Spoke to a recruiter today about becoming an sf doctor. Need opinions on what this individual said

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MoGhazidoc1990

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Hey guys
I spoke to a recruiter today about becoming an sf doctor. They said all the same things I already have heard.
It's possible but hard to do if you are commissioning as a doctor.
Also she said that it depends in leadership.

But she did make an interesting suggestion.
She said that you could enter the army after you become board certified as an board certified physician and enter the army as an E4. When you enter you can than try and get into the special course you want in this case being ranger or q course and after being selected you can than tell them you are a board certified doctor and than practice either before or after deploying.
I asked her if they would make me stay on as something other than a doc after I get through the course she said no they can't stop you from applying to amed.

Any thoughts on what they are telling me? Genuine or not genuine?
How badly would my medical career be hurt if I went through the q course and was out of medical practice for 2 years as compared to the 61 days for ranger school?

Thanks

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Hahahahaha Run my friend! That recruiter is trying to screw you over!!!

Seriously. Let's say you get picked up and get through part of q course. You get injured or wash out for some reason. Then they just send you to do whatever the backup plan was in your contract. Maybe regular infantry, maybe food service. Then you will do that as long as the army sees fit. They will get their pound of flesh. Or conversely, you get through The q course, then they will want you to finish your time in whatever MOS you enlisted as, then you can come back as a doctor. They might not even make you a SOF medic. They might make you a commo or a weapons nco.

Also, are you ready to take on all the bull**** that comes with being an e4? 750$ a paycheck after taxes? Details? Barracks living with some guy who barely graduated high school and leaves his dip cups all over your room? Morning and evening formation?
 
docs trying to be ninjas are a sad waste of resources......you won't be good enough at fighting to not be a risk to your team and all that time spent trying to be a fighter will make you a worse doctor.

pick one, not both
 
Hey guys
I spoke to a recruiter today about becoming an sf doctor. They said all the same things I already have heard.
It's possible but hard to do if you are commissioning as a doctor.
Also she said that it depends in leadership.

But she did make an interesting suggestion.
She said that you could enter the army after you become board certified as an board certified physician and enter the army as an E4. When you enter you can than try and get into the special course you want in this case being ranger or q course and after being selected you can than tell them you are a board certified doctor and than practice either before or after deploying.
I asked her if they would make me stay on as something other than a doc after I get through the course she said no they can't stop you from applying to amed.

Any thoughts on what they are telling me? Genuine or not genuine?
How badly would my medical career be hurt if I went through the q course and was out of medical practice for 2 years as compared to the 61 days for ranger school?

Thanks



Have a bachelor's degree and can pass APFT? Do the OCS. That b*tch was f*cking with your life man.


Edit: Unless you're stupid like me a few years ago, with a Bachelor's and a Pharm.D. wanting to enlist in the Field Artillery for the adrenaline rush.
 
Everyone one is probably wondering where im.getting this idea from. Well here is a post from the site itself.
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/special-operations-medicine.279382/
So I'm not sure why the info is so conflicting.

What information?

It's a decade old thread. I don't see anything on there conflicting.

Enlisting after finishing residency would be a foolish use of time.

There's opportunities for docs if you choose to pursue this stuff including opportunities for schooling.

As I mentioned before take HPSP, train in EM, then start emailing folks at the beginning of your third year of training regarding opportunities.
 
What information?

It's a decade old thread. I don't see anything on there conflicting.

Enlisting after finishing residency would be a foolish use of time.

There's opportunities for docs if you choose to pursue this stuff including opportunities for schooling.

As I mentioned before take HPSP, train in EM, then start emailing folks at the beginning of your third year of training regarding opportunities.
Ok cool but I am an IMG so I will start emailing people after my third year of residency before I join correct?
 
Ok cool but I am an IMG
Are you a US citizen in med school abroad, or not a US citizen in med school outside the US? FMG vs IMG means different things to different people ... citizenship status matters when looking at paths into the military.


Regardless, don't enlist post med school, no matter what anyone says. That's insane.
 
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Are you a US citizen in med school abroad, or not a US citizen in med school outside the US? FMG vs IMG means different things to different people ... citizenship status matters when looking at paths into the military.


Regardless, don't enlist post med school, no matter what anyone says. That's insane.
I'm a us citizen abroad. My real goal is to not be a door kicker but to be a fort or battalion surgeon with a sf unit and train with them. Maybe not q course but if the opportunity arose ranger school and at least be flight surgeon dmo and airborne
 
I'm a us citizen abroad. My real goal is to not be a door kicker but to be a fort or battalion surgeon with a sf unit and train with them. Maybe not q course but if the opportunity arose ranger school and at least be flight surgeon dmo and airborne
so you want to be able to brag in a bar?

all jokes aside, those courses sound interesting and I'd like to be able to complete some of them but it's poor resource management to spend that training money on a doctor
 
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You know what... go become a snake eater and be a medic. You'll have plenty of 'doctoring' stuff to do and get your fill with all that you're wanting to do.
 
Hey guys
I spoke to a recruiter today about becoming an sf doctor. They said all the same things I already have heard.
It's possible but hard to do if you are commissioning as a doctor.
Also she said that it depends in leadership.

But she did make an interesting suggestion.
She said that you could enter the army after you become board certified as an board certified physician and enter the army as an E4. When you enter you can than try and get into the special course you want in this case being ranger or q course and after being selected you can than tell them you are a board certified doctor and than practice either before or after deploying.
I asked her if they would make me stay on as something other than a doc after I get through the course she said no they can't stop you from applying to amed.

Any thoughts on what they are telling me? Genuine or not genuine?
How badly would my medical career be hurt if I went through the q course and was out of medical practice for 2 years as compared to the 61 days for ranger school?

Thanks

Probably one of the most foolish ideas that I've seen on this post in a while. If you enlist then you'd have to finish your obligation pursuant to your contract. They will not let you go early to go practice as a doctor. They'd probably make you a medic where you'd be checking vitals and what not in a clinic somewhere. There was a FMG who was not a US citizen (permanent resident) who enlisted in the military as a permanent resident. This was his door in to do residency through the military only after he completed his contractual obligation as an E4 medic. It makes no sense to go through residency and board certification only to enlist. However, this is 2015 and people seem to do whatever they please.
 
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Hey guys
I spoke to a recruiter today about becoming an sf doctor. They said all the same things I already have heard.
It's possible but hard to do if you are commissioning as a doctor.
Also she said that it depends in leadership.

But she did make an interesting suggestion.
She said that you could enter the army after you become board certified as an board certified physician and enter the army as an E4. When you enter you can than try and get into the special course you want in this case being ranger or q course and after being selected you can than tell them you are a board certified doctor and than practice either before or after deploying.
I asked her if they would make me stay on as something other than a doc after I get through the course she said no they can't stop you from applying to amed.

Any thoughts on what they are telling me? Genuine or not genuine?
How badly would my medical career be hurt if I went through the q course and was out of medical practice for 2 years as compared to the 61 days for ranger school?

Thanks

If you enlist under an 18x (active duty) or REP 63 (National guard) contract, you are given a chance to go through the q course and, if you pass it, the rest of special forces training. If you accept either contract there are only two options: Pass and be enlisted in the SF, or fail and be enlisted in the normal Army. You cannot get out of your contract if you fail, you're still enlisted as a regular soldier. You cannot switch to being a doctor if you fail. You cannot join the SF directly as an officer. Finally even if you pass you won't be a doctor with the SF, you will be an enlisted guy in the SF (maybe a medic, maybe not) who happens to also have a medical degree. There are a handful of doctors who have done this via the national guard path, which I think is silly but is definitely an option that is open to you. It is not possible to do the active duty path and simultaneously be a doctor, because being active duty in the SF is a full time job that does not allow for other part time jobs.

To answer your second question, yes being out of medical practice for 2 years would seriously hurt your career. More importantly it would hurt your patients. Most of us have a hard enough time doing this safely even devoting all of our time to it. Even if you found someone to hire you with a two year gap in your employment (there's probably someone) you would spend at least the first 6 months relearning medicine without supervision. Odds are you'd hurt dozens of people during that time there's a good chance you'd actually kill at least one of them along the way.
 
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There are several cases of people who were enlisted special operations personnel before medical school staying in their enlisted position in a reserve component so that they could keep doing the fun stuff. Going the enlisted route after medical school is a poor choice for the reasons above.
 
OP, serious question......athletically speaking, are you a badass?
 
docs trying to be ninjas are a sad waste of resources......you won't be good enough at fighting to not be a risk to your team and all that time spent trying to be a fighter will make you a worse doctor.

pick one, not both


How about medical ninjas?
 
I do not have personal experience since I have never worked in SOCOM but there are multiple forward surgical team surgeons that are attached to SOCOM units in Afghanistan. This is what you do. You graduate medical school, you get a residency in general surgery at a place where you will get a lot of trauma experience. You then enter the Army and request assignment at a hospital in a SOCOM base/unit. You then volunteer/request to deploy with a forward surgical team. I'm sure like most deployments very few people want to do FST deployments so probably you will be able to go as much as you want. My guess though is that after a couple deployments, it won't be as fun as you may have thought. As a doctor you won't ever be kicking down doors, if you want to do that become a SEAL or a Ranger.
 
I have met one of the SF doctors. He did an internal medicine residency and then followed that up by completing the Q course, before becoming the Battalion surgeon for an SF group. He told me that the Army is no longer sending physicians through the Q course, which makes sense given the expense and time commitment involved. I have heard of some doctors joining the National Guard and becoming special forces medics on the side of their regular private practice. Perhaps this is an option available to you. If you want to do special operations as an officer and use your healthcare knowledge, the Air Force has combat rescue officer positions available. I still think that route is complete a waste of time for a board-certified physician, but hey, you wanted to know what was out there.
 
I am a USUHS student and have meet many physicians who were with SF units. Most of them are EM trained, but at least one was FM trained. They all have the jump quals, dive quals, etc. I do not know about them going through the actual Q course though because I'm Navy and don't even know what the Q course is.
 
I am a USUHS student and have meet many physicians who were with SF units. Most of them are EM trained, but at least one was FM trained. They all have the jump quals, dive quals, etc. I do not know about them going through the actual Q course though because I'm Navy and don't even know what the Q course is.

Equiv to BUD/S.
 
A few things, and I think we discussed this on the EM board:

1) This may have changed but at least in the AF there are dedicated health profession recruiters. Everyone else has a quota for getting people to enlist. Officers do not enlist. A recruiter will tell you anything to get you to enlist. For example, my college roommate was an ROTC student like me. Three weeks before graduation (and commissioning) a recruiter managed to call him and was trying to convince him to drop out of school with three weeks left, enlist in the AF, and then try to get a commission through OCS. Again, three weeks before graduation and commissioning. Now this probably varies by service, but never talk to a normal recruiter about being an officer - including a physician.

2) Physicians are extremely valuable commodities in the military. (I could do a long post on "MASH Syndrome" but not here.) The military will do almost anything not to put them at risk. In the late 80's in Europe there was a question if a physician could be part of a team to recover an injured downed pilot. The answer given was clear: absolutely not! There are also Geneva-convention issues and even if it is not relevant for a particular conflict, the military wants to keep the "moral high ground." Now here is a little secret: If WW III starts, and you are a physician, you will be used as a physician. It doesn't matter if you are serving in a different capacity. Back in the late 80's there was a physician who served as a wing deputy commander with a reserve unit - actively practicing medicine in the "real" world - and was proud that he was outside the AF medical establishment. I can tell you with absolute certainty that if there was a major conflict (bigger than Desert Storm) he would be back to being used as a physician in a minute. You may be able to be a physician and serve in a different capacity in a reserve/NG unit, but if things get desperate, believe me, you will be found and you will be used as a physician.

3) The military offers a ton of courses covering just about everything you can possibly imagine. If things are not too busy, and there is space available (as there usually is because someone always has medical issues) it is possible to wiggle into one of those slots on a "space available" basis. So it is not uncommon for physicians assigned to special operations support units to be able to wiggle their way into many courses. So you will often see physicians with military free fall, or parachute badges, or combat diver badges. However, this does not mean they are part of operational units.

4) In addition to all the above, keep in mind that there is not much more a physician could do than a SF medic or a PJ in a combat setting. If you are in the wilderness with a Boy Scout troop, and someone falls and hits their head, and all you have is a cheap first aid kit and a penknife, the neurosurgeon or the EM physician is not going to be able to do much more than the EMT. The limiting factor in these environments is not necessarily physician skill, but the resources available.

So in summary, it is possible to be a military physician and do some really fun things. If you are in the right place you can do some "special force-y" type things, but you will not be part of operational missions.
 
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Ask Dr Macdonald how the special forces/medical officer thing worked out. Address: federal prison Cumberland MD.
 
Ask Dr Macdonald how the special forces/medical officer thing worked out. Address: federal prison Cumberland MD.
I think as long as you can avoid brutally murdering your entire family, you're probably safe in that regard.
 
Hey guys
I spoke to a recruiter today about becoming an sf doctor. They said all the same things I already have heard.
It's possible but hard to do if you are commissioning as a doctor.
Also she said that it depends in leadership.

But she did make an interesting suggestion.
She said that you could enter the army after you become board certified as an board certified physician and enter the army as an E4. When you enter you can than try and get into the special course you want in this case being ranger or q course and after being selected you can than tell them you are a board certified doctor and than practice either before or after deploying.
I asked her if they would make me stay on as something other than a doc after I get through the course she said no they can't stop you from applying to amed.

Any thoughts on what they are telling me? Genuine or not genuine?
How badly would my medical career be hurt if I went through the q course and was out of medical practice for 2 years as compared to the 61 days for ranger school?

Thanks


as someone who has gotten a lot of flack on here because I am coming back to the Army when I didn't have to, even I have to say this is insane. Its this simple: when you are an enlisted Soldier the Army owns you. Period. As a former Infantryman and future Army doctor I cannot tell you how bad of an idea this is, and I'm coming back specifically because of operational medicine. I thought about the countless examples I could provide as to why this is the dumbest idea ever, but really if this is an actual option just smack yourself in the face.
 
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