We had a visit from a guy today who claimed to be from the state board. He said that a patient filed a complaint against us for not counseling him last week thursday. He gave way too much details like describing techs hair color and items they were wearing. That made my pharmacy manager suspicious so she went and reviewed the video and he was the same guy who picked up the rx he claimed to receive a complaint about. Is this legal ? Can a state board investigator disguise as a patient.?
State Board investigation.
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Or maybe the patient is foolishly claiming to be from the state board? That could turn out very poorly for him, as doubtless your state has laws against claiming to be a pharmacist, which presumably your state board members are....
In the worst case scenario... the guy IS from the state board and he happened to also be your patient and didn't like the service he received. Although he should abstain from decision making in that scenario, having a complaint come from someone known to the board as a colleague might not go well for you.
Good luck!
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If it is a member of the state board, they should have an id or something like that. Normally, they will send you a formal complaint letter before getting your statement. This doesn't sound right. I would contact the state board directly and ask them. If there is an active complaint, they should be able to give you the name of the primary investigator. If there is an investigation about a pharmacist/pharmacy that a state board member has a direct relationship, they are expected to abstain from it.
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Please keep us informed how this turns out. My money would be on a patient trying to con you into thinking that they contacted the board to complain about you. Would be interested in whether they are just trying to scare you or whether they intend some other mischief. It doesn't sound like the behavior of a legitimate board member.
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This is what you say "I really appreciate you coming out here. Do you have some sort of identification? If not, give me a second while I call the state board of pharmacy to confirm this is legitimate. If they're closed then you'll either have to present an AIW or leave the area until the morning. Sorry for the inconvenience."
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If they are suave enough to pretend to be from the BOP they could always actually complain to the board. So why the con? weird.
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State board investigators do disguise themselves as patients. That's how they test a lot of compounds from retail stores and make sure you're not compounding things you are not allowed too. I've never heard of them doing it to catch someone not counseling because really what pharmacy doesn't offer to counsel?
Yeah...... this whole thing is weird.
He did show us an ID that has state board name and then POLICE ID attached to it.
The patient that he claimed filed the compliant has never been to our store before. He doesn't even live in the same city. He saw a doctor in another city 2hrs away. The doctor wrote two separate prescriptions for him for Bactrim. DS and Pen VK. He filled the Bactrim. at our store and then went to another location 30mins away and filled the Pen VK. He paid cash for both prescriptions so no insurance information to trace who he is. When I called the number on his profile, it went into voice mail and the first name was different from what we have. If he is really a state board investigator disguising as a patient, why not disclosed that to us? Why pretend that a patient of ours filed the compliant? I will call the state board in the morning because all of this makes no sense to me. Then my silly PIC went and reviewed the video and then told the guy everything she saw on the video. Who does that? Someone is investigating a complaint against you and you want to arm them with more ammunition to prosecute you.
The state board is so jobless now that they will send someone out to investigate a compliant in 3 businesses days.
He did show us an ID that has state board name and then POLICE ID attached to it.
The patient that he claimed filed the compliant has never been to our store before. He doesn't even live in the same city. He saw a doctor in another city 2hrs away. The doctor wrote two separate prescriptions for him for Bactrim. DS and Pen VK. He filled the Bactrim. at our store and then went to another location 30mins away and filled the Pen VK. He paid cash for both prescriptions so no insurance information to trace who he is. When I called the number on his profile, it went into voice mail and the first name was different from what we have. If he is really a state board investigator disguising as a patient, why not disclosed that to us? Why pretend that a patient of ours filed the compliant? I will call the state board in the morning because all of this makes no sense to me. Then my silly PIC went and reviewed the video and then told the guy everything she saw on the video. Who does that? Someone is investigating a complaint against you and you want to arm them with more ammunition to prosecute you.
The state board is so jobless now that they will send someone out to investigate a compliant in 3 businesses days.
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Then he is from the state board. It doesn't matter how he approached the situation. They will kick your ass for anything that is not compliant.
They investigate all complaints to my knowledge, as it is their job to protect the public...
From the sound of it, they are running a sting operation travelling to many different pharmacies to see what violations they find. I imagine paying cash was to avoid the BOP committing insurance fraud. I hope your state doesn't have a law requiring patient ID, because it seems like you blew that one too.
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Are there states that require patient ID for non-narc scripts? How awful! What do you do if you are undocumented? Or homeless/disenfranchised? Or just had your wallet stolen.
If they are running a sting, trying to catch pharmacies out, then it sounds like what they found on you is not absolutely damning. You failed to offer counselling... but presumably there is some documentation that accompanies the medication, and the patient could always ask for more info, right? I am way out of my depth here, as neither a pharmacist, nor aware of your state laws... but this seems like a minor infraction, if it is even one at all.
It just seems to me that if this is all your Board has to do, y'all must really be running a tight ship, where ever you are.
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So the Board of Pharmacy guy is also a police officer? The PIC needs to stop talking to this supposed state guy, and let corporate handle it (or follow corporates directions on handling it.) Strange that the board would run an undercover operation to see who is offering counseling (what I've seen done is, the board member just sneaks around the waiting area to see if counseling is being offered to every patient who comes in to pick up a prescription.)
Update.......
So for those that said that it looks like the state is running a sting operation are absolutely right. This is state of Texas. I was appalled this morning when the lady at the state board told me on the phone that the guy was just doing his job. I asked her if it was legal for him to disguise as the patient and she said she would not answer that question. The officer also visited the second location this morning with the same citation. The state board most be broke for them to be staging stuff like this. So if you're in the state of Texas, beware.
There was no need to check patient's ID because he was picking up Bactrim. We are also used to compliance officers hanging around in the waiting area and just observe if counseling is being offered. This is low in my opinion.
So for those that said that it looks like the state is running a sting operation are absolutely right. This is state of Texas. I was appalled this morning when the lady at the state board told me on the phone that the guy was just doing his job. I asked her if it was legal for him to disguise as the patient and she said she would not answer that question. The officer also visited the second location this morning with the same citation. The state board most be broke for them to be staging stuff like this. So if you're in the state of Texas, beware.
There was no need to check patient's ID because he was picking up Bactrim. We are also used to compliance officers hanging around in the waiting area and just observe if counseling is being offered. This is low in my opinion.
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This is not news to me, TSBP is one of the strictest state boards and they will discipline you for any little mistake you make. You can see from the board website there are several disciplinary actions for RPh failure to counsel, among other things.
You are not allowed to "offer" on new prescriptions. This is difficult to pull off so it's up to you whether you'd rather make it through the day and risk being disciplined by the board. My opinion is if the board wants to create mandatory counseling rule, it should also create a rule regarding script volume per pharmacist.
You are not allowed to "offer" on new prescriptions. This is difficult to pull off so it's up to you whether you'd rather make it through the day and risk being disciplined by the board. My opinion is if the board wants to create mandatory counseling rule, it should also create a rule regarding script volume per pharmacist.
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How does mandatory counseling work anyways? If I told someone you have to be counseled they'd look at me like I was crazy.
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Go to the disciplinary actions page, look at Esther H. Cohen RPh and Pill Box Pharmacy and see that the board likes to go undercover. These were legitimately bad pharmacists that deserved to be disciplined... I do think it's messed up to go undercover over counseling requirements when they provide no help for pharmacists to comply.
You counsel until they say they've already been on it, or they don't have time to listen, or anything that counts as a decline. I actually think it's a good idea, just not practical these days when corporate expects pharmacists to do more and more.
I know they do go undercover for independent pharmacies and bursting pill mills because I used to work for an independent pharmacy. I didn't know they will stage stuff like this just for counseling compliance.
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Now you're asking him to break HIPAA even more than he already has! Just hope the Texas BOP isn't reading this
Now you're asking him to break HIPAA even more than he already has! Just hope the Texas BOP isn't reading this
What are you talking about?
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Before selling medication, the seller (tech, clerk, intern, cashier...) is supposed to read the printout (drug monograph, drug receipt....) to find if this script is new or not. If the script is new, it will show NEW on the printout. This is important because I heard state board inspector stopped patient who did not receive counseling to check the printout to find out if this script is new or not.
If script is new, seller (tech, clerk, intern, cashier...) must call pharmacist to counsel. Seller must tell patient in effect like this: My pharmacist will be here in shortly to talk to you about your NEW medication. Hearing that statement, if patient refuses to seller (because patient is in a hurry, patient is already doctor, nurse, pharmacist, drug expert....), then, pharmacist must be close enough to hear that refusal (can not be far away at the other side of the long pharmacy.)
If script is new and seller is pharmacist, then pharmacist must open mouth and start counseling until patient stops pharmacist.
Seller can not OFFER to counsel.
Seller can not ask: Do you want consultation?
Seller can not ask: Do you have any question?
Seller can not ask: Want to talk to pharmacist?
............anything in that effect to avoid the consultation is NOT okay......
Asking is NOT allowed anymore.
We can not OFFER to counsel.
In summary, if script is new, pharmacist must counsel. Meaning, after seller calls pharmacist over, pharmacist must open mouth to counsel. If patient stops pharmacist, then pharmacist stops counseling.
We have to counsel on every single new script and beat the goal and beat the script counts last year, every.single.year, from now on until the day we drop...sorry for the rant.
Any other advice or better example, please share...Thank you very much.
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when did that happen?
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Obviously it goes state by state, not everywhere requires mandatory counseling.
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California, 2014
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It's the same at Walmart. I was told the tech says to the pt to step over to the consultation window and they wont even ring out out the pt until the counseling, then the pt has to get back in line to pay. I'm still doing computer training, but curious how it works, seems annoying.
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Now you're asking him to break HIPAA even more than he already has! Just hope the Texas BOP isn't reading this
Trolling? You can't really think this breaks HIPAA.
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I think every State Board of pharmacy does observations and undercover operations. As I understand it, our board uses our inspectors (and their families) actual prescriptions for these operations. It is the BOP's job to protect patients and enforce the practice act. Counseling requirements are a common target lately.
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