh wait it is. It's poor judgement. It's dangerous and a hazard to the person themself and everyone else on the road. You realize things like. 08 weren't arbitrarily developed, right? People aren't like '' let's have a pow wow to determine the arbitrary number to set the legal BAC at. ''

If you think it's OK to openly endanger people to that kind of level, then you absolutely should have penalties. Not to mention the whole fact that the people caught for drunk driving are incredibly small compared to the total number of people that do it.
 
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so can someone with a 27-29 mcat, but that doesnt they can get into a med school. :(
 
Ad Hominem

I don't think you know what an ad hominem is. My last sentence was more of a side remark. Thanks for clearly ignoring everything I wrote before.
 
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I don't think you know what an ad hominem is. My last sentence was more of a side remark. Thanks for clearly ignoring everything I wrote before.
It looks like the system somehow cross quoted myself and V5red.
 
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Yes you can still be an excellent doctor with a DUI. No you aren't necessarily a wholly bad person because of one mistake.

But it is still an incredibly poor and inexcusable decision that you should be condemned for. You make a bad decision, there will be consequences and you aren't excused from those consequences. And you will be judged for that because there are enough people in this world that don't have a DUI and would also make excellent doctors. Unfortunately, people don't have the time to listen and try to empathize with your entire life experience to understand what kind of person you are. All that matters to them are your individual actions and that is the basis of which they will judge your character, or whether you're fit to be a doctor.

That's the reality of it so all you really can do is just try not to make inexcusably dumb decisions and learn from them when you do.


Side note: I do know people who will be going to med school (top 10 schools at that) who have driven under the influence in college (but weren't caught). If we're strictly speaking about knowledge, bedside manner, and ability to do procedures, I think they'll make excellent doctors. If we're talking about how ethical they'll be if it comes time to save their own ass, I don't have the greatest confidence in them. But I do think they've changed since their drinking and driving days, or at least I hope.
 
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Driving under the influence = shooting a person with a revolver loaded with single round. How many chambers are there? I don't know. It can be 6 or even 10 millions.
However, making a decision to take a chance with someone's life only for one's comfort is unethical.

Who knows? If DUI is allowed, Doing Surgery under the influence should be allowed too
 
Let's face it guys, the ones defending DUI here are precisely the ones who are most likely to be caught DUI.

Yes, that seems like a perfectly reasonably conclusion to make.

What a lot of people seem to forget in this thread is that everyone makes mistakes. Yes, even you holier than thou types who seem to think getting a DUI is equivalent to killing babies. I'm sure there are some stupid things most of you have done that could've potentially resulted in serious, life-changing consequences, but didn't - for whatever reason. Pretty much everyone has had that experience at some point in their lives.

I would also add for your consideration the idea that people are more than the worst thing they've ever done. I think it's pretty weak to demonize someone for a one time mistake (all these claims of patterns of behavior based on one event have no basis in reality) when you almost certainly don't hold yourself to the same standard.

I'm not defending drinking and driving by any means. But I also think people make mistakes and can learn from them. Barring someone from a profession for a single mistake is just absurd to me. People that see life in such dichotomous terms should, I think, take a look at themselves and think about how much "better" they really are if some things in their lives had gone a slightly different way.

Cool down on damning others - you're not a saint compared to these people despite what you may believe.


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Depraved indifference, maybe. Attempted manslaughter, no. Drunk drivers are not attempting to kill.

Manslaughter, not murder. Manslaughter doesn't require intent to kill the way that murder does. IANAL or anything, but I do know that if you kill someone while drunk driving it is often charged as involuntary manslaughter. I'm not sure if "attempted manslaughter" is even a thing, but that's what drunk driving is IMO.
 
It doesn't barr someone from anything, it simply discourages their chances. And if you think two people, one with a DUI, one without and all else equal, should be looked at the same by an admissions board then Idk what to tell you. I don't think any schools have an auto elimination for people with a DUI. Obviously it negatively affect their application, as it should.
 
It looks like the system somehow cross quoted myself and V5red.

Ugh, or maybe I just suck at quoting. This is the second time it happened in this thread. My apologies.
 
The reality of the matter, and the silliness of this thread, is that not all physicians with DUIs had top test scores, 95th percentile in their class, and blew only a 0.09.

And not all physicians with top test scores and grades are going to be the greatest either.
 
I think this thread highlights the really awful judgmental side of humans. The people who are quick to label someone a bad person for something they have done in their lives need to stop and think about the reality of being human. We are naturally inclined to be discerning and judgemental, but to take one minute piece of information about a person and define their entire being by that is wrong. We all have shortcomings and there is someone in the world who might think you are a terrible person for the things you do in your life. Unless you know the ins and outs of a person and their situation, the only thing you are entitled to do is acknowledge they have done something bad. That doesn't give you the right to say they are bad people. You are saying these horrible things under the assumption that these people are heartless, ignorant, unremorseful, or unaware of what it is they have done. Think about a time when you did something wrong and how you felt about yourself as a result. Instead of heaping judgement and shame on people for their mistakes, take the high road and acknowledge that they did something bad and support them in their recovery. Life is hard enough with all of the s**t that gets thrown at you randomly. Why chose to make someone feel worse about themselves?

In resonse to the OP. I think there is a definite disadvantage to having such a blemish on your record, and the AdCom has a right to very thoroughly look into the situation, the candidate, and their character. But i would hope the AdCom is headed by people who are wise enough to know that a person is more than one instance in their life. If the candidate can eloquently and genuinely explain the situation and how it is NOT representative of who they are, I think they should be given a chance in Medical school. After all, Life experience is invaluable in the practice of medicine and having the strength to pull yourself up, clean yourself off, and look yourself in the mirror and not hating yourself after doing somthing awful takes an enormous amount of strength.

But that's just the way I see it.
 
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Feeling bad about yourself gets a bad rap. When you do something stupid and horrible you are supposed to feel bad, it helps you to not do it again.
 
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Hi everyone,

Wanted to let you know that I got into a US MD program :)

Honesty and learning from your mistakes are the best policies
 
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Congrats! Although the fact that you're posting about your acceptance in this thread makes me wonder if you do have a DUI on your record. Still stand by the fact that you don't?

Regardless, well done. I hope to be celebrating alongside you in a few months!
 
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Hi everyone,

Wanted to let you know that I got into a US MD program :)

Honesty and learning from your mistakes are the best policies
Time to celebrate.
smileys-beer-817053.gif
 
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Congrats! Although the fact that you're posting about your acceptance in this thread makes me wonder if you do have a DUI on your record. Still stand by the fact that you don't?

Regardless, well done. I hope to be celebrating alongside you in a few months!

I hope you are too :)

The legal situation was a bit complicated, and more than I care to go in to here. However, I have fully forthcoming in my applications & interviews so far and it has been well received. This best interviewers have had a forgiving and non-judgmental attitude, and I can say that I will be the same way with my patients.

To those who have made mistakes in the past, I would not suggest seeking help addressing them in your app on SDN. You will find a few good-hearted and realistic people among many pessimists and gunners who are insecure about their own Lizzy M. scores and candidacy for med school. Be kind to yourself and those around you; what is meant to be will be.

To those who are as narrow-minded as the poster below, good luck being a compassionate doc and I really hope the care of a family member is not entrusted to you.

I see that you know one rhetorical technique and can identify examples of it. Congratulations.
 
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(1) The number of people who drink to the point of intoxication and claim they have never done it. Bullsh|t. If you've ever been drunk in your life more than once, you almost undoubtedly have gotten behind the wheel while impaired whether you admit it to yourself or not (besides the scores of other bad decisions you have probably made -- Somehow you thought texting your ex, buying patron shots for the whole bar, and sleeping in the alley were all ok things to do, but you've always been smart enough while drunk to never drive? Yeah right.) Hopefully you learned from it, didn't make excuses, and don't put yourself in the position again. But we see all the time people going out and drinking and driving home (oh I had 5 drinks, but it was over 4 hours, I'm good. Yeah right buddy tell that one to the judge)
That's a BS generalization. Some people don't bring cars to events that they drive to, or don't drink at all if they know they'll be driving. It's not that hard to stick to.
If I want to get sloppy at any point, I do not make a car available to myself. And yes, unanticipated situations crop up...I've literally spent hours walking around a freezing city I didn't know at 3 in the morning with no phone or money because the D.D. turned out to be the dude I was sitting next to at the bar. I've also slept in my car for a few hours on nights where I ended up having 2-3 drinks over 3-4hrs because I don't allow myself any leeway on that front (and yes, I know you can get a DUI for entering your car with keys while drunk, which is why I always popped the trunk, put my keys in it, then crawled into the backseat from the passenger's side before locking the car...maybe I'd still get busted, but it would be difficult to demonstrate intent to drive for entering a car without the keys on my person. And hey, odds are I would've passed a breathalyzer anyway, it was more to live up to my own personal standards).
My point isn't to say 'oh I am an amazing exception' or anything...just that it's not that difficult and I think it's unfair to assume that it's really that rare for people to be careful and cognizant of their alcohol intake when keys are involved.
 
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