Stanford/Harvard MD/PHD (Physics-Genetics) Chances, Went To CC?

[CriticalLimit]

So far I have a 3.94 GPA and I'm a double major in Applied Mathematics and Biological Engineering, but I guarantee my it will drop next fall when I take fluid mechanics, thermodynamics, complex analysis, physical chemistry, and neuroscience. I'm gauging my GPA to be around 3.88-3.9 after the fall and maybe around 3.85 when I graduate. If I can turn up the heat, I think I can maybe graduate closer to 3.88 or 3.9

I want to apply to an MD/PHD Program at Harvard or Stanford. I haven't received my MCAT scores yet, but I was pretty confident on it, and all the mock MCAT's/Practice tests I've taken before had me between 32 to 36, and I actually found this MCAT more facile than my old MCAT practices, I'm feeling around 33 to 35.

What are my chances at getting into HMS or SMS for an MD/PHD? I want to get a PhD in Medical Physics (So far my thesis for my senior project that I've been working on has to do with using principles of physics in diagnostic hardware. My applied math major is physics based, and I've taken about 12 hours of physics electives past calculus based physics I and II) and an MD specialization in Chemical Genetics. I want to be a geneticist and plot out mathematical algorithms to sequence pedigrees. I'm stronger in math/logic/computer science than I am at biology, but I've done well in genetics, evolution, a&p, etc. But, I've taken some classes like Chemistry I and II, Calculus III, and Physics II at a community college near the university where I'm now full time, which I'm scared will hurt me for Harvard or Stanford MD/PHD.

Here are some stats:

*White male
*Dad is a Pharmacist, mother is an English teacher, so our pooled family income is ~$130-145k
*Did research for a lot of psychology/neuroscience departments, but as a statistics slave, because I knew multivariate calculus based statistics. Didn't do much neuroscience or psychology
*Did actual research for bioengineering department
*Did some physics/materials science research (mostly programming, but I helped a lot in brainstorming, troubleshooting, and assisting)
*Have a LOR from a PhD Harvard graduate Physics professor, a Math PhD professor from University of Wisconsin-Madison, and a PhD from University of Michigan Organic Chemist.
*In some research program at my school where we do mathematical modeling on biological systems, got a scholarship for it. One of 8 individuals. One of 2 math majors.
*Tutored math/chemistry/physics for 6 years so far in elementary, high school, and collegiate settings.
*Organizer of a program/tutoring alliance where we unite Muslims at mosques/Jews from synagogues/Christians from a Baptist church in town to sit together and share/learn science.
*Intern at Lockheed Martin for biomedical engineering (I helped program some of the machines for the HULC suit to help soldiers carry heavier loads without injury, shadowed some mechanical/biomedical engineers)
*Did research/interned at the electrical engineering department for medical nanotechnology hardware
*Worked as a pharmacy technician for 3 years.

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[StIGMA]

Honestly, your chances are not good. There is nothing remarkable about your application, and your GPA/MCAT are average (GPA) and below average (MCAT) for both programs. Your research experience doesn't appear to be significant.

According to the standards in our FAQ, your GPA is in the excellent category (which doesn't mean much, I would say it makes you considerable), your projected MCAT may not even be 'Ok' (34+), and your research experience may not even be 'Ok,' but I cannot tell from your post. So, you may be a borderline applicant to any MD/PhD program.

Taking a few CC classes won't hurt you, it is just that your application is nothing special compared to all the other amazing applicants. If your research experience is outstanding (and I cannot gauge that from your post), your chances are better. When you apply, you need to apply very broadly (like >15 programs) if you are considering top programs, and you also need to apply to less competitive programs. Don't expect to get into a top program.

 

[sp808]

What will hurt you the most is that there is nothing in your CV or post that explains why you want to become a physician. Why not just get a PhD?

 

[CriticalLimit]

I want to be a Physician because cancer runs in my father's side of the family. My aunt had uterine cancer and died from it, my aunt had breast cancer and died from it, my dad had very small tumors on his head, but survived. My uncle survived kidney cancer after my dad gave him a kidney. My dad comes from a family of 8, including himself. I want to do work on oncogenes.

Also, my research is pretty stemmed out. I've been published in IEEE for a publication on the role of gallium arsenide semiconductors in electron tunneling in logic gates on x-ray screening. The materials/physics research I did was for cleaner plastics to mitigate chemical poisoning in food packaging, HULC is used in Afghanistan today. I've done multiple cellular and ecological models on MATLAB using C++ and Partial Differential Equations that my professor published, but I'm given credit in the publication for most of the numerical analysis. I might try to intern at Texas A&M's Cyclotron collider, not sure if I'll get in this summer.

 

[CriticalLimit]

I'm also applying to CalTech and MIT for PhD's in Computational Biology if I don't get in...

 

[vitalamine]

Why are you so focused on harvard and stanford?

If you really want to be a physician scientist you are severely limiting your chances. Sounds like prestige is an important motive for you.

 

[FalconSlice]

I'm also applying to CalTech and MIT for PhD's in Computational Biology if I don't get in...

So CalTech and MIT are your safeties? I'm not going to say anything else.

 

[postalkwk]

Having your sights set on two programs is really risky and ridiculous for MD, and then even more so for MSTP. I got an interview at UCSF, but was rejected from some way less prestigious programs pre interview. Banking everything on 2 schools is very likely to lead to disappointment. Ultimately, if you want to do MD-PhD, you need to apply to way more than 2 programs if you want a good shot at acceptance. Also - wanting to work on "oncogenes" is not a solid reason for getting an MD - a PhD is for that sort of basic science/translational research. You need to want to be a practicing doctor and see patients (or be a pathologist). If you don't want that, then you shouldn't apply MSTP.

 

[mercaptovizadeh]

So far I have a 3.94 GPA and I'm a double major in Applied Mathematics and Biological Engineering, but I guarantee my it will drop next fall when I take fluid mechanics, thermodynamics, complex analysis, physical chemistry, and neuroscience. I'm gauging my GPA to be around 3.88-3.9 after the fall and maybe around 3.85 when I graduate. If I can turn up the heat, I think I can maybe graduate closer to 3.88 or 3.9

I want to apply to an MD/PHD Program at Harvard or Stanford. I haven't received my MCAT scores yet, but I was pretty confident on it, and all the mock MCAT's/Practice tests I've taken before had me between 32 to 36, and I actually found this MCAT more facile than my old MCAT practices, I'm feeling around 33 to 35.

What are my chances at getting into HMS or SMS for an MD/PHD? I want to get a PhD in Medical Physics (So far my thesis for my senior project that I've been working on has to do with using principles of physics in diagnostic hardware. My applied math major is physics based, and I've taken about 12 hours of physics electives past calculus based physics I and II) and an MD specialization in Chemical Genetics. I want to be a geneticist and plot out mathematical algorithms to sequence pedigrees. I'm stronger in math/logic/computer science than I am at biology, but I've done well in genetics, evolution, a&p, etc. But, I've taken some classes like Chemistry I and II, Calculus III, and Physics II at a community college near the university where I'm now full time, which I'm scared will hurt me for Harvard or Stanford MD/PHD.

Here are some stats:

*White male
*Dad is a Pharmacist, mother is an English teacher, so our pooled family income is ~$130-145k
*Did research for a lot of psychology/neuroscience departments, but as a statistics slave, because I knew multivariate calculus based statistics. Didn't do much neuroscience or psychology
*Did actual research for bioengineering department
*Did some physics/materials science research (mostly programming, but I helped a lot in brainstorming, troubleshooting, and assisting)
*Have a LOR from a PhD Harvard graduate Physics professor, a Math PhD professor from University of Wisconsin-Madison, and a PhD from University of Michigan Organic Chemist.
*In some research program at my school where we do mathematical modeling on biological systems, got a scholarship for it. One of 8 individuals. One of 2 math majors.
*Tutored math/chemistry/physics for 6 years so far in elementary, high school, and collegiate settings.
*Organizer of a program/tutoring alliance where we unite Muslims at mosques/Jews from synagogues/Christians from a Baptist church in town to sit together and share/learn science.
*Intern at Lockheed Martin for biomedical engineering (I helped program some of the machines for the HULC suit to help soldiers carry heavier loads without injury, shadowed some mechanical/biomedical engineers)
*Did research/interned at the electrical engineering department for medical nanotechnology hardware
*Worked as a pharmacy technician for 3 years.

Your chances are slim, for a variety of reasons I don't have time to articulate right now. The people who get admitted to those programs are the cream of the crop. They have 3.9-4.0 GPAs from Ivies, UChicago, MIT, CalTech and many other top schools. They have MCAT scores that are 38+ or more likely 40+. They've done research with Nobel laureates, and if not with them, with people who regularly publish in Nature, Science, PNAS, Cell, etc. Sometimes they even have a paper or two on which they are a co-author from these labs/programs. There's a lot of inbreeding as well - Harvard MD/PhD loves Harvard, Yale, Stanford, etc. undergraduates, no matter if the performance of a particular student from those institutions was no better - or even worse - than from a student who went to, say, UNC Chapel Hill or NYU - which are excellent schools but less prestigious.

Your touchy-feely non-research ECs are of limited value for MD/PhDs. The schools your profs went to are irrelevant...they are not an "in" to any program. What matters is how well known your letter writers are to someone on the committee as well as how effusively they write about you. Your demographics and parent professions don't help you (not that they hurt you). Your research does not appear to be coherent and substantial. It sounds like several small projects. It's OK to have these, but you need at least one substantial likely multiple-year research experience.

I don't mean to discourage, and some things can always be changed. You can't change your UG or demographics, but you can retake your MCAT and do better, you can take off 2-3 years to do full time research, hopefully in a reputable lab on a coherent project on which you speak intelligently and which will give you valuable LORs. Even then, getting into Harvard or Stanford MD/PhD will still be very unlikely, but you'd have a good shot at a 10-30-ranked program, I would think.

 

[mercaptovizadeh]

Also, if you're hung up on prestige, it would be MUCH easier to get into Harvard or Stanford graduate school for biology (but by no means trivial, you still have to be really good) than it is to get into the medical school, much less the MSTPs.

 

[postalkwk]

Your touchy-feely non-research ECs are of limited value for MD/PhDs.

I'm gonna have to disagree with this from my personal experience. About 50-75% of my non closed file interviewers at MD/PhDs wanted to spend significant amount of time talking about 2 of my pretty unique ECs that I think very few others have. In particular they seemed loved when I talked about how I think the skills I've learned through acting will be useful in interacting with patients as a physician

Obviously high stats, great rec letters, and in depth research experience are the most important. But being unique and being able to show you're passionate definitely are as well. My GPA is pretty low for 2 of the schools i've been interviewed and accepted at - in fact it's quite low for MSTP in general- and while i know I had great research and great letters, I got the feeling that the uncommon but unique ECs hooked some adcoms and interview faculty. I just think there is a perception that anything that isn't science or medicine related as an EC for MD/PhD is irrelevant to admissions - and I think that this is just not the case.

That being said, I don't think OPs ECs are particularly unique and will matter that much with the exception of maybe the cross-religion thing.

 

[Neuronix]

The MD/PhD game works this way: Generally, applicants apply to 12 programs +/- 4. You hope to get accepted to 1 of them. Even very strong applicants may not get multiple acceptances.

I agree with others that it's hard to evaluate your research experience. It's desirable to have several years of experience (2+), preferably independent, preferably longitudinal (i.e. 1+ years in a single lab). MCAT is of course very important.

If you can find ~10 programs that would be suitable for you, your MCAT score is 34+, and your research fits my above guidelines, I'd recommend you apply MD/PhD. The "backup" for the MD/PhD pathway is MD-only. PhD programs have a completely different timeline, which makes it very difficult to apply to both in the same year.

My advice to you would be to decide whether you want MD/PhD or PhD alone. The training and lifestyles are very different. Then plan accordingly.

 

[red doctober]

I'm also confused on why only Harvard/Stanford. There are other great medical physics programs elsewhere...

 

[uniqenam]

Having your sights set on two programs is really risky and ridiculous for MD, and then even more so for MSTP. I got an interview at UCSF, but was rejected from some way less prestigious programs pre interview. Banking everything on 2 schools is very likely to lead to disappointment. Ultimately, if you want to do MD-PhD, you need to apply to way more than 2 programs if you want a good shot at acceptance. Also - wanting to work on "oncogenes" is not a solid reason for getting an MD - a PhD is for that sort of basic science/translational research. You need to want to be a practicing doctor and see patients (or be a pathologist). If you don't want that, then you shouldn't apply MSTP.

I want to echo this about how much of a crap-shoot (from the applicant's end) the process is; there were certain schools where I felt I was a good fit and was sure to get an interview where I didn't, where my stats etc said I definitely should have; I think my app was 2/3 "excellent" (with the third very close to excellent) on Neuronix's list with a first-author pub, and even with that I only interviewed at 2 institutions that would be considered by most to be "elite" (or at least upper-echelon MSTP), even though I applied to basically all the top schools. I think it would be more understandable if you were only focusing on two non-MSTPs in your local area, but there's no way that you should only apply to two of the most competitive.

 

[Fencer]

... I think my app was 2/3 "excellent"...

Your application was outstanding for ANY MSTP. The fact is that every program has a list of priorities and there are many more qualified applicants than MD/PhD positions.

To the OP, your stats are at "median" of the MD/PhD matriculants in the nation, which includes MSTP and non-MSTP MD/PhD programs. If you are accurate with your description and apply broadly as Neuronix indicates, you have about a 50% chance of been accepted into a MD/PhD program, and probably a 2% for those 4 that you indicated.

 

[gbwillner]

People are way too negative about the OP. I think mostly because they are put off by the perceived arrogance of only applying to 2 programs, and ones that already have a snobby/elitist reputation.

To OP: You are a good candidate on paper. You have a good GPA, probably good research (but understandably many of us non-engineers know little about how research works in that field), and may (or may not) have a great MCAT score.

The problems for you is that you have to understand that chance and luck play very heavy hands in the admissions process. Not only that- much of it is totally subjective. You may seem like an outstanding, motivated young man by interviewer 1 at Harvard, but interviewer 2 thinks you are boorish, poorly bred and ill-manner twit (who probably went to Yale or something). If that happens (and it will) your chances are shot, and it may be totally independent of who you are and what your experiences are. Don't forget that there are like 200 applicants just as good as you. Why will you get in and not them??? And only like 8-12 people will get into either of those 2 programs.

In reality though, you need to grow up a bit. Expand your horizons. Those may not even be the best programs for you. Did you know UCLA's MSTP program can be combined with CalTech? Or Baylor with Rice Engineering? With few exceptions, even the very top applicants should apply to 10-20 programs if they want to get in to a top program.

This all hinges on your ability to interview well, and if you are the kind of person who can only be happy at Harvard... well, you may not get in anywhere anyway.

 

[debateg]

No matter if you go the MD route, the MD/PhD route, or the PhD alone route, you have to come to the often frustrating conclusion that despite what your professors may tell you, you are not special as an applicant and you cannot be choosy about where you go for PhD, medical school, residency, post-doc, fellowship, and job. As others have pointed out, the admissions process is highly competitive and also seemingly random. I know people who received offers from Harvard but got turned down from schools widely viewed as "lesser" tier for reasons no one understands. The reality is that you need to get trained where you will get good training (which can happen at most reputable MD/PhD programs) and where you will be happy in the rest of your life. A big name is nice, but I can tell you that I know a few people who went to some big name MD/PhD programs and were miserable due to the academic culture or lack of support by the administration. Apply broadly and see where the cards fall. If you have the money and time, send your application to Harvard and Stanford, but don't be disappointed if they turn you down.

 

[HSIN43]

Hello I am a freshman at Saint Peters University and I recently attended one of the APSA meeting at Mount Sinai. I have done research in the past for two years at Rutgers University. One year working on cytochrome P450 and its inhibitors. The other year was working on MCF-7 cells and their dormancy. My goal is to get into any M.D PhD program because getting into that alone is just amazing. My reach though is for Harvard's MD PhD program. At the meeting a head person of the M.D Phd program recommended that I should transfer schools. I am afraid that I will excel at the university I am currently attending ,but because it is not known compared to many other Ivy's I will not get accepted to the M.D Phd program. I was thinking to transfer to Rutgers N.B or Rutgers Newark due to the fact that it is in state. What do you guys recommend should I apply to a different university or stay and excel ?

 

[HSIN43]

Hello I am a freshman at Saint Peters University and I recently attended one of the APSA meeting at Mount Sinai. I have done research in the past for two years at Rutgers University. One year working on cytochrome P450 and its inhibitors. The other year was working on MCF-7 cells and their dormancy. My goal is to get into any M.D PhD program because getting into that alone is just amazing. My reach though is for the Harvard MD PhD program. At the meeting a head person of the M.D Phd program recommended that I should transfer schools. I am afraid that I will excel at the university I am currently attending ,but because it is not known compared to many other Ivy's I will not get accepted to the M.D Phd program. I was thinking to transfer to Rutgers N.B or Rutgers Newark due to the fact that it is in state. What do you guys recommend should I apply to a different university or stay and excel ?

 

[ratherbefishing]

For what it's worth, I know people who got into some top MSTPs with numbers or attributes that are below what are cited here as "must haves". Granted, they made up for it in other areas but following some of the advice on here they never would have applied. It's a student doctor phenomenon to misinterpret averages for a program as cutoffs.