subtract 1 Lizzy for every 3 weeks after July not being complete

[americandragon]

I've read an sdn comment a while ago that mentioned the idea that one Lizzy point is subtracted every 3 weeks after July 31 for the schools that have not gotten your secondary. Did LizzyM ever mention this herself? or is this just neurotic premed math?

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[darkjedi]

The subtract 1 LizzyM point is just a way of trying to demonstrate how harmful it is to your application if you delay submission by more than a couple weeks. I doubt the math is accurate, and I think that honestly, subtracting 1 LizzyM point/3 weeks is probably underestimating how damaging it is to have a late application.

Also it's not about having gotten your secondary, but rather if you've submitted your primary early, since the verification process lengthens rapidly after the first few weeks of submission. I think at a certain point every day you wait for primary submission adds 3 days of verification time. Secondary submission is slightly more lax and you should try to submit within 2 weeks of receiving them, which may vary from school to school.

 

[americandragon]

Thanks for the quick reply!

I definitely understand the damages from having a late application but I was wondering if this damage starts as soon as Aug 1st? I plan to prewrite my secondaries and have them complete to coincide with the completion of my verification. This date would be mid Aug.

 

[darkjedi]

I definitely understand the damages from having a late application but I was wondering if this damage starts as soon as Aug 1st? I plan to prewrite my secondaries and have them complete to coincide with the completion of my verification. This date would be mid Aug.

No it is just an estimation just as the LizzyM score itself is. There is no cut and dry mathematical equation adcoms go by. The rule of thumb is the same in that you should try to submit as early as possible. You have the right mindset going in as far as prewriting secondaries and submitting them soon after you receive them.

 

[LizzyM]

Basically it is saying that you have to a stronger applicant on paper if your application is complete later than July 31 (complete meaning primary & secondary). How much stronger? 1 MCAT point or 0.1 GPA stronger for every 3 weeks beyond July 31.

Not a cut and dry equation, just a good rule of thumb in targeting your applications and a motivation to be the early bird.

 

[NoDakDok]

Not a cut and dry equation, just a good rule of thumb in targeting your applications and a motivation to be the early bird.

This is all it is - don't read too much into the numbers behind it. Unless there's an example of some school actually using that method I'd call it bogus. But to elaborate:

Earlier is better in every single situation in which the application submitted is identical - but how it harms your application is highly up to interpretation. For example, applying to Mayo in November will get the general applicant nowhere. At a place like my state school as long as you have your application in by November the submission date will have no impact on your application. This is because Mayo has a stringent "first come first serve" policy whereas my state school reviews all the applications they get after the application due date has passed. The method of application processing varies greatly from school to school between those two ends of the spectrum.

So in reality, it's all school-specific with the general consensus being the early bird gets the worm.

 

[Skull Pell]

How about for applicants this cycle who would take their MCAT at a later date, say late July. Would that be very late if all else have been submitted?

 

[gettheleadout]

How about for applicants this cycle who would take their MCAT at a later date, say late July. Would that be very late if all else have been submitted?

You won't be complete at schools til late August, it doesn't change anything.


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[drisaac]

How about for applicants this cycle who would take their MCAT at a later date, say late July. Would that be very late if all else have been submitted?

I'm on the same boat as you. I'm schedule for Aug 7, and worry that it will be super late for the application cycle. But then again, a great MCAT score and strong application would definitely offset some of the timing. imo.

 

[Law2Doc]

I've read an sdn comment a while ago that mentioned the idea that one Lizzy point is subtracted every 3 weeks after July 31 for the schools that have not gotten your secondary. Did LizzyM ever mention this herself? or is this just neurotic premed math?

Don't get too stuck on these made up formulae. Its just meant to be a back of the envelope guestimate of whether or not you are competitive. That's it. No magic here. No guarantees. This isn't something schools actually use and you will meet more people who get in or don't get into med school outside of this formula (and ones like it) than in it. So no, no school is going to calculate a score like this and then make deductions. You will meet people who apply late and get in and more people who would have benefitted from n early application, but not because someone was recalculating a score, but rather because in a rolling process the later spots become more competitive.

I think people misuse the Lizzy score on here as if it's another check the box requirement/gospel and need to realize that this is an estimation tool she created for you the applicant, not something that schools actually use.

 

[americandragon]

Basically it is saying that you have to a stronger applicant on paper if your application is complete later than July 31 (complete meaning primary & secondary). How much stronger? 1 MCAT point or 0.1 GPA stronger for every 3 weeks beyond July 31.

Not a cut and dry equation, just a good rule of thumb in targeting your applications and a motivation to be the early bird.

Thank you for your valuable advice once again Lizzy!
Does this mean that schools would be less likely to view my entire application (recc letters, meaningful activities, disadvantage status essay, etc.) if I am completed mid Aug vs. mid June? I understand that all schools are different but is this true of your commitee? I am around 1-2 Lizzy points below my dream's schools LizzyM score but I feel I have unique contributions, activities, and future goals that a med school would desire outside my less than stellar numbers.

I am now kicking myself for listening to advice from my undergrad college that being complete after late Aug is when things start to turn bad.

 

[LizzyM]

You are just as likely to get your entire application reviewed but it seems to take more to impress us as we move into the later portion of the cycle. Consider that 25% of all the applications receive are received on day 1. So we are 25% into the season before we get to the applications that arrivied on Day 1+1 if we take them in the order in which they are received. Reading applications can take 20 weeks at some big schools -- that means we are 5 weeks in before we get to the applications that arrived on day 2 and I'd bet we are 10 weeks in before we see the applications that were complete in August. Figure that it might be 10-20 weeks between the time you are complete and the date of your interview, if you get one.

 

[americandragon]

You are just as likely to get your entire application reviewed but it seems to take more to impress us as we move into the later portion of the cycle. Consider that 25% of all the applications receive are received on day 1. So we are 25% into the season before we get to the applications that arrivied on Day 1+1 if we take them in the order in which they are received. Reading applications can take 20 weeks at some big schools -- that means were 5 weeks in before we get to the applications that arrived on day 2 and I'd bet were're 10 weeks in before we see the applications that were complete in August. Figure that it might be 10-20 weeks between the time you are complete and the date of your interview, if you get one.

Thanks for the quick reply (and on a holiday!! no less)
Day 1 = June 1st? or Day 1 = the first day your committee accepts secondary submissions in June/July and then proceeds to review apps in order of secondary submission date?

 

[LizzyM]

That Day 1 figure is first day that AMCAS transmits applications to the med schools (June 28 or so??) Figure that the secondaries go out & come back in a timely fashion and you have 25% of those arriving during the first week or so from the time the first one goes out (no pre-screen before the secondary). So I'd figure that by July 10 we have 20-25% of the applicants we are going to get that year -- in some case minus the letters which some schools don't send until August. We start making interview invites at about that point in the cycle.

 

[kjw1024]

That Day 1 figure is first day that AMCAS transmits applications to the med schools (June 28 or so??) Figure that the secondaries go out & come back in a timely fashion and you have 25% of those arriving during the first week or so from the time the first one goes out (no pre-screen before the secondary). So I'd figure that by July 10 we have 20-25% of the applicants we are going to get that year -- in some case minus the letters which some schools don't send until August. We start making interview invites at about that point in the cycle.

Thank you, LizzyM, for this valuable information, and thank you, americandragon, for starting this thread! For applicants whose committee letters will not be sent out until mid-July at the earliest, will this be a huge detriment or will medical schools review these applicants, put them aside until LoRs arrive, and then potentially send out II's if they're interested with no real impact? I know there have been a number of threads and questions on committee letters lately, but I haven't been able to find a solid answer on how schools review these applicants based on their completion times. I apologize if this has been addressed previously!

 

[LizzyM]

Thank you, LizzyM, for this valuable information, and thank you, americandragon, for starting this thread! For applicants whose committee letters will not be sent out until mid-July at the earliest, will this be a huge detriment or will medical schools review these applicants, put them aside until LoRs arrive, and then potentially send out II's if they're interested with no real impact? I know there have been a number of threads and questions on committee letters lately, but I haven't been able to find a solid answer on how schools review these applicants based on their completion times. I apologize if this has been addressed previously!

I've seen it go both ways... some applications will be held until the LORs arrive and in some cases, the II will be sent along with a "note to file" that the LORs had not been reviewed when the II was sent (and therefore should be examined after the interview).

At my school, we don't get busy reading applications until August. We read about 5% of the applications per week for 20 weeks and if they are taken "first in/first read" then as you can see, it is September before we get to the applications that arrived on day #2. Get those secondaries in asap!

 

[kjw1024]

I've seen it go both ways... some applications will be held until the LORs arrive and in some cases, the II will be sent along with a "note to file" that the LORs had not been reviewed when the II was sent (and therefore should be examined after the interview).

At my school, we don't get busy reading applications until August. We read about 5% of the applications per week for 20 weeks and if they are taken "first in/first read" then as you can see, it is September before we get to the applications that arrived on day #2. Get those secondaries in asap!

Thank you for your response, LizzyM! You're wonderful .

 

[ridethecliche]

The day one thing freaked me out till you clarified that it was the first day AMCAS forwarded apps.

wowza hahaa