Surgery or EM from a small caribbean school?

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
H

hardboiled

Junior Member
10+ Year Member
15+ Year Member
20+ Year Member
Joined
Jul 10, 2000
Messages
10
Reaction score
0
Alot of the alumni listed with caribbean schools go into family practice. I can not tell if this is becouse these residencys are less competitve or becouse There is a general greater interest. When I graduate I wont to work in Emergency Medicine. I chose the caribbean becouse I can graduate sooner, but if I cant do what I want then I might as well stay in the US and apply to a US school ( spacificial I will be going to Spartan)
Members don't see this ad.
 
Dude,

If you don't improve your English, you will not be able to graduate Medical school at all. (Provided you get in!!!!!)
 
why would you go Carribean? You have to know how much that hurts you in getting a US residency in *any* specialty-- and a hyper competitive residency like surg? Snowball in hell, my friend.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
Not so fast with those snowball in hell comments. Saba University, St. George, Ross, all have graduates in surgery residencies. Is it harder to get in? Sure. But every semester Saba logs surgery and emergency residencies to it's credit. There is an uninformed bias out there. The truth is a different story. How many foreign grad neurosurgeons do you find in NYC? Ever been there? You're hard pressed to find an American grad. Get the facts first hand. Contact alumni yourself from the Caribbean schools to get the truth. I am a Saba student, confident of landing a surgical position. Gook luck.
 
I agree that you better brush up on your english, but you can get what you want with a bit of work. I went to ross and now I'm in an ER residency in the states. A couple of my fellow ross grads got both ER and surgery as well as ortho residencies in the states. Is it easy? Probably not, but it can be done. I work with US grads as well as grads from St Georges Ross and a guy from SABA. We are all on an even playing field, and you cannot tell which ones of us graduated from a US school or are FMG's. Snowball's chance in hell? That is what I thought before I tried, but now that I am a resident, and loving life, I guess I'm one tough snowball!
DRC
 
Isn't Spartan (in St.Lucia) the one with the Geocities web page? Have you visited it? If they cannot even afford a domain name I would be very curious as to what their facilities consist of. (Maybe a Cabana and a gurney?)
 
Where is the moderator!!!!
If you are going to allow this type of rhetoric to be spewed on the SDN site than we need different moderators!!!!

[This message has been edited by Sherry (edited 08-11-2000).]
 
Please refrain from using obscenities. The post in question has been deleted.

You are free to express any opinions, regardless of their validity... but please do not use profanity on this site.

[This message has been edited by medicalstudent.net (edited 08-11-2000).]
 
Thank you very much.
 
this entire discussion is seriously one sided.......Carribean medical schools are notorious...in part because many were granting degrees without any training for any one with the right amount of money.

I can not personally make this this totalization for all schools in the carribean, however it is a widely held opinion that carribean medical schools are not held to the same standards that their american counterparts are..theres a reason Ross U is not listed amongst the ivy league..while alot of grads are FMG's..they tend to come from european and asian medical schools...which while not identical to US standard, are located in nations with significant laws regulating medical education and licensure....a residency director can be rather sure that swiss and german medical students....assuring fluency in english....atleast have been held to some sort of benchmark standard...yes some carribean grads end up in us residencies.....but I would be willing to guess that this is more due to desperation to fill spots than belief in their competency

in short don't wait by the phone for your call from Johns hopkins
 
Mike,
Your post just goes to prove how ignorant you truly are. As a grad from an FMG in the carribean and a person who interviewed at the Mayo clinic, Cleveland Clinic and NYU for IM I think I can speak on the topic. While it is true that not all Foreign medical schools are maintained to the high standards set by the LCME, some are. As a resident in EM and a FMG I find myself a most awkward position. I listen to all the US grads comment on how this particular program only has FMG's in its IM residency and laugh. I have ms-III and IV working under me and they all have no clue where I graduated from. You think that they would think less of me if they know I was from Ross? Or do you think they just wish they were in a EM residency like I already am? Someone once said that ignorance is bliss, but in your case, it is just a disgrace.
DRC
 
It seems that many of you are missing the BIG PICTURE in the domestic vs FMG's.
The general public is becoming more aware of their Physicians qualifications (or lack of).
Most state licensing agencies have some type of public information so you can find out where the doc attended medical school and it is common knowledge (to the general public) that diplomas can be PURCHASED, NOT EARNED from certain medical schools. (Ross, Saba, St. George). I would NEVER see a doctor who "graduated" from one of these schools. In fact, I refused to let a vet see my dog who was a graduate of Ross.
All of this along with the fact that you must get your ECFMG certificate and states have different licensing requirements for FMG's (more residency training). You are not saving any money at all, in the long run it will cost you more!!!

It seems that many of you are missing the BIG PICTURE in the domestic vs FMG's.
The general public is becoming more aware of their Physicians qualifications (or lack of).
Most state licensing agencies have some type of public information so you can find out where the doc attended medical school and it is common knowledge (to the general public) that diplomas can be PURCHASED, NOT EARNED from certain medical schools. (Ross, Saba, St. George). I would NEVER see a doctor who "graduated" from one of these schools. In fact, I refused to let a vet see my dog who was a graduate of Ross.
All of this along with the fact that you must get your ECFMG certificate and states have different licensing requirements for FMG's (more residency training). You are not saving any money at all, in the long run it will cost you more!!!


Originally posted by Detroit Rock City:
Mike,
Your post just goes to prove how ignorant you truly are. As a grad from an FMG in the carribean and a person who interviewed at the Mayo clinic, Cleveland Clinic and NYU for IM I think I can speak on the topic. While it is true that not all Foreign medical schools are maintained to the high standards set by the LCME, some are. As a resident in EM and a FMG I find myself a most awkward position. I listen to all the US grads comment on how this particular program only has FMG's in its IM residency and laugh. I have ms-III and IV working under me and they all have no clue where I graduated from. You think that they would think less of me if they know I was from Ross? Or do you think they just wish they were in a EM residency like I already am? Someone once said that ignorance is bliss, but in your case, it is just a disgrace.
DRC
Click to expand...

 
The bigger picture is that many IMGs are just as competent of physicians as are their US counterparts, and in some respects excel often them. Granted, there are also IMGs who are less competent than them.
Even so, to broadbrush a whole class of individuals on the basis of some less competent ones in their class is not only erroneous in logic and communication, but irresponsible and a displaying of what in reality is largely fickle bias apart from knowledge.

The assertion that SGU, Ross, and Saba sell diplomas has at this point absolutely no basis whatsoever in fact. I know of not one official contention in this count of a graduate of one of those schools not making it honestly through the curriculum there amidst much hard work--in some cases, with actually more hard work and perserverance than at a U.S. school.

~10 years ago there were three schools that more or less were diploma mills in the Dominican Republic who were shut down by CONES, the educational authority there. And only a very small figure of people who were already PAs, DPMs and the like were able to make passage of the USMLEs after getting advanced standing from them on the basis of former coursework at PA or DPM school. Which brings me to another point.

How can the assertion be made, more or less, that IMGs are not even worthy to be seen when each one has had to pass the exact same tests that any US medical graduate has had to pass, the USMLEs. Granted, these are only tests, but they are nonetheless whoppers as tests go. So those IMGs who do not make it honestly through a real medical curriculum have a BIG problem awaiting them the USMLEs. And how can one make passage of these without true knowledge of the subject matter?

 
Members don't see this ad :)
Being a person who works PROFESSIONALLY verifying credentials for obtaining state licensure, I can assure you this is NOT a blanket statement made out of IGNORANCE!

how can one make passage of these without true knowledge of the subject matter?

[/B][/QUOTE]

 
So you are saying specifically that you have had situations where applicants with ECFMG certification to your state's medical board presented diplomas which had verifiably been purchased from SGU, Ross, and Saba?
 
Juan,
Since I work in the emergency department most of my patients do not have the time to check my credentials before I treat them, I guess I'm lucky in that regard becuase it doesn't give people like you the option to ask for another doctor. You say that you work for a state licensing comittee? If this is the case why don't you look and see how the FMG's(degree purchasing) scored on their usmleI and II. Look in ER and I'll guarantee that the mean board score is higher. Do you think we bought the test as well? And, if we were so cunning to be able to buy a degree as well as board scores, what makes you think that we would not be able to buy a license from a lowly civil servant such as yourself?
I was just curious.
DRC
 
Originally posted by Juan Moore:
In fact, I refused to let a vet see my dog who was a graduate of Ross.
Click to expand...

Did your dog work for that degree or did he simply purchase it?

[This message has been edited by GeoLeoX (edited 08-24-2000).]
 
I am curious...all of you who are so defensive about coming from a foreign med school, was your school your first choice? If not, why are you there? Maybe the answer to this question will clear things up.
 
US ctizens who go a broad for medical school tend to fall into these categories.

--Those who for the most part or without doubt qualified for entrance into a US med school, but simply because of the limited slots were unsuccesful, sometimes after even repeated attempts

--Those who were not up to par to US med school admissions standards, for whatever reason(s), but who were nevertheless given the chance to prove themselves to become physicians

--Those who may or may not have been successful in gaining US med school admission but, for whatever reason(s), simply did not want to go through the rig-a-ma-roll of the US med school admissions process; so they simply applied to where it was easier and worked hard to get back home

--Those who wanted an international experience in medical education, and then worked hard to get back to the US to offer their frequently bi-cultural/bilingual and qualities

--Those who do not wish to practice in the US, and so train in a context or contexts more comparable to the one(s) wherein they will practice. These usually go to indigenous foreign medical schools styled for practice within the regins of its locale

I hope I have fairly depicted all these and have not missed any, and that this info is useful.
 
I find it so interesting that many of you are so critical of Foreign medical schools. What ever happend to "each to their own?" Why is it that these FMG's can do just as well and be just as successful in their educations and their careers as the students from US schools and yet, be criticized for their decisions? Yes, I am a student at a Foreign medical school, and I have YET to see favortism. As a matter of fact, we have many students who flunk classes because they can't keep up with the caliber of them. Just a side note. If people are prooving themselves to be quite capable...what's the problem?
 
According to the ACGME only about 2% of EM physicians in the US are IMGs, while a relatively larger percentage of general surgeons are foreign-trained. If you go to an Island school, you'd probably have an easier time coming back a general surgeon than an EM physician.

Tim of New York City.
 
this is about the most one sided and ludicrous conversation that I have ever heard in my life....1st- to even attempt to promote the equivalence of carribean grads to other IMG's is a great insult to many fine grads of european and asian medical schools is an insult.....Then to make the amazing claim that Ross grads are better than US grads....makes me doubt the sanity of people posting on this page..I will be more than willing to stick my neck out and make the blanket statement that not one graduate of your medical school is anywhere nearly as skilled as even the bottom of the class at such schools as harvard, hopkins, columbia and the like..yes carribean grads are able to obtain US internships.....but not because of their amazing intelligence...instead because of a gross oversupply of internships with regard to available residency slots and with regards to physicians.....yes many carribean grads are able to pass the USMLE....but im sure the pass rate is probably significantly lower than american medical schools......and please spare us the trouble of posting some bogus number that says otherwise because I know by this point you are already fabricating one

The gist of this is that I have never met a qualified and talented applicant who despite repeated attempts to apply to medical school was forced to go elsewhere.....I have met a few marginal candidates and numerous mediocre candidates who have had to take this route....and the funny thing about medicrity is that it tends to perpetuate itself
 
Mike,
If you want to see the #'s from ross grads on USMLE I and II go to the ross homepage. www.rossmed.edu Perhaps you are correct. Everyone from ross is a *****, myself included. If that helps you sleep at night..... What school did you go to? what residency did you get? I believe that ross graduates some people who probably should not graduate, but that is what the USMLE is for. It is intended to ensure that everyone who passes is capable of suceeding in medicine. Isn't that the point of a licensing exam? Maybe you should take this argument up with the AMA and LCME, not with the fmg's who did what they had to do to practice medicine in this country.
DRC
 
Originally posted by MikeS 78:
1st- to even attempt to promote the equivalence of carribean grads to other IMG's is a great insult to many fine grads of european and asian medical schools is an insult.
Click to expand...

Mike, I understand where you are coming from, but some students from a few of these Carribean schools are indeed equivilent to such other IMGs. A doc, no matter where he or she is from, is not the sum total of the school he or she heralds from. Which brings me to my second point.
....Then to make the amazing claim that Ross grads are better than US grads....makes me doubt the sanity of people posting on this page.
Click to expand...

My experience indicates that in the factor of being able to put up with plain 'ol suffering to obtain a desired goal, and in the qualities needed to do this, some Ross grads do indeed outshine some US grads. This is not to say anything good or bad about either Ross or any US schools or any of their grads, but to simply report an observation.
[/B][/QUOTE]
but im sure the pass rate is probably significantly lower than american medical schools.
Click to expand...
It sure is in most cases, which is just the nature of the case and is realted primarly to admissions standards, admissions standards, and admisisons standards. The higher these go, the higher the USMLE stend to go. By the way, as a point of actual fact--this is not bogus, but from the USMLE folks themselves--St. George's U in Grenada in some recent terms had higher USMLE passing rates than one of the US schools, which one I don't recall. Not suprisingly, SGU has the highest admissions standards of all the Carrib schools.

My main message in this is this: don't broadbrush a whole class of people based upon real or imagined poor qualities found among some of their class. View people as individuals, and their cases the same. Because some of the prettiest flowers, and sweetest fruit become that way through a relentless struggle to grow, even under less than ideal conditions.

Thanks for hearing me out.
 
did what they had to do?????

it scares me that people have this attitude of medicine at all costs......one has to be bright to be a physician....not a mensa president per se....but rather intelligent.....and the simple fact is that some people should not be allowed to be physicians...not because they are eveil people.....but because they simply are not bright enough and it scares me that some of these people are leaving the country in the desperate hope of finding a loop hole in the very system that was set up to filter them out....i do not know you and you may be a fine physician for all i know....however i fear for our profession's future....so beleagered with bad press regarding physician accidents and malpractice...as many unqualified people find ways to sneak into what is intended to be a meritocratic system

and FYI I will not name drop as you so tactlessly did in you pseudo-CV....But I have spent quite a bit of time in various places in the Ivy league ....and am quite intimately acquainted with the circle of willis
 
When you guys refer to not being accepted into a US medical school, are you guys including osteopathic or just refering to US allopathic schools? Just curious.
 
well think about it....while I have a few issues with osteopathic medical ed...i would gladly go there years before i would go to the caribbean to study medicine
 
MikeS 78,

What types of issues do you have against osteopathic education. This is the field i am interested in, so i'm curious about any info that i may not know about.
 
I am curious to know your thoughts on established foreign med schools. I am asking because you post a lot on these boards and I'd like to see what sort info you come up with.
 
I will answer both questions

1) my problem with osteopathic med is not a philosophical one but a social one
a) osteopathic med gained its respect by becoming more like allopathic medicine, thus I see little point in the difference
b) this deals with the first objection that will be raised....the primary differences people between the two raise are becoming increasingly trivial and the people who most vehemently defend the osteopathic philosophy (ie premeds and EMT's in my experience) tend to be the people with the least background to know the difference
-I have never heard a legitimate defense for the idea of the Musculoskeletal system being the center of human health
-I find the idea of "holistic" medicine in an age when the core necessary books for one subspecialty could fill a small room, to be utterly preposterous....
c) the result of all this is a school that looks like an allopathic school, smells like an allopathic school, but that tend to not be as prestigious as allopath schools and that frequently leaves its students with huge debts
d) hence I do not see why the distinction persists, why some DO aspiring premeds attack anything that questions this idea they have so wholeheartedly bought into,

2) as for the second question let me start by dividing FMG's into two groups

1) FMG's that went to schools in europe asia or the like, such as japanese, swiss, german, russian, english etc
2) FMG's from the caribbean and other US pressure valve outlets

type 1 FMG's tend to be the best and brightest in their respective countries and barring a language barrier they tend to quite capable doctors

type 2 tends to consist of people who were desperate to become docs but werent good enough to make it into US schools (I doubt anyone goes to the carribean schools just for the beach)....the majority of people in the medical community are aware of this fact as well as the notoriety these schools have for not holding their students to the high standards that most US schools do
 
Originally posted by MikeS 78:

2) as for the second question let me start by dividing FMG's into two groups

1) FMG's that went to schools in europe asia or the like, such as japanese, swiss, german, russian, english etc

2) FMG's from the caribbean and other US pressure valve outlets
Click to expand...

The categorizing is simply not broad enough, and as such, is unfair. I suggest the follwing which is more to the case:

CASE 1

1A. Nationals from the medical schools of their well developed countries who are here for what ever reasons

1B. Nationals from the medical schools of their less than developed countries who are the best and brightest of their respective class and who have come to the US for PG traiing to then improve leves of care in their countries

1C. Those the same as above except they come and stay

1D. Those who were doctor in their home countries but had to flee from political and other oppression (or worse) and, thanks to US laws, had a way to once again practice medicine again

CASE 2

2A. US ciitizens who were qualified in most every respect for entrance into a US medical school but because of sheer number of applicants fell through the cracks, and who went abroad for their med edu rather than alter their course. In most respects, these are equal to their US med grad counterparts, and sometimes excel them in usually non-medical areas (e.g., language, transculturation), but occasionaly even medically when they have gone to top foreign medical schools (e.g., Western Europe, Japan, etc.)

2B. US citizens who WERE NOT qualified to enter US med school, but attained entrance into a higher quality foreign med school and through hard work and character excelled and in most respects, are equal to their US med grad counterparts

2C. US citizens who WERE NOT qualified to enter US med school, but attained entrance into a less than quality foreign med school and through hard work and character excelled and in most respects despite their school, and are, for the most part, equal to their US med grad counterparts

2D. US citizens who WERE NOT qualified to enter US med school, but attained entrance into a less than quality foreign med school, eeked by and somehow made it through all the bottlenecks (e.g., USMLEs), and are appreciably less than equal to their US med grad counterparts which may be cause for concern

There are probably other ones, but this should open this more.

Thanks for hearing me out.
 
my claim is that there really arent many of 2a-c

most people who dont get into med school in the US don't head over to europe...there are a few im sure.....but in a similiar fashion as the US schools, european schools tend to be very unreceptive to foreign students....

I also feel that a broad definition of competent is also necessary to classify many docs as "good" there are alot of graduates of US schools who are just plain bad...and US schools are significantly more difficult than schools in the carribean

finally, theoretically we could expand our classification schema to include any possible permutation of human being who has the words foreign and medical doctor in their biography, however many of these groups would be so specific as to primarily overlap with most other groups, and thus would be the same group
 
This thread has gone way too far. I started it before I left and now I am almost done the the first semester. Too say it broadly I have seen every thing between two extremes in the students who go to the caribbean schools. Some who have such a strong character and schoolastic record that they could have practical choosen which school they went to , anywhere, but they went to the caribbean for "the beach". I have also seen some real scumbags who are there only to pass time. The fact is that tose who should be physicians will and those who shouldnt will not make it, they wont pass the USMLE exams and thats the end of it. If a person passes the exams than dont worry about it. They did it becouse they are just as good as any one else, in fact better than most becouse they made it through medical school in a third world country, which is much harder to do than getting into a US medical school. So I have found the answer to my original question, which by the way was not pertaning to how skilled IMGS are but what type of jobs they get.
-please dont waste any more time on this topic writing about your personel opions on where peolple go to medical school.
 
Hey, Mike, I really wasn't intending to "bait" you but since you did "bite" I will respond to your posts. I will start by saying it is a real shame you share your narrowsightedness as if it were the real truth. Too bad for you that you have never really checked your facts before posting here. To those of us who know better, you sound like a real dumb@#$. I hope you survive med school long enough to meet face to face with some FINE foreign(Caribbean) grads up in NY. I would love to see the look/fear in your eyes when you finally realize that you are no better then them; actually, probably much less capable. Good luck, Shmuck!! You will need it to survive in the REAL world!

PS
Save your drivel for those who don't know any better.
 
Why do we waste our breath (or energy at the keyboard) on Mike S? It's obvious that NO ONE except a graduate from a US allopathic school will meet his approval.

Forget about the fact that, as many have pointed out, the AMA has set numerous requirements to be met by anyone graduating from a foreign medical school before they are allowed to even enter a residency, much less get a full license and practice.

We all know (except Mike, that is) that anyone who can pass the USMLE (usually having to achieve a *higher* grade than a US grad to be considered for an equivalent position) and the Clinical Skills Assessment is fit to practice in the US. As DRC (?) pointed out, you can't BUY your test results from the USMLE folks, so they must be valid. Which means that those foreign educated students either learned the material at their respective schools (in class) or on their own - sufficient to achieve that necessary, higher level. And if foreign schools suck so much, as Mike says, that says even MORE for these students - it says that they have the determination and intellectual capacity to do it, most likely because they have the desire to be physicians (or they wanna make a lot of money - which is a whole 'nother topic!).

So I think we should all stop responding to Mike - who knows, maybe if we ignore him, he'll just go away... Besides, what's he doing reading international posts if he's so anti-international?
 
Hi DW! Are you currently attending UAG? What year are you in and how do you like it so far? Have you given a lot of thought as to what field you want to end up in? I have a friend who just graduated from UAG and is now in his first year of residency at UTMB in Galveston,TX.
 
Man, you go away for a while and this is what happens. Figured I'd let you know, and I know mike would love to hear this, but I'm doing my peds rotation here as part of the pgy-1 EM program and working with all US grads. Pretty impressive for a peds program to have only US Doc's ( there are IMG and FMG's but not on my floor) I guess there education was far superior to mine because they always come up and ask me for help. Since I do not resemble a FMG they openly bash FMG's in front of me because it is "impossible for the foreigners to get any competitive residency. It is the people like mike who made me work as hard as I did in order to be able to put the people like mike in their place. Hope you go for EM bud, 'cause I'd sure love to interview you!!!!!
 
OK i had grown tired of arguing in the face of hardly generalizable anecdotal evidence (ie detroit rock), pure trash talking with no discussion of any their points whatsoever (ie girlMD) and a generalized automaton undertone that tends to thrive in discussion groups where everyone is of identical opinion with no dissenters

several questions
1) I have never heard of a PGY-1 position that provided the intern with enough time to argue on the internet...usually interns have a hard enough time getting enough sleep...all the doctors in my family have told me of 100-120 hour work weeks..an uncle of mine said during 3 seperate weeks he left the hospital for less than 6 hours during the whole week...interesting that someone at an academic powerhouse such as the one you claim has so much time on their hands that they can worry about someone's opinion regarding your background
2) im interested girlMD in how you "baited" me...or what was this trap I stepped into.....typically a rhetorical trap requires one to make two contradictory statements unwittingly, or to say something that weakens my argument....when first reading your post, i had initially thought you had some amazing argument but was thoroughly disappointed when all you had to tell me was "You Suck and you're wrong"...if you want give me your email and I will help coach you through this difficult time in your rhetorical life

however what brings me back to this trainwreck of a discussion....is the insane remark that is quite reflective of the odd opinion on this page...that anyone who can pass the USMLE is by definition a good doc...in fact that they all are equal.....the USMLE is a written test....but last time i checked people werent cured by marking circles on a scantron sheet...yes if one is dilligent enough one can cram enough facts to pass a test with a very high pass rate (I don't remember the exact figure but I think 80% or so people pass on their 1st try)...however not a single step of the USMLE has a practical portion...not one.....and the biggest flaw in all these arguemtnts is that they all neglect that the primary difference between the good the bad and the ugly in the medical school world are the clinical experiences at these schools...so infer that any school in the caribean has even 1/4 of the clinical facilities and opportunities seen at a top notch institution such as hopkins, harvard, etc is JUST SILLY...sorry to tell you but places with alot of money have the best faculty, the best facilities and equipment....and hence the best clinical environment.......yes anyone with a book can pass the USMLE but not everyone who passes will make a legit doc

and for future reference its awful hard to convince anyone of anything when you ditch structuring arguments for making personal attacks
 
Mike,
Your last post just proves how clueless you really are. Are you rotating in hospitals yet? I highly doubt it because if you were you would know that only the surgery residents pull the hours that all the doc's in your family did. EM in the first year, at least here is alot like a transitional year. One month here, one month there. This month Peds, q4 call schedule, otherwise 7:30 to 4. I guess I'm just not as slow as you because I can find the time to post on this board. Your ignorance into the lives of residency seems to be only one of the many things that you are sorely lacking in. God help the people of the lovely state of Oklahoma. It ( oklahoma) has produced many fine M.D.s that I know and respect, unfortunately, I fear, you are not one of them
 
Oops, I almost forgot. You question the quality of the school based on it's clinical facilities? I guess you have got me on that because ross doesn't have it's own clinical facilities. We just roate with the US students at their hospitals. I'll send along your feelings to turtleboard. I did 2 core rotations and my EM elective at Kings county medical center, the main clinical site for SUNY Downstate Heath Sciences Center in Brooklyn. Other students from ross as well as St Georges rotate with US students at the US student's clinical site. I guess we are all getting an inferior education to you. I'll send that along to the Hopkin's buds I met when I was down in maryland, rotating at one of their hospitals.
One further point,
we interviewed someone yesterday from a school in the mid-atlantic who accepted a transfer from ross. I spoke to the candidate and asked him if he knew this partiucular person. He said that everyone knew him because he showed exceptional clinical skills and was excellent at integrating the clinical info with the book info.
In my humble opinion, that is what makes a good clinician.
 
ignorance to the lives of residency?????

I could go across the street and take a poll of the medicine residents but I'm pretty sure most of them work some pretty impressive hours certainly not a mere 9-5 as a pgy-1, I've even heard of people in radiology putting in a good 80-100/wk and radiology is known as the king of lifestyle specialities....i mean they didnt make a law in ny limiting residency hours to 80 because people were going home at noon


But of course I and the rest of the people I know in the medical profession are wrong. ross is certainly a wonderful school.....and its graduates welcomed around the world....consistently listed among the worlds best one cannot read the literature and not hear about ross's groundbreaking research.....or about ross' brillant faculty.....Academic powerhouses are litered with CV's that have ross listed in the education section...but thats what you would expect with ross graduates literally pouring into the best residencies as have testified to us......it makes sense since academic powerhouses tend to go for graduates of the type of prestigious residencies that ross is a virtual funnel into

of course a school of this calliber would have to be a battle to get in.....the students would be the best and brightest the US had to offer....with hundreds of more applicants than spots

Because of course no one on this page would dare give an inaccurate biased account
 
Mike,
I guess we are going to have to agree to disagree. I never stated that ross produced the finest MD's in the world nor did I state that ross was a powerhouse for research. But you made statements and I refuted them with facts. Perhaps the residencies at your instutuion just suck. Did you ever think of that? The hours one works as a resident depend on a multitude of things. You know all these people working so many hours and I know of some as well. I also know of residents who work as little as 36 hours in a week. It all depends. So, yes, you are a bit ignorant when it comes to residencies. I coud give a fat rat's ass how many hours a Medicine resident works. I'm not one of them so it does not pertain to me. EM is a disipline that has no call, just shifts, so my hours will inherently be less than a medicine resident. The cush radiology residents that you refer to all have to do a pgy-1 year in something other than rads which means more hours. After that, as far as I know, based on the rads residents here, the most they pull is a week of night shifts. So, for one week they pull close to 100 hours (7p-7a) but I'm not too sure about the exact numbers. The rest of the month, it is 9-5 with possibly one weekend day shift. It all varies on the program. I know medicine residents who have call q7. otherwise they work 7-5. That isn't burtal, and it sure leaves time for other pursuits. I suggest one of these residencies to you so you can spend your spare time and perhaps meet a FMG/IMG. Not all of them are rocket scientists, but most are quite capable at what they are doing. But I guess that everyone at OU is Summa cum laude or something like that. Your step I pass rate must be 100% If it isn't then your school must have some people who slipped through the cracks as well, don't you think?
I don't intend to use this avenue to get into a pissing contest with some med stud who thinks that his/her sh-- don't stink. I apologize to those who use this site to gain information about things they care about. This thread is entitled Surgery or EM from a small carribean school. I am an EM resident from ross and therfore feel that I might be able to assist in ?'s from others who desire the same goals. Mike, you are a med stud from oklahoma. I hardly think that quelifies you for anything other than cow tiping, but I guess I could be wrong, after all I only went to Ross.
 
I'm not taking any sides here, but I don't think it's fair to bash foreign med schools...I just think, to each their own. If someone has to go the carribean route to get their MD, so be it. But, I'm sure in GENERAL, students in US med schools are more capable at being better doctors... they WERE the ones that were chosen for US schools, right?

Oh, just one more thing DRC, I think Mike went to undergrad in OK and goes to Harvard Med...Cambridge, not exactly a "cow-tipping" town...

------------------
 
Whoops...It could also be that he goes to Columbia Med...one or the other...I forgot!

biggrin.gif


------------------
 
Simseema,
Slingerlands?? What you doing up there? Albany Med? God bless.
DRC
P.S. I did undergrad at SUNY
 
DRC,
Actually, I'm from Slingerlands, and am in my last year of undergrad at SUNY-Binghamton. I applied to dental schools and waiting to hear from them...unfortunately, there are only two NY state dental schools (stonybrook and buffalo)...both which are great though...I applied to 15 schools, so in the meantime I'm just waiting and enjoying my last year of college...BTW, I like to read the interesting posts, that's why I replied to this one...Anyway, good luck to both of us
biggrin.gif


------------------
 
Hey detroitrockcity, you said you were an EM resident, what hospital do you work at?
 
hahaha even as you attempt to take the moral high ground and end this discussion with a modicrum of dignity...you leave with a cheap shot that really has little relevence to the discussion at hand

If you really want to push the immature trash talk (ie referring to me as a redneck) issue further believe me I'm sure I can take a metal baseball bat to your ego much much more than you could mine

The gist of my argument is thus......yes a few ross grads get through and become surgeons.....it is my belief and the belief of the ACGME (stated at numerous points their literature) that the practice of taking large number of FMG's particularly ones from the carribean....is one that has potentially deleterious effects for the medical profession and thus should be more strictly regulated....

Thus you have your opinion and I have mine....the nature of the beast is obvious tho......given a choice between a US school and a Carribean one, one would really have to be crazy to choose the carribean one if they later sought to become a surgeon in the united states....if you actually attempt to justify choosing a carribean medical school as a good career move then to be honest I think we need to get you some serious debriefing because your brainwashing is indeed profound
 
Mike,
I don't think I ever said that my education is or was superior. Hell, everyone knows that noone wanted to go to medical school in the carribean. The only thing that I ask is that you evaluate the FMG's not as a whole but on an individual basis. Sure, some are idiots, but I think that you should work with some before you pass judgement on the group as a whole.


Floyd,
I am at wayne state. Loving the program so far. Was not my first choice, but looking back, I think the only mistake i made was not ranking this program higher. Only negitive I can see is that I'm in detroit. Not the nicest place in the world to live, but the education is excellent.
DRC

 
To MikeS 78:

Just curious- whats is your take on osteopathic medical schools? For years they took the brunt of criticism by allopathic medicine. It seems that they have since been accepted by the "superior american allopathic forces" and that the ever-so-judgemental finger of the likes of you has been turned to FMGs.

There are good and bad in all groups. The interesting thing is that the ones who mouth off their judgemental, condescending opinions, are usually the ones that are considered inferior, without even realizing it. So, even if you attend an IVY league program, you are probably the one that got in, that they regret got in; not because of your self-proclaimed superior intelligence, but because of your arrogance and insensitivity. Unfortunatley for your arguement, there is no evidence to suggest that standardized test scores, academic performance and even IQ indicates success in a given field, including medicine. However, insensitivity and arrogance have long been held as detrimental attributes for a physician to have.

As an osteopathic medical student I have rotated with students from Weill Medical College of Cornell, Harvard University, New York Medical College, Ross Univeristy and St. George. There have been good and bad among the bunch; what criteria is used to categorize good vs bad? Attitude. Who went the extra mile, who stayed around for the extra lectures, who didn't run out post call. They were the ones who inevitably not only impressed people but learned.

For the Doctor who pisted who is an EM resident, I would tell your students where you went to school; kinda teach them by example. The main reason the AOA has repeatedly refused to change the medical degree from DO to MD is for just that reason; to maintain distinction while proving equality.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Next unread thread

Similar threads

K
Surgery rotation
Replies
4
Views
3K
FutureInternist
FutureInternist
I
DO applying to EM sub-I/auditions questions
Replies
3
Views
2K
Clerkships
C
T
Surgery shelf : Anki to retain Divergillio?
Replies
0
Views
3K
taeyeonlover
T
A
EM California Away Rotations
Replies
0
Views
1K
ash1431
A
A
Stanford EM Away Rotation Final Exam
Replies
0
Views
2K
ash1431
A
Top