Strongly considering switching from pre-med to pre-nursing

[PreMedMermaid]

Have to study more for an upcoming chem exam, so I'll try to keep this brief:

I'm currently a pre-med majoring in Major X (won't name specific major for anonymity, since it's fairly specific to my university, but it is science-related and focuses a lot on how the healthcare field actually works, especially in later semesters).

After a lot of thought for various reasons, I'm strongly considering switching to our school's "pre-nursing" track and major, with the ultimate goal of becoming a Nurse Practitioner (which starts with me graduating undergrad with a BS in Nursing).

Basic outline of some of the reasons, in no particular order (it's a multi-dimensional, highly complex issue, but I definitely gave it a ton of thought and discussed with many people who know me personally):

• I'd be able to enter the workforce sooner, would have significantly less debt and be more able to pay it off (and do so earlier, too) since I'd be making at least roughly $60,000 to start as an RN and/or $80-90k as an NP, whereas around that same time/age as an MD/DO I'd be making at max $50k (likely less) but with about 4x the loans. Tl;dr: I'd rather be more financially satisfied (not rich per se, but comfortable enough to live with a family) in my late 20s-30s rather than when I'm 40-50+ years old.
• I'd get to spend more face-to-face time with patients than most doctors do on average. I'd still have "busy work" such as paperwork and other behind-the-scenes things, but not as much
• NP's are playing an increasingly prominent role in healthcare, especially given changes such as Obamacare etc.
• I'd feel less stressed/pressured than I probably would going through medical school and being a resident and ultimately as a doctor
• I severely struggle with (and now resent) courses like chemistry, calculus, physics etc. but LOVE biology and anatomy. Coursework for nursing/NP requires much more of a focus on a latter but minimal amounts of the former
• I'd have more time to raise a family (which is VERY important to me, personally) and would overall be able to balance my life more easily compared to if I was a doctor
• I'm highly skilled with communicating with people etc. (I'm literally the type of person to go up to random people sitting alone in a dining hall or something and start conversation) and love the idea of really caring for people and getting to know them on a more personal level - I'd want to be able to spend a little more time with each patient and make conversation, really get to know them as a person and hear their story
• Med school/residency spots are a LOT more highly competitive than nursing/NP positions, and from my experience so far in undergrad, that sort of pressure stresses me out more than the "normal" amount it should for a pre-med. Like, I feel almost depressed sometimes, my friends say I talk about my prereqs and EC's like they're things I "have" to do rather than things I "want" to do, I keep feeling an increasing sense of dread at further pre-med prereq coursework and the amount AND TYPE of material I'd have to cover (again with chem, orgo, physics etc.). I feel like I have literally no time to devote myself to anything else - there's lots of leadership organizations/other EC's I'd love to go for and devote myself to, but I feel like I have no time or energy because the pre-med stuff totally saps me.

And so on.

I really find the medical field fascinating and interesting, but I don't feel as if becoming a DOCTOR will be the best way for me, personally, to enter it. But I'm scared I'd regret "dropping out of pre-med," especially since I literally saw myself becoming a doctor since I was a little kid (cliche, but true) (though then again, I had no idea what I was getting into at the time, and I shouldn't essentially let a 4-year-old make my life decisions am I right?). I know a lot of people say not to let the pre-reqs scare you out of it, but I literally resent these classes (except for biology and similar things, and my health care electives), and I'm currently borderline FAILING two of them - not like "oh I won't get an A" but like "I'm praying I can make at least a C"

Based on what I've learned so far about the healthcare field as a whole, and based on my personal strengths and weaknesses and interests and non-interests, I'm really leaning toward NP. But how will I know if I'm making the right decision for myself - how do I know I won't regret dropping the pre-med track?

Can anyone give me some insight? I'm so scared to make this decision, but I have a gut feeling it might be what's best for me in the long run :/

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[karayaa]

Your reasons sound logical and reasonable. It seems like an excellent decision for you.
Did you also consider PA?
What would you miss the most about being a MD, if you became an NP instead?
Have you shadowed NPs and PAs and MDs? Do you know about the practice restrictions for NPs in certain states?
Are you interested in a certain field of medicine? For instance, I don't think NPs do surgery (except minor office procedures). I know they can be hospitalists and primary care providers, and partner with surgeons, where the NP does the preop and postop management of clinical care.

 

[karayaa]

btw have you read through this?
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/why-i-finally-chose-to-quit-pursuing-medicine.1109023/

 

[PreMedMermaid]

Yes I've considered PA but I think the NP "philosophy" and track (e.g. courses taken to get there) appeal more to me
I'm not sure what I'd miss... a little scared that I'd be thought of as "less smart" but then again other people's opinions don't really matter. Was in gifted/accelerated classes my entire K-12 career pretty much so being "the smart one" has always been a huge, deeply ingrained part of my personal identity. Though I'd love to have more room to figure out more of who I am and what I'm interested in aside from that label, and I feel like I'd have more room to do that on the NP track/as an NP (sorry if I'm bad at explaining this right now)
Haven't gotten to shadow yet though I've spoken with many doctors and NPs at family members' appointments in the past few years. Planning to shadow starting this summer
Yes I know about the restrictions, though I likely wouldn't mind working under a doctor if I had to. I can prescribe medications in all 50 states and can even run my own practice in a few (by the time I'd enter the field, likely more states will allow this too)
Not sure what field I'd want to go into! But the common NP fields (family, pediatrics, obgyn etc. various primary care fields) appeal to me. I never wanted to be a surgeon haha so I don't care about missing out on that

And LOL yes I ended up seeing that post literally just after posting this thread! I can understand this guy's thoughts haha. I personally don't want to be an actuary though lol. Sounds kind of boring to me, personally

 

[gyngyn]

I, for one, would never talk you out of becoming a nurse. It's an important field in need of dedicated practitioners.

 

[karayaa]

Great!
Just shadow for a bit, to get a feel for the difference in decision-making/knowledge/responsibilities. In the common fields, they're roughly equivalent, although the MD obvi has more knowledge/experience.

Personally, I don't consider obgyn to be primary care, even though they do preventative care.
And I don't know how much NPs in that field overlap with gyn doctors (eg can NPs place IUDs and do all the surgical stuff?) and obstetrics.
@gyngyn do you know?

 

[deleted346323]

Then switch

 

[gyngyn]

Great!
Just shadow for a bit, to get a feel for the difference in decision-making/knowledge/responsibilities. In the common fields, they're roughly equivalent, although the MD obvi has more knowledge/experience.

Personally, I don't consider obgyn to be primary care, even though they do preventative care.
And I don't know how much NPs in that field overlap with gyn doctors (eg can NPs place IUDs and do all the surgical stuff?) and obstetrics.
@gyngyn do you know?

Yes, NP's place IUD's, implants and any other office procedure for which they have trained and falls within scope of practice in their state.

 

[PreMedMermaid]

I don't know a ton about obgyn specifics, I was just saying it's a field I'd consider.

Oh! Thanks for bringing up the preventative care thing yeah I forgot to mention this: I feel like NP's have more of a focus on that, which really appeals to me since I've always wanted to practice with a philosophy of "prescribing" a healthy lifestyle first, before turning to any medicines. For instance, a low-cholesterol diet before prescribing pills for that, but then again I'm sure most doctors see it that way too?

America has all the epidemics going on now (obesity, heart disease, etc.) and I love the idea of educating people and families about how to prevent/reduce effects of those conditions, since some people aren't fully aware of the causes (due to factors like poverty, different cultural backgrounds, literacy issues etc. that create various barriers to health care access and information - as I've learned in some of my health care classes!) and then yeah of course some people (especially adults) are just plain ignorant, but I'd love to try to encourage their kids to do better and explain WHY they should

 

[karayaa]

I don't know a ton about obgyn specifics, I was just saying it's a field I'd consider.

Oh! Thanks for bringing up the preventative care thing yeah I forgot to mention this: I feel like NP's have more of a focus on that, which really appeals to me since I've always wanted to practice with a philosophy of "prescribing" a healthy lifestyle first, before turning to any medicines. For instance, a low-cholesterol diet before prescribing pills for that, but then again I'm sure most doctors see it that way too?

America has all the epidemics going on now (obesity, heart disease, etc.) and I love the idea of educating people and families about how to prevent/reduce effects of those conditions, since some people aren't fully aware of the causes (due to factors like poverty, different cultural backgrounds, literacy issues etc. that create various barriers to health care access and information - as I've learned in some of my health care classes!) and then yeah of course some people (especially adults) are just plain ignorant, but I'd love to try to encourage their kids to do better and explain WHY they should

I totally agree, and I love that you're thinking this way.
I know doctors who feel this way, but I think the pressures of primary care prevent doctors from doing this as much as they want to. With lower debt, NPs maybe feel that pressure less.
I would encourage you to talk to MDs/NPs about this - how much education helps, how to address the problems, how to best help people make healthy choices. You might also consider an MPH.

 

[Dr Van Helsing]

If you feel like you don't have anytime now, then you will be in hell during medical school.
Personally, I think you have a lot of solid reasons for making the switch.
I know many people who made the switch to RN, who I think, would have been fantastic MDs; people, who I think were more clever than myself.
Talk to your local physicians, NPs, and nurses to get more relevant information to your area.

I can already tell you people are going to give you crap on this forum, so just ignore them.

 

[Flashfan]

I think it is a great profession, but as someone with family members in the nursing profession, your idea that you will have less paperwork is way off-base. Please shadow in multiple settings before you change.

 

[PreMedMermaid]

Flashfan - an immediate family member of mine is a nurse (not an NP, just an RN, but still) and has worked as one for many many years. I've talked to her about this, she's had paperwork of course but she also spent A LOT of face time with patients. My original point there was sorta poorly worded lol but yes NPs do have paperwork obviously. It's just that they typically spend a larger percentage of time working directly with their patients compared to physicians, on average.

tl;dr I wouldn't be doing this to get out of paperwork - but I WOULD be doing it, in part, to spend more time with my patients

 

[AlteredScale]

Flashfan - an immediate family member of mine is a nurse (not an NP, just an RN, but still) and has worked as one for many many years. I've talked to her about this, she's had paperwork of course but she also spent A LOT of face time with patients. My original point there was sorta poorly worded lol but yes NPs do have paperwork obviously. It's just that they typically spend a larger percentage of time working directly with their patients compared to physicians, on average.

tl;dr I wouldn't be doing this to get out of paperwork - but I WOULD be doing it, in part, to spend more time with my patients

Like you said, it seems you really want the facetime with patients which you will get more of as a nurse. Hopefully you have ruled out the "cons" of nursing that go outside of the biased advice your family member(s) might give who are in the nursing field.

Correct me if I'm wrong OP. But are some of these feelings of switching due strongly to the fact that you are struggling with prerequisite courses???

 

[PreMedMermaid]

But are some of these feelings of switching due strongly to the fact that you are struggling with prerequisite courses???

Not just struggling - I actually feel miserable and inadequate from these courses. I mean yeah lots of people struggle, but most of them shrug it off one way or another, whether by dropping/retaking or by accepting mediocre/poor grades without letting them affect their personal sense of self-worth. For me, though, I resent these classes to the point where I'd hate to put myself through more of them and let them keep sapping most of my energy like this. I don't think many people would describe them as "fun," but few probably have almost daily anxiety attacks from them like I do.

But aside from that, there's a lot of other reasons I'd be switching. It's not like it's ENTIRELY due to the prereqs. But seeing as I'd be studying whichever track for x amount of years, with x being a fairly long time, I may as well be studying a track that I really enjoy and don't feel mentally, emotionally, and even physically drained from (at least not to this extent).

My close friends are all in rigorous courses too, and they don't think what I've personally been going through is healthy at all

 

[AlteredScale]

Not just struggling - I actually feel miserable and inadequate from these courses. I mean yeah lots of people struggle, but most of them shrug it off one way or another, whether by dropping/retaking or by accepting mediocre/poor grades without letting them affect their personal sense of self-worth. For me, though, I resent these classes to the point where I'd hate to put myself through more of them and let them keep sapping most of my energy like this. I don't think many people would describe them as "fun," but few probably have almost daily anxiety attacks from them like I do.

But aside from that, there's a lot of other reasons I'd be switching. It's not like it's ENTIRELY due to the prereqs. But seeing as I'd be studying whichever track for x amount of years, with x being a fairly long time, I may as well be studying a track that I really enjoy and don't feel mentally, emotionally, and even physically drained from (at least not to this extent).

My close friends are all in rigorous courses too, and they don't think what I've personally been going through is healthy at all

Thank you for the explanation OP. After seeing what you have posted I too think it will be healthy for you (in all aspects) to start considering other healthcare career paths. If you are unhappy now then I truly feel that you will not be much "happier" when medical school begins and you find that it really wasn't what you were looking for.

Nursing is an absolutely great career choice and is needed greatly. I know it's probably tough because you don't want to be labeled as the one who "gave up on premed" but seriously, be proud of your choice and making a rationale and selfish decision, it's your life we are talking about. Though medicine sounds great from the outside it's one of the most daunting career choices one can make and can very much be a lifelong "mistake" if you are coming into it with the wrong intentions are are simply discontent with the career.

I for one can say I back you 100% with this choice and wish you the very best of luck in your career endeavors!

 

[ickhequan]

It's an important field in need of dedicated practitioners.

 

[Old_Mil]

But how will I know if I'm making the right decision for myself - how do I know I won't regret dropping the pre-med track?

Can anyone give me some insight? I'm so scared to make this decision, but I have a gut feeling it might be what's best for me in the long run :/

Change is always difficult. In the current environment there are only two kinds of people who should be premeds: (1) You think you will become clinically depressed and consider ending your life if you don't become a doctor (in which case you may be crazy anyway) or (2) a burning bush appeared in your yard and verbally ordered you to go to medical school.

I would consider abandoning the healh care track altogether and if you like the science get a PhD.

 

[alpinism]

I don't know a ton about obgyn specifics, I was just saying it's a field I'd consider.

Oh! Thanks for bringing up the preventative care thing yeah I forgot to mention this: I feel like NP's have more of a focus on that, which really appeals to me since I've always wanted to practice with a philosophy of "prescribing" a healthy lifestyle first, before turning to any medicines. For instance, a low-cholesterol diet before prescribing pills for that, but then again I'm sure most doctors see it that way too?

America has all the epidemics going on now (obesity, heart disease, etc.) and I love the idea of educating people and families about how to prevent/reduce effects of those conditions, since some people aren't fully aware of the causes (due to factors like poverty, different cultural backgrounds, literacy issues etc. that create various barriers to health care access and information - as I've learned in some of my health care classes!) and then yeah of course some people (especially adults) are just plain ignorant, but I'd love to try to encourage their kids to do better and explain WHY they should

Not to be a dower but you need to hear this now.

In medicine today, whether MD or NP, 90% of your patients have no interest in healthy lifestyles. They come to the clinic because they want an easy fix to their problem, not a lecture on their diet. 250lb Mary-Jo ins't going to give up her beloved chocolate chip cookies and jelly donuts just because you educate her on the dangers of diabetes and HTN. She also isn't going to start exercising because she hates sweating and because of he knee pain from being overweight. In fact, she just wants oxycodone for her knee and if you won't give it to her, she'll find another doctor who will. At the same time, since you won't give out narcotics for knee pain, you'll get bad patient satisfaction scores and be reprimanded or fired by your medical practice.

Also, even as an NP, you'll still have a limited time with which to talk to patients in the clinic. Probably 20 to 30 min at most if you're lucky. If you have a patient that comes in with multiple chief complaints (often 2 or 3) on multiple medications (often more than 5 or 6) you'll be spending the vast majority of your time trying to figure those things out. Its next to impossible to have a thoughtful and meaningful discussion about preventive medicine in the 5 minutes you'll have left. Which is why in the real world this rarely gets done.

You can schedule consults with diabetes educators, nutritionists, physical therapists, and social workers, but most of the time the patient won't show up or isn't interested in that option. Not to mention they're not going to pay for it if it not covered by insurance.

I'd highly suggest shadowing before you make a decision on NP v. MD.

At the same time, if you really are interested in preventative care, I'd also look into those above careers or consider working in public health.

 

[W19]

I think it is a great profession, but as someone with family members in the nursing profession, your idea that you will have less paperwork is way off-base. Please shadow in multiple settings before you change.

Yeah... I see people have that idea on SDN that NP spend more time with patients and they work 40 hrs/wk... They are completely wrong... The same complaints that you hear from physicians are the same ones you hear from NP/PA except the astronomical student debt that physicians have. My NP friend was like that too until she saw herself working 50+ hours/week and covering night admissions... She kept changing jobs and the conditions did not change until she got tired of it and get a job M-F (8-5) at a non profit clinic for almost 20% pay cut... Most NP/PA work for physicians, do people really think that these physicians would work all the crazy hours and holidays and let these NP/PA enjoy time with their families?

 

[BestDoctorEver]

Flashfan - an immediate family member of mine is a nurse (not an NP, just an RN, but still) and has worked as one for many many years. I've talked to her about this, she's had paperwork of course but she also spent A LOT of face time with patients. My original point there was sorta poorly worded lol but yes NPs do have paperwork obviously. It's just that they typically spend a larger percentage of time working directly with their patients compared to physicians, on average.

tl;dr I wouldn't be doing this to get out of paperwork - but I WOULD be doing it, in part, to spend more time with my patients

In what kind of setting does he/she work? I was a nurse for a few years and I did not spend 'A LOT' of time with patients the way you seem to believe... Of course, I spend more time with them than physicians since I am there for 12 hrs, but not the way people think... My guesstimate is that 60% of my time was spent doing paper work and coordinating care. Imagine you have 6 patients on a med-surge floor... Do the math on how much time you can spend with every single one them when 60% of time is spent doing paper work! The common patients complaints in the hospital that I worked was that they hardly see their nurses and doctors... We carry a phone on the floor for these reasons... Administrators care more about you doing paper work than actual patient care because...guess what! that is how they get reimbursed... In fact, this is common complaint among every single nurse that I went to school with...

 

[iBro]

Have to study more for an upcoming chem exam, so I'll try to keep this brief:

I'm currently a pre-med majoring in Major X (won't name specific major for anonymity, since it's fairly specific to my university, but it is science-related and focuses a lot on how the healthcare field actually works, especially in later semesters).

After a lot of thought for various reasons, I'm strongly considering switching to our school's "pre-nursing" track and major, with the ultimate goal of becoming a Nurse Practitioner (which starts with me graduating undergrad with a BS in Nursing).

Basic outline of some of the reasons, in no particular order (it's a multi-dimensional, highly complex issue, but I definitely gave it a ton of thought and discussed with many people who know me personally):

• I'd be able to enter the workforce sooner, would have significantly less debt and be more able to pay it off (and do so earlier, too) since I'd be making at least roughly $60,000 to start as an RN and/or $80-90k as an NP, whereas around that same time/age as an MD/DO I'd be making at max $50k (likely less) but with about 4x the loans. Tl;dr: I'd rather be more financially satisfied (not rich per se, but comfortable enough to live with a family) in my late 20s-30s rather than when I'm 40-50+ years old.
• I'd get to spend more face-to-face time with patients than most doctors do on average. I'd still have "busy work" such as paperwork and other behind-the-scenes things, but not as much
• NP's are playing an increasingly prominent role in healthcare, especially given changes such as Obamacare etc.
• I'd feel less stressed/pressured than I probably would going through medical school and being a resident and ultimately as a doctor
• I severely struggle with (and now resent) courses like chemistry, calculus, physics etc. but LOVE biology and anatomy. Coursework for nursing/NP requires much more of a focus on a latter but minimal amounts of the former
• I'd have more time to raise a family (which is VERY important to me, personally) and would overall be able to balance my life more easily compared to if I was a doctor
• I'm highly skilled with communicating with people etc. (I'm literally the type of person to go up to random people sitting alone in a dining hall or something and start conversation) and love the idea of really caring for people and getting to know them on a more personal level - I'd want to be able to spend a little more time with each patient and make conversation, really get to know them as a person and hear their story
• Med school/residency spots are a LOT more highly competitive than nursing/NP positions, and from my experience so far in undergrad, that sort of pressure stresses me out more than the "normal" amount it should for a pre-med. Like, I feel almost depressed sometimes, my friends say I talk about my prereqs and EC's like they're things I "have" to do rather than things I "want" to do, I keep feeling an increasing sense of dread at further pre-med prereq coursework and the amount AND TYPE of material I'd have to cover (again with chem, orgo, physics etc.). I feel like I have literally no time to devote myself to anything else - there's lots of leadership organizations/other EC's I'd love to go for and devote myself to, but I feel like I have no time or energy because the pre-med stuff totally saps me.

And so on.

I really find the medical field fascinating and interesting, but I don't feel as if becoming a DOCTOR will be the best way for me, personally, to enter it. But I'm scared I'd regret "dropping out of pre-med," especially since I literally saw myself becoming a doctor since I was a little kid (cliche, but true) (though then again, I had no idea what I was getting into at the time, and I shouldn't essentially let a 4-year-old make my life decisions am I right?). I know a lot of people say not to let the pre-reqs scare you out of it, but I literally resent these classes (except for biology and similar things, and my health care electives), and I'm currently borderline FAILING two of them - not like "oh I won't get an A" but like "I'm praying I can make at least a C"

Based on what I've learned so far about the healthcare field as a whole, and based on my personal strengths and weaknesses and interests and non-interests, I'm really leaning toward NP. But how will I know if I'm making the right decision for myself - how do I know I won't regret dropping the pre-med track?

Can anyone give me some insight? I'm so scared to make this decision, but I have a gut feeling it might be what's best for me in the long run :/

Just be aware of where you will be working. Depending on where you're located there is a slim chance of making 60k as a new nursing grad. Also equally unlikely to make 90k fresh out of NP school.

 

[PreMedMermaid]

Hmm... I'm still so scared I'd regret this, though... how do I know if I'm more inclined to "think like a doctor" vs. "think like a nurse"?
Mom (who is an RN, though not an NP) says she always thought I think more like a doctor, though I'd do well as a nurse too... she thinks I'd feel unsatisfied in the nursing field. But again she's an RN and not an NP, so... maybe she thinks more of the RN role when she thinks of nursing

^ more insight would be appreciated

 

[W19]

Hmm... I'm still so scared I'd regret this, though... how do I know if I'm more inclined to "think like a doctor" vs. "think like a nurse"?
Mom (who is an RN, though not an NP) says she always thought I think more like a doctor, though I'd do well as a nurse too... she thinks I'd feel unsatisfied in the nursing field. But again she's an RN and not an NP, so... maybe she thinks more of the RN role when she thinks of nursing

^ more insight would be appreciated

Listen to your mom...

 

[Dr Van Helsing]

Hmm... I'm still so scared I'd regret this, though... how do I know if I'm more inclined to "think like a doctor" vs. "think like a nurse"?
Mom (who is an RN, though not an NP) says she always thought I think more like a doctor, though I'd do well as a nurse too... she thinks I'd feel unsatisfied in the nursing field. But again she's an RN and not an NP, so... maybe she thinks more of the RN role when she thinks of nursing

^ more insight would be appreciated

Moms are supposed to be nice.
If you're an NP you'll be one of the smartest ones in class right? Why level the playing field for yourself in medical school; you are so bright.

 

[PreMedMermaid]

Moms are supposed to be nice.
If you're an NP you'll be one of the smartest ones in class right? Why level the playing field for yourself in medical school; you are so bright.

Wait what are you trying to say here exactly

EDIT: just throwing this in haha I read your little bio thing (under your pic) that says "What does the spleen do?" to the tune of "What does the fox say?" dunno why

 

[Dr Van Helsing]

Wait what are you trying to say here exactly

EDIT: just throwing this in haha I read your little bio thing (under your pic) that says "What does the spleen do?" to the tune of "What does the fox say?" dunno why

Enjoy

 

[toutou]

Take what I say with a grain of salt. It's merely an experience from a fellow nurse who's been in the game for close to a decade now. Think long and hard about your decision, and I mean it. I had the same idea as you did. I wanted nursing because I love the patient contact, just to find out the unit is completely under staffed and administrators take short cuts and you have no choice but to work short all the time, with very little acknowledgment and respect plus cutting down patient contact because you have to tend to the needs of everybody you care for.

If you're like me at all, the glass ceiling affect is real and it's there. I never really gave it much thought about this situation until I was a practicing nurse for about a year. You realize very quickly about your roles and how far you can push them.

Nursing is a great and respectable field.

Just remember though, you can always go back if you feel unsatisfied. Unfortunately you will have to retake those courses if needed but it's not the end of the road if you realize nursing isn't for you. I did just that. Got my RN diploma, worked and realize it wasn't for me, went back to school and I will be graduating with a degree in biochem spring of 2015.

 

[PreMedMermaid]

I had the same idea as you did. I wanted nursing

If you don't mind me asking - are you an RN, or an NP?

 

[Meerkatology]

the MD track does not preclude you from having a life/family. MD school is 4 years that's the only time where you can't have a life - even this is debatable. NP school = 3? years + i think they require a few years of being a nurse before you can apply. MD - residencies at least nonsurgical ones are really not that bad. There is enough time for family, plenty of my female co-residents had babies during residency. I had fun during residency and didn't feel like it was very hard overall; some rotations are difficult but most of the time its reasonable.

if you want to see patients, and you have the ability to become an MD then I wouldn't choose otherwise, to me, none of the counter-reasons are deal breakers and can all be circumvented.

the financial argument does not stand. you can be 400k in debt after finishing but you'll be making so much more and paying it off will not be an issue.

if there is any doubt that you may regret not going for MD, then go for it and if it doesn't work out, then go do np/pa.

also once you're all done, the MD's will likely have better work schedules than the NP's - at least true for my group. If you are gonna be working at somewhat underserved areas at all, MD's are treated like gods, they will do everything they can to make life easier for you and accommodate your schedule in order to keep you.

2cents

 

[W19]

the MD track does not preclude you from having a life/family. MD school is 4 years that's the only time where you can't have a life - even this is debatable. NP school = 3? years + i think they require a few years of being a nurse before you can apply. MD - residencies at least nonsurgical ones are really not that bad. There is enough time for family, plenty of my female co-residents had babies during residency. I had fun during residency and didn't feel like it was very hard overall; some rotations are difficult but most of the time its reasonable.

if you want to see patients, and you have the ability to become an MD then I wouldn't choose otherwise, to me, none of the counter-reasons are deal breakers and can all be circumvented.

the financial argument does not stand. you can be 400k in debt after finishing but you'll be making so much more and paying it off will not be an issue.

if there is any doubt that you may regret not going for MD, then go for it and if it doesn't work out, then go do np/pa.

also once you're all done, the MD's will likely have better work schedules than the NP's - at least true for my group. If you are gonna be working at somewhat underserved areas at all, MD's are treated like gods, they will do everything they can to make life easier for you and accommodate your schedule in order to keep you.

2cents

There is that fiction in SDN that most NP/PA make $1ook/year working 40 hrs/wk... I laugh when I read this nonsense... I know one NP who is working as a floor nurse because it's better for her financially... She can work 48 hrs/week and make 100k with benefits.

 

[FCMike11]

There is that fiction in SDN that most NP/PA make $1ook/year working 40 hrs/wk... I laugh when I read this nonsense... I know one NP who is working as a floor nurse because it's better for her financially... She can work 48 hrs/week and make 100k with benefits.

But the median income for PA's is 90k (not that far off ), maybe you are referring to the 40 hrs a week?

I am an ICU RN going back to school for the expanded scope sure, but working 12 hour shifts is a grind, but kudos to her I guess.

 

[W19]

But the median income for PA's is 90k (not that far off ), maybe you are referring to the 40 hrs a week?

I am an ICU RN going back to school for the expanded scope sure, but working 12 hour shifts is a grind, but kudos to her I guess.

She told me she tried with a couple of physicians, but the hours were so erratic with calls etc.. and the benefit were not so great. I guess she like predictability of knowing what kind of schedule she got every week.. I was referring to the 40 hrs/wk AND 100k/year... If you read multiple post NP/PA vs. MD/DO, you will clearly see that many think that NP/PA work 9-5 and make 100k/year, which is not the case for the vast majority of NP/PA... As a matter of fact, I was talking to one of my friends yesterday who is a nurse, he was also thinking about NP, but after talking to a couple of NPs, he quickly realized it would be terrible decision... He makes 90k/year working an average 45 hrs/week and the NPs he talked to told him they don't even make that much and they are working more than 45 hrs. Again, this is Florida, the market might be different in other part of the country...

 

[FCMike11]

She told me she tried with a couple of physicians, but the hours were so erratic with calls etc.. and the benefit were not so great. I guess she like predictability of knowing what kind of schedule she got every week.. I was referring to the 40 hrs/wk AND 100k/year... If you read multiple post NP/PA vs. MD/DO, you will clearly see that many think that NP/PA work 9-5 and make 100k/year, which is not the case for the vast majority of NP/PA... As a matter of fact, I was talking to one of my friends yesterday who is a nurse, he was also thinking about NP, but after talking to a couple of NPs, he quickly realized it would be terrible decision... He makes 90k/year working an average 45 hrs/week and the NPs he talked to told him they don't even make that much and they are working more than 45 hrs. Again, this is Florida, the market might be different in other part of the country...

Ahh yeah. It depends on what you want. I live in east Texas, super low cost of living but just working my scheduled hours as RN with 4 years experience I make 55kish. I work with some who do make 75-90k but tons of overtime. I could move to Houston and bump up maybe 10$ /hr or so, but that comes with different area. I know a PA in this city that makes 95k working Monday-Friday 830-430 or so, but that's in a subspecialty, no call but runs her physicians clinic.

Then again I see your case, one of our house supervisors is an Acute Care DNP, but chooses not to practice in that expertise (never asked), teaches some at the college as well.

 

[toutou]

If you don't mind me asking - are you an RN, or an NP?

I'm an RN with 7 years of experience in multiple specialties. The grass isn't always greener on the other side, kiddo. Definitely talk and shadow everyone and everything you're interested in. If you want it badly enough you'll make it work.

 

[IlDestriero]

If you prioritize your time and plan properly, there is no reason that you can't have a very balanced life in medical school and residency. I had a great 9 years. There are times when free time is scarce and you will have to prioritize your outside desires, but that is not the majority of the time by any stretch. Residency pays fine BTW, you're hardly impoverished at 45-50k a year, unless you have a non working spouse and/or live in a very expensive area.
The debt is real and there's little you can do outside of spending only what you need and hoping to get into a state school and/or some scholarship money. However, it is manageable on a physician income, and some reasonable sacrifice on your part can kill it much faster.
Once you're over that hurdle, the increased income potential, possibly vastly increased, opens the door to a lot of opportunities. Luxuries of many kinds, retirement savings, investments, rental properties, business ventures, decreased work days, early retirement, stay at home spouse, etc. None of these things are impossible at 100k/yr, but they're much easier at 300.

 

[FFH]

Statistically speaking, you have a higher chance of being happy with your job as a nurse vs. as a physician. Source: some survey that I read somewhere.

 

[Silverflash]

Your reasons seem very well thought out. I wouldn't lose sleep over the decision; it sounds like a logical choice for you. I wish you the best of luck in whichever path you end up taking.

 

[karayaa]

Statistically speaking, you have a higher chance of being happy with your job as a nurse vs. as a physician. Source: some survey that I read somewhere.

Questionable. Check out the white hall study. Positions at the top of management have the least stress/best health, compared o the lower rungs, so MDs should be happier than RNs. Even though they have more responsibility, they have more autonomy and decision-making ability, which translates to more perceived efficacy and less stress.

 

[Dr Van Helsing]

Questionable. Check out the white hall study. Positions at the top of management have the least stress/best health, compared o the lower rungs, so MDs should be happier than RNs. Even though they have more responsibility, they have more autonomy and decision-making ability, which translates to more perceived efficacy and less stress.

lol

 

[karayaa]

lol

?

 

[Dr Van Helsing]

?

laugh out load

 

[FFH]

Questionable. Check out the white hall study. Positions at the top of management have the least stress/best health, compared o the lower rungs, so MDs should be happier than RNs. Even though they have more responsibility, they have more autonomy and decision-making ability, which translates to more perceived efficacy and less stress.

I am in the middle of trying to find resources to learn Spanish so I won't be checking references, but yes, the conclusion was indeed in general nurses are happier than doctors with their work. Jokes on you, if you think physicians are at the top of management. Most doctors who do not own independent practice are at the very bottom of the management within the healthcare enterprises. They don't have much autonomy these days. And if I remember correctly what I learn from my global comparative health outcomes and policy course that I took 5 years ago, white hall study was not about job satisfaction, it's about health outcomes.

 

[karayaa]

I am in the middle of trying to find resources to learn Spanish so I won't be checking references, but yes, the conclusion was indeed in general nurses are happier than doctors with their work. Jokes on you, if you think physicians are at the top of management. Most doctors who do not own independent practice are at the very bottom of the management within the healthcare enterprises. They don't have much autonomy these days. And if I remember correctly what I learn from my global comparative health outcomes and policy course that I took 5 years ago, white hall study was not about job satisfaction, it's about health outcomes.

I agree with most of what you suggest here.
I was trying to make a comparison.
Since doctors are higher in the healthcare hierarchy than nurses, they correlate with whitehall administrators.
I assumed that happiness was the opposite of stress, and yes, I think the study focused on health outcomes, which are influenced by stress. but I could be wrong, since I read it on my own rather than for a class.
So I didn't mean that the practicing MDs are at the top of management all the time.
I know there are lots of frustrated doctors, and lots of happy nurses. Personality and lots of other factors play into that I suppose, besides the job description.
pero que no dejes de estudiar el castellano

edit - @Dr Van Helsing did you lol for the same reason?

 

[Dr Van Helsing]

I agree with most of what you suggest here.
I was trying to make a comparison.
Since doctors are higher in the healthcare hierarchy than nurses, they correlate with whitehall administrators.
I assumed that happiness was the opposite of stress, and yes, I think the study focused on health outcomes, which are influenced by stress. but I could be wrong, since I read it on my own rather than for a class.
So I didn't mean that the practicing MDs are at the top of management all the time.
I know there are lots of frustrated doctors, and lots of happy nurses. Personality and lots of other factors play into that I suppose, besides the job description.
pero que no dejes de estudiar el castellano

edit - @Dr Van Helsing did you lol for the same reason?

I was just preying on you. I spoof sometimes when its slow at the hospital (volunteering).

 

[PreMedMermaid]

Hey, so I have an update (sort of) and would like a little insight on this too:
(Going to speak with the advisor this week, whenever she's in, btw)

At my school, you technically apply to the undergraduate nursing program during sophomore year. It's "highly competitive" and though no official stats seem to be available anywhere, I asked a friend who had applied and had many friends apply, and she said it hovers around a 25% acceptance rate (out of herself and 6 friends, only 1 got in - and it wasn't her).

This friend told me that, if not accepted, the only option left is to major in something else (usually something vaguely health related) and upon graduating undergrad, to apply to accelerated nursing programs (read: more time, more money).

So like... this acceptance rate is even lower than the general medical school acceptance rate (roughly 50% of people getting in to at least 1 medical school). And in switching the track, I wouldn't be taking any more of the pre-med prereqs for the most part, so it's not like "oh lemme go back and do pre-med stuff" because that'd mean cramming all these pre-med courses into 1-2 years (as opposed to 3-4 years). (Plus I'm sure med schools would find that a little weird)

Tl;dr: pre-nursing is highly risky. And due to starting slightly late (I won't be behind, but it might look a little sketchy when they realize I started out pre-med based on my courses?), having almost no EC involvement yet (due to being overwhelmed in my classes), and two iffy grades (though not technically in nursing prereqs, but still), I might be at a huge disadvantage.

I mean, I'd definitely be able to bring my GPA up to par by the time I'd be officially applying, and I'd perform significantly better in the nursing prereqs than in some of my current pre-med courses, and I'd also probably have some decent campus leadership by then. But I don't want to get screwed over if I'm not accepted, and not have anywhere to go at that point...

Anyone have any insight here? Again, I'll speak with the advisor this week for sure, but I want some opinions (I'm sure most of you have already gone through undergrad and realize what I'm going through isn't exactly the end of the world, lol)

 

[karayaa]

I don't know the pre-reqs for nursing programs...is this a RN program or BSN?

 

[velodork]

I found myself in a similar situation as yours in recent times. I was on track to go (apply) to medical school, and then my son was born. I started to question whether or not I was willing to sacrifice not only my life but his as well to achieve my dreams. For a while I continued on a very similar track as med school but towards a PA program. During the 18 months since I began on that track I started to realize that while PA school was certainly a viable option, it did not allow me the opportunity of achieving my maximum potential as a student and caregiver. I started thinking about 10-15 years from now... I could totally predict that I would eventually be asking myself why I never followed through with my long term dream of becoming a physician. If anything, I would recommend you trying to do this.

All debt and projected income aside- 10,15, 20 years from now, which path do you think will offer you the most happiness to have followed???

 

[Entadus]

"A beggar cannot renounce wealth," Master would say. "If a man laments: 'My business has failed; my wife has left me; I will renounce all and enter a monastery,' to what worldly sacrifice is he referring? He did not renounce wealth and love; they renounced him!"
-Autobiography of a Yogi

I know a lot of people say not to let the pre-reqs scare you out of it, but I literally resent these classes (except for biology and similar things, and my health care electives), and I'm currently borderline FAILING two of them - not like "oh I won't get an A" but like "I'm praying I can make at least a C"

Are you deciding you don't WANT to be a doc? Or are you saying you can't do it (low grades)? You can't tank your GPA and then say "I'm choosing NP over MD!"

 

[PreMedMermaid]

"A beggar cannot renounce wealth," Master would say. "If a man laments: 'My business has failed; my wife has left me; I will renounce all and enter a monastery,' to what worldly sacrifice is he referring? He did not renounce wealth and love; they renounced him!"
-Autobiography of a Yogi

This quote is really making me think. Dude, thanks so much.

I need to own up to this exam this week, and to my finals, too. No way around that.

Also, my reasons for switching aren't due to those grades lol. Well one reason does have to do with those courses, but not directly the grades I have now as much as the fact that they're weaknesses of mine whereas the nursing prereqs highlight my strengths better. As does the role of an NP, I think. As in, I think I'd make a better NP than I would a physician.

...but the truth is, how would I ever know until it happens one way or the other (or some other way altogether)