Discussion in 'Pre-Medical Allopathic [ MD ]' started by khjb007, 10.19.06.
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I wouldn't assume such a person earned $300k every year -- salaries tend to rise with seniority, and 70's income was a little different than today. But people's expenses tend to rise as their income levels rise, so that kind of income may be necessary to maintain a certain lifestyle. If you live in a big house, have multiple children in college, or maybe have legal expenses, alimony, family health expenses, bad investments and the like, you may not be able to retire even assuming arguendo such a longterm high income.
Additionally, if you are the kind of person with the drive to be a neurosurgeon, you are very likely to become bored in retirement. There's only so much golfing you can do before you go stir crazy. Someone with such drive will want to keep their hand in the game as long as they are capable.
I hate Law2Doc with a passion, but he's right...
that's why I want to go in to Rads
I hate that bastard, Law2Doc, as well but I second your opinion. He's totally right.
One surgeon explained it to me also in terms of why surgeons work long hours. He was saying that surgeons often think "you know, if I fit in one more surgery a week, I'd be able to get another Benz"
Well I know 2 orthopedic surgeons (married) who claim they are still paying off their medical school loans - they have been finished w/their residencies since 1998! They drive average cars, but have a huge mortgage, lots of bills - kids to put through college.... Law2Doc said it. The more money you make, the more expenses you accrue. Plus, surgeons have longer residency time. That means more years of getting paid $40k than someone who did a 2 or 3 year residency.
Maybe because they went into medicine for the purpose of making a diffrence in someone's life and not so much because of the money like others....
^^ self-righteous posts such as this makes me wanna vomit last night's vomit...
And certain things posted on this board make those of us that have experienced life a little bit chuckle.
the height of your horse will make your fall even more amusing
It seems there are folks with reason to be annoyed at you. I've usually found your posts to be reasonable. Any comment?
I agree with a combo of everything said in this thread thus far. Part of it is debt still not paid, part of it is probably to do with what law2doc was explaining, and yet part of it is probably because people would get bored at home.
In other words, to put Ed's post another way, its not so much altruisism so much as the fact that money is meaningless if you have nothing to keep your mind stimulated and occupy your time. After awhile sitting around at home can get boring.
I told this story on here before, but a few months back a friend told me the story of a family doctor who is at least 80 and still going strong at it. Why?? He tried retirement by buying a yatch and going around and he found out very quickly he was bored and that it wasn't as fun as it sounded. Oh and he got sea sick quickly.
So don't assume that sitting in a lap of material luxury with nothing to do is the best kind of life.
Wait, so you are saying (OP) that everyone's goal in life should be business and money, and medicine is just another means by which to realize said goal? Thats kinda a ****ty way to look at medicine. Additionally, there are football players making millions that go bankrupt. Doesnt matter how much you bring in, what matters is the speed at which it goes back out.
WAIT!! HOLD THE PRESSES! people get JOBS to make MONEY? WHATTTT?????????????????????? Holy crap! This is complete news to me!
Cue L2D "medicine is not a job it is a way of life and in no way can money be more than a minor motivator" blurb.
rich is a vague term, surgeons have to sacrifice some precious years of their lives, ie if you're a med student from 24-28 then 28-33 you'll be doing your surgical residency ie busting your ass day in and day out (and making **** for money) and then maybe 32-36 learning a subspecialty... so you'll be 37 before the bills start rolling in and your youth, 20s, and most of your 30s will be gone...
so my point is that those people really like what they do, and thus continue to do it for the rest of their career....
Yeah I can't imagine choosing surgery if you are not the type who gets strung out on the scalpel (to use Gray's Anatomy's wonderful description). If you aren't deeply fulfilled by your 80-100 hour workweek, I doubt having a bunch of money to play with in your meager time off would really make up for that. I mean, sure you could wear really nice clothes on rounds/clinics, drive a really nice car to and from your 36 hour shifts, fall asleep halfway thru a movie on your nice plasma screen, and take a few killer vacations . . . but if you weren't really into what you were doing with the majority of your waking hours I don't think these things could make up for that. If I choose surgery (on the assumption that I somehow manage to be brilliant over the next few years, which is currently unlikely, though I'm certainly trying) it will because it exhilerates me and I can't wait to be in the hospital with a scalpel in hand, not because I will make more every year than in another specialty. If its about the money I'd take ER, 200k for 36 hours a week . . . .yeah its less money but you actually have the time to enjoy the money you do have.
Yes this is obvious. The money is part of everyone's decision to go into medicine. To say that as soon as you have money you should quit, start up a business, and sit around getting wealthier for the rest of your life rather than working at the career that you spent at least 11 years of education post-secondary pursuing is quite different, though.
Why is it so hard to believe that some people just aren't as concerned about the money as others? Of course I want to make enough to be comfortable, save up for a nice retirement, and send my kids to college, but I'm just not the type of person who you'll ever see driving around in a Benz. Besides, my fiance is going to be making pretty good money, so I don't feel this need to be raking in the bucks. I chose medicine because I think it will be fulfilling and I won't spend the rest of my working years forcing myself to get out of bed every morning to go to a job I hate. If anything, I would say I care much more about the respect doctors get than the money they make.
Both you and TPR posted good posts!!!
I can honestly say that even though there are millionaires (where I grew up) that were rich from business ownerships and others that were rich from being doctors, its the doctors that got more respect because of their higher level of education.
While these aren't the reasons I'm going into medicine and its more about doing something I want to do that I could see myself doing for the rest of my life, I can honestly tell you that most others I know from where I come from and also among the desi community around where I currently live feel that educational levels are more important then the wealth you garner from medicine making it the more respected field of the two.
If you're a doctor like Dr. Christian Troy, who needs money? All you need is enough to buy someone a drink, a nice car, and a few good suits.
Getting divorced costs a lot of money... and as a surgeon with a 80-100 hours week you go through that at least once, if not even more.
I thought law2doc was a female.
I want to be a doctor for a longer time then I was a student.
Why the haterade for Law2doc? Other than from Sacrament (and from my humble and unassuming blog, of course) you will not get better advice on what it all means and how it works.
So they should retire......and do what? Maybe they like their jobs? Maybe they find the idea of sitting at home and watching Montel and playing bingo or golf to be BO-RING, when they could be in the OR. I've got an anatomy professor who's been on the faculty for 59 years. I'm sure he's not doing it for the money at this point, because he's not on the payroll!
They're jumping on the bandwagon. L2D is probably one of the best members here, and somebody started chugging haterade apparently.
Ah, dogs returning to their vomit.
Law2Doc is a mysterious poster, that's for sure. L2D seems to be a real smart person with strong opinions, which some people are mistaking for fact. He's a mysterious sage that I agree with most of the time. He is a non-traditional applicant that has a better perspective on this application process than most of us and I like to hear his thoughts.
But I am curious, Is he applying for this year? Did he just start this year? I'm also curious about which fields he's interested in.
See my previous posts. I'll 3rd or 4th the sentiment that Law2Doc is an annoying, pompous, arrogant poster that thinks he/she knows everything. It's probably the law background. While I don't dislike her/him enough to "hate," i'll just say he/she is the only poster on these boards that stands out in this way in my eyes---besides trolls.
Not sure but I think Law2Doc applied to med school either last year or this year (?) and she's been accepted to the University of Oklahoma (MD). Of course, one would expect a/an lawyer/attorney to have such a brilliant thinking process and writing style. Don't they teach that in law school anyway?
Brilliant? You just fueled the ego.
I'm not disputing he/she writes well, but the demeanor and attitude behind his/her words is very irritating and abrasive. The sad thing is, I don't think Law2Doc is trying to be that way, it just comes naturally. See any number of Law2Doc's 5000+ posts if you have any doubt about this.
It's the damn government. They take all your money.
I think you have law2doc mixed up with exlawgirl. I think law2doc is male and I enjoy reading his posts because he probably gives the best advice on these forums.
I'd agree w/that.
Not to mention the wisdom of age & experience. Younger people don't always like hearing the truth. Or at least, good, sound common sense advise.
I'm not young and I still find Law2Doc annoying.
When you guys say things like this it makes me think "damn they are like 50+yrs old!
Yeah, well-reasoned posts piss me off too.
Someone could have the most valuable and logical advice in the world but if he acted like an arrogant know-it-all in delivering it, I would be pissed off.
Enough money to be comfortable: 60k/year
Save up for a nice retirement: 20k/year
Sending kids to college: 40k/kid
A fiance who is gonna bring home the bacon: priceless
There are some things money can't buy, for everything else, there's mastercard.
also, i knew u didnt wanna get a benz... i could tell that ur much more into BMWs
A few comments:
-you can effectively deduct about 50% of their income for taxes.
-they weren't always making that much. it takes about 5 years in practice to get to full income level
-some doctors practice into retirement age because they can't do anything else.
-neurosurgeons have a shorter professional life due to eventual loss of required fine motor skills.
-it takes a hefty amount of money to have a secure retirement. Many docs are poorly educated about planning for retirement and have to work longer than they probably needed to if they had better financial savvy.
-kids, houses, and divorces suck up money.
-there is a strong keep up with the joneses mentality in the upper middle class, and docs are among the worst, from what I've seen.
Elaborate a bit, if you dont mind.
Separate names with a comma.