Suturing clinic worth it in undergrad?

[meowsatmoon]

Hi all, I have the option to attend a basic suturing clinic run by medical students. I'm an undergrad and about to apply to medical school, and I'm a little lacking with hands on experience. Is this type of opportunity worth anything, or is it a waste of my time/money? Would it look good on applications? Thanks.

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[Doctor Strange]

Nah. It's pretty useless for med apps.

 

[dbeast]

It might be fun, but so is playing XBOX or going to the beach.

 

[Doctor Bob]

Is this type of opportunity worth anything, or is it a waste of my time/money?

Might be fun. That's about it.

Would it look good on applications?

It's worthless on applications

 

[mishaS]

I'd do it. As everyone has said, it is USELESS on med applications (you'd look ridiculous if you put it on), but you'll get a chance to bug some med students on their experiences, maybe get some advice for interviews in the particular school, and maybe have something to talk about at interviews (again, not something to show off because it isn't special, but you could work it in as an interest). Plus, come third year, you'll have a little muscle memory developed hopefully, and will able to catch on more quickly.

 

[pietachok]

Is this type of opportunity worth anything, or is it a waste of my time/money?

Money? They're charging money for you to go suture pigs' feet or something? That feels wrong.
I can't imagine it would be particularly compelling on an application, but you can do it if it's fun for you.

 

[armybound]

How much are they charging?

I don't think it would be worth it. Grab some string and practice tying knots. Don't worry about suturing, especially if you have to pay.

 

[Law2Doc]

First, don't pay money for something every resident will show you for free once you are on a surgical rotation. Second, it will be years into med school before you actually get to suture anything, so learning it now isn't much value. Third, there's something off-putting and a bit too Gung ho about an undergrad who so wants to play a doctor that they are learning to suture well before med school -- don't be that guy/gal. Fourth, most med students have barely learned to suture so you are more likely going to pick up bad habits. Better to learn from a senior resident, fellow etc with a few years of actual experience, like they likely did. You aren't exactly learning from a master here.Finally, don't put it in an application. If you are looking for med students to dialogue with, that's fine, but otherwise it's not a good use of your time IMHO.

 

[NickNaylor]

Wow, they charge you money to come learn a basic skill you could easily learn on YouTube? I wish I came up with that idea.


Don't do it if you have to pay. That's a racket.


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[deleted407021]

Some people practice on oranges. You can buy suture materials at some pharmacies. If you want to ask med students some stuff, here you are. You could also attend a tour at a school.

 

[ThisCouldBeYou]

You might be able to take a class where you can learn how to give shots,

………. or you could your friend, a diabetic who was about to toss that needle, if you could use it first to practice on an orange. (Novices pull back and the medicine doesn't go in.)

Actually, the suturing class might be kinda interesting, but it's not necessary. And for sure don't do it if you have to pay something.

 

[caffeinemia]

best served as a prank. Tie your roommie's shoe laces together in square knots, air knots, I don't care knots.

 

[mehc012]

Some people practice on oranges. You can buy suture materials at some pharmacies. If you want to ask med students some stuff, here you are. You could also attend a tour at a school.

I found a giant pack of almost-expired suture online for like $5 (including crappy needle driver), which I keep around the house for things like making my butterflied pork tenderloin stay all round and juicy without oozing the stuffing.

 

[mehc012]

You might be able to take a class where you can learn how to give shots,

………. or you could your friend, a diabetic who was about to toss that needle, if you could use it first to practice on an orange. (Novices pull back and the medicine doesn't go in.)

Actually, the suturing class might be kinda interesting, but it's not necessary. And for sure don't do it if you have to pay something.

Somehow the idea of taking a used needle from my friend and dicking around with it just isn't high on my to-do list. I don't even think it's the infection risk...used sharps = bad is just too firmly ingrained on my brain.

 

[Lucca]

No lol go do something fun.

 

[mmmcdowe]

Yeah don't pay, plenty of people are happy to teach for free and you'll have plenty of chances later on.

 

[Derpz]

OP - you on The Farm? Thought the suturing clinic was free

Hi all, I have the option to attend a basic suturing clinic run by medical students. I'm an undergrad and about to apply to medical school, and I'm a little lacking with hands on experience. Is this type of opportunity worth anything, or is it a waste of my time/money? Would it look good on applications? Thanks.

 

[caffeinemia]

OP - you on The Farm? Thought the suturing clinic was free

LOL TAKE OFF THAT RED SHIRT !

 

[wanderer]

Learn to sew instead. It's practical and gives you a chance to work with your hands.

 

[Psai]

lol don't bother
even if you learn how to do it, you'll forget by the time you have to do it

 

[mehc012]

Learn to sew instead. It's practical and gives you a chance to work with your hands.

You don't really have to learn to sew...it's something you just DO when it comes up.

 

[Aerus]

Worthless on apps? You might even make the adcoms laugh (in the bad way).

 

[wanderer]

You don't really have to learn to sew...it's something you just DO when it comes up.

It is definitely an acquired skill. There are also activities similar to sewing that people do as hobbies (crochet, knitting). I guess I meant to say learn one of these things which many find to be fun. They also build fine motor skills without potentially making you look like a tool (in the case of a suturing workshop)

 

[mehc012]

I think it's a little harsh to say that a suturing workshop makes you look like a tool. It's a chance to mess around with something that interests you, just for fun...people do this ALL THE TIME. I'm not gonna make it to be an astronaut, but I would totally do a "learn to xyz like an astronaut" activity anyway because it's fun to try random things beyond your ken.
I bought some near-expired suture and learned some of the basics through YouTube videos, because it was entertaining to me. Will it help me when I get there? Nope. Will it get me in? It's not like I'd even consider mentioning it to adcoms. Has it been useful to have around? Turns out, yeah...even if I'm butchering it (I am) it's still a better setup for some things. Am I a pretentious tool for doing it? I honestly can't see how. It has affected nobody but me, and I enjoyed it.
Why would it be a tool move for OP to try out something fun they're interested in?

 

[487806]

I think it's a little harsh to say that a suturing workshop makes you look like a tool. It's a chance to mess around with something that interests you, just for fun...people do this ALL THE TIME. I'm not gonna make it to be an astronaut, but I would totally do a "learn to xyz like an astronaut" activity anyway because it's fun to try random things beyond your ken.
I bought some near-expired suture and learned some of the basics through YouTube videos, because it was entertaining to me. Will it help me when I get there? Nope. Will it get me in? It's not like I'd even consider mentioning it to adcoms. Has it been useful to have around? Turns out, yeah...even if I'm butchering it (I am) it's still a better setup for some things. Am I a pretentious tool for doing it? I honestly can't see how. It has affected nobody but me, and I enjoyed it.
Why would it be a tool move for OP to try out something fun they're interested in?

Because suturing as a premed when you'll inevitably learn these techniques in the future as a med student if you get in makes you look like a joke. Even more so when you'll be willing to waste money on that when you can watch it online. It's fine to have such interests, but this is just the case of being "happily ignorant" in having the hands-on approach.

OP, listing this on your app will cause adcoms to think you're a joke. Use your time for something productive.

Worthless on apps? You might even make the adcoms laugh (in the bad way).

Right before the app gets thrown in the trash

 

[mehc012]

Because suturing as a premed when you'll inevitably learn these techniques in the future as a med student if you get in makes you look like a joke. Even more so when you'll be willing to waste money on that when you can watch it online. It's fine to have such interests, but this is just the case of being "happily ignorant" in having the hands-on approach.

OP, listing this on your app will cause adcoms to think you're a joke. Use your time for something productive.



Right before the app gets thrown in the trash

Listing it on the app is silly and presumptuous. But are you seriously judging someone for trying something they find enjoyable and which gives them a bit of excited anticipation for their future, even if it is useless for them right now? I see it as no different than trolling the Med student forums on here trying to get an idea of where you'll be in several years.

 

[dbeast]

First, don't pay money for something every resident will show you for free once you are on a surgical rotation. Second, it will be years into med school before you actually get to suture anything, so learning it now isn't much value. Third, there's something off-putting and a bit too Gung ho about an undergrad who so wants to play a doctor that they are learning to suture well before med school -- don't be that guy/gal. Fourth, most med students have barely learned to suture so you are more likely going to pick up bad habits. Better to learn from a senior resident, fellow etc with a few years of actual experience, like they likely did. You aren't exactly learning from a master here.Finally, don't put it in an application. If you are looking for med students to dialogue with, that's fine, but otherwise it's not a good use of your time IMHO.

Technically, we are paying for that.

 

[487806]

Listing it on the app is silly and presumptuous. But are you seriously judging someone for trying something they find enjoyable and which gives them a bit of excited anticipation for their future, even if it is useless for them right now? I see it as no different than trolling the Med student forums on here trying to get an idea of where you'll be in several years.

Not at all. My post was directly referring to marking it as an activity. And surely there are better things to do rather than learning a technique that'll be forgotten until few years down the road. This is like saying you're prestudying anatomy before med school starts only to realize that you wasted the summer.

 

[Mr Roboto]

This actually sounds like fun. If it were only a few bucks to cover the cost of fruit and suturing materials then I'd probably do it. Definitely not something to put on an application, though, and don't expect it to be helpful to you in the future as a student.

 

[mehc012]

Not at all. My post was directly referring to marking it as an activity. And surely there are better things to do rather than learning a technique that'll be forgotten until few years down the road. This is like saying you're prestudying anatomy before med school starts only to realize that you wasted the summer.

Sorry if that's all you were referring to...it was not at all clear to me from your post.
And I see nothing wrong with prestudying anatomy, as long as you enjoy it. How is it a waste if it gets you excited and you enjoy yourself? If I watched an entire season of Battlestar, destroyed COD, or read 85 books is that a waste?

 

[Served]

Even if you attend the suturing clinic, I wouldn't put on your CV; you can do it for fun if you want...just for your own interest. I mean, if I were a medical school admissions officer, I would scoff at a premed who writes such a thing on his resume. Here's a premed who hasn't even studied the basics of human physiology in medical school, and is already thinking of learning surgical procedures?

 

[487806]

Sorry if that's all you were referring to...it was not at all clear to me from your post.
And I see nothing wrong with prestudying anatomy, as long as you enjoy it. How is it a waste if it gets you excited and you enjoy yourself? If I watched an entire season of Battlestar, destroyed COD, or read 85 books is that a waste?

No, that's productive. If you're inevitably going to encounter it (study in depth etc.) in the future if you do get into med school, prestudying anatomy (or any basic science subjects, learning clinical techniques etc.) is a waste of time since the time you spent trying to learn is crushed by the way it's actually presented to you. Of course, if you want to waste time with prestudying, be my guest: your loss.

Note the important "if" clause. If OP is learning suturing but doesn't get into med school, it's certainly a waste of time, don't you think? Use that time for something that interests you besides medicine. That is what's important.

 

[mehc012]

No, that's productive. If you're inevitably going to encounter it (study in depth etc.) in the future if you do get into med school, prestudying anatomy (or any basic science subjects, learning clinical techniques etc.) is a waste of time since the time you spent trying to learn is crushed by the way it's actually presented to you. Of course, if you want to waste time with prestudying, be my guest: your loss.

Note the important "if" clause. If OP is learning suturing but doesn't get into med school, it's certainly a waste of time, don't you think? Use that time for something that interests you besides medicine. That is what's important.

No, I don't think it's a waste of time, whether or not they eventually get into med school. Nor do I think it's a waste to study something for fun. If you're not enjoying yourself, sure it's a waste of leisure time. But downtime is just that - downtime - and if you fill it with activities you enjoy, I don't see why any one of those is more a waste of time than another. Why is GTA more 'important' than practicing suturing, if neither is going to impart a useful skill?

 

[487806]

No, I don't think it's a waste of time, whether or not they eventually get into med school. Nor do I think it's a waste to study something for fun. If you're not enjoying yourself, sure it's a waste of leisure time. But downtime is just that - downtime - and if you fill it with activities you enjoy, I don't see why any one of those is more a waste of time than another. Why is GTA more 'important' than practicing suturing, if neither is going to impart a useful skill?

Again. If you're interested in something that'll be encountered later on and nullify your initial attempts of studying for "interest" (whatever that is), go ahead. That may be all fun and interesting at first but in the long run, it's simply a waste of time by looking back on time. Pretty sure any med student, resident etc. would agree with this. That's why it's a common motto: do something you enjoy besides medicine. Whether it's rock climbing, watching TV, playing cards, skydiving, etc. go on ahead and live life rather than being idealistically happy on the wonderful field of medicine.

 

[Law2Doc]

...I'm not gonna make it to be an astronaut, but I would totally do a "learn to xyz like an astronaut" activity anyway because it's fun to try random things beyond your ken.
I bought some near-expired suture and learned some of the basics through YouTube videos, because it was entertaining to me. Will it help me when I get there? Nope. Will it get me in? It's not like I'd even consider mentioning it to adcoms. Has it been useful to have around? Turns out, yeah...even if I'm butchering it (I am) it's still a better setup for some things. Am I a pretentious tool for doing it? I honestly can't see how. It has affected nobody but me, and I enjoyed ...

With respect to your astronaut example, it's very much like wanting to be an astronaut so badly, you go and do space camp for the summer. Maybe it's fun, but to everyone else you'll seem way too eager. Best to keep that your secret and not put it on an application.

I would caution you about trying to learn suturing, especially off you tube, but also from med students with limited experience. Bad habits are very very hard to unlearn, and so ideally you want to learn this from someone with a bit more experience (ideally an attending, but at least a resident who has done it for a While). This is something that you need to repeat precisely and has to become second nature to you, so there is a very real cost if you are self taught, repeat it many times as practice, and don't have the technique exactly perfect. Sutures that aren't perfect often don't hold. Dehiscence is bad for the patient and often relates to poor workmanship. If you have bad technique that often puts you way behind the person who never picked up a needle. So view with skepticism things that are being taught you by people who haven't done much more than you. The "see one, do one, teach one" mantra" doesn't really kick in until the resident level. Until then you are all "playing doctor" to variable degrees, and can set yourself back by learning things "wrong" the first time.

 

[mehc012]

@Law2Doc I chose the astronaut example precisely because space camp is a thing. Also, I never once said someone should put it on their app. I said that was a BAD idea, but that if they wanted to do it for fun, go have fun.

Honestly, you guys, get over yourselves. Somebody having fun 'playing doctor' is no better or worse than someone having fun reading SDN, or playing Halo, or watching Netflix. Doesn't it seem a little backwards to you that people should stop thinking about medicine...by limiting their leisure activities to things that the medical community approves of as 'useful' fun things?

 

[Law2Doc]

@Law2Doc I chose the astronaut example precisely because space camp is a thing. Also, I never once said someone should put it on their app. I said that was a BAD idea, but that if they wanted to do it for fun, go have fun.

Honestly, you guys, get over yourselves. Somebody having fun 'playing doctor' is no better or worse than someone having fun reading SDN, or playing Halo, or watching Netflix. Doesn't it seem a little backwards to you that people should stop thinking about medicine...by limiting their leisure activities to things that the medical community approves of as 'useful' fun things?

Most of us don't read SDN for the medicine aspects, rather it's an advice column for some, a distraction from medicine for others. And for some of us, it's less about keeping a hand in the doctor world outside of work and more a way of "paying it forward" for advice we got back when. I certainly wouldn't ever pay for it or put it above a good primetime TV show or other distractions. I think there's a huge step to go from playing Halo to going to space camp, and a similar huge step from reading SDN to paying med students to learn to suture. One is silly and effortless, the other is more volitional. I'm not saying any of this is bad, just that there's such a thing as being too Gung ho, at least in the circles you are trying to break into. Less is more sometimes.

 

[mehc012]

Most of us don't read SDN for the medicine aspects, rather it's an advice column for some, a distraction from medicine for others. And for some of us, it's less about keeping a hand in the doctor world outside of work and more a way of "paying it forward" for advice we got back when. I certainly wouldn't ever pay for it or put it above a good primetime TV show or other distractions. I think there's a huge step to go from playing Halo to going to space camp, and a similar huge step from reading SDN to paying med students to learn to suture. One is silly and effortless, the other is more volitional. I'm not saying any of this is bad, just that there's such a thing as being too Gung ho, at least in the circles you are trying to break into. Less is more sometimes.

At some point the discussion became less about paying to learn and more about even trying it out at all, which is what bothered me.
I was including SDN as pure entertainment.
Personally, I could not give a crap less what "the circles I am trying to break into" think about my 'me' activities. If they don't like them, I won't tell them - I usually avoid telling them I ride motorcycles, for example, I ABSOLUTELY hide my SDN involvement from everyone on the planet, ever, I don't advertise the fact that I bought a few sutures and an anatomy coloring book which I enjoy for fun (I like coloring, why not color this, if it's just as enjoyable?). That doesn't mean I shouldn't do them.
OP wants to try something out that they may enjoy and which doesn't hurt anyone. Now, they'd be silly to pay for it, or to put it on an app, but other than that I see no issue. I see HUGE issues with people telling them that that's not an ideal leisure activity, they should try something 'better'.

 

[Law2Doc]

At some point the discussion became less about paying to learn and more about even trying it out at all, which is what bothered me.
I was including SDN as pure entertainment.
Personally, I could not give a crap less what "the circles I am trying to break into" think about my 'me' activities. If they don't like them, I won't tell them - I usually avoid telling them I ride motorcycles, for example, I ABSOLUTELY hide my SDN involvement from everyone on the planet, ever, I don't advertise the fact that I bought a few sutures and an anatomy coloring book which I enjoy for fun (I like coloring, why not color this, if it's just as enjoyable?). That doesn't mean I shouldn't do them.
OP wants to try something out that they may enjoy and which doesn't hurt anyone. Now, they'd be silly to pay for it, or to put it on an app, but other than that I see no issue. I see HUGE issues with people telling them that that's not an ideal leisure activity, they should try something 'better'.

Again with suturing, because you tend to practice by repetition, you truly can learn it "wrong" and create very bad habits that are much harder to break than never having tried it before. If you learn to tie a certain way, and inevitably practice your new skill for hours in your spare time, creating long strands of knots, then when your mind wanders (as it will when you start pulling long hours with no sleep) you will inevitably revert back to the poor form. So it's just almost better to have no form until someone who is actually a veteran shows you how.

 

[mehc012]

Again with suturing, because you tend to practice by repetition, you truly can learn it "wrong" and create very bad habits that are much harder to break than never having tried it before. If you learn to tie a certain way, and inevitably practice your new skill for hours in your spare time, creating long strands of knots, then when your mind wanders (as it will when you start pulling long hours with no sleep) you will inevitably revert back to the poor form. So it's just almost better to have no form until someone who is actually a veteran shows you how.

This is the only non-insulting argument I've heard thus far, and I'm sorry I ignored it earlier...honestly, I think the odds of someone practicing for hours in their spare time to be 'highly unlikely' rather than 'inevitable' as you put it, which is why I did not address your point the first time. Anything short of the endless repetition required for muscle memory will pretty much just leave you with "I know what the pieces are called and have a general idea of the process" rather than any specific muscle skills, good or bad. A suturing clinic by itself is certainly not going to impart muscle memory.

The more frequent point made in this thread, however, which is based on "you are a tool if you do things that excite you in your spare time, because I think that these activities are better for your spare time", is utterly scorn-worthy.

 

[PicardAndRoll]

Put in a blunt, but intentionally sincere way: I cannot see anyone caring on an application about a suture clinic. It doesn't demonstrate any unique skill, personable traits, etc.

We had a suture clinic on campus, and it was just a way of the pre-med clubs to raise some money and make themselves look more personable and caring for the pre-med members. Learning how to stitch some fruit or some pig skin isn't going to make you a stronger pre-med applicant. My mom loves to knit and stitch, and she probably could out-do a lot of the people there. She has an English degree and barely knows anything about medicine. It isn't a potent skill.

That hour or two spent + money would honestly be better spent either volunteering, or buying yourself a nice meal and reading some MCAT verbal passages. The latter, while extremely minor, would honestly have a more significant effect on your application than poking some fruit with a needle.

 

[Law2Doc]

?..honestly, I think the odds of someone practicing for hours in their spare time to be 'highly unlikely' rather than 'inevitable' as you put it...

If you find it highly unlikely, you obviously have not seen some of the long strands of knots many med schools have dangling off their backpacks.

 

[mehc012]

If you find it highly unlikely, you obviously avert seen some of te long strands of knots many med schools have dangling off their backpacks.

Haha, no, I just find it unlikely that someone just taking the class for fun in UG will demonstrate that level of persistence.

 

[Law2Doc]

Haha, no, I just find it unlikely that someone just taking the class for fun in UG will demonstrate that level of persistence.

If you are that Gung ho, you will go all in.

 

[PicardAndRoll]

If you are that Gung ho, you will go all in.

But how Gung ho are you to report your QuizUp app level in the "medicine" category?

 

[mehc012]

If you are that Gung ho, you will go all in.

I'm an odd one, then...grabbed some suture stuff cuz it was interesting, watched a few videos, and kept it around so I could keep my stuffed pork tenderloins nicely closed. I don't go crazy on it, though, cuz it seemed pointless when I didn't know what I was doing. Enjoyed the process, though, and I know more about the concept than I did when I started. Couldn't do what is needed, but I could tell you what is important and why.
I don't consider trying it out to be 'gung ho'. It's just 'curious'.
Practicing for hours is a bit gung ho.

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

Charging money? WTF.

Both my med school and the medical center I'm at residency put on these clinics for undergrads. Usually combined with some free food. It's basically recruitment for the medical school. I can't imagine why someone would charge for it.

If it were free I'd say do it because it's usually pretty laid back and fun and you'll interact with some med students and/or residents whom you can ask questions about medical life.

 

[bakedbeans18]

Useless. If you are part or an organization (i.e., president, secretary) at your school that organized this, that would be a different story altogether.

 

[ventulus18]

Finish suturing course. Turn on webcam. Tear latex glove. Suture it up with 8-0 prolene. Fill glove with water, proving water-tightness. Post to youtube. Include youtube link as a 1 liner on your AMCAS work and activities.