Suggestions for 4th year Anatomy Elective: what should I focus on?

[Espion]

My very last rotation is a "self directed" anatomy lab. Basically, my school acquires an extra cadaver (all for me!) for focused dissection based on a self-developed list of objectives.

Now I realize that this won't necessarily serve me in the greatest stead as a surgical intern (i.e. learning how to Kocherize the duodenum would be fun, but not necessarily useful), but I thought this would be a great way to end the year. That and I want to do the dude/ette who graciously donated their body to science a little justice by actually furthering the knowledge of a lowly future surgeon and not just give me a chance to goof off.

So what do you think would be most helpful? I'm thinking less "hack and remove" and more "open and explore" in terms of anatomical relationships (and aberrancies), surgical exposure, etc. I have four entire weeks with 24 hour access to the lab, so I have a lot of time at my disposal.

Gracias!

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[doc05]

sounds like a supreme waste of time and waste of a cadaver.

 

[SLUser11]

sounds like a supreme waste of time and waste of a cadaver.

seriously.

 

[geekgirl]

My very last rotation is a "self directed" anatomy lab. Basically, my school acquires an extra cadaver (all for me!) for focused dissection based on a self-developed list of objectives.

Now I realize that this won't necessarily serve me in the greatest stead as a surgical intern (i.e. learning how to Kocherize the duodenum would be fun, but not necessarily useful), but I thought this would be a great way to end the year. That and I want to do the dude/ette who graciously donated their body to science a little justice by actually furthering the knowledge of a lowly future surgeon and not just give me a chance to goof off.

So what do you think would be most helpful? I'm thinking less "hack and remove" and more "open and explore" in terms of anatomical relationships (and aberrancies), surgical exposure, etc. I have four entire weeks with 24 hour access to the lab, so I have a lot of time at my disposal.

Gracias!

i dont think it's a waste at all.
practice surgeries you've seen performed. and are intersted in.
take the acs book, or surgical atlas and see if you can't (sorta) repeat surgeries you've seen done repeatedly on your last service.
i think it sounds like a great opportunity. and pretty fun.
best of luck.

 

[solstice118]

My very last rotation is a "self directed" anatomy lab. Basically, my school acquires an extra cadaver (all for me!) for focused dissection based on a self-developed list of objectives.

Now I realize that this won't necessarily serve me in the greatest stead as a surgical intern (i.e. learning how to Kocherize the duodenum would be fun, but not necessarily useful), but I thought this would be a great way to end the year. That and I want to do the dude/ette who graciously donated their body to science a little justice by actually furthering the knowledge of a lowly future surgeon and not just give me a chance to goof off.

So what do you think would be most helpful? I'm thinking less "hack and remove" and more "open and explore" in terms of anatomical relationships (and aberrancies), surgical exposure, etc. I have four entire weeks with 24 hour access to the lab, so I have a lot of time at my disposal.

Gracias!

Yeah man. I am doing it too. There's a group of us and the bodies will be used for prosections for the incoming anatomy class. It's not a waste of time and it boosts your anatomy knowledge now that you're actually more directed and focused (ie surgery intern to be).

 

[Espion]

sounds like a supreme waste of time and waste of a cadaver.

So what would a good use of a cadaver be? They donated their bodies to science to further knowledge...and that's my aim. To augment my anatomical knowledge on a more practical level.

And thank you so much for your brilliant assessment. Let's compare ROL's, shall we?** I don't think I could get through my intern year without your dazzling intellect.



**Ha! This is what I get for trying too hard on the internet. Methinks you are quite past that. Oh well.

 

[surg]

We had a similar class when I was a 4th year except that it was taught by the surgery attendings and residents. These are the things I remember doing.

Things to practice so you get a feel for it.
Things you might use intern year
Putting in central lines. Then dissect out the vessels to see the depth and relationship of the vessels to other structures. Do femoral, IJ, and subclavian.
Needling the chest and putting in a chest tube. Then split the sternum to check placement and depth
Inguinal anatomy, this is actually a pretty difficult thing to visualize until you do it. Be sure to do it from an anterior approach and a preperitoneal approach.
Tracheostomy and difficult surgical assisted airway techniques (cricothyroidotomy, retrograde intubation)
Pericardial windows
Dissect out the arm veins and radial arteries in preparation for lines

Other things worth doing
Mobilize all the viscera.
Take out the spleen
Dissect out the axilla
Tie the mesenteric vessels
Tie under tension
Any operation you are interested in.

One thing to do NOW:
Make friends with the ICU nurses and Scrub nurses to ask them to save supplies for you(e.g. unused but opened GIA staplers, central line kits, suture, needle drivers that are being tossed, etc.) You should strive to do your 4th year dissection with proper tools. You'll be amazed at how much better you are at it then when you were doing it as a 1st yr

 

[SLUser11]

So what would a good use of a cadaver be? They donated their bodies to science to further knowledge...and that's my aim. To augment my anatomical knowledge on a more practical level.

And thank you so much for your brilliant assessment. Let's compare ROL's, shall we?** I don't think I could get through my intern year without your dazzling intellect.



**Ha! This is what I get for trying too hard on the internet. Methinks you are quite past that. Oh well.

Maybe where you go to med school, there's alot more dead bodies laying around, but the way you describe your elective, at least in the original post, makes it sound like a waste. ONE student, no real learning objectives, just an opportunity to open her up and GO NUTS!

Of course, I don't know the whole story. Still, you sound like a b#@ch with your "let's compare ROLs" comeback to Doc05 (you're a girl I'm guessing, otherwise you sounded like an a@@hole). I wouldn't give you my dead body, but good luck anyway.

 

[Espion]

Maybe where you go to med school, there's alot more dead bodies laying around, but the way you describe your elective, at least in the original post, makes it sound like a waste. ONE student, no real learning objectives, just an opportunity to open her up and GO NUTS!

Of course, I don't know the whole story. Still, you sound like a b#@ch with your "let's compare ROLs" comeback to Doc05 (you're a girl I'm guessing, otherwise you sounded like an a@@hole). I wouldn't give you my dead body, but good luck anyway.

Fellow students going into orthopedic surgery will be taking the joints and such. Future ENTs have the head and neck.

I'm developing my own learning objectives. I don't need someone to spell them out for me. I was just asking for suggestions mostly because someone might have thought of something that I hadn't. That's all, yo.

Hey man, that was a semi-good comeback! Not very intelligent of me, but then again, "fighting" on the internet never is. You have to admit that your initial comments were perhaps a little uncalled for, but hey, say what you want. 'tis a free internet. (At least I think it still is. I should probably check FoxNews to be sure. )


Anyway, thanks surg for the great suggestions!

 

[MRF1366]

We had the same elective (which I of course took advantage of). And as a rule, the cadavers given to us were the ones deemed unfit for 1st year gross anatomy class. For example, many had cancer with bulky or metastatic disease. Others were amputees, or vasculopaths with fem-pops or other grafts. Not so good for 1st years to learn- but ok (to an extent) for a 4th year elective meant to allow independent study.

Actually, the first cadaver I got was unusable due to a huge cecal mass which had perfed. Not pretty. The second cadaver I got was s/p Bilroth 2, which worked out just fine for me.

My point is- there's no such thing as a "wasted" cadaver. Any university that procurs cadavers will have a cache of bodies available, which were unfit for gross lab, but still provide great learning tools.