PhD/PsyD Survival in an unfinded clinical psych program

[DrSomedaySoon]

Hello all!

I was recently admitted to two doctoral programs in clinical psychology, both of which are unfunded. Between loans and scholarships I've got the tuition covered, but I'm wondering, how does anyone survive while in the program?? How do they pay for day to day expenses while remaining fully committed? I'm nearly finished with my masters degree in counseling psychology for licensure as an MFT (similar to LPCC in California), so I was hoping to continue working with clients while completing my doctorate. Is this totally unrealistic? What kind of funding opportunities/ jobs should I look for? Any input is helpful.

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[PsychBiker]

You'll hear all sorts of things from don't do a PsyD (i'm assuming) or if you are doing a PhD, to only go to a funded program. Both are reasonable options, but I resolved myself to being in debt a long time ago - so maybe try that?

In any case, to partially answer your question, it depends. If you are doing a doctorate program full-time, it is unlikely you will be able to handle having side clientele in addition to your coursework and your practicums - unless you can combine them somehow. If you don't even have your license though, you might be jumping the gun on this.

So, where were you accepted?

Lastly, if you are open to loans, Grad Plus loans will pay for your cost of living expenses. If you choose that route, you are looking at around 50k in debt each year (depending on your personal frugality).

 

[eowyne]

What do you hope to gain from doing your doctoral degree? If it's clinical practice more than research, it may take a LONG time to come out ahead financially compared to practicing with your MFT license. Unless you want to do neuropsych, there's not much psychologists can do in CA that MFTs cannot. If it's research, you're better off going to a funded PhD program.

 

[WisNeuro]

I guess you can always hope that you qualify for a loan forgiveness program. Not a hope I'd want to rely on though.

 

[bmedclinic]

OP,
Congrats on getting admitted to two programs. I'm sure you were a great candidate. It sounds like so far, you havent made any financial obligation to go to either of those programs. If I were in your shoes, I'd look at the numbers. Whats a reasonable (not ideal) job when you get out, can you get that job, and how much does that job pay? Then look at the programs you were admitted to. Cacluate their cost and whether they'll pay for themselves. If they wont, how worth it is it for you? I"m not done with school yet, but one has to wonder how worthwhile it is to be "Dr" especially when zero of your clients/friends/loved ones actually cares. Do it for you, do it for the job, do it for something else.. but if you do it, know why you're doing it. And know if its worth it. If you question whether its worth it, it'll be a heck of a lot harder to complete either program.

OTOH, I have a friend in a counseling education PhD program and he is working towards licensure as a LPC (I think) from his masters at a different program and his PhD program is getting him his licensure hours while in his PhD program. I suspect thats rather rare though... and he has academic ambitions so his reasoning for going to a phd program is rather clear.

For funzies, let me make up a hypothetical.
Let's say my masters lets me make 35k a year, and my doctorate lets me make 66k a year, but will take 4 additional years. Let's say total cost per year is 50k. That's 200k (4 x50). Now I'm earning 31k more per year, so you'd think that in 6 years I'd be set. Not so. Cost of living, practice expenses, interest from loans, etc, all factor in and what you thought was 200k is likely closer to 250 or 300k, and you're not easily paying it off in 9 years. Maybe my math is bad ( I did it in my head while typing) but the idea is to get you thinking about the actual costs. That's without considering that you might take an extra year, not match, or not immediately get a 66k job.

 

[bmedclinic]

What do you hope to gain from doing your doctoral degree? If it's clinical practice more than research, it may take a LONG time to come out ahead financially compared to practicing with your MFT license. Unless you want to do neuropsych, there's not much psychologists can do in CA that MFTs cannot. If it's research, you're better off going to a funded PhD program.

I dont/wont live in california, but this struck me as odd. Are MFT's allowed to do psychological assessment in CA? Do they get adequate training for that? Most MFTs I know give me blank looks when I talk about assessment.

 

[WisNeuro]

I dont/wont live in california, but this struck me as odd. Are MFT's allowed to do psychological assessment in CA? Do they get adequate training for that? Most MFTs I know give me blank looks when I talk about assessment.

I think the operative phrase was "unless, you want to do neuropsych."

 

[DrSomedaySoon]

I dont/wont live in california, but this struck me as odd. Are MFT's allowed to do psychological assessment in CA? Do they get adequate training for that? Most MFTs I know give me blank looks when I talk about assessment.

No, MFT's aren't trained in assessment at all, that's one of the many reasons why I'll be pursuing a doctorate.

 

[WisNeuro]

No, MFT's aren't trained in assessment at all, that's one of the many reasons why I'll be pursuing a doctorate.

If you're talking about npsych assessment, you really can't do that without becoming a neuropsychologist. Well, you can, but in some states not for long. In some states you can only bill for assessment codes if you are boarded in npsych.

 

[eowyne]

If you're talking about npsych assessment, you really can't do that without becoming a neuropsychologist. Well, you can, but in some states not for long. In some states you can only bill for assessment codes if you are boarded in npsych.

Here, both psychologists and LCSWs can bill for assessment, at least in community mental health. Possibly MFTs too, though I'm not sure. It's not linked to neuropsych specialty - unless there is another code for that. I think we're confusing terms. Here, LCSWs, MFTs and probably also LPCCs can do intakes, clinical interview assessment (not testing), and assign diagnoses. This can be coded as assessment. Psychologists can do some testing and comprehensive evals. Neuropsychologists are most qualified to do neuropsych testing, but I'm not sure if there are different codes. My point was that if DrSomedaySoon just wants to do intakes and clinical interview assessment, MFTs/LPCCs can do that. If (s)he wants to do testing/comprehensive reports then (s)he would need to do a doctoral degree. Obviously there are issues with appropriate scope of practice, and the ways in which that is routinely violated are appalling.

 

[WisNeuro]

Here, both psychologists and LCSWs can bill for assessment, at least in community mental health. Possibly MFTs too, though I'm not sure. It's not linked to neuropsych specialty - unless there is another code for that. I think we're confusing terms. Here, LCSWs, MFTs and probably also LPCCs can do intakes, clinical interview assessment (not testing), and assign diagnoses. This can be coded as assessment. Psychologists can do some testing and comprehensive evals. Neuropsychologists are most qualified to do neuropsych testing, but I'm not sure if there are different codes. My point was that if DrSomedaySoon just wants to do intakes and clinical interview assessment, MFTs/LPCCs can do that. If (s)he wants to do testing/comprehensive reports then (s)he would need to do a doctoral degree. Obviously there are issues with appropriate scope of practice, and the ways in which that is routinely violated are appalling.

Oh, I know that in some jurisdictions, it is looser. But, for example in Minnesota I believe, assessment codes are restricted according to boarding in specific specialties. And, the neuropsych orgs are pushing to expand that to other states and crack down on unqualified practitioners doing npsych assessments. So, I see that harder to do going forward.

 

[bmedclinic]

Here, both psychologists and LCSWs can bill for assessment, at least in community mental health. Possibly MFTs too, though I'm not sure. It's not linked to neuropsych specialty - unless there is another code for that. I think we're confusing terms. Here, LCSWs, MFTs and probably also LPCCs can do intakes, clinical interview assessment (not testing), and assign diagnoses. This can be coded as assessment. Psychologists can do some testing and comprehensive evals. Neuropsychologists are most qualified to do neuropsych testing, but I'm not sure if there are different codes. My point was that if DrSomedaySoon just wants to do intakes and clinical interview assessment, MFTs/LPCCs can do that. If (s)he wants to do testing/comprehensive reports then (s)he would need to do a doctoral degree. Obviously there are issues with appropriate scope of practice, and the ways in which that is routinely violated are appalling.

Right. Different terminology. What you're calling testing, I call assessment. Either way, I thought from the original post that masters level providers were doing comprehensive evals, and I thought "WTF?". So, my bad on not being specific and raising a question that likely wasnt necessary. It's mostly a pet peeve of mine when people who are not trained do do psychological assessments do them.

 

[JeyRo]

My input is pretty simple - don't attend those programs. Another regular poster here likes to advise people to operate as if unfunded programs don't exist. I think that's a smart idea.