Starting Salary for DPT new-grads

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Yeah no kidding. Let's all move to Las Vegas! No state income tax either!
 
Some of you may be counting on the interest on your student loans to lighten your tax burden, once you graduate. Please note that currently (5/2015) the IRS only allows a maximum deduction of $2.5K/yr for student loan interest. IMO, that is a relatively small deduction, although every little bit helps.

If you plan to buy a home, the yearly limit on mortgage interest deduction is much, much higher: $1M/yr.
 
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Some of you may be counting on the interest on your student loans to lighten your tax burden, once you graduate. Please note that currently (5/2015) the IRS only allows a maximum deduction of $2.5K/yr for student loan interest. IMO, that is a relatively small deduction, although every little bit helps.

If you plan to buy a home, the yearly limit on mortgage interest deduction is much, much higher: $1M/yr.
Also, If you make more than like 80k, you can't claim it.
 
Also, If you make more than like 80k, you can't claim it.

Thanks for pointing this out. I just wanted to point out that the $80k limit on eligibility for this deduction is your AGI, so your gross income could be higher than $80k and you'd still be eligible. And for those who are married filing jointly the AGI can be up to $160k before you are no longer eligible for the deduction. So most new PT grads should be eligible for some portion of the deduction, unless they are single and working a lot of hours/particularly high earning. Note that between $65k and $80k for single and between $130k and $160k for married filing jointly, the maximum deduction you can take is phased down from $2500 slowly to $0 once you reach the cap. So most married PTs with spouses that don't generate huge incomes should be eligible for most if not all of the $2500 deduction (which as jblil has stated is a relatively small deduction relative to a $100k+ two-spouse income, but every little bit helps). Single PTs may be hit or miss as to how much they are eligible to deduct.

Thanks @jblil and @NewDPT31 for prompting me to get informed on this subject.
 
Thanks for pointing this out. I just wanted to point out that the $80k limit on eligibility for this deduction is your AGI, so your gross income could be higher than $80k and you'd still be eligible. And for those who are married filing jointly the AGI can be up to $160k before you are no longer eligible for the deduction. So most new PT grads should be eligible for some portion of the deduction, unless they are single and working a lot of hours/particularly high earning. Note that between $65k and $80k for single and between $130k and $160k for married filing jointly, the maximum deduction you can take is phased down from $2500 slowly to $0 once you reach the cap. So most married PTs with spouses that don't generate huge incomes should be eligible for most if not all of the $2500 deduction (which as jblil has stated is a relatively small deduction relative to a $100k+ two-spouse income, but every little bit helps). Single PTs may be hit or miss as to how much they are eligible to deduct.

Thanks @jblil and @NewDPT31 for prompting me to get informed on this subject.
Excuse me for being ignorant, but how would that affect say a travel PT? There's a video on SDN somewhere of a Travel PT giving an explanation of everything and it coming out to like $80-95K total income and only ~$54K Taxable. How would that go into affect with the $80K Limit.
 
Some of you may be counting on the interest on your student loans to lighten your tax burden, once you graduate. Please note that currently (5/2015) the IRS only allows a maximum deduction of $2.5K/yr for student loan interest. IMO, that is a relatively small deduction, although every little bit helps.

If you plan to buy a home, the yearly limit on mortgage interest deduction is much, much higher: $1M/yr.
Not to mention $2500/year for "depreciation"!
 
Just gonna chuck this out there.......

Student debt has become one of the biggest national platforms for this upcoming election. Make sure to get to the polls. Elizabeth Warren (not running) has been going off on this as well as Sanders and even Clinton has some Warrenesque student debt solutions of her own.

STAY ON TOP OF IT. THIS ELECTION CAN HELP DEBT:INCOME!!!


^This message not approved for any particular candidate. ;)
 
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I updated the charts to summarize 2015 vs. 2014 new-grads' starting salaries:
https://dptfinances.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/dpt-new-grads-salary-survey-sept-2015.pdf

Pay for hospital and OP clinic seems to continue to cluster around $60K-$65K.
SNF pay is higher, at $70K-$75K.

If you graduated recently, please spend 15 seconds to take the survey (link is on p. 1 of this thread), it will help those who are still in school or are contemplating entering this profession.
 
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Could th
Interesting reading, from a recent Pharmacy grad:
http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/finance/1444775/?start=0
TL; DR: $480K student loan debt, $60K income.

I have a nagging feeling that's where the PT field is eventually headed. Be mindful of how much you borrow, and be willing to relocate for work.

Does Pharm have the same sort of "pluggability" as PT? i.e. does school rank not matter because the education and national board exam is all standardized?

In these situations, how can you separate yourself from the massive numbers of other graduates if everything is viewed as standardized and equal? How can you get ahead to give yourself better options down the road for employment?
 
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Interesting reading, from a recent Pharmacy grad:
http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/finance/1444775/?start=0
TL; DR: $480K student loan debt, $60K income.

I have a nagging feeling that's where the PT field is eventually headed. Be mindful of how much you borrow, and be willing to relocate for work.

That's just irresponsible on that person's part for making awful life decisions. I'm sorry but that is completely their fault.

Fed loans + usnews + awful accreditation + lack of economic regulation + bad life decision= The biggest credit card company you can imagine
 
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I just noticed an interesting discussion on the DPT Facebook group about PTs' starting salaries:
www.facebook.com/groups/370244506354966/permalink/984572254922185/

I am astounded at the folks who want more money "because I have a doctorate..."

I too was unimpressed with the number of those "I have a doctorate so 100k" responses. Yes, we have one of the worst paid doctorates, but if you didn't do the math prior to starting school, that's on you. I can probably speak for the profession that we are all frustrated with relatively low pay due to low reimbursement. But that is just it- our energy needs to go towards lobbying and not wishful thinking.
 
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Hey guys,

I wanted to place this here for anyone getting close to graduating since now is the time to start applying. I was really impressed by some of these job postings in this specific search. Pay, what they focus on, intervention focus, how receptive they are to new grads.

http://www.careerbuilder.com/jobs/keyword/physical-therapist
 
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There was a discussion about South College's for-profit DPT program earlier in this thread. You can find one update here (scroll to post # 42, towards the end of the thread):
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...e-a-100k-tuition-school-was-worth-it.1142989/

A couple of other data points:
- Reviews of South College's PA & PTA programs; read all 5 pages and form your own opinion. I found it interesting that some students are talking of a class-action lawsuit.
http://www.topix.com/forum/knoxville/TFVUN1L162U04B23I

- The PTA program at SC takes folks with a 2.5 GPA. Look under the section titled "Admission".
http://physical-therapy-schools.startclass.com/l/356/South-College

Edit: the last link above is for the PTA program (thanks to steveyk for the correction)
 
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There was a discussion about South College's for-profit DPT program earlier in this thread. You can find one update here (scroll to post # 42, towards the end of the thread):
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...e-a-100k-tuition-school-was-worth-it.1142989/

A couple of other data points:
- Reviews of South College's PA & PTA programs; read all 5 pages and form your own opinion. I found it interesting that some students are talking of a class-action lawsuit.
http://www.topix.com/forum/knoxville/TFVUN1L162U04B23I

- The DPT program at SC takes folks with a 2.5 GPA??? Look under the section titled "Admission".
http://physical-therapy-schools.startclass.com/l/356/South-College
If true, this school is a joke.
The last link is referring to the PTA program. I have no affiliation with South. Just wanted to clarify.
 
Warning – long post.

I took and passed the NPTE in Jan 2016, and am planning to accept a position with a hospital system.
FWIW, and in the hope that it’ll be useful to others, here’s my experience in studying for the Board and looking for jobs.


Studying for the Board: I started about 1 month prior to the exam date. Daily studying was +/- 3 hours on average. On most weeknights, I’d talk to a classmate for a bit, to BS and compare notes. We used Teamviewer, which allowed us to not only see each other (like the video calls on Skype), but also each other’s computer desktop in case we wanted to look at something together. I used the practice exams from Scorebuilders, PhysEd and PEAT and went through every single question, the ones I missed as well as the ones I got right. I found the discussions with my classmate to be quite useful since we’d often approach a topic in slightly different ways.


Job search: The best situation of course is to get hired by one of our former clinical sites. They know us, we know them, red tape is short-circuited, it’s a win-win. However, none of mine was hiring. May be it’s an early sign of the dreaded supply/demand imbalance? I also decided to avoid private practices for a first job since several folks from the class above mine ended up in “patient mills” and hated them. So I looked up the hospital systems in my state, and applied to most of them.

All applications are done online now, and after you have filled out the info once, applying to other positions with the same employer takes but a couple of clicks. The first week, I applied to 40 positions with 18 different employers, and got calls from 4 for on-site interviews. In week 2, I applied to 7 more positions with 4 other employers. In week 3, I received 4 offers and accepted one, after minimal negotiations. Bottom line: 47 applications sent out, 5 face-to-face interviews (plus 2 declined invitations), 3 “sorry, we’ve chosen someone else”, and 5 job offers (every face-to-face interview I went to, resulted in job offers). I never heard back from the rest of the other applications.

I did not use recruiters, although I got plenty of calls and emails from them.


A few tips for those who are graduating soon:

After you pass the Board, do take time to circle back and thank the folks who wrote your LORs when you applied to PT programs. I stopped by to see all of them and let them know I am now a licensed PT, thanks to their help. Every single one of them seemed to appreciate the personal touch.

If your school holds a healthcare career fair, go to it. Get the names and contact info of the persons manning the booths. Later, as you fill out job applications, use their names in the “referred by” field, and send those folks an email to let them know you have applied. Don’t be shy, they may even get a little financial bonus if you are hired.

Create a text document with all of your personal info (such as schools, years of attendance, graduation dates), employment info (previous employers’ addresses, supervisors, dates worked, salaries), references, etc. You will have to enter this stuff repeatedly into online applications, and having everything in one spot will save you time since all you have to do is copy-and-paste.

By the same token, create a master resume that you can tweak slightly, depending on the setting you’re applying to. For ex., if you’re going for an inpatient acute position, you can give a bit more details about your inpatient rotation(s). Keep track of which version you sent where.

Create a dashboard to log which employers you are targeting, when you applied, the contact info of the HR person, the requisition number of the position, the status of your application, and other details you want to track. Update it daily, and you’ll always have a bird’s eye view of your job search. It will come in handy if you need to stall an offer, or nudge an employer to make a decision because you have a pending offer elsewhere. I used an Excel table for this.

Every interview I went to included multiple behavioral questions, such as “Tell me of a time when…”. If you do not have a lot of work/life experience that will allow you to answer such questions on the fly, you should prepare for them. Think about situations encountered during your clinicals, and be concise when you answer. If you tend to ramble, follow the PAR format (problem-action-result) to structure your reply. I always ended my answers with something like “what that situation taught me was…”, to show that it was a learning experience. Also, have an elevator-pitch ready in your figurative back pocket because some interviewers will start out with “Tell me about yourself.”

Being able to speak other languages, esp. Spanish, is a big plus. So if you have time, study some Spanish, and that way you can claim familiarity with the language when you fill out the applications. I can speak a few other languages in addition to English, and have no doubt that it helped get my resume noticed.

IMO the interviews are more about “fit” and personality than skills. If you’ve graduated from an accredited school and passed the Board (well, may be South College is an exception…), you can handle an entry-level position. I think the interviewer is more concerned with “will this person integrate well into my current operation, will s/he get along with my present staff?” than with your skills. So be yourself during the interview and assess the environment critically since you may end up working in it. Interviews are a 2-way street.

Use Glassdoor.com and other review sites to check out potential employers. Just be aware that some of the posts may be written by HR, esp. if they sound too good to be true (e.g., excellent place to work, good pay, generous benefits, wonderful management, etc). If you believe such posts, I’d like to introduce you to a still-secret associate of Bernie Madoff who is just as good in investing as Bernie himself.

After the interview, it’s good form to send a thank-you email. While it won’t increase your odds of being hired, it does show professionalism. I send mine on the same day -sometimes when still in the parking lot-, and they are very short: “Thank you for your time. I enjoyed talking to you about [insert a topic you discussed during the interview]. Regards.”

Dressing for interviews: Always dress one notch more formally than the folks who are interviewing you. Since most rehab managers/directors are business casual, I go in wearing a sports coat. I assume a simple but elegant dress would work well if you’re female, but would love to hear from the ladies themselves on this one.


I hope the above info will be useful as you wrap up your degree and start looking for jobs. As for me, I am ready for this next adventure – I told an old friend yesterday that a goniometer is a lot easier to carry than the Vz58 I lugged around, in a previous life and in a galaxy far, far away.
 
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My favorite are therapists who complain about therapy companies being too focused on the bottom line but then being the first ones out the door if they dont get the raise they want. They think they shouldnt have any productivity standard and should be able to do as much or little treatment as they want but get paid 90,000/year. When it comes to the companies bottom line they are all high and mighty and critical but when it comes to their personal bottom line they sing a different tune.

Obviously there are bad companies out there who do unethical things but I have seen therapists complain about reasonable expectations and good companies and think they should be able to be 50% productive but get paid top dollar.
 
I was browsing through the APTA website out of sheer boredom, and found an article (dated 5/27/2016) where APTA runs different scenarios to divine the job market for PTs in 2025:
http://www.apta.org/PTinMotion/News/2016/5/27/PTWorkforceProjections/
Cliff notes version: depending on several assumptions, there could be a shortage of 18,350 PTs by 2025, or there could be a surplus of 21,494 PTs (I love it when they are that specific - exactly 21,494).

IMO, there are so many "moving parts" in the assumptions that these forecasts are essentially meaningless. But I found it interesting that APTA is conceding that, under some scenarios, there could be a surplus.
 
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But I found it interesting that APTA is conceding that, under some scenarios, there could be a surplus.

I did as well. First time that I've actually seen that in an APTA publication. I think the reality on a national scale will probably fall somewhere roughly in the middle of the two ends of the spectrum that they've reported. There will likely always be some areas where PTs can't find any jobs that aren't part-time or PRN and some other areas where hiring managers can't keep their therapy departments staffed to save their lives. If you peruse a decent amount of the PT workforce research that's been done over the last 5-10 years you will see that it really is ALL OVER the map...if you could theoretically do a systematic review of all of it the conclusion would be that there is literally no consensus whatsoever. Some say there will be a giant, devastating surplus, some say there will be a massive, devastating shortage. And everyone else says something in between.

Though, if history teaches any lessons and we look at other professions where dinky little private professional schools have popped up all over the map in an attempt to make a buck (as PT has been doing and will continue doing), chances are that nationally there will eventually be a slight surplus, and whether the job market is good to you will be very location and specialty dependent.
 
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Curious if the accrediting agencies have power to limit the seats offered for a program? I go to a school that has pt/ot and the incoming classes are way bigger than mine.
 
Curious if the accrediting agencies have power to limit the seats offered for a program? I go to a school that has pt/ot and the incoming classes are way bigger than mine.

Of course not. South college in Knoxville is processing 100+ people per trimester and raking in the dough.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app
 
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Curious if the accrediting agencies have power to limit the seats offered for a program? I go to a school that has pt/ot and the incoming classes are way bigger than mine.

When I interviewed/attended Angelo State, I was told that it is controlled and they had to get approval to increase their class size.
 
If you want to increase your class size beyond a certain percentage above what you were previously accredited at you have to apply and get approved for it.

Sent from my SM-N910V using SDN mobile
 
My favorite are therapists who complain about therapy companies being too focused on the bottom line but then being the first ones out the door if they dont get the raise they want. They think they shouldnt have any productivity standard and should be able to do as much or little treatment as they want but get paid 90,000/year. When it comes to the companies bottom line they are all high and mighty and critical but when it comes to their personal bottom line they sing a different tune.

Obviously there are bad companies out there who do unethical things but I have seen therapists complain about reasonable expectations and good companies and think they should be able to be 50% productive but get paid top dollar.

I'm an OT (soon enough, currently in my last level II), and I can tell you that my current hospital has a 96% productivity rate, and the clinicians here have anxiety whenever a patient cancels an appt due to what effect it will have on their productivity rate. One clinician told me that she got "written up" for not being productive enough. Can I know how we are responsible for people cancelling on us? The bottom dollar matters: which is why the APTA and AOTA needs to lobby hardcore to get the therapy cap removed, and to maintain or increase our reimbursement rates. If we don't bring in the bacon they won't pay us our share. I don't have to state that I will do whatever my patients need, period. I will work hard for them, billable or not. Ethical practice and patient care is what matters, not just my income.

As an OT I feel like we have major deficits in our field; we need to start doing some lower body work, I see PTs doing almost everything in our field of practice. I'm a bit nervous about the direction in which our reimbursement, salary, tuition costs etc are moving. I am not sure I could, in good conscience, recommend that someone become an OT if the person also has an interest in other fields like medicine, NP/PA etc. The fact that documentation happens during the lunch hour, and after work, all unpaid is really troubling to me. It looks like a class action lawsuit is brewing for hourly employees who are basically forced to do this. Maybe we need a rehab union?
My debt is huge, and my salary isn't going to be huge. I don't think 75k is "a lot" of money when you factor in the amount of debt I have. Physicians make 4 times as much as we do and more, and yes I understand they did more schooling, have more responsibilities, and have more debt load. Trust me, I'd take on more debt and love to make 400k like my MD uncle does.

All that whining aside I do not regret my decision to become an OT, and I view PTs as our allies in treating patients. In fact, I honestly think we should have a physiotherapy degree and move away from the PT/OT system we have in the US.
 
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I'm an OT (soon enough, currently in my last level II), and I can tell you that my current hospital has a 96% productivity rate, and the clinicians here have anxiety whenever a patient cancels an appt due to what effect it will have on their productivity rate.

96% productivity rate? That's insane. I feel bad for you, but you definitely need to ask this question before you accept the assignment. I don't take anything above 85%, and preferably 80%. But 96 is just ridiculous. I don't think the therapy cap is the problem, although it needs to be removed. The real solution is choice. Don't take jobs that require 96% productivity. I would quit ASAP.

As an OT I feel like we have major deficits in our field; we need to start doing some lower body work, I see PTs doing almost everything in our field of practice. I'm a bit nervous about the direction in which our reimbursement, salary, tuition costs etc are moving. I am not sure I could, in good conscience, recommend that someone become an OT if the person also has an interest in other fields like medicine, NP/PA etc...In fact, I honestly think we should have a physiotherapy degree and move away from the PT/OT system we have in the US.
.

I think there's still a distinction between PT and OT, but I think a combined degree, like a rehab professional, or doctor of rehab sciences, should be the next step. I see a lot of overlap, and a professional with PT/OT skills would be more marketable and versatile.

The fact that documentation happens during the lunch hour, and after work, all unpaid is really troubling to me. It looks like a class action lawsuit is brewing for hourly employees who are basically forced to do this. Maybe we need a rehab union?

I don't think a union would help. You don't need a union. You can advocate for yourself. In fact, you should leave this job to send a message. There's a lot of unpaid documentation time in this profession, but some places are worse than others. Be sure to ask this question before you take the next job. Most places assume a 10-15% cancellation rate, which gives you time to finish your notes.

My debt is huge, and my salary isn't going to be huge. I don't think 75k is "a lot" of money when you factor in the amount of debt I have. Physicians make 4 times as much as we do and more, and yes I understand they did more schooling, have more responsibilities, and have more debt load. Trust me, I'd take on more debt and love to make 400k like my MD uncle does.

Going into >$100k of debt to get a job that pays $75k before taxes is a poor financial decision, but it's too late now. What you can do is change your job, and it sounds like you are unhappy where you are. Consider travel OT if that's an option. I also recommend looking for an additional source of income. The internet makes that a lot easier.
 
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Warning – long post.

I took and passed the NPTE in Jan 2016, and am planning to accept a position with a hospital system.
FWIW, and in the hope that it’ll be useful to others, here’s my experience in studying for the Board and looking for jobs.


Studying for the Board: I started about 1 month prior to the exam date. Daily studying was +/- 3 hours on average. On most weeknights, I’d talk to a classmate for a bit, to BS and compare notes. We used Teamviewer, which allowed us to not only see each other (like the video calls on Skype), but also each other’s computer desktop in case we wanted to look at something together. I used the practice exams from Scorebuilders, PhysEd and PEAT and went through every single question, the ones I missed as well as the ones I got right. I found the discussions with my classmate to be quite useful since we’d often approach a topic in slightly different ways.


Job search: The best situation of course is to get hired by one of our former clinical sites. They know us, we know them, red tape is short-circuited, it’s a win-win. However, none of mine was hiring. May be it’s an early sign of the dreaded supply/demand imbalance? I also decided to avoid private practices for a first job since several folks from the class above mine ended up in “patient mills” and hated them. So I looked up the hospital systems in my state, and applied to most of them.

All applications are done online now, and after you have filled out the info once, applying to other positions with the same employer takes but a couple of clicks. The first week, I applied to 40 positions with 18 different employers, and got calls from 4 for on-site interviews. In week 2, I applied to 7 more positions with 4 other employers. In week 3, I received 4 offers and accepted one, after minimal negotiations. Bottom line: 47 applications sent out, 5 face-to-face interviews (plus 2 declined invitations), 3 “sorry, we’ve chosen someone else”, and 5 job offers (every face-to-face interview I went to, resulted in job offers). I never heard back from the rest of the other applications.

I did not use recruiters, although I got plenty of calls and emails from them.


A few tips for those who are graduating soon:

After you pass the Board, do take time to circle back and thank the folks who wrote your LORs when you applied to PT programs. I stopped by to see all of them and let them know I am now a licensed PT, thanks to their help. Every single one of them seemed to appreciate the personal touch.

If your school holds a healthcare career fair, go to it. Get the names and contact info of the persons manning the booths. Later, as you fill out job applications, use their names in the “referred by” field, and send those folks an email to let them know you have applied. Don’t be shy, they may even get a little financial bonus if you are hired.

Create a text document with all of your personal info (such as schools, years of attendance, graduation dates), employment info (previous employers’ addresses, supervisors, dates worked, salaries), references, etc. You will have to enter this stuff repeatedly into online applications, and having everything in one spot will save you time since all you have to do is copy-and-paste.

By the same token, create a master resume that you can tweak slightly, depending on the setting you’re applying to. For ex., if you’re going for an inpatient acute position, you can give a bit more details about your inpatient rotation(s). Keep track of which version you sent where.

Create a dashboard to log which employers you are targeting, when you applied, the contact info of the HR person, the requisition number of the position, the status of your application, and other details you want to track. Update it daily, and you’ll always have a bird’s eye view of your job search. It will come in handy if you need to stall an offer, or nudge an employer to make a decision because you have a pending offer elsewhere. I used an Excel table for this.

Every interview I went to included multiple behavioral questions, such as “Tell me of a time when…”. If you do not have a lot of work/life experience that will allow you to answer such questions on the fly, you should prepare for them. Think about situations encountered during your clinicals, and be concise when you answer. If you tend to ramble, follow the PAR format (problem-action-result) to structure your reply. I always ended my answers with something like “what that situation taught me was…”, to show that it was a learning experience. Also, have an elevator-pitch ready in your figurative back pocket because some interviewers will start out with “Tell me about yourself.”

Being able to speak other languages, esp. Spanish, is a big plus. So if you have time, study some Spanish, and that way you can claim familiarity with the language when you fill out the applications. I can speak a few other languages in addition to English, and have no doubt that it helped get my resume noticed.

IMO the interviews are more about “fit” and personality than skills. If you’ve graduated from an accredited school and passed the Board (well, may be South College is an exception…), you can handle an entry-level position. I think the interviewer is more concerned with “will this person integrate well into my current operation, will s/he get along with my present staff?” than with your skills. So be yourself during the interview and assess the environment critically since you may end up working in it. Interviews are a 2-way street.

Use Glassdoor.com and other review sites to check out potential employers. Just be aware that some of the posts may be written by HR, esp. if they sound too good to be true (e.g., excellent place to work, good pay, generous benefits, wonderful management, etc). If you believe such posts, I’d like to introduce you to a still-secret associate of Bernie Madoff who is just as good in investing as Bernie himself.

After the interview, it’s good form to send a thank-you email. While it won’t increase your odds of being hired, it does show professionalism. I send mine on the same day -sometimes when still in the parking lot-, and they are very short: “Thank you for your time. I enjoyed talking to you about [insert a topic you discussed during the interview]. Regards.”

Dressing for interviews: Always dress one notch more formally than the folks who are interviewing you. Since most rehab managers/directors are business casual, I go in wearing a sports coat. I assume a simple but elegant dress would work well if you’re female, but would love to hear from the ladies themselves on this one.


I hope the above info will be useful as you wrap up your degree and start looking for jobs. As for me, I am ready for this next adventure – I told an old friend yesterday that a goniometer is a lot easier to carry than the Vz58 I lugged around, in a previous life and in a galaxy far, far away.

Great post. As one of those who interviewing people for jobs, you were spot on regarding the job search/interview part of your post. Someone like you will do fine at anything you apply yourself to.
 
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96% productivity rate? That's insane. I feel bad for you, but you definitely need to ask this question before you accept the assignment. I don't take anything above 85%, and preferably 80%. But 96 is just ridiculous. I don't think the therapy cap is the problem, although it needs to be removed. The real solution is choice. Don't take jobs that require 96% productivity. I would quit ASAP

Im a level II fieldwork student at a major national research hospital. I think their productivity rate is actually 93% to be exact. I could never work there.
I think that making less than 75k is *barely* middle class these days, but you can make OT/PT work for you if you do things the right way.
I think productivity goals should be illegal. How am I responsible for the patients I am handed? I can't make my patients come to therapy.
I also think it's not right that many many clinicians document after work for free, and through their lunch hour for free. Free labor is slavery. That's not right.
 
Not having productivity standards is impossible if for profit or non profits want to remain in business. 96 is very high, I agree with that. I work with people who bitch about productivity and then never do anything to try to improve it. They don't remove discharged patients to pad their schedules to make themselves look busy, they don't call patients after the cancel to try to get them to reschedule, they don't ask for initial evaluations when there are open spots.

Also once you are in the clinic you can get good at documenting while continuing to provide excellent care without staying all day and night. Yes you have to work through lunches but many professions that pay worse have longer hours.

Instead of complaining of things you can't change just do your best to try and show your superiors you are making an effort without making yourself crazy.




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Not having productivity standards is impossible if for profit or non profits want to remain in business. 96 is very high, I agree with that. I work with people who bitch about productivity and then never do anything to try to improve it. They don't remove discharged patients to pad their schedules to make themselves look busy, they don't call patients after the cancel to try to get them to reschedule, they don't ask for initial evaluations when there are open spots.

Also once you are in the clinic you can get good at documenting while continuing to provide excellent care without staying all day and night. Yes you have to work through lunches but many professions that pay worse have longer hours.

Instead of complaining of things you can't change just do your best to try and show your superiors you are making an effort without making yourself crazy.

I agree with largely everything you wrote. This is the therapy world we have inherited. We can in fact change it if we had a good lobbying organization (hint: doctors do.)
I'm curious - when we move to a doctorate getting an OT degree is going to be a really tough sell. GPA requirements that are about the same as Med school if not higher, with a similar debt load, and we make about 1/5th-1/4th the amount a doctor does.

I find it sad that our field is going to end up very difficult for a person of limited means to attain. I don't want anyone to be offended by my view, I mean this earnestly, I'm concerned about the direction of our field with productivity standards, and now a doctorate. We're already a 95%+ white field. We're 95% female. Will we also soon be 90% rich? PTs have adjusted to it, I'm not sure why. I feel our career is going to slip from one which makes sense to one a rich white married woman does PRN for "fun, on the side".
 
I agree whole heartedly with your comment.


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I agree with largely everything you wrote. This is the therapy world we have inherited. We can in fact change it if we had a good lobbying organization (hint: doctors do.)
I'm curious - when we move to a doctorate getting an OT degree is going to be a really tough sell. GPA requirements that are about the same as Med school if not higher, with a similar debt load, and we make about 1/5th-1/4th the amount a doctor does.

I find it sad that our field is going to end up very difficult for a person of limited means to attain. I don't want anyone to be offended by my view, I mean this earnestly, I'm concerned about the direction of our field with productivity standards, and now a doctorate. We're already a 95%+ white field. We're 95% female. Will we also soon be 90% rich? PTs have adjusted to it, I'm not sure why. I feel our career is going to slip from one which makes sense to one a rich white married woman does PRN for "fun, on the side".
Fascinating thought. I've been pondering your comment all day. I thought through my PT class and realized that I can comfortably say most people in my class are already married/engaged to a spouse who has higher income potential. There are some students who will be the primary earners in their family, but definitely the minority.
 
I used to be in that scenario (wife primary earner) but then she switched jobs and makes less than myself now. You make it work- most important thing is to choose a field that will make you happy. Both of us had very high paying jobs in the past that made us miserable- neither of us have looked back. Those fat pay checks were nice but we live comfortably within our means. Living within your means is the most important thing.


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I used to be in that scenario (wife primary earner) but then she switched jobs and makes less than myself now. You make it work- most important thing is to choose a field that will make you happy. Both of us had very high paying jobs in the past that made us miserable- neither of us have looked back. Those fat pay checks were nice but we live comfortably within our means. Living within your means is the most important thing.


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I think our field will be a far harder sell if you gotta make the pitch of "you'll make it work". A lot of people are rightly going to ask- why should I get a degree which has almost as much debt as Med School and doesn't even earn a fraction of a doctor's salary? Think of all those years you spend to get a DOCTORATE in OT - to make pretty much the same as an RN who went to a community college and has nearly no debt.

As the previous poster said - most in her class are not primary earners for the family. OT as a "mom works part time" degree is kinda sad if you ask me. I duno - I would probably advise someone who is weighing OT vs NP/PA to consider the other routes if they aren't set on our field.
 
Don't think OT or PT need to be "sold". There are way more applicants than spots. People should choose something that makes them happy and financially secure (whatever that means to them). If they want to make money than go into finance. Don't need 2-3 years of graduate school.


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There are some students who will be the primary earners in their family, but definitely the minority.

This probably varies widely program to program. I doubt if >50% of people in my class will be making less than their spouse/significant others after graduation. Hard to say for sure I guess.
 
This probably varies widely program to program. I doubt if >50% of people in my class will be making less than their spouse/significant others after graduation. Hard to say for sure I guess.

Both OT and PT are 90%+ female, 90% + white, and new classes are increasingly from upper-class backgrounds. Incoming students hail from LESS diverse racial and socio-economic backgrounds than nearly any other field in healthcare. I happen to think this is a problem. I think the move towards an OTD will only further disenfranchise students who would otherwise consider our fields; not to mention we have ZERO added benefit in terms of salary from that "doctorate" degree.

As for the last commenter saying students can opt to go into finance? Why bother? Make a better bet, still help others, and go and become an NP or PA? That's not a "doctorate" degree and makes well above PT/OT salary. What about a doctorate in pharmacy? Certainly a better bet salary wise. I'm not counting on a breadwinner to make the money, as I do this job PRN so I can take care of my kids.
 
Both OT and PT are 90%+ female, 90% + white, and new classes are increasingly from upper-class backgrounds. Incoming students hail from LESS diverse racial and socio-economic backgrounds than nearly any other field in healthcare.

Have you seen stats showing this, or is this from your personal experience? I'm curious about diversity in the field and would love to see some hard numbers, if they exist.
 
Have you seen stats showing this, or is this from your personal experience? I'm curious about diversity in the field and would love to see some hard numbers, if they exist.

Yes I did see stats, from the AOTA. As for PT programs - I haven't seen data it's anecdotal.
 
....so PTs are all rich white women? How could anyone possibly believe this. There are more women then men, but saying it's all rich white women is ridiculous.
 
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Yes I did see stats, from the AOTA. As for PT programs - I haven't seen data it's anecdotal.

Not trying to discredit you or anything but I dont believe stats like that with information to back it up. If you could could link it something that would be great because I am genuinely interested
 
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